1474: "Screws"

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Coyoty
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Re: 1474: "Screws"

Postby Coyoty » Fri Jan 16, 2015 3:04 pm UTC

Phillip's head also looks like it's cursed.

Terrence and Phillip heads:

Image

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Re: 1474: "Screws"

Postby Grahamf » Fri Jan 16, 2015 3:05 pm UTC

Michael.K wrote:
Eogan wrote:Meanwhile in Canada:

[image removed due to new account limitations]

This is what I came for.
♪ Oh Canada… ♪

Me to. I actually registered an account for this?

Why is there no Robertson? It is the superior screwhead. It almost never ever strips (unless you use one size too small but even then:) and it is very easy to tell if you have the correct size screw. It also can be unscrewed even when the hard is filled with paint, and unlike the Phillips you can stick it onto the head of the screwdriver (or drill bit) and it will stay without the need for magnets. It is what we use to build our houses, and it is clearly the superior screw. The only reason why it isn't used in the usa is licensing (Robertson was screwed over by a British company and so refuses to license now), as the advantages are many.
Last edited by Grahamf on Fri Jan 16, 2015 6:00 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 1474: "Screws"

Postby Whizbang » Fri Jan 16, 2015 3:11 pm UTC

cellocgw wrote:I bet this sheet is posted somewhere on the intertubes but just as the whatif guy was too lazy to go to the bowling alley for his mass data, I'm too lazy to search for it.


What the hell, Google image search? I put in the key words "screw head chart two headed screw funny" and the 20th image was a dog with an arrow through it's head. WTF, I didn't need to see that this morning.

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Re: 1474: "Screws"

Postby DougDean » Fri Jan 16, 2015 3:11 pm UTC

Either way, you're done in by an inclined plane wrapped helically around a cylinder.

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Re: 1474: "Screws"

Postby jozwa » Fri Jan 16, 2015 3:14 pm UTC

My favorites are the tri-wing screws that Nintendo uses. They are almost compatible with a phillips head screwdriver.

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Re: 1474: "Screws"

Postby rocbolt » Fri Jan 16, 2015 3:15 pm UTC

Uranium screws were used in the assembly of the core of the Fat Man nuclear bomb. All parts of the tamper were made of natural uranium, including the screws and hinges.

More info here can be found on the Nuclear Secrecy blog, entry titled The Fat Man’s uranium published November 10th, 2014, this forum won't let me link to it.

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Re: 1474: "Screws"

Postby orion205 » Fri Jan 16, 2015 3:23 pm UTC

RealGrouchy wrote:Lol, Randall does such a good job making you think he has an international view, but then you get something like this one which leaves out Robertson screws*, which are hands-down the best and most reliable type of screw head out there. They're square headed, but tapered, which leads to a very strong surface area, without the stripping common to hex heads (especially small hex holes on corroded bolts on bicycle parts that have been through a winter or two).

I recently had one gripped on so strong the interchangeable bit came out of the screwdriver before it came out of the screw!

- RG>

Eogan wrote:Meanwhile in Canada:

Image


Er, those are great if you know what the hell you're looking at. I had to reinstall the three screws that hold in my dryer drum after replacing the belt. I swear the screws looked like standard Phillips head. Well, not exactly standard, but close enough. I struggled and struggled and finally got them mostly tightened, but the drum never sat quite right. After a couple of years of living with it, I finally decided to re-install the drum correctly. I figured I had stripped those screws considering how much the Phillips head had been popping out of the screws. So I special ordered 3 new screws (for $15!). Then I had my Dad come over to help me hold the drum in place while I installed the new screws.

He took one look at the screws and said, "Oh. Square drive."

Oh. :oops: That had never occurred to me. So I looked in my Dewalt set of driver bits. It includes 8 square bits that I had never even noticed before. I picked the right size of square driver bit, and the screws I thought had been stripped Phillips head screws turned easily and confidently.

So, I felt foolish and wasted $15, but the dryer drum is snug now!

--orion205

ETA: Maybe they were really a Phillips/Square combo like this. I'll go with that so I don't feel quite so foolish...

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Re: 1474: "Screws"

Postby RicketyEng » Fri Jan 16, 2015 3:33 pm UTC

Yes, I feel slighted by the exclusion of Robertson.

