1534: "Beer"

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Kit.
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Re: 1534: "Beer"

Postby Kit. » Sun Jun 07, 2015 7:36 pm UTC

WontonSoup wrote:The amount of people in here getting upset that someone DOESN'T like beer is hilarious.

"In here?"

Can you name at least one such person "in here"? Or are you suggesting that zero is a hilarious amount?

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Re: 1534: "Beer"

Postby Shale » Sun Jun 07, 2015 8:12 pm UTC

Well, it's exactly as funny as the comic.

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Re: 1534: "Beer"

Postby commodorejohn » Sun Jun 07, 2015 9:27 pm UTC

Copper Bezel wrote:Combined with the fact that your own suite of psychosomatic effects are likely to be different, sure.

But yes, there are most certainly behavioral effects, which differ in kind and in degree between individuals. Almost everyone experiences some reduction of inhibition and anxiety, though, because, you know, downers do that, in the same way that coffee makes most people either 1) more alert or 2) jittery or uncomfortable.

It's a drug. It's not magic that requires a special explanation. If you feel that you're exceptionally and unusually special, I don't have a compelling argument otherwise.

Hah, I'd like to know where you got the notion that thinking at least some of "drunkenness" is psychosomatic equals thinking I'm "special." I just didn't grow up in an environment where I felt that kind of conditioning/peer pressure, is all.
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Re: 1534: "Beer"

Postby dg61 » Sun Jun 07, 2015 10:38 pm UTC

commodorejohn wrote:
Copper Bezel wrote:Combined with the fact that your own suite of psychosomatic effects are likely to be different, sure.

But yes, there are most certainly behavioral effects, which differ in kind and in degree between individuals. Almost everyone experiences some reduction of inhibition and anxiety, though, because, you know, downers do that, in the same way that coffee makes most people either 1) more alert or 2) jittery or uncomfortable.

It's a drug. It's not magic that requires a special explanation. If you feel that you're exceptionally and unusually special, I don't have a compelling argument otherwise.

Hah, I'd like to know where you got the notion that thinking at least some of "drunkenness" is psychosomatic equals thinking I'm "special." I just didn't grow up in an environment where I felt that kind of conditioning/peer pressure, is all.


I mean, it's a mood-altering drug so some behavioral effects are to be expected but it is possible that how those behavioral effects play out is affected by the mileu in which one drinks and it is well-known that people can have widely varying tolerances to alcohol depending on age, gender, genetics, ethnicity, previous drinking habits, and so on.

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Re: 1534: "Beer"

Postby LordHorst » Mon Jun 08, 2015 6:35 am UTC

Quercus wrote:
LordHorst wrote:Even worse: If you have to wait in a restaurant to get seated... what do they offer you? Sparkling wine! And nothing else!

That must be a location-specific thing. On the rare occasions I've been offered a drink on the house because I had to wait it's always been a drink of my choice.


I cleary go to the wrong restaurants then. :(

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Re: 1534: "Beer"

Postby CharlieP » Mon Jun 08, 2015 9:10 am UTC

My "enjoyment" of beer ranges from "I couldn't imagine drinking anything better than this right now" to "I couldn't bear to drink another mouthful of this". That usually describes different types of beer, but could just as easily apply to the same brand drunk on different days. Obviously draught beer can be "off", or pipes not cleaned, and canned or bottled beer can go past its best by date, but my palate also seems to depend on all kinds of things from the temperature and humidity to my level of hydration and what I've been eating. If I drank beer with any real regularity I would probably have enough empirical data to work out what I actually do and don't like in the long term, but I don't.
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Re: 1534: "Beer"

Postby petz » Mon Jun 08, 2015 9:19 am UTC

LordHorst wrote: I didn't start drinking beer or anything that cointains alcohol until I was about 20 (which is quite late, since legal drinking age for beer is 16 where I come from ;) ). I just chose not to drink it and my friends accepted it.


I had the same experience. Started drinking alcohol (moderately) at age 27 (legal drinking age 16) and now I like it, but still don't feel the need to.

