1446: "Landing"

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Re: 1446: "Landing"

Postby Quercus » Mon Nov 17, 2014 5:44 pm UTC

geekguyandy wrote:
speising wrote:why didn't they put an RTG into the lander? that would have provided energy for years.


They addressed this in one of the press briefings. They said it was a political hurdle they could not cross.


Urgh, if it was an engineering problem I'd be okay with it, but politics, blargh!

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Re: 1446: "Landing"

Postby ucim » Mon Nov 17, 2014 6:21 pm UTC

Girl-With-A-Math-Fetish wrote:Philae seems so much more like a girl xD I've been calling him a her all this time...
It's the "ae" ending in the name. Makes it sound feminine, whatever the actual origins are. I suppose the obelisk would be considered male, so it's counterpart should be considered female.
(I guess that makes it a chick Philae)

But ni ni ni chupacabra....

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Re: 1446: "Landing"

Postby Seti » Mon Nov 17, 2014 7:00 pm UTC

azule wrote:Nice story, Seti. It still ended a bit sad, though. :P

Thanks! Yeah, I know. Somehow I couldn't help it. I started my draft with the famous 'Blade Runner' quote because I thought it would be funny if they would talk about things like the 'Tannhauser gate' and so forth, but then realized that these are Rutger Hauer's dying words in that movie. So I had to alter the second part of his quote, and then it almost automatically (or subconsciously, since I'm not an AI ... I swear, I passed the Voigt-Kampff test twice :wink:) predetermined the last sentence to end the story on a bittersweet note. It just seemed fitting to have Rosetta be aware of the possibility of Philae not waking up again, but without mentioning it to him. Well, this sounds even sadder when I'm trying to explain it.

But I keep my fingers crossed that two months from now I can write a sequel about Philae waking up.

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Seti wrote:himself (or herself - who knows?)

I like to stick with the ESA's description of Rosetta and Philae as sister and brother, respectively.

Quercus wrote:
Girl-With-A-Math-Fetish wrote:Philae seems so much more like a girl xD I've been calling him a her all this time...

Me too - I still have a touch of the old superstition that all ships are female, so I just defaulted to that.

That's interesting. In my first language, German, the use of gender-specific articles doesn't leave much room for interpretation. We say "die Sonde" (the probe) which is female, and "der Lander" (the lander) which is male. Although, I should add that "Lander" is only a loanword we adopted, I suppose because the English "to land" and the German translation "landen" sound quite similar and the suffix -er is really common for male nouns in our language.

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Re: 1446: "Landing"

Postby Girl-With-A-Math-Fetish » Mon Nov 17, 2014 8:42 pm UTC

I'm working on a comic strip now. It sort of looks like an xkcd comic stylistically, but with shading and is hand drawn. It's titled "Dreams of Philae..." and is about Philae managing to detach from the comet and goes out to explore the cosmos, and learning about the universe.


Canonically, Philae is male. But his name and his personality seems so much more female. Rosetta is canonically female, though.

Either way, he's so damn adorable, and I want a plushie. That way, I can cuddle him, so that when I feel sad for him, I can do the next best thing and cuddle him, and pretend I'm moving him to a safer place.
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Re: 1446: "Landing"

Postby ucim » Mon Nov 17, 2014 8:57 pm UTC

Girl-With-A-Math-Fetish wrote:Rosetta is canonically female, though.
Interesting. Rosetta is female in the One True Comic.

Although upon reflection, there's really no proof of that.

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Re: 1446: "Landing"

Postby Coyoty » Mon Nov 17, 2014 9:31 pm UTC

Girl-With-A-Math-Fetish wrote:
Klear wrote:The worst thing is that we are guaranteed a bad ending. At best bittersweet. This is why I hated to study history - I knew that every historical figure I've grown attached to will eventually die and every empire will fall.


I guess, in a way. And as long as Philae remains anchored, once she gets a bit closer to the sun, she can resume her mission. She's... in a coma. She's in a coma on a comet. And as she gets closer to the sun, she'll be coming in a coma on a comet in the coma of the comet. I've never been this agitated about something like this... but I guess it's the anthropomorphism that really bugs me, giving her a personality and all...


And we won't be able to see it against the background, so it'll be a comet coma coma chameleon.