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Re: 1474: "Screws"

Postby Yakk » Fri Jan 16, 2015 3:46 pm UTC

Eogan wrote:Meanwhile in Canada:

Image

Looks like a Robertson #2 to me. ;)

They really are nice. You can slot your driver into the drill, and the screw into the driver, and move the entire assembly around.

I guess the real problem with robertsons is you are more likely to shear the entire screw in two than strip the head. Those things are solid, and they don't slip out.
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Re: 1474: "Screws"

Postby orthogon » Fri Jan 16, 2015 4:34 pm UTC

messydesk wrote:Also omitted was the sonic-head screw.

Have an Internet ;-) Well, one of these can presumably be used on any of the other variants; was there a corresponding screw-head or was it just a general-purpose botching tool?
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Re: 1474: "Screws"

Postby rocbolt » Fri Jan 16, 2015 4:52 pm UTC

I'll try posting this again-

Actual uranium screws were used in the assembly of the Fat Man nuclear bomb. All parts of the tamper were made with natural uranium, including the screws and hinges. More info about the Fat Man assembly can be found in a the blog post titled "The Fat Man’s uranium" on the Nuclear Secrecy Blog by Alex Wellerstein from November 10th, 2014, as I am not permitted to post links.

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Re: 1474: "Screws"

Postby SinusPi » Fri Jan 16, 2015 5:03 pm UTC

I'm a bit disappointed by the hover message this time.

I was absolutely certain I'd find it being about the difference between a "cursed" head and a "hex" head. After all, decursing a Phillips head gets you a normal Phillips head you can unscrew, while casting "remove hex" on a hex head gets you, pretty much, a rivet... and then you're screwed.

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Re: 1474: "Screws"

Postby rmsgrey » Fri Jan 16, 2015 5:32 pm UTC

SinusPi wrote:I'm a bit disappointed by the hover message this time.

I was absolutely certain I'd find it being about the difference between a "cursed" head and a "hex" head. After all, decursing a Phillips head gets you a normal Phillips head you can unscrew, while casting "remove hex" on a hex head gets you, pretty much, a rivet... and then you're screwed.


Does that mean you can hex a rivet?

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Re: 1474: "Screws"

Postby Bad Andy » Fri Jan 16, 2015 5:53 pm UTC

I landed on this forum due to puzzlement over the uranium screw reference. I remain baffled.

In my little corner of the world, which is motorcycles, most of the cursing over Phillips fasteners revolves around the fact that the heads in question are JIS, not Phillips. Add to that ignorance the inevitable corrosion between the mating surfaces, maybe a little thread galling and debris in the head recesses and you have a recipe for living hell on earth.

A motorcyclist's best friend is a good quality set of JIS drivers and/or bits, and maybe an impact screwdriver. And some trash-picked dental tools to get the grime out of the recesses first.

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Re: 1474: "Screws"

Postby azule » Fri Jan 16, 2015 5:53 pm UTC

Neil_Boekend wrote:Usually with phillips and pozi a screw can be tightened with a size too small or a size too big, assuming you don't mind a bit of additional wear and tear on your screwdrivers.
I usually can't tell if it's the exact right size. My experience is that 99% of the time it's really, really close.

Coyoty wrote:Phillip heads:

Image
No no, that's a Robertson head. They're Canadian. And, actually, on the chart it's the "Uranium" head.

SinusPi wrote:I'm a bit disappointed by the hover message this time.

I was absolutely certain I'd find it being about the difference between a "cursed" head and a "hex" head. After all, decursing a Phillips head gets you a normal Phillips head you can unscrew, while casting "remove hex" on a hex head gets you, pretty much, a rivet... and then you're screwed.
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Re: 1474: "Screws"

Postby Envelope Generator » Fri Jan 16, 2015 6:03 pm UTC

This discussion makes me feel a little uncomfortable about the way in which, when buying screws or a screwdriver, I've just bought whatever looked right. Now I must obsess about standard sizes. I must measure the screwdrivers I own so that when I need to buy screws I don't have to worry about what size to buy or about buying screws for which I don't have the right size screwdriver because if that happens I must go back and buy the right size screwdriver to go with the screws I got. I must learn what the standard screw and screwdriver sizes and different head types are called in my language and whether hardware store clerks in these parts are even aware of those appellations and whether or not the clerk will look at me like I'm from Mars if I ask for a pozi[1] screwdriver in size 3.

When the smoke clears I may be too afraid to ever set foot in a hardware store again.


