1534: "Beer"

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Berzee
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Re: 1534: "Beer"

Postby Berzee » Fri Jun 05, 2015 2:49 pm UTC

ahammel wrote:I find it quite irritating to be told that I am either pretending or have been brainwashed into liking something that I genuinely enjoy.


It's an acquired taste. Maybe you just haven't heard a GOOD accusation of disingenuity or impressionability.

rmsgrey
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Re: 1534: "Beer"

Postby rmsgrey » Fri Jun 05, 2015 2:55 pm UTC

UpGoing Kerbal wrote:Ah the good old "I don't like beer because i had it once and it wasn't nice"/"I once went to a cricket match and it was boring so i hate all sports".

Certainly ranks as a bad XKCD.


"I glanced at an XKCD comic once and immediately jumped to a conclusion about what it was saying, so it was a bad XKCD regardless of what it actually said"?

If you actually read the comic, the implication is that he's tried a range of beers and finds it all unpalatable. The cricket analogy would be more "Cricket again? Why don't we just admit that it's kinda dull and the only reason anyone watches it is to avoid finding out what happens if you turn the TV off"

And, yeah, there is definitely a cultural thing in some groups where admitting to not liking beer immediately gets people thinking you're weird...

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Re: 1534: "Beer"

Postby JudeMorrigan » Fri Jun 05, 2015 2:57 pm UTC

slicedtoad wrote:
JudeMorrigan wrote:Yes, by all means. When I say I don't like the taste of coffee, I mean that I find the bitterness intolerable. I assume that's what most people are referring to when the refer to genetic predispositions. (It's pretty much an unequivocal fact that some people are more sensitive to bitter flavors than others.) I'm not sure I can adequately describe to someone else just how serious of issues I have with the bitterness though. It's not something I can build up a tolerance to. I've tried. It doesn't work. And the trying itself is exceedingly unpleasant.

Fair enough. I don't have "super taste" and really don't know how that works. I do find it unusual that a tolerance can't be built up (though I can understand why someone wouldn't want to build a tolerance to something that tastes awful to them).

That's fair. It's possible that I technically could if I were willing/able to keep trying long enough. Like I said earlier, I *do* try beer periodically to see if things have changed for me, but I reach a point where I simply can't convince myself to choke more down. That's presumably a psychological barrier though that I might be able to get over if I really wanted to badly enough.

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Re: 1534: "Beer"

Postby cphite » Fri Jun 05, 2015 2:59 pm UTC

Bitterness is a bad thing. Human tastes evolved to associate "bitter"="bad" because bitter things are often bad, even poisonous, to us. So why on earth people would voluntarily line up to guzzle gallons of beer flavored with intense bitterness is simply beyond me.


Because we enjoy it. We aren't bound to actions that are defined by evolution. Some people, hard as this may be to believe, actually enjoy bitter things. Beer, coffee, chocolate; all kinds of stuff at which our remote ancestors may have turned up their noses.

I was going to say this - I think it's pretty well accepted that nobody likes beer the first time they try it; it's an acquired taste, but once you've acquired the taste you aren't just accustomed to it, you actively love it.


I've liked beer for as long as I can remember. Not all beer, but I definitely liked the first beer. Over the years I've found a lot of beers I like even more; and some that I like a lot less. But to say that "nobody" likes beer the first time they try it is simply false.

It's the domestic (USA) bottled/canned beer that is crud which people claim to like.


Nonsense.

Certainly there are a lot more interesting beers in Europe; but the notion that all US beer is awful is simply nonsense. There are a lot of great beers in the USA. Some of them are even better than beers in Europe.

People like what they like. Some people like beer, or certain beers; other people do not. Some people like hard liquor; others find it horrible. Same goes for wine, mixed drinks, whatever.

The idea that people who like something you don't like are necessarily "pretending", or simply under the influence of peer pressure, or that they've simply acquired a taste, is pretentious nonsense.

DrunkCat
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Re: 1534: "Beer"

Postby DrunkCat » Fri Jun 05, 2015 3:03 pm UTC

How have none of you ever heard of cider. There are a fermented options that doesn't include hops y'know (and cider is the best one).