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Re: 1446: "Landing"

Postby Coyoty » Mon Nov 17, 2014 10:17 pm UTC

Apparently the harpoons didn't work because someone chose a propellant that doesn't ignite in vacuum.

In space, no one can hear an ESA engineer scream.

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Re: 1446: "Landing"

Postby Whizbang » Mon Nov 17, 2014 10:21 pm UTC

...Wat


Isn't the first thing to ask when you are designing something to be used in space, 'Does this work in space?"

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Re: 1446: "Landing"

Postby azule » Mon Nov 17, 2014 10:48 pm UTC

Earthling on Mars wrote:
CasCat wrote:So, has anyone noticed that Philae is quiet now?

URL of that picture for posterity, since http://xkcd1446.org has stopped updating... the maker of that site seems to have assumed it's over.
Where does this fit in, EoM or CasCat? Did it appear immediately after "r_17-15-00_jx7ENjy6ac"? Did it align with any outside news? Just a bookend for Monday?


Coyoty wrote:Apparently the harpoons didn't work because someone chose a propellant that doesn't ignite in vacuum.
I guess rocket science isn't harpoon science. Or. I guess rocket science isn't propellant science. Or. I guess rocket science isn't vacuum science.
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Re: 1446: "Landing"

Postby rmsgrey » Mon Nov 17, 2014 10:52 pm UTC

Whizbang wrote:...Wat


Isn't the first thing to ask when you are designing something to be used in space, 'Does this work in space?"


Apparently they only discovered that the propellant doesn't work in space last year...

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Re: 1446: "Landing"

Postby BlitzGirl » Mon Nov 17, 2014 10:56 pm UTC

Spoiler:
Going to post the original of the frame CasCat posted earlier, just to have the actual image in the thread. I haven't been able to before because this is the first time the image has actually loaded for me on the comic page since the live updating ended:

Image
The url is slightly different, ends in /r_148_MLFkxqV4Dy.png
rather than the previous format /r_17-15-00_jx7ENjy6ac.png
Edits: Severely ninja'd. Whoops! :P
Last edited by BlitzGirl on Mon Nov 17, 2014 11:01 pm UTC, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: 1446: "Landing"

Postby CasCat » Mon Nov 17, 2014 10:57 pm UTC

azule wrote:
Earthling on Mars wrote:
CasCat wrote:So, has anyone noticed that Philae is quiet now?

URL of that picture for posterity, since http://xkcd1446.org has stopped updating... the maker of that site seems to have assumed it's over.
Where does this fit in, EoM or CasCat? Did it appear immediately after "r_17-15-00_jx7ENjy6ac"? Did it align with any outside news? Just a bookend for Monday?


I wasn't checking obsessively, but it was the first (and only) new frame I saw after "I'm ok and I'm on a comet". I presume (but do not know for sure) the timing coincides with Philae's battery running out.

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Re: 1446: "Landing"

Postby azule » Mon Nov 17, 2014 11:23 pm UTC

Cassy wrote:I wasn't checking obsessively, but it was the first (and only) new frame I saw after "I'm ok and I'm on a comet". I presume (but do not know for sure) the timing coincides with Philae's battery running out.
Not obsessing? *ugh* ;) Kidding. Thank you! (and others) for keeping track and discovering that last frame. :)
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Re: 1446: "Landing"

Postby Mikeski » Mon Nov 17, 2014 11:53 pm UTC

Quercus wrote:
Whizbang wrote:Take away:
Space exploration is easier works better than politics

Space exploration is easier works better smarter than the people in politics.

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Re: 1446: "Landing"

Postby Eternal Density » Tue Nov 18, 2014 1:53 am UTC

The comet is male, and Philae, Rosetta, and the launch thrusters are all female, as proven by this dramatic re-enactment:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpzUOhn_aqg
(The Phil referred to is of course Phil Plait)
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Re: 1446: "Landing"

Postby Ken_g6 » Tue Nov 18, 2014 2:53 am UTC

rmsgrey wrote:
Whizbang wrote:...Wat


Isn't the first thing to ask when you are designing something to be used in space, 'Does this work in space?"


Apparently they only discovered that the propellant doesn't work in space last year...

It may be that nobody had actually tried it ever until then. The chemistry looks OK for space. No external oxygen is needed for ignition. Apparently it's a lack of gas pressure to concentrate the reaction gases that's the problem.

