1330: "Kola Borehole"

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1330: "Kola Borehole"

Postby bachaddict » Fri Feb 14, 2014 5:24 am UTC

Image

Title text: "Tonight's top story: Lucifer, the Prince of Darkness, died in his home this morning at the age of [unintelligible rune]. Due to the large number of sharks inhabiting his former kingdom, no body could be recovered."

Would hell freeze over the next winter?
slinches wrote:Also, the OTC isn't a disease. In fact, it's the cure. As we all know, Time heals all wounds.

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Re: 1330: "Kola Borehole"

Postby rhomboidal » Fri Feb 14, 2014 5:26 am UTC

Hell is just Lucifer's winter home. He also has a lovely summer place in Martha's Vineyard. Got a wicked price on it.

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Re: 1330: "Kola Borehole"

Postby Eebster the Great » Fri Feb 14, 2014 5:28 am UTC

rhomboidal wrote:Hell is just Lucifer's winter home. He also has a lovely summer place in Martha's Vineyard. Got a wicked price on it.

You mean a wicked good price.

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Re: 1330: "Kola Borehole"

Postby Djehutynakht » Fri Feb 14, 2014 5:30 am UTC

I could see Lucifer living on Martha's Vineyard from time to time.

Could Hell still be hell even if it was flooded?


Now that it's a shark sanctuary, I blame it on http://xkcd.com/1326/

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Re: 1330: "Kola Borehole"

Postby Faraday's Cage » Fri Feb 14, 2014 5:31 am UTC

The Kola borehole (69.396219, 30.608667) is at 135 m (450 ft) elevation above sea level. I don't think a canal is going to work.

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Re: 1330: "Kola Borehole"

Postby Djehutynakht » Fri Feb 14, 2014 5:48 am UTC

Faraday's Cage wrote:The Kola borehole (69.396219, 30.608667) is at 135 m (450 ft) elevation above sea level. I don't think a canal is going to work.


We must dig.

Perhaps a connecting tunnel from the sea to the borehole (which, if it's dug deep enough to find hell, I'm assuming went deeper than 135 m at the time).

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Re: 1330: "Kola Borehole"

Postby keithl » Fri Feb 14, 2014 5:55 am UTC

Why not dig a canal from the Kola Borehole to the ocean?

The borehole is located at 69.3962N, 30.6067E (ruins are quite visible on Google satellite view), a few kilometers inland (and presumably uphill from) the town of Zapolyarny at 150m altitude above sea level. The borehole is about 30 km from the ocean inlet at Pechenga. That would be one "hell" of a canal digging project.

For comparison, the Culebra Cut of the Panama Canal was about 50 meters deep and 15 km long.

I think they closed the borehole because too many refugees wanted to escape the Soviet Union to a more pleasant place.

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Re: 1330: "Kola Borehole"

Postby bitwiseshiftleft » Fri Feb 14, 2014 5:59 am UTC

This is a terrible plan. Demons can swim through both water and lava, and giving them access to the ocean would be disastrous.

Instead, you need to vitrify Hell, or at least have a collapsible tunnel to reseal it.

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Re: 1330: "Kola Borehole"

Postby Eutychus » Fri Feb 14, 2014 6:08 am UTC

bachaddict wrote:Title text: "Tonight's top story: Lucifer, the Prince of Darkness, died in his home this morning at the age of [unintelligible rune]. Due to the large number of sharks inhabiting his former kingdom, no body could be recovered."
Randall needs to revise his theology. The Bible describes Hell as a place of punishment for the devil, not somewhere he rules over.
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Re: 1330: "Kola Borehole"

Postby Eebster the Great » Fri Feb 14, 2014 6:16 am UTC

Eutychus wrote:Randall needs to revise his theology.

To be fair to Randall, I don't think this is his theology.

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Re: 1330: "Kola Borehole"

Postby bachaddict » Fri Feb 14, 2014 6:17 am UTC

Eutychus wrote:Randall needs to revise his theology. The Bible describes Hell as a place of punishment for the devil, not somewhere he rules over.

It will be where satan lives/exists eventually though.
slinches wrote:Also, the OTC isn't a disease. In fact, it's the cure. As we all know, Time heals all wounds.

