1500: Upside-Down Map

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1500: Upside-Down Map

Postby Patteroast » Wed Mar 18, 2015 8:13 am UTC

Image
Title: "Due to their proximity across the channel, there's long been tension between North Korea and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Southern Ireland."

Being a huge geography nerd, this map makes me twitch uncomfortably and make pained sounds.

ETA: Also, wow, comic 1500!

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Re: 1500: Upside-Down Map

Postby keithl » Wed Mar 18, 2015 8:20 am UTC

If you do not rotate your continents every 100 million years, they wear unevenly, and skid on the mantle during ice ages.

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Re: 1500: Upside-Down Map

Postby Diddleydoo » Wed Mar 18, 2015 8:24 am UTC

"United Kingdom of Great Britain and Southern Ireland"?

Normally it's either United Kingdom OR Great Britain but the real reason why I'm posting is that "Southern Ireland" is actually "Republic of Ireland" or "Ireland".

In fact the constitution of the country names "Ireland" as it's official name. The connotation "southern Ireland" makes it sound subservient to Britain which, due to the real and long-lasting tensions between the countries and the eventual liberation of the country nearly 100 years ago, is not a good thing.

The correct term is "Great Britain and Ireland". Great Britain includes England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland.

On a side note meteorologists still refer to the entire island group as "the British isles" which gets me enraged no end. At least I am grateful that THIS phrase was not used.

And all this on the day after Patrick's day..... :cry:

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Re: 1500: Upside-Down Map

Postby bachaddict » Wed Mar 18, 2015 8:26 am UTC

New Zealand's islands fit quite well this way.
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Re: 1500: Upside-Down Map

Postby Kozmo » Wed Mar 18, 2015 8:31 am UTC

So every connected piece of land is inverted, right? But there seems to be some shifting around as well, e.g. Cuba or Madagascar... Is this simply to avoid overlapping land, or is there some logic I'm missing?

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Re: 1500: Upside-Down Map

Postby Diddleydoo » Wed Mar 18, 2015 8:33 am UTC

On a clarification to my earlier post.

If indeed you are referring to "southern Ireland" as "northern Ireland" having been rotated, this is also incorrect since the terms "United Kingdom" and "Great Britain" both already include "northern (southern) Ireland".

The fact that many actually refer to "Ireland" as "southern Ireland" is a constant point of annoyance to me and many others from the country.

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Re: 1500: Upside-Down Map

Postby rhomboidal » Wed Mar 18, 2015 8:35 am UTC

Hehe, now America has a boner!

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Re: 1500: Upside-Down Map

Postby prasun » Wed Mar 18, 2015 8:54 am UTC

This reminds me of the programming interview question where you have to reverse every word in a sentence.

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Re: 1500: Upside-Down Map

Postby svenman » Wed Mar 18, 2015 8:58 am UTC

Kozmo wrote:So every connected piece of land is inverted, right? But there seems to be some shifting around as well, e.g. Cuba or Madagascar... Is this simply to avoid overlapping land, or is there some logic I'm missing?

As far as I can tell, every land mass big enough to show on the map has been rotated more or less in place by 180 degrees (with the Americas having been split at Panama and Africa from Eurasia at the Suez Canal Egyptian border), but islands were if necessary shifted around to preserve their distances from neighbouring land masses as much as possible.

It didn't work out between Iceland and Greenland though. I think Randall ended up placing Iceland way too close to Great Britain - about equidistant from Great Britain and Greenland would have been better, closer to Greenland would put Iceland too far west and/or Greenland too far away from North America. But anyway it wouldn't have been possible to preserve all of the distances between the European continent, Great Britain, Iceland, Greenland and the North American continent.

(Edit: location of Africa-Eurasia split corrected)
Last edited by svenman on Thu Mar 19, 2015 6:41 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 1500: Upside-Down Map

Postby dms33 » Wed Mar 18, 2015 9:00 am UTC

Kozmo wrote:So every connected piece of land is inverted, right? But there seems to be some shifting around as well, e.g. Cuba or Madagascar... Is this simply to avoid overlapping land, or is there some logic I'm missing?

More than just inverted. Rotated 180%.

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Re: 1500: Upside-Down Map

Postby gaborl » Wed Mar 18, 2015 9:59 am UTC

Shouldn't North Korea be relabelled as South Korea?