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Re: 1446: "Landing"

Postby Whizbang » Tue Nov 18, 2014 3:32 am UTC

Well then. I retract my "Wat".

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Re: 1446: "Landing"

Postby Girl-With-A-Math-Fetish » Tue Nov 18, 2014 5:12 am UTC

Why didn't they use a propellant they knew would work in space, then? And his screws didn't work properly, either, right? So basically, he's hanging on by really weak gravity?
Ahh...

What's wrong with obsessing over Philae? *looks at the hundreds of xkcd-style drawings and counting on papers, digitally drawn, and on my arm, a few in extra detail* I think I've fallen in love with him, haha! Literally, though... yeah, I have one of the strangest orientations in existence. xD There's a sleeping Philae on the back of my left hand. I wish my computer worked so that I'd have access to my drawing programs. I'm forced to draw in MS paint what I wanted to draw detailed in PS. But I can do pretty well for Paint. xD

On a side note, we need to find some place that makes little Philae plushies. If there isn't any, force some place to make them so I can buy them. At least then I won't be squirming in my sleep worrying whether he has hung on or not. C'mon, ESA! Everyone wants them! NASA has a plushie of almost every American spacecraft! This was HUGE news--so there better be a plushie of Philae/Rosetta soon!

If anyone else is going to MegaCon this (edit: this being 2015) year, I'm wondering if anyone's interested in doing a Philae/Rosetta cosplay. One of us will be Philae, and the other will be Rosetta. A third person could be the comet, but people will wonder why you're coming dressed as a gray potato, unless they really know what 67P looks like. xD Seriously though. I wouldn't know anyone IRL willing to do this. I really wish I can pull this off. We'd have the best and nerdiest cosplays in all of MegaCon! I can see how one could see out of a Rosetta costume, but not out of a Philae costume. They'd have to have their head poking out of the top, I guess. Would look awkward, but lol...
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Re: 1446: "Landing"

Postby Neil_Boekend » Tue Nov 18, 2014 7:15 am UTC

Girl-With-A-Math-Fetish, there is a lego Philae

About Philae's gender: I feel Philae is multiple. The "-ae" does that. Not having studied Latin I could be, and probably am, completely false but a few neurons keep shouting "It's the latin version of "-s".
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Re: 1446: "Landing"

Postby Djehutynakht » Tue Nov 18, 2014 7:31 am UTC

Neil_Boekend wrote:About Philae's gender: I feel Philae is multiple. The "-ae" does that. Not having studied Latin I could be, and probably am, completely false but a few neurons keep shouting "It's the latin version of "-s".


The origin of the name is plural, yes. Philae is an island (or two islands, hence plural) where, according to the ESA's website, an inscription was found which helped archaeologists confirm the translations provided by the Rosetta Stone.

So yeah. Rosetta, a key to unlocking this secret. Philae is the additional confirmation.

But although originally plural, it's referred to in the singular I believe.
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Also, I learned that xkcd's coverage of the Philae landing isn't covered in the Wikipedia "Cultural References" section, whereas the Google Doodle is.

Someone should fix that.

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Re: 1446: "Landing"

Postby Neil_Boekend » Tue Nov 18, 2014 7:35 am UTC

In science fictions replicators in human form are often referred to as singular.
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Re: 1446: "Landing"

Postby Quercus » Tue Nov 18, 2014 8:04 am UTC

Re. Plushies - I believe there are some people on the forums who are quite accomplished knitters (can't remember who though), maybe you can do some drawings for someone in exchange for a knitted Philae or something similar (the legs would probably be hard to knit, but they could be done in folded configuration I guess). Failing that there's always 3d printing, but that would probably be less huggable.

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Re: 1446: "Landing"

Postby Seti » Tue Nov 18, 2014 10:45 am UTC

Good news, everyone! I just read an article on the website of the German Aerospace Center (DLR) where one of their scientists responsible for monitoring Philae said the following. (Fortunately they publish bilingual announcements so I don't have to translate it myself.)