Kit.
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Re: 1534: "Beer"

Postby Kit. » Fri Jun 05, 2015 3:17 pm UTC

rmsgrey wrote:If you actually read the comic, the implication is that he's tried a range of beers and finds it all unpalatable.

Yeah, but the "range" in the comic lacks Irish ales!

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Re: 1534: "Beer"

Postby ELUNO » Fri Jun 05, 2015 3:22 pm UTC

I came here to start the great big beer revolt of 2015! :evil: :evil: :evil:

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Re: 1534: "Beer"

Postby cryptoengineer » Fri Jun 05, 2015 3:37 pm UTC

cphite wrote:
Bitterness is a bad thing. Human tastes evolved to associate "bitter"="bad" because bitter things are often bad, even poisonous, to us. So why on earth people would voluntarily line up to guzzle gallons of beer flavored with intense bitterness is simply beyond me.


Because we enjoy it. We aren't bound to actions that are defined by evolution. Some people, hard as this may be to believe, actually enjoy bitter things. Beer, coffee, chocolate; all kinds of stuff at which our remote ancestors may have turned up their noses.

I was going to say this - I think it's pretty well accepted that nobody likes beer the first time they try it; it's an acquired taste, but once you've acquired the taste you aren't just accustomed to it, you actively love it.


I've liked beer for as long as I can remember. Not all beer, but I definitely liked the first beer. Over the years I've found a lot of beers I like even more; and some that I like a lot less. But to say that "nobody" likes beer the first time they try it is simply false.

It's the domestic (USA) bottled/canned beer that is crud which people claim to like.


Nonsense.

Certainly there are a lot more interesting beers in Europe; but the notion that all US beer is awful is simply nonsense. There are a lot of great beers in the USA. Some of them are even better than beers in Europe.

People like what they like. Some people like beer, or certain beers; other people do not. Some people like hard liquor; others find it horrible. Same goes for wine, mixed drinks, whatever.

The idea that people who like something you don't like are necessarily "pretending", or simply under the influence of peer pressure, or that they've simply acquired a taste, is pretentious nonsense.


To extend this, for a long time post-Prohibition, the overwhelming majority of US beer *was* sickening crap. This started to change in the 1980s, with a series of legal changes which made it much easier to set up microbreweries and brewpubs. This led to the 'American Craft Beer Revolution' (google that), with a plethora of craft beers coming available. Consider: In 1983, there were 51 operating breweries in the whole US. There are now over 2500. Craft beers are still a minority (10%) of total consumption, but that proportion continues to rise, with major breweries trying to get into the action with 'crafty' labels such as ShockTop, Blue Moon, Third Shift.

The Bavarian Reinheitsgebot certainly kept beer made under that rule better than the European or American average (Britain went through a similar beer revolution starting in the 70s - check out CAMRA, the CAmpaign for Real Ale), but the European brewers have been far more tradition-bound and timid than new US and Canadian microbrewers, with the result that North America has a greater variety of very different beers than anywhere else, and our brewers are generally much more adventurous and experimental.

I'm not saying Munro (or his character) is 'wrong' for not liking beer. However, those who still diss US beers as a whole in favor of European one are behind the times.

ce

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PeteP
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Re: 1534: "Beer"

Postby PeteP » Fri Jun 05, 2015 3:45 pm UTC

JudeMorrigan wrote:
slicedtoad wrote:
JudeMorrigan wrote:Yes, by all means. When I say I don't like the taste of coffee, I mean that I find the bitterness intolerable. I assume that's what most people are referring to when the refer to genetic predispositions. (It's pretty much an unequivocal fact that some people are more sensitive to bitter flavors than others.) I'm not sure I can adequately describe to someone else just how serious of issues I have with the bitterness though. It's not something I can build up a tolerance to. I've tried. It doesn't work. And the trying itself is exceedingly unpleasant.

Fair enough. I don't have "super taste" and really don't know how that works. I do find it unusual that a tolerance can't be built up (though I can understand why someone wouldn't want to build a tolerance to something that tastes awful to them).