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Re: 1474: "Screws"

Postby addams » Fri Jan 16, 2015 6:14 pm UTC

What a funny comic.

This one speaks to the common man within.
Defeated by a rounded out screw head.

I have considered how Bad that is.
Then realized, "It's worse that that. It's a rivet."

It becomes time to give up gracefully or put the screwdriver away and get out a big fucking Hammer.
Spoiler:
Maybe, run over it with the car a few times.
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Re: 1474: "Screws"

Postby Bad Andy » Fri Jan 16, 2015 6:15 pm UTC

rocbolt wrote:Actual uranium screws were used in the assembly of the Fat Man nuclear bomb. All parts of the tamper were made with natural uranium, including the screws and hinges. More info about the Fat Man assembly can be found in a the blog post titled "The Fat Man’s uranium" on the Nuclear Secrecy Blog by Alex Wellerstein from November 10th, 2014, as I am not permitted to post links.

I easily found the article. But in the context of the strip, I see no evidence in the cite that those screws incorporated slotted heads. Am I too literal?

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Re: 1474: "Screws"

Postby O-Deka-K » Fri Jan 16, 2015 6:37 pm UTC

azule wrote:Those are the fucking worst! I had to take one out to fix my PS3. But, the bit is too short to make it from screwdriver to the screw. So I'm sitting there trying to shove it in the hole with only my fingers. Then, it's in, I THINK, and I gotta get pliers to rotate the screw. Slip, put back in, turn, slip, screw. Finally it comes out. *relief* I left the fucker out. I might replace it with a normal type screw someday.

I was annoyed the first time I saw a security torx too, and it was also on a PS3. The post in the middle of the screw head prevents you from using a regular torx screwdriver. I discovered that I could remove it quite easily with a regular flathead screwdriver that was just the right size. It wedged right in, and the "security" post actually kept the driver in place, which doesn't happen with a regular torx head. I laughed pretty hard at that one.

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Re: 1474: "Screws"

Postby Steve the Pocket » Fri Jan 16, 2015 6:42 pm UTC

Grahamf wrote:The only reason why it isn't used in the usa is licensing (Robertson was screwed over by a British company and so refuses to license now), as the advantages are many.

IMO refusing to sell or license a technology should be grounds for losing whatever patent protection you have on it and opening up the market to someone else making it instead. In either case, surely the patent has long since expired by now anyway, right?

Bad Andy wrote:
rocbolt wrote:Actual uranium screws were used in the assembly of the Fat Man nuclear bomb. All parts of the tamper were made with natural uranium, including the screws and hinges. More info about the Fat Man assembly can be found in a the blog post titled "The Fat Man’s uranium" on the Nuclear Secrecy Blog by Alex Wellerstein from November 10th, 2014, as I am not permitted to post links.

I easily found the article. But in the context of the strip, I see no evidence in the cite that those screws incorporated slotted heads. Am I too literal?

Given the time period, it seems like the most likely type.
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Re: 1474: "Screws"

Postby azule » Fri Jan 16, 2015 7:26 pm UTC

O-Deka-K wrote:I was annoyed the first time I saw a security torx too, and it was also on a PS3. The post in the middle of the screw head prevents you from using a regular torx screwdriver. I discovered that I could remove it quite easily with a regular flathead screwdriver that was just the right size. It wedged right in, and the "security" post actually kept the driver in place, which doesn't happen with a regular torx head. I laughed pretty hard at that one.
*grumble* I heard that was possible, but I didn't try. I mostly have bits not full fledged scewdrivers, so trying would mean I'd have to find those few that I have and hope for the right size.
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Re: 1474: "Screws"

Postby jeremylichtman » Fri Jan 16, 2015 7:26 pm UTC

Some old Chryslers (K-cars) had a custom 5-pointed star bolt to replace the headlights. For all I know, they still do.

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Re: 1474: "Screws"

Postby Bad Andy » Fri Jan 16, 2015 7:38 pm UTC

Steve the Pocket wrote:Given the time period, it seems like the most likely type.

The Phillips was invented a decade before the Fat Man.

Though it's all substantially before my time and I have no idea what was in use by military, defense, aeronautics, etc.

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Re: 1474: "Screws"

Postby keithl » Fri Jan 16, 2015 9:48 pm UTC

For fun, cast objects with indentations that look like screw heads, but are actually part of the same solid item. This is the mechanical equivalent of closed source software.