Thanks for the molpish wig ggh!
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Re: 1330: "Kola Borehole"

Postby firemage » Fri Feb 14, 2014 6:21 am UTC

That guy would make a very good Dwarf Fortress player :D

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Re: 1330: "Kola Borehole"

Postby jameslovecraft » Fri Feb 14, 2014 7:06 am UTC

I've been playing too much Minecraft*. My first thought was that, after tunneling to the ocean, they could actually go to hell after harvesting the obsidian. :roll:

*Yes, I am actually between 3-5 years late on everything.

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Re: 1330: "Kola Borehole"

Postby player_03 » Fri Feb 14, 2014 7:46 am UTC

bitwiseshiftleft wrote:This is a terrible plan. Demons can swim through both water and lava, and giving them access to the ocean would be disastrous.

And depending on Hell's size, this could drain enough of the oceans to release the Netherlands.

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Re: 1330: "Kola Borehole"

Postby sotanaht » Fri Feb 14, 2014 8:56 am UTC

firemage wrote:That guy would make a very good Dwarf Fortress player :D

No. This is a Dwarf Fortress player:
bitwiseshiftleft wrote:This is a terrible plan. Demons can swim through both water and lava, and giving them access to the ocean would be disastrous.

Instead, you need to vitrify Hell, or at least have a collapsible tunnel to reseal it.

Probably been there, done that.

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Re: 1330: "Kola Borehole"

Postby blademan9999 » Fri Feb 14, 2014 9:03 am UTC

keithl wrote:Why not dig a canal from the Kola Borehole to the ocean?

The borehole is located at 69.3962N, 30.6067E (ruins are quite visible on Google satellite view), a few kilometers inland (and presumably uphill from) the town of Zapolyarny at 150m altitude above sea level. The borehole is about 30 km from the ocean inlet at Pechenga. That would be one "hell" of a canal digging project.

For comparison, the Culebra Cut of the Panama Canal was about 50 meters deep and 15 km long.

I think they closed the borehole because too many refugees wanted to escape the Soviet Union to a more pleasant place.

But this wouldn't have to be as wide. And it could be an underground tunnel instead of a canal.
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Re: 1330: "Kola Borehole"

Postby JustDoug » Fri Feb 14, 2014 9:03 am UTC

Nah. Make use of the place. Water down, steam up, electricity out. It would make wonderful PR and allow you to charge a premium.

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Re: 1330: "Kola Borehole"

Postby C'tol » Fri Feb 14, 2014 9:11 am UTC

...Dig a canal connecting it to the ocean...

BHG must be playing Terraria a lot it seems...

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Re: 1330: "Kola Borehole"

Postby edzieba » Fri Feb 14, 2014 9:37 am UTC

Unless the forces of Hell have really upped their game, they don't stand much of a chance.

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Re: 1330: "Kola Borehole"

Postby Kit. » Fri Feb 14, 2014 10:07 am UTC

bitwiseshiftleft wrote:This is a terrible plan. Demons can swim through both water and lava, and giving them access to the ocean would be disastrous.

There's nothing wrong with demons. The idea is to destroy afterlife.

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Re: 1330: "Kola Borehole"

Postby Soeroah » Fri Feb 14, 2014 11:44 am UTC

Well that's spooky, I was thinking about that story just last night.

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Re: 1330: "Kola Borehole"

Postby popman » Fri Feb 14, 2014 12:11 pm UTC

How do we know this didn't happen before with a wider hole, and all of the steam released into the atmosphere caused a great flood over much of the earth?
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Re: 1330: "Kola Borehole"

Postby Quizatzhaderac » Fri Feb 14, 2014 12:22 pm UTC

Kit. wrote:
bitwiseshiftleft wrote:This is a terrible plan. Demons can swim through both water and lava, and giving them access to the ocean would be disastrous.

There's nothing wrong with demons. The idea is to destroy afterlife.
I'm not quite sure you understand the concept of "demon". Although this couldn't really be the DF hell, as you don't go there when you die, you just die when anyone goes there.

BHG's plan also assumes the ocean is vastly more extensive than hell, and that hell is of the fire only variety. Hellfire may very well be unquenchable. If we're dealing with a Dante's Inferno type hell you're making things worse more than you're making them better, especially for the virtuous pagans, who have a rather pleasant "hell".
The thing about recursion problems is that they tend to contain other recursion problems.