That's fair. It's possible that I technically could if I were willing/able to keep trying long enough. Like I said earlier, I *do* try beer periodically to see if things have changed for me, but I reach a point where I simply can't convince myself to choke more down. That's presumably a psychological barrier though that I might be able to get over if I really wanted to badly enough.

I find that beer tastes worse the more I drink. It starts unpleasant but I can get it down. Then it gets worse and at the end I just can't drink anymore of it. (In the past I sometimes tried drinking it in social contexts, but I have stopped that now. I could never drink enough liters of beer to get drunk and I don't like the taste so it was silly.)

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Re: 1534: "Beer"

Postby orthogon » Fri Jun 05, 2015 3:49 pm UTC

To summarise, as I see it:

There are some things that everyone likes from birth, though from what I've read, I'm reluctant to suggest any: this may in fact be an empty set.

Other things are an acquired taste. They are initially unpleasant, because there is something immediately distasteful about them that masks the desirable features in some way: they're bitter or sour, or the taste is extremely strong; if we're not talking food, then they're difficult to understand or appreciate.

The things that are an acquired taste can become highly pleasurable after enough exposure. The mechanisms include adaptation through exposure, such as becoming accustomed or desensitised to the initially unpleasant element to the point that the pleasant part can be appreciated; intellectual effort and education (particularly in non-food areas such as music); and various psychological effects such as association with happy memories. In some cases it might not be an acquired taste so much as an age-related preference.

Reasons to endure the discomfort enough to acquire the taste include: peer pressure; desirable side effects; compulsion (being served the food in a context where refusal is discouraged or rude); social expectation; or "believing the hype".

Different people will need different amounts of exposure to acquire the taste. Some people will never acquire it; others may acquire it so immediately that it doesn't appear to be an acquired taste at all (this is something I've learned from this discussion). In other cases the process of acquiring the taste may occur early enough in childhood that the acquisition process is forgotten. (I suspect that this is the case for many people with olives, for example).
xtifr wrote:... and orthogon merely sounds undecided.

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Re: 1534: "Beer"

Postby JudeMorrigan » Fri Jun 05, 2015 3:53 pm UTC

PeteP wrote:
JudeMorrigan wrote:
slicedtoad wrote:
JudeMorrigan wrote:Yes, by all means. When I say I don't like the taste of coffee, I mean that I find the bitterness intolerable. I assume that's what most people are referring to when the refer to genetic predispositions. (It's pretty much an unequivocal fact that some people are more sensitive to bitter flavors than others.) I'm not sure I can adequately describe to someone else just how serious of issues I have with the bitterness though. It's not something I can build up a tolerance to. I've tried. It doesn't work. And the trying itself is exceedingly unpleasant.

Fair enough. I don't have "super taste" and really don't know how that works. I do find it unusual that a tolerance can't be built up (though I can understand why someone wouldn't want to build a tolerance to something that tastes awful to them).

That's fair. It's possible that I technically could if I were willing/able to keep trying long enough. Like I said earlier, I *do* try beer periodically to see if things have changed for me, but I reach a point where I simply can't convince myself to choke more down. That's presumably a psychological barrier though that I might be able to get over if I really wanted to badly enough.

I find that beer tastes worse the more I drink. It starts unpleasant but I can get it down. Then it gets worse and at the end I just can't drink anymore of it. (In the past I sometimes tried drinking it in social contexts, but I have stopped that now. I could never drink enough liters of beer to get drunk and I don't like the taste so it was silly.)

Are you sure that you aren't me?

:P

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Re: 1534: "Beer"

Postby slicedtoad » Fri Jun 05, 2015 3:54 pm UTC

orthogon wrote:To summarise, as I see it:
...


Yes, excellent summary. This is how I understand it exactly.

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Re: 1534: "Beer"

Postby Quizatzhaderac » Fri Jun 05, 2015 4:00 pm UTC

About the actual comic, notice that hairguy's first response is "Man, you are no fun at all.", not "can I get you something else?".

"Fun people" enjoy beer, hair guy likes "fun people" and cueball values hairguy's opinion enough to act as though he likes beer.