Source
Waiting for news of Philae
"I'm very confident that Philae will resume contact with us and that we will be able to operate the instruments again," says DLR Lander Project Manager Stephan Ulamec. Once the rechargeable secondary battery has been warmed by sunlight again, Philae will restart and the DLR LCC team will take their places at the control consoles again. "At the first landing site, we would, of course, have had better solar illumination conditions," says Ulamec. "Now we are somewhat in shadow, we will need more time to charge." One advantage of the shadier landing site in a crater is that the Philae lander will not overheat as quickly as the comet approaches the Sun, but will benefit from the stronger sunlight. The team managed to rotate the lander during the night of 14/15 November 2014, so that the largest solar panel is now aligned towards the Sun.

Contact in the coming year
Stephan Ulamec believes it is probable that in the spring of 2015, the DLR LCC will once again communicate with Philae and receive data about how the lander is faring on Comet 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko. In the summer of 2015, it might be possible that temperatures on the comet will allow Philae’s battery to be recharged. "The orbiter will continue with its overflights to receive any signals from the lander once Philae wakes up from hibernation."

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Re: 1446: "Landing"

Postby mrburns1436 » Tue Nov 18, 2014 11:04 am UTC

I've never posted before, but I'm a longtime fan. I have one of your books, and even received an autographed single panel a few years ago from my sister! Just wanted to say that your time lapse of the Rosetta landing was just a great idea. I was already excited about the news story even though I was incredibly busy at the time and only heard updates late and second hand. The comic really brought home the human effort and hope and potential and excitement that made up this mission. It was really something special. Or rather, it made something that was undoubtedly special *feel* special to someone who was incredibly removed from the thing itself. To oversimplify, thank you for making cool things. I'm so glad that we live in a world where you are able to make cool things :)

Also, at the end, when I looked down and figured out I could control it with the arrow keys, I had a lot of fun.

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Re: 1446: "Landing"

Postby Febrion » Tue Nov 18, 2014 1:28 pm UTC

Whizbang wrote:...Wat


Isn't the first thing to ask when you are designing something to be used in space, 'Does this work in space?"


Well, in theory1, yes, but in practice the first question is usually "How much does this cost/weigh?"


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Re: 1446: "Landing"

Postby Keyman » Tue Nov 18, 2014 2:23 pm UTC

Girl-With-A-Math-Fetish wrote:I'm working on a comic strip now. It sort of looks like an xkcd comic stylistically, but with shading and is hand drawn. It's titled "Dreams of Philae..." and is about Philae managing to detach from the comet and goes out to explore the cosmos, and learning about the universe.
It looks like you're already in "syndication". On the ESA blog thread where they posted pictures of Philae bouncing (http://blogs.esa.int/rosetta/2014/11/17 ... the-comet/)...one of the commenters posted the link back here to your drawings
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Re: 1446: "Landing"

Postby Earthling on Mars » Tue Nov 18, 2014 4:39 pm UTC

Another new frame. Earth is thinking of Philae.
Image

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Re: 1446: "Landing"

Postby Klear » Tue Nov 18, 2014 5:23 pm UTC

There's a pretty funny chainsawsuit about all this:

Image

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Re: 1446: "Landing"

Postby AarexTiaokhiao » Tue Nov 18, 2014 10:41 pm UTC

And the comic turns white. THE END?
I QUIT

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Re: 1446: "Landing"

Postby azule » Tue Nov 18, 2014 11:44 pm UTC

Another great find, EoM! I'm guessing that this may continue to update once a day during the workweek.

So, what does the 148 (in "r_148_MLFkxqV4Dy"), and now 149 mean? It's not day of the year. It couldn't be hour. Someone have other guesses?
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Re: 1446: "Landing"

Postby BlitzGirl » Tue Nov 18, 2014 11:47 pm UTC

Possibly number of frames? The viewing site counted to 142 before it stopped updating.
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Re: 1446: "Landing"

Postby Girl-With-A-Math-Fetish » Wed Nov 19, 2014 12:07 am UTC

Klear wrote:There's a pretty funny chainsawsuit about all this:

Spoiler:
Image


(er hopefully I put the spoiler tags right this time xD)

But... Philae and Rosetta are canonically brother and sister... *_*

Ahahaha! Yes! I would do such a thing xD Art trade for a Philae plushie. Especially once I fix my laptop and have access to Photoshop and can draw my *actual* art, and not little doodles. xD I'm working on another traditional drawing right now, though. It's a detailed drawing of Philae and Rosetta (as well as the Space Core, because why not) with 67P. Philae's falling to the comet, and has a face, and the two feeler-like things on his "face" look like little arms. I've been having quite an art block lately, but now I don't seem to have enough time (I draw during class, usually--it helps me concentrate) to draw all the little Philaes I want to x3

I might draw another one that's based off of another children's book (but this time, not so sad). Instead of "Have You Seen My Mother?" it will be "Have You Seen Rosetta?" x3 where Philae gets knocked off of the comet's surface, and is flung away, asking various planets and such if they've seen Rosetta.