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Re: 1534: "Beer"

Postby CharlieP » Mon Jun 08, 2015 10:38 am UTC

Surely you both mean legal purchasing age, not legal *drinking* age? I was certainly allowed to drink at home under supervision when I was in my teens - generally just a glass of wine with meals special enough to merit the dining room rather than kitchen table, or a can or two of beer with a family barbecue.
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Re: 1534: "Beer"

Postby Shale » Mon Jun 08, 2015 11:32 am UTC

Usually legal purchasing age and legal drinking age are the same; I know in the US providing a minor with alcohol, family or not, can be punishable with jail time.

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Re: 1534: "Beer"

Postby orthogon » Mon Jun 08, 2015 11:39 am UTC

It's quite complex in the UK, but there's a very significant difference between buying and drinking: You have to be 18 to buy it, but 16-17 year olds can drink alcohol with a meal in a pub if accompanied by an adult, and you are allowed to drink alcohol at home from the age of five!

EDIT: added detail for 16-17yo
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Re: 1534: "Beer"

Postby HES » Mon Jun 08, 2015 12:01 pm UTC

Shale wrote:Usually legal purchasing age and legal drinking age are the same; I know in the US providing a minor with alcohol, family or not, can be punishable with jail time.

Even communion wine?

orthogon wrote:you are allowed to drink alcohol at home from the age of five!

Yes, and growing up I was regularly offered small quantities of things at family events. Allowing a child to get drunk, however, almost certainly counts as neglect and/or abuse.
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Re: 1534: "Beer"

Postby orthogon » Mon Jun 08, 2015 12:44 pm UTC

HES wrote:
Shale wrote:Usually legal purchasing age and legal drinking age are the same; I know in the US providing a minor with alcohol, family or not, can be punishable with jail time.

Even communion wine?

I understand that falls under the same exemption as child sex abuse.
HES wrote:
orthogon wrote:you are allowed to drink alcohol at home from the age of five!

Yes, and growing up I was regularly offered small quantities of things at family events. Allowing a child to get drunk, however, almost certainly counts as neglect and/or abuse.

Me too, though I can't remember what age I started having wine with Sunday lunch. Five seems a bit on the young side, though.
xtifr wrote:... and orthogon merely sounds undecided.

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Re: 1534: "Beer"

Postby armandoalvarez » Mon Jun 08, 2015 1:17 pm UTC

Shale wrote:Usually legal purchasing age and legal drinking age are the same; I know in the US providing a minor with alcohol, family or not, can be punishable with jail time.

As with nearly every law in the U.S., it depends on the state.

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Re: 1534: "Beer"

Postby Quizatzhaderac » Mon Jun 08, 2015 1:26 pm UTC

Shale wrote:Usually legal purchasing age and legal drinking age are the same; I know in the US providing a minor with alcohol, family or not, can be punishable with jail time.
That may be true in some specific states, but none of the three I've lived in. In general, a minor drinking requires their guardian's supervision. However, this tends to be much rarer than other countries and most people will never drink as minors with their parents.

As for communion wine: that's a religious exception and the law basically doesn't apply.
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Re: 1534: "Beer"

Postby phas » Mon Jun 08, 2015 1:28 pm UTC

One of the few funny things about being an italian is that when you see people from other countries arguing about food, you always think "what in the world are these barbarians saying?"


p.s. barbarian is ironic of course, a pun to roman empire, no insult intended

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Re: 1534: "Beer"

Postby CharlieP » Mon Jun 08, 2015 1:56 pm UTC

phas wrote:One of the few funny things about being an italian is that when you see people from other countries arguing about food, you always think "what in the world are these barbarians saying?"


A couple of years ago I spent a few nights on a lovely Thai island in a quiet (almost private) resort run by an Italian couple. For dinner one night they suggested "pizza", and invited our choices of toppings. One of my travelling companions innocently asked for a "Hawaiian", which was met with baffled looks. When she described its composition, the ham was agreeable, but the word "pineapple" was met by amazement, indignation and a quick, terse "No".
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Re: 1534: "Beer"

Postby Quercus » Mon Jun 08, 2015 2:06 pm UTC

CharlieP wrote:
phas wrote:One of the few funny things about being an italian is that when you see people from other countries arguing about food, you always think "what in the world are these barbarians saying?"