Khrushy wrote:That guy should man up and just drink what he wants.
Real men drink Shirley Temples! If that's what they actually want
da Doctah wrote:As I once said to my then-girlfriend over breakfast at a Howard Johnson's, as she opened her sixth (!) serving of creamer for a single cup of joe: "Vicki, if you wanted a milkshake, why didn't you just order a milkshake?"

She likes lattes or Café con leche , but probably just didn't see them on the Howard Johnson's menu.. This is a perfectly legitimate taste, in the same vien of liking chocolate, but not unsweetened chocolate.
CharlieP wrote:
ctdonath wrote:GOOD beer is nigh unto illegal in the USA.


Also see GOOD cheese (at least such is my understanding).
Cheese period, for a strict definition of cheese. The definition used to forbid pasteurizing it, which has long been required by law.
The thing about recursion problems is that they tend to contain other recursion problems.

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Re: 1534: "Beer"

Postby ELUNO » Fri Jun 05, 2015 4:13 pm UTC

cphite wrote:
It's the domestic (USA) bottled/canned beer that is crud which people claim to like.


Nonsense.

Certainly there are a lot more interesting beers in Europe; but the notion that all US beer is awful is simply nonsense. There are a lot of great beers in the USA. Some of them are even better than beers in Europe.


You are ignoring his point. "Domestic/American beer" is not the delicious "craft" beer you can find in the US, but the typical Miller, Coors, Bud ligth, water-piss like beer. Sure, it is kind of a beer "stereotype" but that is what people refer to as domestic.

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Re: 1534: "Beer"

Postby Quercus » Fri Jun 05, 2015 4:16 pm UTC

Quizatzhaderac wrote:About the actual comic, notice that hairguy's first response is "Man, you are no fun at all.", not "can I get you something else?".

"Fun people" enjoy beer, hair guy likes "fun people" and cueball values hairguy's opinion enough to act as though he likes beer.

When I didn't like beer I found that avoiding people who tried to pressure me into drinking beer was a fairly useful way to avoid associating with arseholes.

I'm not much enamoured of either character in this comic - cueball for assuming that everyone who likes beer is "pretending" just because he doesn't like beer, and hairguy for belittling cueball for not liking beer.

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Jackpot777
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Re: 1534: "Beer"

Postby Jackpot777 » Fri Jun 05, 2015 4:29 pm UTC

bobsomer wrote:If you think beer has a bad taste, just come here in Belgium and I'll make you drink some of best things you'll ever drink!


Two words: Framboise Lambic.

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Re: 1534: "Beer"

Postby commodorejohn » Fri Jun 05, 2015 4:33 pm UTC

ELUNO wrote:You are ignoring his point. "Domestic/American beer" is not the delicious "craft" beer you can find in the US, but the typical Miller, Coors, Bud ligth, water-piss like beer. Sure, it is kind of a beer "stereotype" but that is what people refer to as domestic.

Certainly if that's what he was saying, he's 100% correct, but the phrasing was ambiguous enough that it's understandable some of us weren't sure that's what he was saying.
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Re: 1534: "Beer"

Postby Jackpot777 » Fri Jun 05, 2015 4:37 pm UTC

DrunkCat wrote:How have none of you ever heard of cider. There are a fermented options that doesn't include hops y'know (and cider is the best one).


"Hard" cider (as it's called in America) has only really taken off in the last few years, but in that time has become VERY popular. They now even sell Strongbow here in the States (one of my pleasures when I was back in Blighty).

Shandy is taking off too. There are some German breweries that have a pre-bottled Radler (German word for shandy) selling over here which is only around 2% ABV, but some American breweries have decided to just make a regular beer with lemony tones in it. Leinenkugel's Summer Shandy being the notable example, it's around 4% ABV. And as the only example Americans get of Northerners (with Yorkshire and Lancashire accents) calling Southerners (with Sussex and Hertfordshire accents) soft for drinking women's drinks on a regular basis is on Game Of Thrones, it's not frowned upon to drink half your beer and mix the rest with a large Sprite from the bar. I frequently make my own Sprite Shandy when I'm dining out at somewhere like Ruby Tuesday or Red Lobster, no shame.

