1398: "Snake facts"

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Belial
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Re: 1398: "Snake facts"

Postby Belial » Tue Jul 29, 2014 6:31 pm UTC

That would be a neat trick considering the religion is only, like, 60 years old (you could maybe stretch it to 80 years if you count the post-Murray/Graves/Fraser, pre-Gardner "faffing about in the woods making shit up" years before anything got codified). And it took a while to spread from Britain to the US even then.
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Re: 1398: "Snake facts"

Postby Quizatzhaderac » Tue Jul 29, 2014 8:06 pm UTC

I could argue out there were fifteen times as many witch executions in your country as mine; but neither of our countries really existed at that point.
The thing about recursion problems is that they tend to contain other recursion problems.

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Re: 1398: "Snake facts"

Postby addams » Tue Jul 29, 2014 8:09 pm UTC

PinkShinyRose wrote:About the religion issue: didn't they persecute Wiccans all over the US a couple of centuries ago?

All over The Western World.
It was Nuts!!

More of that was going on in Europe than in the US.

If one person loses their life to such Stupidity,
Too many people have lost their lives to such Stupidity.

Is this an argument for or against Religion?

Well....Dorothy;
What kind of Witch are You?
A good Witch or a bad Witch?

What kind of Christian are You?
Being a Christian is like being a Witch.

Are you a good one or a bad one?
You don't believe in Witches or Christians??

Spoiler:
OK!
I'm with You!

When the dust settles, I will tell you they are Real.
It's a scary bedtime story.

EDIT:
I fixed the spelling.
I spelled Christian wrong.
Spell check turned it into something I know even less about.

Spell Check.
Just Musing about Spell Check and Spelling.

Spoiler:
I wonder if RoseMary would have called spell check, "The Devil in Disguise."
RoseMary had No Paticence with Poor Spellers.

She converted from Catholic to Jew.
I swear! It's so funny.

I had never heard of such a Thing.
What?? The Rules were Too Lax for You??

She had dedicated her life to the Written Word.
When a word was Misspelled in the Dictonary, RoseMary knew it.

An new Zen joke says,
"If a word were misspelled in the Dictionary;
How would you know?"


RoseMary did not think it was Funny.
She said, "I'd know."

Then she wanted to know Why I would not know.
Shoot..English is HARD. Even for English speakers.
Last edited by addams on Wed Jul 30, 2014 1:01 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

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Re: 1398: "Snake facts"

Postby PinkShinyRose » Tue Jul 29, 2014 8:12 pm UTC

Quizatzhaderac wrote:I could argue out there were fifteen times as many witch executions in your country as mine; but neither of our countries really existed at that point.

My point was that there were ridiculous persecutions in the US aside from the obvious genocides against various native peoples. Not that it was worse than some other place.
EDIT:
Belial wrote:That would be a neat trick considering the religion is only, like, 60 years old (you could maybe stretch it to 80 years if you count the post-Murray/Graves/Fraser, pre-Gardner "faffing about in the woods making shit up" years before anything got codified). And it took a while to spread from Britain to the US even then.

It was magic...

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Re: 1398: "Snake facts"

Postby Quizatzhaderac » Tue Jul 29, 2014 9:00 pm UTC

PinkShinyRose wrote:My point was that there were ridiculous persecutions in the US aside from the obvious genocides against various native peoples. Not that it was worse than some other place.
Sorry, my intended point wasn't USA > Netherlands, or even that terrible things didn't happen in America's past; my point was that it's as ridiculous to say that calling that the USA is as ridiculous as calling you a roman.

Some people on my land mass burned witches. Then they decided it was a bad idea. Then literally everyone died. Then the philosophical idea of America was created, including a rejection of certain terrible things from the past. Then a collection of colonies became sovereign states. Then almost everyone died. Then "American" became a cultural identity (the "US is" versus "the US are", "the EU countries" versus "the country, EU").

I'm guessing you were responding to CigarDoug? I'd agree with you that America's freedom of religion isn't very special amongst the developed world anymore. One of the things I'd guess CigarDoug is confused about is the relationship between de facto and de jure establishment of religion in different countries. In America, we have no de jure establishment and subtle de facto establishment. The UK, by comparison (only other nation I've lived in) has slightly stronger de facto establishment but has a de jure establishment as strong as Iran's. Saying you have a terrible system and actually having a good system is a quick way to be misjudged.
The thing about recursion problems is that they tend to contain other recursion problems.

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Re: 1398: "Snake facts"

Postby Flumble » Tue Jul 29, 2014 10:02 pm UTC

I do not think citing former atrocities of any country is relevant to the discussion at hand at this moment. It might be useful to support comparison of cultures and traditions of various countries, but that part of the discussion hasn't come along yet.
[edit] the above sentence itself seems not to be relevant anymore. [/edit]

gmalivuk wrote:Until we stop such absurdities as corporate welfare and bailouts and subsidies and tax cuts, you don't get to claim America has a strong devotion to the free market. Until we also are capable of taking care of our citizens, you don't get to claim this somehow makes us better than countries that have better healthcare.