A couple of years ago I spent a few nights on a lovely Thai island in a quiet (almost private) resort run by an Italian couple. For dinner one night they suggested "pizza", and invited our choices of toppings. One of my travelling companions innocently asked for a "Hawaiian", which was met with baffled looks. When she described its composition, the ham was agreeable, but the word "pineapple" was met by amazement, indignation and a quick, terse "No".


I happen to think that pineapple on pizza is delicious, but I also know enough Italians to know never to suggest the idea to one, except as a joke. In my experience it is usually viewed less as a disagreeable idea and more as a total non-sequitur , like suggesting that you would like a pizza topped with seawater.

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Re: 1534: "Beer"

Postby Quizatzhaderac » Mon Jun 08, 2015 2:33 pm UTC

Quercus wrote:I also know enough Italians to know never to suggest the idea to one, except as a joke. In my experience it is usually viewed less as a disagreeable idea and more as a total non-sequitur , like suggesting that you would like a pizza topped with seawater.
or exuberance.

In fact, I think next time I want to be snobbish about pizza, I think I'll reply "I don't understand your metaphor.".
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Re: 1534: "Beer"

Postby rmsgrey » Mon Jun 08, 2015 2:50 pm UTC

orthogon wrote:
HES wrote:
orthogon wrote:you are allowed to drink alcohol at home from the age of five!

Yes, and growing up I was regularly offered small quantities of things at family events. Allowing a child to get drunk, however, almost certainly counts as neglect and/or abuse.

Me too, though I can't remember what age I started having wine with Sunday lunch. Five seems a bit on the young side, though.


The big difference between a drinking age of 5 and a drinking age of 18 is that a 5-year-old probably doesn't even realise they're old enough to drink now, and generally won't celebrate their birthday by having a night down the pub, while an 18-year-old will typically go out and celebrate their new right...

Also, there's an element of assuming parents are responsible adults until proven otherwise and are capable of making sensible and mature decisions about their own children rather than saying that some kids might be harmed by being given controlled access to alcohol at a young age, so there must be a law forbidding it entirely...

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Re: 1534: "Beer"

Postby CharlieP » Mon Jun 08, 2015 3:39 pm UTC

orthogon wrote:Me too, though I can't remember what age I started having wine with Sunday lunch. Five seems a bit on the young side, though.


When I was 11 or 12, a virus went through the school just before the end-of-term carol service, so just before catching the bus to church, the headmaster summoned the choir to his study, in which was a silver tray of glasses each containing a small slug of green ginger wine (at the very least - that was the only bottle on view). I don't know in what proportions it was antiseptic, lubricating or just placebo, but it certainly perked us up. Anyway, I had the dubious honour of singing a solo verse from the back of the abbey before the choir processed through. "Once in Roy... <HIC!> ...'l Da-vi-d's City..." :oops:
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Re: 1534: "Beer"

Postby Sotris » Mon Jun 08, 2015 3:40 pm UTC

I keep imagining another panel:

"I'm really sorry man, I kinda liked you". *Talks to his silicone wristband* "Control, Dissenter on my location"

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Re: 1534: "Beer"

Postby Zinho » Mon Jun 08, 2015 3:54 pm UTC

Quercus wrote:I happen to think that pineapple on pizza is delicious, but I also know enough Italians to know never to suggest the idea to one, except as a joke. In my experience it is usually viewed less as a disagreeable idea and more as a total non-sequitur , like suggesting that you would like a pizza topped with seawater.

You've hit the nail squarely on the head. I now, very suddenly, deeply desire to accompany an Italian on their first visit to a Pizza Hut in Brasil. Beyond the expected reaction of "I don't think that's pizza, where's the brick oven?" I'd love to see their reaction to the toppings list. At a Brasilian Pizza Hut it reads something like the salad bar; pretty much no fruit or vegetable is off limits. <a herf="http://www.thedailymeal.com/traveling-food-pizza-brazil">I'm not even slightly joking.</a> Corn is a popular topping there, as are peas. Many Americans say that to make the pizza taste normal you need to add ketchup as well.