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Re: 1330: "Kola Borehole"

Postby cellocgw » Fri Feb 14, 2014 12:32 pm UTC

Eebster the Great wrote:
rhomboidal wrote:Hell is just Lucifer's winter home. He also has a lovely summer place in Martha's Vineyard. Got a wicked price on it.

You mean a wicked good price.


Actually, [I see what I did there] you mean a wicked pissa price.

BTW, did the Kola miners dig the Cape-to-MV tunnel just for Lucifer?
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Re: 1330: "Kola Borehole"

Postby cellocgw » Fri Feb 14, 2014 12:34 pm UTC

popman wrote:How do we know this didn't happen before with a wider hole, and all of the steam released into the atmosphere caused a great flood over much of the earth?


Like they (you know who I mean) say, "All this has happened before, and all this will happen again." :twisted:
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Re: 1330: "Kola Borehole"

Postby Kit. » Fri Feb 14, 2014 12:46 pm UTC

Quizatzhaderac wrote:
Kit. wrote:
bitwiseshiftleft wrote:This is a terrible plan. Demons can swim through both water and lava, and giving them access to the ocean would be disastrous.

There's nothing wrong with demons. The idea is to destroy afterlife.
I'm not quite sure you understand the concept of "demon".

Spirits that happened to be on the losing side of a religious war, and then "demonized" by the winning side, aren't they?

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Re: 1330: "Kola Borehole"

Postby Quizatzhaderac » Fri Feb 14, 2014 1:23 pm UTC

So you're suggesting that those commonly considered "Demons" fail to live up to the label assigned to them? and that "demonization" is basic while "demon" is derived? If you're talking about humans that seems reasonable. If you're talking about creatures of flame and twisted flesh sealed in an abyss at the dawn of time, I'd entertain the idea that their nature would lead an objective observer to demonize them.
Last edited by Quizatzhaderac on Fri Feb 14, 2014 2:28 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 1330: "Kola Borehole"

Postby Eebster the Great » Fri Feb 14, 2014 1:25 pm UTC

Why make something that is objectively demonic and deserving of eternal hellfire?

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Re: 1330: "Kola Borehole"

Postby sonar1313 » Fri Feb 14, 2014 1:47 pm UTC

Eebster the Great wrote:Why make something that is objectively demonic and deserving of eternal hellfire?

God never did. Lucifer was an angel at first. He and his minions became that way as punishment for rebelling against God.

On a side note, this is what I've always felt is the flaw in the theory of "God doesn't exist because if God is both all-benevolent and omnipotent he would wipe out evil." Nothing in the Bible ever claimed he was either. His plans are constantly getting screwed up.

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Re: 1330: "Kola Borehole"

Postby Flumble » Fri Feb 14, 2014 1:50 pm UTC

player_03 wrote:
bitwiseshiftleft wrote:This is a terrible plan. Demons can swim through both water and lava, and giving them access to the ocean would be disastrous.

And depending on Hell's size, this could drain enough of the oceans to release the Netherlands.

DO IT!

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Re: 1330: "Kola Borehole"

Postby Klear » Fri Feb 14, 2014 1:58 pm UTC

sonar1313 wrote:
Eebster the Great wrote:Why make something that is objectively demonic and deserving of eternal hellfire?

God never did. Lucifer was an angel at first. He and his minions became that way as punishment for rebelling against God.

On a side note, this is what I've always felt is the flaw in the theory of "God doesn't exist because if God is both all-benevolent and omnipotent he would wipe out evil." Nothing in the Bible ever claimed he was either. His plans are constantly getting screwed up.


Not to mention that the old testament God is often quite an asshole.

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Re: 1330: "Kola Borehole"

Postby DireKobold » Fri Feb 14, 2014 1:58 pm UTC

I guess what we really need to be asking is what is the Russian Orthodox view of Hell? Perhaps this is just their local copy of Hell.

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Re: 1330: "Kola Borehole"

Postby eran_rathan » Fri Feb 14, 2014 2:10 pm UTC

Quizatzhaderac wrote:So you're suggesting that those commonly considered "Demons" fail to live up to the label assigned to them? and that "demonization" is basic while "demon" is derived? If you're talking about humans that seems reasonable. If you're talking about creatures of flame and twisted flesh sealed in an abyss at the dawn of time, I'd entertain the idea that they're nature would lead an objective observer to demonize them.