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Re: 1474: "Screws"

Postby Prophes0r » Fri Jan 16, 2015 10:20 pm UTC

I actually had to make an account to post here, because it has been over a day and "Some crazy guy" hasn't already posted to correct Randall.

Does that make me the crazy guy? Probably.

The screw drive labeled as "Phillips Head" is actually a Frearson. You can tell because it's inner corners are sharp. The inner corners of a Phillips are SUPPOSED to be rounded, because the Phillips was designed to have the driver cam out if too much torque is applied. Thats right. When that stupid driver slips out of the screw head, it is because it is SUPPOSED to.

More information (and a rather interesting read) can be found at:

Apparently I can't post a link...even using the URL tag? I guess you will have to search Wikipedia for List_of_screw_drives

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Re: 1474: "Screws"

Postby keithl » Fri Jan 16, 2015 10:35 pm UTC

Screw heads are part of the variation, the thread pitch and depth and angles can add to the fun. The world has converged on two standard thread systems (UTS/inch and ISO/metric), but there were dozens at one time, and a really old piece of equipment may have threaded holes that match no modern screws. Drill out and retap for modern screws, to hell with antique authenticity.

Modern screw threads are made by rolling blanks under pressure between arrays of parallel blade edges. REALLY old screw threads were handmade from bar stock, by skilled craftsmen with files, no two alike.

The first big step towards standard, precise, automated production was made by my personal favorite hero Henry Maudslay, inventor of the precision screw cutting lathe. He started with a hand-filed screw as the lead screw of his lathe, and used mechanical signal averaging to produce the next, more uniform lead screw. Rinse and repeat. Eventually, Maudslay made smooth, accurate, precisely repeatable screws, pitch determined by gear or pulley ratios. Screws accurate enough to build the first micrometers, and ruling engines that produced the first accurate rulers. Ultimately, precise screws for the ruling engines that replicated transfer standards for the first meter.

With precision measurement and transfer standards, the whole world can agree on thread standards in particular, interchangable parts from manufacturers in different countries in general. Boeing sends CAD files to suppliers, then assembles huge aircraft from parts sourced around the world, mating huge surfaces to accuracies of tens of micrometers. Half a century ago, shims added a significant fraction to an aircraft's weight.

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Re: 1474: "Screws"

Postby RogueCynic » Sat Jan 17, 2015 4:08 am UTC

I prefer the Arthur's head screw. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fp14jarnTP0
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Re: 1474: "Screws"

Postby addams » Sat Jan 17, 2015 5:54 am UTC

RogueCynic wrote:I prefer the Arthur's head screw. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fp14jarnTP0

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Re: 1474: "Screws"

Postby Wildcard » Sat Jan 17, 2015 7:28 am UTC

jgh wrote:Aren't they all just crinkle-cut nails?

Yeah, basically. I like my fries straight cut and my nails crinkle-cut. :lol:

SinusPi wrote:Decursing a Phillips head gets you a normal Phillips head you can unscrew, while casting "remove hex" on a hex head gets you, pretty much, a rivet... and then you're screwed.

Awesome. +1
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Re: 1474: "Screws"

Postby Eternal Density » Sat Jan 17, 2015 8:20 am UTC

azule wrote:
Envelope Generator wrote:Is this referring to a particular Phillip?
The Phillip of Phillips head screws. He invented this sex position in the 1970's. You insert and slowly rotate the rod. Because of the rotating, only the head stays inserted. It's not that pleasurable for the woman, but it is fun to watch on video.

:azule:
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Re: 1474: "Screws"

Postby rpresser » Sat Jan 17, 2015 9:15 am UTC

Actual uranium screws -- i.e., screws actually composed of non-enriched uranium -- were used in the construction of nuclear weapons during the twentieth century. See http://blog.nuclearsecrecy.com/2014/11/ ... s-uranium/ and other links from http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/1474:_Screws

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Re: 1474: "Screws"

Postby Klear » Sat Jan 17, 2015 11:46 am UTC

RogueCynic wrote:I prefer the Arthur's head screw. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fp14jarnTP0


I prefer Arthur the screwhead. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hx3Bz6cIPiw

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Re: 1474: "Screws"

Postby x7eggert » Sat Jan 17, 2015 5:51 pm UTC

Wildcard wrote:One of the most secure screw types I've seen is in the center of the top row of (quoting the link not allowed, see original posting for URL). Can't comment on ease of use/lack of stripping risk because I've never actually put them in or out myself, but they damn sure can't be removed without the right bit.