Until we stop saying that corporations have freedom of religion over and against the freedom of their employees, you don't get to claim America is better in this respect than most other countries, either. Until private religious views stop being used in most states to restrict or withhold rights to LGBT people, you don't get to claim our freedom of religion is a good thing.

We are no longer unique or even unusual for having no state religion, now that a large majority of human beings live in countries without any official or constitutionally exceptional religion.

Indeed.

Even if all the issues are resolved,
It is in part a subjective judgement.

People that grow up in an enviroment with little suffering, gladly accept the local culture.
Why not also accept the little bad things that don't hurt you?

They will defend that culture; think it's better than others.
But others will think so, too.

We will see what the future brings.

Hopefully a better minimum.

Hope does need action to come true. We need to improve the world.
Bit by bit.

Addams, do you teach?

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Re: 1398: "Snake facts"

Postby addams » Wed Jul 30, 2014 1:11 am UTC

Do I teach?
No.

I do not Teach.
I was taught to Teach.

I don't practice.
I am unemployed.

Teaching might be So much fun.
All a person really needs is a little curiosity.

There is so much to know.
I have been told and in my own personal experience,
Teaching is a Wonderful Way to Learn.

At the end of the day, the students might not know anything;
But, Teacher does.

I wonder; Is there is anything I know, other people want to know?
..................................

............I can't think of a thing.
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

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Re: 1398: "Snake facts"

Postby Belial » Wed Jul 30, 2014 1:53 am UTC

Quizatzhaderac wrote:Some people on my land mass burned witches.


Hanged, actually. Assuming you're referring to Salem, the executed were mostly hanged, and never burned.

Never let it be said I don't know my witch trivia.
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Re: 1398: "Snake facts"

Postby addams » Wed Jul 30, 2014 2:11 am UTC

Belial wrote:
Quizatzhaderac wrote:Some people on my land mass burned witches.


Hanged, actually. Assuming you're referring to Salem, the executed were mostly hanged, and never burned.

Never let it be said I don't know my witch trivia.

ok. Do you know about the guy they smashed?
What the fuck is up with people?

No. I did not make that up.
I don't have that kind of an imagination.

http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/f ... eypage.htm
See? I didn't make it up.

(oh, fuck) The internet made it up.
We are going to believe the internet?

No! I knew, before the internet knew.
Spoiler:
Don't look at me.
I didn't tell it.

It is an old story.
To speak with Clarity about what happened in the Western World
during the late 1400's and the 1500's we must delve into Mob Psychology.
Freaky-Deeky stuff, Mob Psychology.

I don't mind reading and thinking about it.
Like reading and thinking about being launched into outer space.

It is an ok thing to consider.
It is Not an ok thing to do.

Mobs are Dangerous.
Of course, Mobs can be fun.

The running of The Bulls is a controlled Mob Scene.
The control comes from within the person.
The guys on HorseBack help.

Who has their finger on the trigger of The Mob?
Mobs have been used as weapons for long time.

The poor helpless Mob?
I have very little patience for Mobs.

There have been innocent persons inside Guilty Murderous Mobs.
Human beings are a complicated animal. Have you noticed?
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

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Re: 1398: "Snake facts"

Postby Izawwlgood » Wed Jul 30, 2014 2:18 am UTC

Belial wrote:
Quizatzhaderac wrote:Some people on my land mass burned witches.


Hanged, actually. Assuming you're referring to Salem, the executed were mostly hanged, and never burned.

... Huh... Why is that?
... with gigantic melancholies and gigantic mirth, to tread the jeweled thrones of the Earth under his sandalled feet.

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Re: 1398: "Snake facts"

Postby Belial » Wed Jul 30, 2014 2:30 am UTC

addams: disturbing. What a complete shitshow that whole episode was.

izawwlgood: I suspect it was just a matter of "witchcraft is a crime and this is how we execute criminals, we will stick to procedure because we are civilized people". I don't have any of the legal charters of that particular period for the massachusetts colony handy but I suspect they lay out what methods of execution may be used for what crimes. I know that in England around that time, burning at the stake was forbidden in any witch trial that did not also involve treason1, and I wouldn't be surprised if, as a british colony, they were bound by the same act.

1:Though I'm unclear on whether this means "oh, he did something treasonous and also is a witch" or just "he did something treasonous using witchcraft". Judging by the other witchcraft laws in england at the time (it wasn't illegal to be a witch, it was only illegal to do harm using witchcraft), I'd guess the latter. Don't cast spells on the king, kids
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Re: 1398: "Snake facts"

Postby ahammel » Wed Jul 30, 2014 4:34 am UTC

My name it is Jack Hall
And I've hexed both great and small
And my neck shall pay for all
When I die, when I die
And my neck shall pay for all
When I die
He/Him/His/Alex
God damn these electric sex pants!

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Re: 1398: "Snake facts"

Postby addams » Wed Jul 30, 2014 4:36 am UTC

OK. What are we discussing?
Who they were?
Or; Who we are?