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Re: 1534: "Beer"

Postby grkvlt » Fri Jun 05, 2015 4:41 pm UTC

I suspect you can divide people into two groups, in two different ways. One is Liking versus Disliking the taste of beer, the other is Geek, Scientist or Hacker types versus Normal people. The Liking beer segment is much bigger that Disliking, same for Normal versus Geek etc. So, in the Disliking beer group, those who are of the Geek/Scientist/Hacker persuasion (a small number, but pretty vocal here) are more likely to decide that Liking beer is a social convention, and dismiss it, wheras Normal people will want to pretend to be in the majority Liking beer segment because of peer pressure. Those who Like beer and are Geek/Hacker types will try and optimise the taste by looking for just the right style or slecting micro- or craft- style beer. I may be over-thinking this. I happen to Like beer, particularly Hoegaarden or Wit beer, in fact even Blue Moon in the US is actually pretty good, to my taste, and would consider myself to be in the Hacker segment also. So the groupings are like this:

Code: Select all

Like, Normal | Dislike, Normal
-------------+----------------
Like, Hacker | Dislike, Hacker


The percentages of the population in each segment, assuming a sort of Pareto distribution, would be something like this:

Code: Select all

80% x 80% | 80% x 20%
----------+----------
20% x 80% | 20% x 20%

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Re: 1534: "Beer"

Postby Rombobjörn » Fri Jun 05, 2015 4:43 pm UTC

I kinda like hops – as plants in gardens.

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Re: 1534: "Beer"

Postby Heimhenge » Fri Jun 05, 2015 4:52 pm UTC

I started drinking beer back in high school. Legal age in Wisconsin was 18 for beer, 21 for spirits. Actually started before 18, when I got into a routine of popping some popcorn and watching late night TV. My dad allowed me to drink a single beer on those popcorn nights, since I wasn't driving anywhere. Their flavors (salty + bitter) were kinda complementary, but it was always a cheap American beer ... whatever my dad found on sale. Bud, Miller, Papst, etc.

By the time I just drank beer by itself, at parties or bars with friends, I had acquired the taste. Beer is big in Wisconsin, with a lot of German heritage there. People were expected to like beer, and there was a sort of peer pressure to get people to at least try it for the first time, especially in high school, where there was plenty of underage drinking facilitated by older relatives who would buy the stuff for you. Totally illegal of course, but done all the time.

So all I ever had were the easily available cheap American mass-produced beers, which tasted just fine to me. Then, a friend introduced me to imported beers. I believe Heineken was the first one I tried. I was pleasantly surprised by both the complexity of the flavor, the bouquet, and the aftertaste. Realized that what I'd been drinking previously wasn't even close to the same experience ... tasted too "watered down" and bland and/or over-carbonated.

This was all before the recent resurgence of micro-breweries here in the US. Some, but not all, rival the European imports. There are many that actually taste "bad" to me ... especially the sweetened or flavored ones. But some of my friends enjoy those beers. Acquired taste ... no doubt in my mind.

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Re: 1534: "Beer"

Postby ijuin » Fri Jun 05, 2015 4:55 pm UTC

cryptoengineer wrote:To extend this, for a long time post-Prohibition, the overwhelming majority of US beer *was* sickening crap. This started to change in the 1980s, with a series of legal changes which made it much easier to set up microbreweries and brewpubs. This led to the 'American Craft Beer Revolution' (google that), with a plethora of craft beers coming available. Consider: In 1983, there were 51 operating breweries in the whole US. There are now over 2500.


I agree. Under Prohibition, the "weak piss" was the only stuff that was legal at all (any beer over 3% alcohol by weight was banned, so it was easier to brew stuff that simply never got any stronger than that, than to brew regular beer and then remove alcohol from it). This led to a generation growing up who never knew any other sort of beer until after their tastes had been fixed--and thus that demographic preferred the "weak piss" beer, to the point that in WWII they brought their own from America instead of drinking the real European beer. Now that demographic group is dying of old age, and the bulk of current consumers were born post-WWII, so their tastes are less influenced by the "this was all we had when I first started drinking" effect.

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Re: 1534: "Beer"

Postby CharonPDX » Fri Jun 05, 2015 4:56 pm UTC

jackal wrote:I don't get why hops are all the rage these days--IPAs, double IPAs, etc.


