1447: " Meta-Analysis"

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Dr What
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1447: " Meta-Analysis"

Postby Dr What » Fri Nov 14, 2014 7:25 am UTC

Image
title="Life goal #29 is to get enough of them rejected that I can publish a comparative analysis of the rejection letters."

This must be the so-called recursive meta analysis.

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Re: 1447: " Meta-Analysis"

Postby Envelope Generator » Fri Nov 14, 2014 7:34 am UTC

Recursive? How so? For a meta-meta-meta-analysis to be recursive it would have to be analysing itself and then it wouldn't be a meta-meta-meta-analysis at all but a meta-meta-meta-meta-analysis and that's what you should be calling it. Then, of course, it wouldn't be a meta-meta-meta-meta-analysis at all but a meta-meta-meta-meta-meta-analysis.
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Re: 1447: " Meta-Analysis"

Postby rhomboidal » Fri Nov 14, 2014 8:08 am UTC

Better "too meta" than "tl;dr".

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Re: 1447: " Meta-Analysis"

Postby Dr What » Fri Nov 14, 2014 9:19 am UTC

Envelope Generator wrote:Recursive? How so? For a meta-meta-meta-analysis to be recursive it would have to be analysing itself and then it wouldn't be a meta-meta-meta-analysis at all but a meta-meta-meta-meta-analysis and that's what you should be calling it. Then, of course, it wouldn't be a meta-meta-meta-meta-analysis at all but a meta-meta-meta-meta-meta-analysis.


Yes, and of course it will be rejected because of "too meta", goal #28 achieved. Next is goal #29, but it already analysed itself, so a meta-too-meta analysis is already done. 2 achievements with 1 analysis :D

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Re: 1447: " Meta-Analysis"

Postby dalcde » Fri Nov 14, 2014 10:04 am UTC

meta^{\omega_0}-analysis

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Re: 1447: " Meta-Analysis"

Postby rmsgrey » Fri Nov 14, 2014 2:11 pm UTC

But can you meta a limit-meta?

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Re: 1447: " Meta-Analysis"

Postby orthogon » Fri Nov 14, 2014 2:36 pm UTC

I met an Alice once. Miss Alice Jones. Have you meta?
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xtifr wrote:... and orthogon merely sounds undecided.

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Re: 1447: " Meta-Analysis"

Postby cellocgw » Fri Nov 14, 2014 2:39 pm UTC

FRIST with:

I never met a meta I didn't like.


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Re: 1447: " Meta-Analysis"

Postby alanbbent » Fri Nov 14, 2014 3:07 pm UTC

cellocgw wrote:FRIST with:

I never met a meta I didn't like.


And I'm FRIST to comment on this comment.

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Re: 1447: " Meta-Analysis"

Postby Gargravarr » Fri Nov 14, 2014 3:08 pm UTC

Yuck, nested quotation marks.

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Re: 1447: " Meta-Analysis"

Postby Gargravarr » Fri Nov 14, 2014 3:10 pm UTC

alanbbent wrote:
cellocgw wrote:FRIST with:
I never met a meta I didn't like.

And I'm FRIST to comment on this comment.

FRIST!

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Re: 1447: " Meta-Analysis"

Postby Gargravarr » Fri Nov 14, 2014 3:15 pm UTC

Also, this
Image

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Re: 1447: " Meta-Analysis"

Postby orthogon » Fri Nov 14, 2014 3:24 pm UTC

Come to think of it, as I recall Miss Jones had female sexual organs and female gender. So you could say I met an Alice (cis).
xtifr wrote:... and orthogon merely sounds undecided.

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Re: 1447: " Meta-Analysis"

Postby Coyoty » Fri Nov 14, 2014 4:48 pm UTC

It's not a study of people with superpowers?

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Re: 1447: " Meta-Analysis"

Postby mikrit » Fri Nov 14, 2014 4:51 pm UTC

No teacher I of boys and smaller fry.
No teacher I of teachers; no, not I.
Mine was the longer aim, the distant reach,
To teach men how to teach men how to teach.