You're going to hell for that.

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Re: 1330: "Kola Borehole"

Postby FrobozzWizard » Fri Feb 14, 2014 2:25 pm UTC

Lucifer, the Prince of Darkness, died in his home this morning at the age of unintelligible rune.


It was unintelligible, but then some scientific types just figured it out, discovered it was the funniest joke in the world, and died laughing.

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Re: 1330: "Kola Borehole"

Postby Introbulus » Fri Feb 14, 2014 2:38 pm UTC

The real problem with this plan is that Hell is a superhot place (except at the very bottom), so all the waters of the ocean would just immediately evaporate, and then Hell's Minions would dine on fried Calamari.

In other words, we're operating on Terraria physics here.
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Re: 1330: "Kola Borehole"

Postby Kit. » Fri Feb 14, 2014 2:42 pm UTC

Quizatzhaderac wrote:So you're suggesting that those commonly considered "Demons" fail to live up to the label assigned to them? and that "demonization" is basic while "demon" is derived? If you're talking about humans that seems reasonable. If you're talking about creatures of flame and twisted flesh sealed in an abyss at the dawn of time, I'd entertain the idea that they're nature would lead an objective observer to demonize them.

We know the histories of "demonization" of many "demons". Some of those histories are quite curious:

The supposition, regarding the existence of the dichotomy between ahuras/asuras and daevas/devas in Indo-Iranian times, was discussed at length by F.B.J. Kuiper.[5] The dichotomy is evident in the earliest texts of either culture, though neither the Rigveda's asuras nor the Gathas' daevas are 'demons'. However, sometimes the deities cooperate. Nevertheless, the demonisation of the asuras in post-Rigvedic India and the demonisation of the daevas in Zoroastrian Iran took place "so late that the associated terms cannot be considered a feature of Indo-Iranian religious dialectology".[6]

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Re: 1330: "Kola Borehole"

Postby Quizatzhaderac » Fri Feb 14, 2014 4:09 pm UTC

@eran_rathan: fixed. Second: it's a typo, chill-axe. Third: The original form of the sentence was "they're objectively demonic"

@Kit - One of the issues of the true Scotsman fallacy is that there's no efficient way to separate the idea case (the true Scotsman) from the mundane case (somebody of Scottish heritage/ culture/ residency). If Scots could exclude people who will commit senseless murders, they would. Since Scots can't do this the label "Scotsman" is insufficient to exclude a Scot as a candidate for murder.

However the converse is also fallacious. Because there are false Scots, doesn't necessarily preclude the existence of true Scotsmen.
This relates to demons because you have effectively argued that beings with the label "Demon" might not be true demons, that the acquisition of the label may have little/nothing to do with the characteristics of the demons themselves.

Now, a certainty of releasing demonstrue is not needed to make opening up physical hell a bad idea, just the possibility. Furthermore, given that we're dealing with concrete entities, they may have a portfolio of direct actions to be judged by, strengthening the correlation between reputation and fact.
The thing about recursion problems is that they tend to contain other recursion problems.

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Re: 1330: "Kola Borehole"

Postby PinkShinyRose » Fri Feb 14, 2014 4:48 pm UTC

Quizatzhaderac wrote:Now, a certainty of releasing demonstrue is not needed to make opening up physical hell a bad idea, just the possibility. Furthermore, given that we're dealing with concrete entities, they may have a portfolio of direct actions to be judged by, strengthening the correlation between reputation and fact.

Wait, is it likely that no demons escaped before the borehole was closed?

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Re: 1330: "Kola Borehole"

Postby RobFreundlich » Fri Feb 14, 2014 5:28 pm UTC

Eebster the Great wrote:
rhomboidal wrote:Hell is just Lucifer's winter home. He also has a lovely summer place in Martha's Vineyard. Got a wicked price on it.

You mean a wicked good ahsome price.


FTFY

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Re: 1330: "Kola Borehole"

Postby Quizatzhaderac » Fri Feb 14, 2014 5:37 pm UTC

PinkShinyRose wrote:Wait, is it likely that no demons escaped before the borehole was closed?
Given that none (of the flesh and acid variety) were encountered? I'd say it's likely. If demons had been observed, I suppose we should judge them based on our experiences.
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