Looks like a flat head screwdriver will fit nicely. BTDT with the torx+middle-pin screws.

Also I use a tilted flat screwdriver as a rectangular bit to remove hex screws, if they aren't too tight (most are).

cellocgw wrote:Randall's been ninja'd by at least 50 years here. When I first joined a "big company," one of the mech engineers gave me a cheatsheet with pictures of a couple dozen screw types. It included screws with two heads for holes that were drilled wrong and then fixed, screws with heads at an angle to the shaft for holes that were drilled off-vertical, etc etc.

I bet this sheet is posted somewhere on the intertubes but just as the whatif guy was too lazy to go to the bowling alley for his mass data, I'm too lazy to search for it.


A lot of non-usual screw types:
://etel-tuning.eu/20-sonderschrauben

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Re: 1474: "Screws"

Postby azule » Sat Jan 17, 2015 6:28 pm UTC

Eternal Density wrote:
azule wrote:
Envelope Generator wrote:Is this referring to a particular Phillip?
The Phillip of Phillips head screws. He invented this sex position in the 1970's. You insert and slowly rotate the rod. Because of the rotating, only the head stays inserted. It's not that pleasurable for the woman, but it is fun to watch on video.

:azule:
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Fridge logic. A screwdriver! Apparently I need to drink more.
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Re: 1474: "Screws"

Postby barasawa » Sat Jan 17, 2015 7:48 pm UTC

Don't forget Posilock, Torx, Square, and Tri-lobe.
Posilock seems to be popular with British stuff, I know someone that collects British cars so had to learn about that one.
Tri-lobe is often found on electronics they don't want you to ever get into, like nintendo gear. (I hear they are now using a new more obscure one to keep people out, but I haven't checked.)

I'm sure there are others to drive us insane with, but I haven't had to lose hair over those yet. :P

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Re: 1474: "Screws"

Postby Whitekiboko » Sun Jan 18, 2015 1:36 am UTC

Coyoty wrote:Phillip's head also looks like it's cursed.

Terrence and Phillip heads:

Image


Aren't they called Kraft Dinner Heads up there?

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Re: 1474: "Screws"

Postby IllvilJa » Sun Jan 18, 2015 8:25 pm UTC

Whizbang wrote:
cellocgw wrote:I bet this sheet is posted somewhere on the intertubes but just as the whatif guy was too lazy to go to the bowling alley for his mass data, I'm too lazy to search for it.


What the hell, Google image search? I put in the key words "screw head chart two headed screw funny" and the 20th image was a dog with an arrow through it's head. WTF, I didn't need to see that this morning.


Then I strongly discourage you from doing any google search for images of "uranium screw" (I did as I got curious about those screws). A glimpse on the search result was enough to realize that there were a few horrifying images in there depicting the effect radiation have on children before they are born. NO, I did not click on the thumbnails, as those were enough for nightmares by themselves. And NO, I won't redo that image search.

Poor children. Really awful and tragic thing that happened to them.

On Topic: Uranium screws would be perfect for a hammer, wouldn't they? You get them swiftly in place, and it will be exciting as well!

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Re: 1474: "Screws"

Postby addams » Sun Jan 18, 2015 11:36 pm UTC

That's not the way Uranium is Triggered.

You can smack Uranium with a hammer all day long,
All you will get is tired.

There are some salts that will Blow when struck.
You can make The Final Nail out of that stuff.

New Game!
Construction Roulette.

Every one million nails packaged will have One.
Who will be the....news worthy soul, today?

What?
Are those odds not good enough?

One in a Billion?
Spoiler:
Feasible? Yes.
Worthy serious consideration? No.
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Re: 1474: "Screws"

Postby KittenKaboodle » Mon Jan 19, 2015 12:40 am UTC

I'll just leave this here, here's a Neji-saurs GT video too.
I have a pair, they have worked well the few times I've used them, but as they are a bit expensive and I'm worried about wearing out the serrations only use them as a last resort (if I even remember I have them)

waja
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2015 12:45 am UTC

Re: 1474: "Screws"

Postby waja » Mon Jan 19, 2015 12:51 am UTC

The polite nation of Canada would like to ask Mr. Munroe to please include the Robertson head next time. They're quite good you know.


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