(I saw this long ago and memorized it. Apologies to the author if I mangled it.)
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Re: 1447: " Meta-Analysis"

Postby orthogon » Fri Nov 14, 2014 5:01 pm UTC

mikrit wrote:No teacher I of boys and smaller fry.
No teacher I of teachers; no, not I.
Mine was the longer aim, the distant reach,
To teach men how to teach men how to teach.

(I saw this long ago and memorized it. Apologies to the author if I mangled it.)

Back in the dotcom boom I had a one-night stand (true story, unlike Alice Jones, whom I made up) with a girl whose job was to recruit people to recruit people to do IT. I think she was on the payroll of an IT recruitment recruitment consultancy, so presumably somebody had recruited her. That person was, at least briefly, in meta-meta-recruitment.
xtifr wrote:... and orthogon merely sounds undecided.

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Re: 1447: " Meta-Analysis"

Postby Klear » Fri Nov 14, 2014 5:25 pm UTC

mikrit wrote:No teacher I of boys and smaller fry.
No teacher I of teachers; no, not I.
Mine was the longer aim, the distant reach,
To teach men how to teach men how to teach.

(I saw this long ago and memorized it. Apologies to the author if I mangled it.)


If you really want to do that, maybe I could teach you...

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Re: 1447: " Meta-Analysis"

Postby mathmannix » Fri Nov 14, 2014 5:47 pm UTC

mikrit wrote:No teacher I of boys and smaller fry.
No teacher I of teachers; no, not I.
Mine was the longer aim, the distant reach,
To teach men how to teach men how to teach.

(I saw this long ago and memorized it. Apologies to the author if I mangled it.)


Just about every teacher had multiple teachers (including several that specifically taught them to be teachers). So you could say every teacher is the end product of tens or hundreds of generations of this going backwards, implying many teachers from hundreds of years ago who were teachers of teachers [...] of teachers for hundreds of repetitions.
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Re: 1447: " Meta-Analysis"

Postby Klear » Fri Nov 14, 2014 5:57 pm UTC

mathmannix wrote:
mikrit wrote:No teacher I of boys and smaller fry.
No teacher I of teachers; no, not I.
Mine was the longer aim, the distant reach,
To teach men how to teach men how to teach.

(I saw this long ago and memorized it. Apologies to the author if I mangled it.)


Just about every teacher had multiple teachers (including several that specifically taught them to be teachers). So you could say every teacher is the end product of tens or hundreds of generations of this going backwards, implying many teachers from hundreds of years ago who were teachers of teachers [...] of teachers for hundreds of repetitions.


But these teachers were only teaching them to teach, there's not a lot of teachers specifically teaching to teach future teachers. That's something the teachers usually have to come up with themselves.

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Re: 1447: " Meta-Analysis"

Postby mathmannix » Fri Nov 14, 2014 6:19 pm UTC

Klear wrote:
mathmannix wrote:
mikrit wrote:No teacher I of boys and smaller fry.
No teacher I of teachers; no, not I.
Mine was the longer aim, the distant reach,
To teach men how to teach men how to teach.

(I saw this long ago and memorized it. Apologies to the author if I mangled it.)


Just about every teacher had multiple teachers (including several that specifically taught them to be teachers). So you could say every teacher is the end product of tens or hundreds of generations of this going backwards, implying many teachers from hundreds of years ago who were teachers of teachers [...] of teachers for hundreds of repetitions.


But these teachers were only teaching them to teach, there's not a lot of teachers specifically teaching to teach future teachers. That's something the teachers usually have to come up with themselves.


Ehh, at some point it converges. Teaching math is very different from teaching 18th-century French literature, and both are very different from teaching teaching. But teaching math teachers is not quite as different from teaching 18th-century-French-literature teachers. On a different but similar note, teaching math is different from teaching math teachers, but not so different that those majoring in mathematics education (as many of my friends did) and those majoring in (as I did) applied mathematics don't have overlapping courses. Those who teach math teachers and those who teach those who teach math teachers are even more similar. And so on... like I said, it converges.
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Re: 1447: " Meta-Analysis"

Postby billk » Fri Nov 14, 2014 6:43 pm UTC

For comparative analysis:
MS Fnd in a Lbry (Hal Draper)

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Re: 1447: " Meta-Analysis"

Postby JohnTheWysard » Fri Nov 14, 2014 8:49 pm UTC

So, for what is the concept of "meta-meta-meta-meta-analysis" a metaphor?