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Re: 1500: Upside-Down Map

Postby orthogon » Wed Mar 18, 2015 10:04 am UTC

dms33 wrote:
Kozmo wrote:So every connected piece of land is inverted, right? But there seems to be some shifting around as well, e.g. Cuba or Madagascar... Is this simply to avoid overlapping land, or is there some logic I'm missing?

More than just inverted. Rotated 180%.

If you don't mind me saying, it's a wonderfully geeky view of the world to assume that "invert" means "flipped vertically", which I guess is what you're getting at. Only in mathematical/computer graphics terms is a vertical flip a more basic operation than a 180 degree rotation. In the real world, if you ask me to invert my coffee cup, I'll rotate it by 180 degrees1, a vertical flip being hard to achieve without Alician powers of trans-specular transit.

1Probably without checking that it's empty first. You should see the stains on the carpet in my office...
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Re: 1500: Upside-Down Map

Postby Klear » Wed Mar 18, 2015 10:36 am UTC

I feel like I don't get this. I find a normal map rotated as a whole a much more powerful perspective-changing experience. I'm guessing this is sort of a troll attempt, trying to confuse people until they notice the landmasses are shifted around?

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Re: 1500: Upside-Down Map

Postby Angua » Wed Mar 18, 2015 10:46 am UTC

Diddleydoo wrote:"United Kingdom of Great Britain and Southern Ireland"?

Normally it's either United Kingdom OR Great Britain but the real reason why I'm posting is that "Southern Ireland" is actually "Republic of Ireland" or "Ireland".

In fact the constitution of the country names "Ireland" as it's official name. The connotation "southern Ireland" makes it sound subservient to Britain which, due to the real and long-lasting tensions between the countries and the eventual liberation of the country nearly 100 years ago, is not a good thing.

The correct term is "Great Britain and Ireland". Great Britain includes England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland.

On a side note meteorologists still refer to the entire island group as "the British isles" which gets me enraged no end. At least I am grateful that THIS phrase was not used.

And all this on the day after Patrick's day..... :cry:
It's an upside down map. He meant northern Ireland. .. but it's upside down so in the south.
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Re: 1500: Upside-Down Map

Postby Kozmo » Wed Mar 18, 2015 11:10 am UTC

orthogon wrote:
dms33 wrote:
Kozmo wrote:So every connected piece of land is inverted, right? But there seems to be some shifting around as well, e.g. Cuba or Madagascar... Is this simply to avoid overlapping land, or is there some logic I'm missing?

More than just inverted. Rotated 180%.

If you don't mind me saying, it's a wonderfully geeky view of the world to assume that "invert" means "flipped vertically", which I guess is what you're getting at. Only in mathematical/computer graphics terms is a vertical flip a more basic operation than a 180 degree rotation. In the real world, if you ask me to invert my coffee cup, I'll rotate it by 180 degrees1, a vertical flip being hard to achieve without Alician powers of trans-specular transit.

1Probably without checking that it's empty first. You should see the stains on the carpet in my office...


That's quite funny, my reason for calling a pi-rotation "inversion" is also quite geeky - but coming from Physics. Inversion there always refers to r -> -r, with r the position vector.

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Re: 1500: Upside-Down Map

Postby WibblyWobbly » Wed Mar 18, 2015 11:14 am UTC

Diddleydoo wrote:On a clarification to my earlier post.

If indeed you are referring to "southern Ireland" as "northern Ireland" having been rotated, this is also incorrect since the terms "United Kingdom" and "Great Britain" both already include "northern (southern) Ireland".

No, they don't. Well, at least Great Britain doesn't, as Great Britain is defined as the island that contains England, Scotland and Wales. And "United Kingdom" only contains Northern Ireland (capitalize both to show it is a specific political entity) because it's the shortened form of "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland".

So yes, I'm fairly certain "southern Ireland" was a reference to what happens to Northern Ireland when the island of Ireland is rotated, and not some disparaging reference to the republic of Ireland, which is, of course, a separate political entity.

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Re: 1500: Upside-Down Map

Postby rchard2scout » Wed Mar 18, 2015 11:20 am UTC

Diddleydoo wrote:Great Britain includes England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland.