I'm guessing that my Italian guest would consider that meal to be a bad prank, and insist on a real dinner afterwards to make up for it.

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Re: 1534: "Beer"

Postby orthogon » Mon Jun 08, 2015 4:03 pm UTC

Infographic idea: map of the world showing how acceptable it is to mix sweet and savoury flavours. Most of East Asia (except for a tiny dot representing CharlieP's Italian restaurant) would be 100%, assuming you could actually persuade your respondents that there was such a distinction. The USA would be perhaps around 50%; Italy apparently 0%. As for the UK, I guess that pork with apple sauce and turkey with cranberry sauce would lift the figure to around 5%. (Don't start telling me that tomato ketchup is sweet: I won't have it, I tell you!)
xtifr wrote:... and orthogon merely sounds undecided.

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Re: 1534: "Beer"

Postby CharlieP » Mon Jun 08, 2015 4:12 pm UTC

orthogon wrote:Infographic idea: map of the world showing how acceptable it is to mix sweet and savoury flavours. Most of East Asia (except for a tiny dot representing CharlieP's Italian restaurant) would be 100%, assuming you could actually persuade your respondents that there was such a distinction. The USA would be perhaps around 50%; Italy apparently 0%. As for the UK, I guess that pork with apple sauce and turkey with cranberry sauce would lift the figure to around 5%. (Don't start telling me that tomato ketchup is sweet: I won't have it, I tell you!)


The same headmaster mentioned earlier always used to eat his breakfast sausages with a little marmalade. Once I tried it too I decided I quite like it, but whenever I mention this combination to other people they usually recoil in horror and revulsion, as though I've suggested eating jelly with mustard, or beef stew with ice cream.
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Re: 1534: "Beer"

Postby JudeMorrigan » Mon Jun 08, 2015 5:16 pm UTC

CharlieP wrote:
orthogon wrote:Infographic idea: map of the world showing how acceptable it is to mix sweet and savoury flavours. Most of East Asia (except for a tiny dot representing CharlieP's Italian restaurant) would be 100%, assuming you could actually persuade your respondents that there was such a distinction. The USA would be perhaps around 50%; Italy apparently 0%. As for the UK, I guess that pork with apple sauce and turkey with cranberry sauce would lift the figure to around 5%. (Don't start telling me that tomato ketchup is sweet: I won't have it, I tell you!)

The same headmaster mentioned earlier always used to eat his breakfast sausages with a little marmalade. Once I tried it too I decided I quite like it, but whenever I mention this combination to other people they usually recoil in horror and revulsion, as though I've suggested eating jelly with mustard, or beef stew with ice cream.

I worked at McDonald's back in high school. I was quite taken aback the first time someone requested grape jelly for their sausage biscuit(*). It simply wasn't a thing my folks would have ever even have thought to offer me as a child. (The sausage+grape jelly being the part I wasn't accustomed to.)

* That's an American southern biscuit. Not the british treat.

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Re: 1534: "Beer"

Postby Kit. » Mon Jun 08, 2015 5:26 pm UTC

orthogon wrote:As for the UK, I guess that pork with apple sauce and turkey with cranberry sauce would lift the figure to around 5%. (Don't start telling me that tomato ketchup is sweet: I won't have it, I tell you!)

How about honey mustard?

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Re: 1534: "Beer"

Postby Quercus » Mon Jun 08, 2015 5:54 pm UTC

orthogon wrote:Infographic idea: map of the world showing how acceptable it is to mix sweet and savoury flavours. Most of East Asia (except for a tiny dot representing CharlieP's Italian restaurant) would be 100%, assuming you could actually persuade your respondents that there was such a distinction. The USA would be perhaps around 50%; Italy apparently 0%. As for the UK, I guess that pork with apple sauce and turkey with cranberry sauce would lift the figure to around 5%. (Don't start telling me that tomato ketchup is sweet: I won't have it, I tell you!)


Ha! Good idea. I do know of a recipe for chicken tagliatelle with a raspberry based sauce that is pretty damn great, but I'm guessing it wasn't invented by an Italian.