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Re: 1447: " Meta-Analysis"

Postby cellocgw » Fri Nov 14, 2014 9:52 pm UTC

JohnTheWysard wrote:So, for what is the concept of "meta-meta-meta-meta-analysis" a metaphor?


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Re: 1447: " Meta-Analysis"

Postby Pfhorrest » Fri Nov 14, 2014 11:56 pm UTC

What's a meta-metaphor for?
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Re: 1447: " Meta-Analysis"

Postby Klear » Sat Nov 15, 2014 12:05 am UTC

Pfhorrest wrote:What's a meta-metaphor for?


A pleonasm?

Nah, but it sounds like one.

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Re: 1447: " Meta-Analysis"

Postby addams » Sat Nov 15, 2014 1:53 am UTC

mikrit wrote:No teacher I of boys and smaller fry.
No teacher I of teachers; no, not I.
Mine was the longer aim, the distant reach,
To teach men how to teach men how to teach.

(I saw this long ago and memorized it. Apologies to the author if I mangled it.)

That is beautiful.

Off to the Teacher's College he went.
There the instructors both teach and learn humility.
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

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Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

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Re: 1447: " Meta-Analysis"

Postby Lee_Dailey » Sat Nov 15, 2014 3:07 am UTC

mikrit wrote:No teacher I of boys and smaller fry.
No teacher I of teachers; no, not I.
Mine was the longer aim, the distant reach,
To teach men how to teach men how to teach.

(I saw this long ago and memorized it. Apologies to the author if I mangled it.)

howdy mikrit,

this is all i could find on the source of that quote ...
No Teacher I Of Boys Or Smaller Fry, No Teacher I Of Teachers, No, Not I.
- http://www.anvari.org/fortune/Miscellan ... not-i.html
"
No teacher I of boys or smaller fry,
No teacher I of teachers, no, not I.
Mine was the distant aim, the longer reach,
To teach men how to teach men how to teach.
-- A B Ramsay
"

all i can find on a.b. ramsay is a note that he got the job of "Master of Magdalene College, in Cambridge" in 1925. that's from the 3rd paragraph here ...
Henry Marten (educator) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Marten_(educator)

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Re: 1447: " Meta-Analysis"

Postby ruurdjan » Sun Nov 16, 2014 12:18 am UTC

boys or smaller fry

Does that mean what I think it means? Not good...

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Re: 1447: " Meta-Analysis"

Postby ilduri » Sun Nov 16, 2014 7:33 pm UTC

ruurdjan wrote:
boys or smaller fry

Does that mean what I think it means? Not good...

I didn't notice it before you pointed it out but yeah, that sounds pretty horrifyingly sexist.
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Re: 1447: " Meta-Analysis"

Postby azule » Sun Nov 16, 2014 9:02 pm UTC

Why sexist? I assume the "smaller fry" refers to even younger boys, like toddlers or infants. If you mean sexist because girls/women are never mentioned, then sure, sexist.

edit: mean, not just "man". hah, apropos typo.
Last edited by azule on Sun Nov 16, 2014 9:59 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 1447: " Meta-Analysis"

Postby addams » Sun Nov 16, 2014 9:40 pm UTC

ilduri wrote:
ruurdjan wrote:
boys or smaller fry

Does that mean what I think it means? Not good...

I didn't notice it before you pointed it out but yeah, that sounds pretty horrifyingly sexist.

Sexist?

Only boys were educated.
Only boys were fried up in a pan.
What's sexist about that?