No, Great Britain is a geographical term, it's the name of the biggest island among the British Isles (the one that has England, Scotland and Wales). The name of the country is fully the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, and it contains the countries of England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.

The island of Ireland (the second biggest island of the British Isles) has on it two countries: Northern Ireland (part of the United Kingdom) and the Republic of Ireland.

The British Isles are the collection of islands consisting of Great Britain, Ireland, the Isle of Wight, the Isles of Scilly and Lundy, the Isle of Anglesey, the Hebrides, the Shetland Islands, the Orkney Islands, and the Islands of the Clyde.

For a full (and clearer) explanation, I'll refer you to CGP Grey.

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Re: 1500: Upside-Down Map

Postby Blake'sTiger » Wed Mar 18, 2015 11:21 am UTC

Diddleydoo wrote:On a clarification to my earlier post.

If indeed you are referring to "southern Ireland" as "northern Ireland" having been rotated, this is also incorrect since the terms "United Kingdom" and "Great Britain" both already include "northern (southern) Ireland".


This is incorrect. The term Great Britain refers to the island of Great Britain, whose borders are geographical, rather than political. The only way for it to include Northern Ireland would be to detach Norther Ireland from the island where it currently resides, and staple it to Scotland.

The term United Kingdom does in fact refer to the entire political entity, but it's a shortened form, much the same as "The United States." The long form is in fact "The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland." Since the map is upside-down...ish, what was Northern Ireland is now in the south, hence, "The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Southern Ireland."

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Re: 1500: Upside-Down Map

Postby Xenomortis » Wed Mar 18, 2015 11:32 am UTC

Blake'sTiger wrote:This is incorrect. The term Great Britain refers to the island of Great Britain, whose borders are geographical, rather than political. The only way for it to include Northern Ireland would be to detach Norther Ireland from the island where it currently resides, and staple it to Scotland.

And any islands would have to be attached too.
Northern Ireland doesn't have many, but Scotland has loads.

Obviously to be accurate, the UK should be called "The United Kingdom of England, Scotland, Wales, And Northern Ireland", possibly stealing the spot for "longest country name in English".
Image

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Re: 1500: Upside-Down Map

Postby Envelope Generator » Wed Mar 18, 2015 11:36 am UTC

Klear wrote: I find a normal map rotated as a whole a much more powerful perspective-changing experience.


From a vantage point in the year 2015 I would find that one quite exhausted of power to change anyone's perspective. It took me about ten seconds to realise that's not what I was looking at when I saw this strip...
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Re: 1500: Upside-Down Map

Postby orthogon » Wed Mar 18, 2015 11:43 am UTC

Kozmo wrote:That's quite funny, my reason for calling a pi-rotation "inversion" is also quite geeky - but coming from Physics. Inversion there always refers to r -> -r, with r the position vector.

Good point. Treating the vector as an entity, pi-rotation is much more basic than reflection in a plane, which is something like r'=r-2(r.n)n. It's only when you're dealing with the components individually (e.g. in a computer program) that a reflection is simpler, and then only if the reflection is parallel to one of the axes.
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Re: 1500: Upside-Down Map

Postby Duban » Wed Mar 18, 2015 12:04 pm UTC

Diddleydoo wrote:"United Kingdom of Great Britain and Southern Ireland"?

Normally it's either United Kingdom OR Great Britain but the real reason why I'm posting is that "Southern Ireland" is actually "Republic of Ireland" or "Ireland".

In fact the constitution of the country names "Ireland" as it's official name. The connotation "southern Ireland" makes it sound subservient to Britain which, due to the real and long-lasting tensions between the countries and the eventual liberation of the country nearly 100 years ago, is not a good thing.

The correct term is "Great Britain and Ireland". Great Britain includes England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland.

On a side note meteorologists still refer to the entire island group as "the British isles" which gets me enraged no end. At least I am grateful that THIS phrase was not used.

And all this on the day after Patrick's day..... :cry:



Except north and south are switched on this map. When he refers to "Southern Ireland" he's referring to what would normally be Northern Ireland.
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Re: 1500: Upside-Down Map

Postby Djehutynakht » Wed Mar 18, 2015 12:20 pm UTC

It took me a second and now it's screwing with me.