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Re: 1534: "Beer"

Postby operagost » Mon Jun 08, 2015 8:25 pm UTC

ctdonath wrote:BAD beer is BAD.
GOOD beer is GOOD.
GOOD beer is nigh unto illegal in the USA.

False. You haven't found it yet, and you should know better. You should. It's not exactly fair to compare locally brewed and bottled/draft beer to beer that's traveled across a country as big as the USA. Yes, try your local microbrews, and try the varieties that you are most accustomed to. You're basically sounding just like the other elitists in here who can't figure out why anyone likes something they don't.

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Re: 1534: "Beer"

Postby operagost » Mon Jun 08, 2015 8:29 pm UTC

Tevildo wrote:The uncomfortable thing is that cueball is in the "everyman" position. The last time we saw a hair guy he was ruining the restaurant industry (1499). Before that, one was a dream-crushing insurance salesman (1494) and before that one was computer-illiterate (1479). The anti-beer remarks are positioned where a punchline should be. This strongly implies that Randall actually thinks this way, or at least thinks the reasoning is sound enough to be more absurd than annoying.

It's basically like watching a talking head show on MSNBC.

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Re: 1534: "Beer"

Postby da Doctah » Mon Jun 08, 2015 10:10 pm UTC

orthogon wrote:Infographic idea: map of the world showing how acceptable it is to mix sweet and savoury flavours. Most of East Asia (except for a tiny dot representing CharlieP's Italian restaurant) would be 100%, assuming you could actually persuade your respondents that there was such a distinction. The USA would be perhaps around 50%; Italy apparently 0%. As for the UK, I guess that pork with apple sauce and turkey with cranberry sauce would lift the figure to around 5%. (Don't start telling me that tomato ketchup is sweet: I won't have it, I tell you!)

This goes a long way toward explaining the British aversion to peanut butter and root beer. It does nothing to explain why the same people who think both of those items are disgusting will happily spread fungus on their toast.

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Re: 1534: "Beer"

Postby ucim » Mon Jun 08, 2015 10:23 pm UTC

Pizza is commonly eaten with beer, but to me that makes no culinary sense. Ugh. (I like pizza, and I like beer; they just don't go together).

Red wine however, yes.

Pizza and orange juice - a surprising (and emphatic) yes! (But I can't convince anybody to try it.)

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Re: 1534: "Beer"

Postby commodorejohn » Mon Jun 08, 2015 10:46 pm UTC

ucim wrote:(I like pizza, and I like beer; they just don't go together)

I know it's a common refrain in this thread, but I find it's largely a matter of which pizza and which beer. Both come in so many different varieties that there's umpteen possible pairings, many of which aren't very good, but some of which are heavenly. (It definitely is a trickier pairing challenge than a lot of foods, since pizza itself frequently has a certain sweetness to the crust and sauce along with the savory tastes of the meat, cheese, and spices.)

For further reference, pilgrimage to Superior, Wisconsin, visit the amazing Thirsty Pagan brewpub, and ask for recommendations.
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Re: 1534: "Beer"

Postby armandoalvarez » Mon Jun 08, 2015 11:06 pm UTC

orthogon wrote:Infographic idea: map of the world showing how acceptable it is to mix sweet and savoury flavours. Most of East Asia (except for a tiny dot representing CharlieP's Italian restaurant) would be 100%, assuming you could actually persuade your respondents that there was such a distinction. The USA would be perhaps around 50%; Italy apparently 0%. As for the UK, I guess that pork with apple sauce and turkey with cranberry sauce would lift the figure to around 5%. (Don't start telling me that tomato ketchup is sweet: I won't have it, I tell you!)

I don't know that Italians are at 0%. Sicily, and to a lesser extent all of Southern Italy, is really into throwing raisins in all kinds of savory stuff. And the fruit course in a larger Italian meal will always include cheese. Plus there's agrodolce sauce.
I think the aversion to pineapple pizza isn't so much "don't mix savory and sweet" so much as "That's weird." My one aunt in Italy couldn't believe it when someone said "Americans like pepperoni on their pizza." (Well, in Italian they said "salame" because "pepperoni" means "bell peppers" in Italian. That's another story.) All kinds of combos sound weird if they're not part of your native culture. I find the idea of mayonnaise on my French fries really weird, but it's normal in Italy and much of South America. Peanut butter with jelly sounds weird in most of the world.
Yes, Italian cuisine does have some weird do not mix rules (don't put cheese on a seafood dish; don't drink wine with pizza, drink beer), but I don't think "don't mix savory and sweet" is one of them.