I live in what is probably the "ultra-hop beer capital of the world" - Portland, OR. We have about a jillion different xPAs - India Pale Ales, Cascadia Pale Ales, Black Pale Ale (WTF?) and all the "Dark Ale" variants...

I can't stand IPAs and their derivatives. They are disgusting to me. What good is that bar with 50 taps of local microbrews when 45 of them are IPAs?

But it's not the hops alone - I've had plenty of high-hop non-IPAs that I like.

Yet I love Porters. I don't drink to get drunk, I drink because I enjoy the taste of what I am drinking. Most Porters are excellent, and some are truly wondrous. I can go a whole night on one or two Porters. I don't need to even get a buzz, I just enjoy the taste.

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Re: 1534: "Beer"

Postby bonzombiekitty » Fri Jun 05, 2015 5:44 pm UTC

Purplepants77 wrote:I was under the impression that the primary reason that beer was safe to drink was because the brewing process involved boiling water.

It's multiple things. Boiling the water kills off the bad stuff, the hops help to act as a preservative, and the alcohol keeps other microbes from growing. Plus, for the most part, if beer gets infected, it's not likely to grow anything that is going to hurt you. The stuff that grows really well in that environment isn't really a danger. It may taste like crap, but it isn't gonna make you actually ill (minus nausea from bad taste/smell).

I actually had a discussion about this with a friend of mine because, knowing that alcohol is a diuretic, I wasn't sure if it was possible to have a low enough alcohol content to result in net hydration while still effectively sterilizing the water.


Beer is perfectly fine to keep you hydrated. Your body is good at keeping enough water in your system despite your kidneys doing a little extra work.

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Re: 1534: "Beer"

Postby PracticalM » Fri Jun 05, 2015 5:45 pm UTC

I've never found beer tasty, despite my friends bringing a number of different beers to try. I prefer cider and I thank the gluten free clamoring for cider to becoming more available.

I saw the list of beers to try above and I might get around to trying those if I can find them.

Not particularly fond of coffee (though I love coffee ice cream), love tea, rum, and whiskey. Used to love wine but I can't have any now due to allergies. (Well I could enjoy them for the short time until anaphylatic shock kicks in.)

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Re: 1534: "Beer"

Postby commodorejohn » Fri Jun 05, 2015 5:53 pm UTC

PracticalM wrote:I've never found beer tasty, despite my friends bringing a number of different beers to try. I prefer cider and I thank the gluten free clamoring for cider to becoming more available.

I saw the list of beers to try above and I might get around to trying those if I can find them.

If you like hard cider, you might enjoy a good lambic.
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Re: 1534: "Beer"

Postby neremanth » Fri Jun 05, 2015 5:58 pm UTC

For me there's a double barrier to liking beer: it's not only the bitterness but the fizziness. I don't like fizziness in any kind of drink except, for some strange reason, sparkling wine which I'm quite happy to drink. (I moved away from the West Country a couple of years ago and am still sad how hard it is to find still cider elsewhere.)

I love tea, but that doesn't taste bitter to me (well, unless it's really strongly brewed, in which case I don't hate it but don't love it either, and will add milk if it's black tea). Same with chocolate - even dark chocolate I don't really think of as being bitter (though I do prefer milk), olives, coffee flavoured things (coffee cake, coffee ice cream etc; I don't like actual coffee because that does taste bitter to me). It could well be that those don't taste bitter to me because I've acquired the taste for them, and that I could do the same for beer (and coffee), but I don't really have any motivation to put the effort in since I'm happy as I am (and for beer, there'd still be the fizziness problem).

Quercus wrote:I'm not much enamoured of either character in this comic - cueball for assuming that everyone who likes beer is "pretending" just because he doesn't like beer, and hairguy for belittling cueball for not liking beer.


I would probably agree with this assessment (though I'm not completely sure about hair guy - "Man, you are no fun at all" could be referring to the other guy's inability to understand how some people might actually enjoy something he doesn't rather than to him not liking beer; "Dude, if you don't like it, don't drink it" sounds like it could be totally accepting of him not liking beer, depending on the tone of voice hair guy said it in).