When women jump into the fire,
They get fried, too.
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Re: 1447: " Meta-Analysis"

Postby kelly_holden » Sun Nov 16, 2014 11:05 pm UTC

literally speaking fry are baby fish, linked to human children by analogy (like 'kid'). Nothing to do with cooking; it's not even the same word, it just looks the same.

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Re: 1447: " Meta-Analysis"

Postby addams » Sun Nov 16, 2014 11:43 pm UTC

kelly_holden wrote:literally speaking fry are baby fish, linked to human children by analogy (like 'kid'). Nothing to do with cooking; it's not even the same word, it just looks the same.

We don't fry, fry?
oh. I thought we did.

Do we smoke them?
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

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Re: 1447: " Meta-Analysis"

Postby kelly_holden » Mon Nov 17, 2014 1:27 am UTC

you can fry fry, though eating juvenile fish is usually discouraged to give them a change to breed. However, the baby fish word is natively Germanic, and the cooking word comes from French.

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Re: 1447: " Meta-Analysis"

Postby Mikeski » Mon Nov 17, 2014 6:30 am UTC

kelly_holden wrote:you can fry fry

But good luck fishing them out of the oil in time. (Pun totally intended.) Even eventually-half-ton tuna are only a few millimeters long when hatched.

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Re: 1447: " Meta-Analysis"

Postby Coyoty » Mon Nov 17, 2014 8:48 pm UTC

mathmannix wrote:Just about every teacher had multiple teachers (including several that specifically taught them to be teachers). So you could say every teacher is the end product of tens or hundreds of generations of this going backwards, implying many teachers from hundreds of years ago who were teachers of teachers [...] of teachers for hundreds of repetitions.


It's tutors all the way down.

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Re: 1447: " Meta-Analysis"

Postby AlgaeSea » Mon Nov 17, 2014 8:58 pm UTC

Coyoty wrote:
mathmannix wrote:Just about every teacher had multiple teachers (including several that specifically taught them to be teachers). So you could say every teacher is the end product of tens or hundreds of generations of this going backwards, implying many teachers from hundreds of years ago who were teachers of teachers [...] of teachers for hundreds of repetitions.


It's tutors all the way down.


A Tutor Who Tooted the Flute
By: Anonymous

A tutor who tooted the flute
Tried to teach two young tooters to toot;
Said the two to the tutor,
“Is it harder to toot, or
To tutor two tooters to toot?”

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Re: 1447: " Meta-Analysis"

Postby ilduri » Mon Nov 17, 2014 11:56 pm UTC

azule wrote:Why sexist? I assume the "smaller fry" refers to even younger boys, like toddlers or infants. If you mean sexist because girls/women are never mentioned, then sure, sexist.

edit: mean, not just "man". hah, apropos typo.

Oh, I meant it's sexist if the "smaller fry" refers to girls. That seemed like a natural interpretation to me because, linguistically, girls is usually the other category of children, (ie., those not included in boys).

In other words, I didn't mean sexist because girls weren't mentioned, but because of the way in which it seemed like they were mentioned.

Of course, I have no idea if that's what the original author meant, but it's what I thought ruurdjan was refering to.
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Re: 1447: " Meta-Analysis"

Postby azule » Tue Nov 18, 2014 1:11 am UTC

Totally.

I think, when it says smaller fry and not just small fry, it must be using comparative language to denote a difference from "boys". So, the question becomes, do we have names for people of all ages? Men, boys, babies. That's it. Like "children", "babies" has no gender attached. Is it a good thing to not have gendered words, or should we have more?

Oh yeah, so what's the topic here? *runs off*
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Re: 1447: " Meta-Analysis"

Postby addams » Tue Nov 18, 2014 2:26 am UTC

AlgaeSea wrote:A Tutor Who Tooted the Flute
By: Anonymous

A tutor who tooted the flute
Tried to teach two young tooters to toot;
Said the two to the tutor,
“Is it harder to toot, or
To tutor two tooters to toot?”

Is the following true?
Those who Can, Do.
Those that Can't, Teach.

If that is true. then Tooting is harder than Tutoring Tooters.

It's nice to have One question answered. (phew)
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.


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