I fricken drew a large-ish picture of Philae and put the drawing in a page protector and slept next to that because I want to hug him so badly... time for a year-long period of drawing anthro Philaes. When I was in 8th grade, I spent a lot of the time drawing an anthropomorphic version of the Spark Gap Tesla Coil circuit (which sort of looks like a cat, depending on how the circuit is drawn). The next year, it was Bender (among other Futurama characters--I love the show... in fact, I was watching it today, even though I've seen every episode already). After that, it was the Companion Cube (among other Portal characters). After that, it was one of my own characters--a furry character, based off of the Portal Gun. But for the past few months, I've had a severe art block--something I've never had before. Oh, but now? Little anthro Philaes. I've drawn probably 30 more proper Philaes. Once I get my phone fixed (really, this wasn't my fault... it's a crappy phone), I can take a proper picture of the drawings and upload them. My camera got stolen around this time last year (wait no, it was right before Christmas break, not right before Turkey break) too. Even my calculator had malfunctioned in the past, but I take full fault to that. That or the person who's earliest screen name was "TheTechnoGirl" just sucks at technology... but her Tesla Coil didn't work simply because she fails at winding secondaries and tried to build one when she was 12ish/13ish, and lacked the funding to build it properly. If only she could build it truly properly... though I think MIT would be appreciative of the fact I attempted to build one (I said that I built one... I never mentioned if it actually worked or not, haha... though I've been recently trying to buy a secondary off of my coiler friend to make a Solid State Tesla Coil).

But yeah. Hopefully the phone should be fixed by tomorrow, and then I can take a picture. I'm also trying to work on a drawing in Paint, since I can't really put anything better on my brother's crappy computer (not even GIMP). But I can make rather decent pictures in paint. I do have two (three, really, but two are similar) examples--one (and the related) is SFW and was an art trade for an icon with someone of their friend Catherine character munching on a cookie (the related is similarly done of a zombie bunny munching on a... thing... some spherical blue blob with eyes), and the other is a very NSFW drawing--the topic of which is highly suggested by my username (involving a graph of sin(x)/x and a girl and bondage). This Philae drawing is rather hard to do since he's really detailed and doesn't look good MS-Paint style simplified if in color.

Anyone want me to draw something?
If you have an idea for a Philae drawing/comic, I'll be more than happy to draw it x3
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Re: 1446: "Landing"

Postby azule » Wed Nov 19, 2014 12:13 am UTC

Ask a stupid question get a genius answer. That lines up perfectly when you include the "missing frames" in the count (but not the placecard frame). It could be interpreted as every spot possible in 5 minute chunks, even if a frame wasn't released for that spot the counting continued on. 5 minutes doesn't make sense after it stopped being "[LIVE]" (even though it hasn't), but yeah, that's the 148th and 149th frames.
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Re: 1446: "Landing"

Postby ucim » Wed Nov 19, 2014 2:00 am UTC

azule wrote:5 minutes doesn't make sense after it stopped being "[LIVE]" (even though it hasn't), but yeah, that's the 148th and 149th frames.
Can I tell you about the ONGs and the newpix?

@Girl-With-A-Math-Fetish - that was a very touching comic you posted (on Philae some pages ago; I just was busy with Outside and couldn't respond much).

In any case, I expect Philae to wake up when things start getting heated; I just wonder if it will end up bounced around by cometquakes (which are sure to happen - did they put a seismometer on Philae?) and perhaps bounced off.