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Re: 1500: Upside-Down Map

Postby Polixenes » Wed Mar 18, 2015 12:24 pm UTC

What if....the map had always been this shape?
What if....everything miraculously moved instantaneously and non-violently into this configuration? (I think World War III would start shortly thereafter).

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Re: 1500: Upside-Down Map

Postby mathmannix » Wed Mar 18, 2015 12:33 pm UTC

I can't look at the map without getting a headache. I copied and pasted it into Paint and rotated 180 degrees, though, and that helped a little bit.

Coupla things... first, where's Antarctica? I mean, I guess it would be awkward to draw, because the "South Pole" would be the northern "limit" of the continent, while the extremities of the peninsula, Queen Maud Land, etc. would have to merge at the bottom. But I would be interested to see what RM came up with.

Second, there's no need for a Panama or Suez canal anymore.

Third, Canada and Russia make out quite well. I assume they only get away IRL with having so much land is that they are largely unpopulatable. But now their southern coasts would be prime real estate. Other smaller countries which used to be near-equatorial, on the other hand... Central America, southeast Asia... they got the short end of the stick. As tiny polar nations, they will soon cease to exist. I suppose Malaysia is now far divided, and Singapore is still equatorial, but now off the southern coast of ... what, Norway? This is weird.
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Re: 1500: Upside-Down Map

Postby Lepton » Wed Mar 18, 2015 12:37 pm UTC

So, besides its economic hardships, Greece now has its mainland beaches on the Arctic ocean and its islands presumably 7,500 km away in the Indian ocean. Thanks, you insensitive perspectiver you! :x

Though I guess the Italians will be thrilled about finally parting with Sicily . :P

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Re: 1500: Upside-Down Map

Postby Boson Collider » Wed Mar 18, 2015 12:50 pm UTC

I find your lack of antarctica disturbing.

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Re: 1500: Upside-Down Map

Postby Jackpot777 » Wed Mar 18, 2015 12:57 pm UTC

Angua wrote:
Diddleydoo wrote:"United Kingdom of Great Britain and Southern Ireland"?

Normally it's either United Kingdom OR Great Britain but the real reason why I'm posting is that "Southern Ireland" is actually "Republic of Ireland" or "Ireland".

In fact the constitution of the country names "Ireland" as it's official name. The connotation "southern Ireland" makes it sound subservient to Britain which, due to the real and long-lasting tensions between the countries and the eventual liberation of the country nearly 100 years ago, is not a good thing.

The correct term is "Great Britain and Ireland". Great Britain includes England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland.

On a side note meteorologists still refer to the entire island group as "the British isles" which gets me enraged no end. At least I am grateful that THIS phrase was not used.

And all this on the day after Patrick's day..... :cry:
It's an upside down map. He meant northern Ireland. .. but it's upside down so in the south.


If it helps: the six counties of Ireland that are still part of the UK are also known as Ulster, and the Republic of Ireland is Eire. Ulster is now Southern Ireland, Eire is still Ireland.

Oddly enough, the most northerly part of Eire is further north than the most northerly part of Ulster. So all of Northern Ireland is south of part of its southern neighbor. Flipping the map would just reverse the north-south parts of the names and will still be a WTF moment.

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Re: 1500: Upside-Down Map

Postby mathmannix » Wed Mar 18, 2015 12:59 pm UTC

Oh, and I guess the Florida keys (and Rickenbacker Causeway) now stretch from Alaska to Argentina. (And the Aleutians now stretch southwest from Nicaragua.)
Last edited by mathmannix on Wed Mar 18, 2015 1:00 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 1500: Upside-Down Map

Postby Jackpot777 » Wed Mar 18, 2015 1:00 pm UTC

Polixenes wrote:What if....the map had always been this shape?
What if....everything miraculously moved instantaneously and non-violently into this configuration? (I think World War III would start shortly thereafter).


Britain is now a lot closer to Hong Kong. I see that as the flashpoint.

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Re: 1500: Upside-Down Map

Postby Jackpot777 » Wed Mar 18, 2015 1:01 pm UTC

Boson Collider wrote:I find your lack of antarctica disturbing.


You mean Arctica? No, wait, that would only happen if the whole map was simply rotated 180 degrees.

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Re: 1500: Upside-Down Map

Postby Jackpot777 » Wed Mar 18, 2015 1:08 pm UTC

This needs to be posted.