We are the very same animal.
Our sense of Right and Wrong.....

We do not all get the same sense of Right and Wrong.
Like hair; Some are blessed with an abundance.
Others need a hat.

Internal and External Lotus of Control are interesting concepts to consider.
Don't we Know? Human beings must be Taught the fine points.

And; We will often believe the guy with the Shinny Pants Suit.
He would not have such a Shinny Pants Suit if he did not Earned it.

It is Human of Us!
We are Stupid for a smart animal.
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

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Re: 1398: "Snake facts"

Postby Quizatzhaderac » Wed Jul 30, 2014 3:34 pm UTC

addams wrote:OK. What are we discussing?
Snakes?

Did you know that in ancient Lemuria they used to feed witches to snakes? Modern Lemuria is very different: People are generally well educated scientifically and inclusive of those who are different. These changes started after the snakes died off.

In ancient Rand-Mcnally, they use to feed snakes to witches. This is still done ceremonially today.

Onboro's cousin Escher managed to not only eat her own tail, but pass it as well.
The thing about recursion problems is that they tend to contain other recursion problems.

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Re: 1398: "Snake facts"

Postby Copper Bezel » Wed Jul 30, 2014 4:48 pm UTC

I feel like your last one is dependent on the reader not knowing that snakes, like any tetrapod, possess a post-anal tail.

I want to say, like, "they're not worms or something," but of course, some worms would fare a whole lot better in the ouroboros situation.
So much depends upon a red wheel barrow (>= XXII) but it is not going to be installed.

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Re: 1398: "Snake facts"

Postby Quizatzhaderac » Wed Jul 30, 2014 5:14 pm UTC

I knew snakes had post anal tails; I didn't know all tetrapods had tails, or even that all tetrapod species had tails.

I meant to imply that Escher eventually passed the entirety of herself: tail first, anus second, mouth last. Whereas Ouroboro just swallowed himself, digested, and violated conservation of matter.
The thing about recursion problems is that they tend to contain other recursion problems.

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Re: 1398: "Snake facts"

Postby Copper Bezel » Wed Jul 30, 2014 9:58 pm UTC

Isn't it cray? It's a distinguishing character of tetrapods. Anything that doesn't have a post-anal tail lost it in development or later....
So much depends upon a red wheel barrow (>= XXII) but it is not going to be installed.

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Re: 1398: "Snake facts"

Postby addams » Thu Jul 31, 2014 3:23 am UTC

Quizatzhaderac wrote:
addams wrote:OK. What are we discussing?
Snakes?

Onboro's cousin Escher managed to not only eat her own tail, but pass it as well.

Escher?
This Escher?
https://www.google.com/search?q=Escher' ... B400%3B305

That was one Talented man.
I read a book about him.

It said, He worked very hard in Math and Architecture.
Then he ended up Doodling Snakes. (shrug)
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

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Re: 1398: "Snake facts"

Postby Quizatzhaderac » Thu Jul 31, 2014 2:32 pm UTC

Yes. Although I didn't specifically know he drew snakes. I was just thinking: who could draw a snake not only eat part of it's tail, but go ahead and pass itself through itself? Klein would do a better formula, but Escher would do a better picture.
The thing about recursion problems is that they tend to contain other recursion problems.

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Re: 1398: "Snake facts"

Postby addams » Thu Jul 31, 2014 2:57 pm UTC

Quizatzhaderac wrote:
Yes. Although I didn't specifically know he drew snakes. I was just thinking: who could draw a snake not only eat part of it's tail, but go ahead and pass itself through itself? Klein would do a better formula, but Escher would do a better picture.

Klein?
What Klein?

Robert Klein?

He might have something Bright and Funny to say about Snakes.
I did not know he did formula of the formal sort.
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

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Re: 1398: "Snake facts"

Postby orthogon » Thu Jul 31, 2014 2:58 pm UTC

xtifr wrote:... and orthogon merely sounds undecided.

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Re: 1398: "Snake facts"

Postby Quizatzhaderac » Thu Jul 31, 2014 3:20 pm UTC

addams wrote:Klein?
What Klein?
Felix Klein, inventor of the Klein bottle.
The thing about recursion problems is that they tend to contain other recursion problems.

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Re: 1398: "Snake facts"

Postby Copper Bezel » Thu Jul 31, 2014 6:00 pm UTC

Oh, pass through. I didn't get what you were imagining until the Klein reference.
So much depends upon a red wheel barrow (>= XXII) but it is not going to be installed.

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Re: 1398: "Snake facts"

Postby Quizatzhaderac » Fri Aug 01, 2014 1:58 pm UTC

"pass", while associated to a body in a vague way, generally is a polite way to say "pass entirely out of the body through the anus or urethra".

Phact: The Egyptian crypt snake can lie dormant for centuries without food or water and only bites people wearing hats.
The thing about recursion problems is that they tend to contain other recursion problems.

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Re: 1398: "Snake facts"

Postby addams » Fri Aug 15, 2014 11:39 pm UTC

Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.


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