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Re: 1446: "Landing"

Postby azule » Wed Nov 19, 2014 2:54 am UTC

ucim wrote:Can I tell you about the ONGs and the newpix?
Me? *sweats* I'll clarify via Time: ONGs and np are not "time" based. They're not even numerically aligned. Example being the meteor frames. "Landing" is 5 minute based but also numerically aligned. This causes wishy-washy time stuff, but I'm still sure it's different than ONGs and np. Could you clarify?
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Re: 1446: "Landing"

Postby ucim » Wed Nov 19, 2014 3:50 am UTC

azule wrote:
ucim wrote:Can I tell you about the ONGs and the newpix?
Me? *sweats* I'll clarify via Time: ONGs and np are not "time" based. They're not even numerically aligned. Example being the meteor frames. "Landing" is 5 minute based but also numerically aligned. This causes wishy-washy time stuff, but I'm still sure it's different than ONGs and np. Could you clarify?
Just that counting by frame is a Time honored tradition, even though ni ni ni there are three different standards for doing so. It's too soon to know whether or not we have a Longpix Scenario here, and if when the lander wakes up, the Space frames will start up again with an appropriate frame number (like 7523) to account for the proper number of five-minute cycles. But it would not be without precedent.

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Re: 1446: "Landing"

Postby Girl-With-A-Math-Fetish » Wed Nov 19, 2014 3:56 am UTC

I'm working on several more little Philae comics x3
Nowhere near as sad, though.

I really wish I had access to my proper computer. Then I could make little Philae comics pretty much daily.
Hm. I should make another wordpress page (I have one for general intellectual posts), and have it upload them once a day. x3

But I did doodle this one out of the blue in MS Paint in about 3 hours. To be honest, the lineart and coloring in the lineart only took me at most 30-45 minutes. It was the ground and sky that took me the rest of the time. xD

"Cuddlenom" is a sort of playful way of saying "I love you." xD

Do you like this style of Philae better, or the style I've had in the previous pictures (i.e. more detailed and with a face)? x3

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(so that I don't break the thread like I nearly did)
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Re: 1446: "Landing"

Postby azule » Wed Nov 19, 2014 4:42 am UTC

ucim wrote:Just that counting by frame is a Time honored tradition, even though ni ni ni there are three different standards for doing so. It's too soon to know whether or not we have a Longpix Scenario here, and if when the lander wakes up, the Space frames will start up again with an appropriate frame number (like 7523) to account for the proper number of five-minute cycles. But it would not be without precedent.
Okay. I got confused with regard to the 5 min thing. I was saying that it didn't fit in under the interval theme but totally fine in a sequential collection. explainxkcd tried to number them but found more and had to subnumber them. The preceding was not as coherent or engaging as it should have been.
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Re: 1446: "Landing"

Postby peregrine_crow » Wed Nov 19, 2014 8:44 am UTC

Ken_g6 wrote:
rmsgrey wrote:
Whizbang wrote:...Wat


Isn't the first thing to ask when you are designing something to be used in space, 'Does this work in space?"


Apparently they only discovered that the propellant doesn't work in space last year...

It may be that nobody had actually tried it ever until then. The chemistry looks OK for space. No external oxygen is needed for ignition. Apparently it's a lack of gas pressure to concentrate the reaction gases that's the problem.


So why don't they do a full test of all crucial systems inside a vacuum chamber before sending it on a decade long mission? Just to make sure something like this doesn't happen ten years down the line.

Do we not have vacuum chambers that large (I have no idea how large Philea is, but it can't be that big, right)?
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Re: 1446: "Landing"

Postby orthogon » Wed Nov 19, 2014 10:37 am UTC

peregrine_crow wrote:
Ken_g6 wrote:
rmsgrey wrote:
Whizbang wrote:...Wat


Isn't the first thing to ask when you are designing something to be used in space, 'Does this work in space?"


Apparently they only discovered that the propellant doesn't work in space last year...

It may be that nobody had actually tried it ever until then. The chemistry looks OK for space. No external oxygen is needed for ignition. Apparently it's a lack of gas pressure to concentrate the reaction gases that's the problem.


So why don't they do a full test of all crucial systems inside a vacuum chamber before sending it on a decade long mission? Just to make sure something like this doesn't happen ten years down the line.

Do we not have vacuum chambers that large (I have no idea how large Philea is, but it can't be that big, right)?

NASA has an enormous one, which featured on Brian Cox's latest series Human Universe. They dropped a feather and a bowling ball in a vacuum and they hit the ground at the same time. Maybe ESA doesn't have one though.
EDIT: Its volume is 800,000 cubic feet, i.e. about 80 000m3
xtifr wrote:... and orthogon merely sounds undecided.


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