Image

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Re: 1500: Upside-Down Map

Postby speising » Wed Mar 18, 2015 1:16 pm UTC

i find this clear image helpful:
Image

especially the hilarious difference between "British Islands" and "British Isles".
Last edited by speising on Thu Mar 19, 2015 3:12 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 1500: Upside-Down Map

Postby orthogon » Wed Mar 18, 2015 1:18 pm UTC

Jackpot777 wrote:If it helps: the six counties of Ireland that are still part of the UK are also known as Ulster, and the Republic of Ireland is Eire. Ulster is now Southern Ireland, Eire is still Ireland.

Even that's not quite right. The province of Ulster is made up of nine counties, including the six counties of Northern Ireland plus three counties that are part of the Republic. I believe that the Ulster rugby union team draws on all nine counties. See the spoilered map below.
Spoiler:
Image
As for Éire, I believe that's the Irish language name for it, so using it in English is arguably a bit like saying "I'm going on a business trip to Deutschland".

ETA: So actually the most northern part of Ulster is indeed the most northern part of the island of Ireland, but is not part of Northern Ireland.
ETA2: I should say in fairness to Jackpot777 that "Ulster" is indeed often used interchangeably with "Northern Ireland".
xtifr wrote:... and orthogon merely sounds undecided.

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Re: 1500: Upside-Down Map

Postby cntrational » Wed Mar 18, 2015 1:32 pm UTC

Boson Collider wrote:I find your lack of antarctica disturbing.

Would've been funny to see a perfectly circular continent with a janky sea in the middle.

orthogon wrote:As for Éire, I believe that's the Irish language name for it, so using it in English is arguably a bit like saying "I'm going on a business trip to Deutschland".
There's precedent for using it in English, though -- shortly after the Republic of Ireland was formed, there was some dispute over what the country should be called in English, with some favoring the use of "Éire", and some in favor of retaining the usual English term. The latter group won in the long run, but you can still see "Éire" used by some organizations and in some laws.

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Re: 1500: Upside-Down Map

Postby moody7277 » Wed Mar 18, 2015 2:07 pm UTC

To me it looks like the Malay Peninsula should wrap over the north pole and connect with the Isthmus of Panama. Boom, Northwest Passage.
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Re: 1500: Upside-Down Map

Postby Sombrero Cat » Wed Mar 18, 2015 2:10 pm UTC

A Mercator projection would distort land mass, greatest at the poles. Greenland es muy grande. Mexico would have more projection to grow those tasty avocados!

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Re: 1500: Upside-Down Map

Postby Boegiboe » Wed Mar 18, 2015 2:13 pm UTC

I love that Taiwan is across La Manche from France. Think what a heavenly world of cuisine we'd live in if that were true!

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Re: 1500: Upside-Down Map

Postby The Devils Engineer » Wed Mar 18, 2015 2:23 pm UTC

This Upside-Down Map Will Change Your Perspective On The World!

"I Do Not Think It Means What You Think It Means” - Inigo Montoya :)

......I laughed out loud when I saw this map......nice one Mr. Randall....nice one.....

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Re: 1500: Upside-Down Map

Postby Mokurai » Wed Mar 18, 2015 2:36 pm UTC

Diddleydoo wrote:"United Kingdom of Great Britain and Southern Ireland"?

Normally it's either United Kingdom OR Great Britain but the real reason why I'm posting is that "Southern Ireland" is actually "Republic of Ireland" or "Ireland".

In fact the constitution of the country names "Ireland" as it's official name. The connotation "southern Ireland" makes it sound subservient to Britain which, due to the real and long-lasting tensions between the countries and the eventual liberation of the country nearly 100 years ago, is not a good thing.

The correct term is "Great Britain and Ireland". Great Britain includes England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland.


Um, no, the correct name before the rotation was "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland", but now that part of Ireland (Ulster) is to the south of Eire, the Republic of Ireland. But this is Ireland we are talking about, that is, Ire-Land. They always have something to be irate about. (I'm a Reilly on my mother's side.)

Many in England, however, are delighted to be no longer anywhere near Europe, and have not yet had time to start worrying about being so near West Asia. Similarly, the South African Arab countries and the rest of the Middle West is furious at being in the Antarctic and Arctic, respectively, and is blaming it on Israel.


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