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Re: 1534: "Beer"

Postby Quercus » Mon Jun 08, 2015 11:22 pm UTC

armandoalvarez wrote:don't put cheese on a seafood dish


I'm kind of with them on that one - lobster thermidor is IMO a terrible thing to do to something so delicious. Seafood for me is all about subtle, delicate flavour, and almost any cheese will overpower that.

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Re: 1534: "Beer"

Postby cyanyoshi » Tue Jun 09, 2015 3:05 am UTC

It might be a coincidence, but there's a moment in Vi Hart's latest video "On Gender" (at about 3:10) when she remarks that because she didn't like the taste of beer, she thought that everyone who claimed to like beer was just pretending.

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Re: 1534: "Beer"

Postby Pfhorrest » Tue Jun 09, 2015 6:35 am UTC

That is an awesome video, thank you for linking it.
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Re: 1534: "Beer"

Postby higgs-boson » Tue Jun 09, 2015 6:44 am UTC

Hi, I am Higgs-Boson and I don't like tea.


No, it is not just "I am not fond of the taste.". It is a "I don't like it." spelled u-u-a-a-r-g-h. My friends, starting in school ('college' for U.S. people) followed the line of the Brasilian Encounter described a few posts prior to this: In their opinion, it just MUST be the case that I did not try the real tasty kind of tea, yet. 25 years of having to taste tea, from common to exotic, from casual to ceremonial, from green to black, I'd say: For me, there is no real tasty kind. To my tongue, tea tastes awful. Every tea. And I cannot get used to it. And please believe me, I tried. I tried hard, since there was that woman ... eh, other story.

Keeping this in mind, I understand perfectly well if someone says "I don't like the taste of beer", even if I - not being a regular beer-consuming entity (literally a beer or two per year) and certainly not just 'used to the taste' - find I quite refreshing. The alcohol-free type, too, for that matter.

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Re: 1534: "Beer"

Postby CharlieP » Tue Jun 09, 2015 8:02 am UTC

higgs-boson wrote:I - not being a regular beer-consuming entity (literally a beer or two per year) and certainly not just 'used to the taste' - find I quite refreshing. The alcohol-free type, too, for that matter.


One German brewer apparently pushes its alcohol-free variant as an isotonic sports drink - at a recent UK half-marathon they had a big stand set up just after the finish line giving away free samples. My friend who ran thought it was the best thing ever and went back for seconds and thirds.
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Re: 1534: "Beer"

Postby Quercus » Tue Jun 09, 2015 8:50 am UTC

CharlieP wrote:
higgs-boson wrote:I - not being a regular beer-consuming entity (literally a beer or two per year) and certainly not just 'used to the taste' - find I quite refreshing. The alcohol-free type, too, for that matter.


One German brewer apparently pushes its alcohol-free variant as an isotonic sports drink - at a recent UK half-marathon they had a big stand set up just after the finish line giving away free samples. My friend who ran thought it was the best thing ever and went back for seconds and thirds.


If I'm not very much mistaken it's Erdinger that does that. I've been very tempted to take a bottle to the gym and see what sort of reaction I get (the bottle looks like a regular beer bottle, not a sports drink bottle).

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Re: 1534: "Beer"

Postby Neil_Boekend » Tue Jun 09, 2015 9:22 am UTC

The Erdinger Alkoholfrei is a Malt and a completely separate class of alcohol free beer from the more modern 0.0. Malts are sweet and taste like syrup, because all the sugars that are usually fermented to alcohol are still there in sugar form. It's not my taste.
Especially after activity I prefer a Bavaria or Wiekse 0.0 Wit. Dunno if they are available in other countries but they do rather well here in the Netherlands.
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