Berzee wrote:
ahammel wrote:I find it quite irritating to be told that I am either pretending or have been brainwashed into liking something that I genuinely enjoy.


It's an acquired taste. Maybe you just haven't heard a GOOD accusation of disingenuity or impressionability.

:lol: Well played, even though ahammel's point is extremely valid (and I would feel the same if I liked beer).

orthogon wrote:For me, the problem with most non-alcoholic drinks is sweetness (I agree with Quercus). I wish there were more savoury/bitter soft drinks available.

Same here! I like fruit juice, milkshakes, still cider, and sweet spirits (e.g. Archers) but any sweet drink other than those just tastes sickly to me. And since there is a limit to how many fruit juices I feel like consuming in a row, I don't feel like that's all I need in the way of options when I don't feel like alcohol. What I would really love to be able to drink is iced tea, but unsweetened. So easy to find in Japan, not a thing over here. (Ok, you can find it in some East Asian supermarkets and I make it at home sometimes, but if we're talking pubs, bars, restaurants, cafés, shops you might happen to be passing on a hot day... then no.)

orthogon wrote:There are some things that everyone likes from birth, though from what I've read, I'm reluctant to suggest any: this may in fact be an empty set.

Would water be in this set, I wonder? I guess most of us were too young to remember our first taste of it. Does everyone even like water anyway? (Are there any real life Captain Haddocks?)

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Re: 1534: "Beer"

Postby Zinho » Fri Jun 05, 2015 6:29 pm UTC

Berzee wrote:
ahammel wrote:I find it quite irritating to be told that I am either pretending or have been brainwashed into liking something that I genuinely enjoy.


It's an acquired taste. Maybe you just haven't heard a GOOD accusation of disingenuity or impressionability.


Nice, I think this is my favorite post so far in this thread.

I've tried in my life to expand my tastes, and I've had some successes. Learning to like chinotto is one I'm proud of, and realizing that the flavor of green olives may be the axis around which the Italian palette revolves was a revelation. The are three things, though, that I don't think I'll ever become accustomed to:
  • Raw tomato
  • wasabi
  • pudim Brazileiro

I get the "it's an acquired taste" response from people about wasabi, and when I explain that it triggers migraines for me that's usually the end of the discussion. I've tried hard to grow accustomed, and even give it a small taste whenever it's available just to make sure I haven't somehow developed an immunity, but my body really doesn't respond well to that stimulus. I make my own Habanero salsa and eat Ghost Pepper chili, so it's not an issue of not learning how to handle heat.

It's the pudim (pronounced "poo-DJEEN") that causes me a problem socially. Every Brasiliana I meet insists that I must try it, since it's SO delicious. The conversation follows a predictable pattern:
ME: I've tried it, it doesn't agree with me
HER: Oh, you must not have had it prepared correctly. I'm using my GRANDMOTHER's recipe, and it's the best in the world.
ME: I'm sure it is. I've tried it many times, each time being assured that this was the recipe that would win me over. They've all tasted the same to me, and I don't like it.
HER: I don't believe you.
ME: ... I lived in Brasil for 5 years, and we're speaking in Portuguese; you can hear the Brasilia accent when I talk. Have I lied to you on any other occasion such that you'd think me untrustworthy?
Her: Why do you hate Brasilians so much???

I'm exaggerating a bit, but not much. Seriously, you'd think that not having acquired that particular taste amounted to a wholesale rejection of their culture.

I don't think less of people that eat wasabi or enjoy budim, it's just amazing to me how some of them can't fathom that there are things they like that I don't.

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Re: 1534: "Beer"

Postby flyingdics » Fri Jun 05, 2015 6:32 pm UTC

Funny, this is how I feel about nearly every popular nerdy franchise: Doctor Who, Star Trek, Harry Potter, Tolkien, most of the Whedonverse, Game of Thrones, etc.

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Re: 1534: "Beer"

Postby ELUNO » Fri Jun 05, 2015 6:40 pm UTC

Zinho wrote:
Berzee wrote:It's the pudim (pronounced "poo-DJEEN") that causes me a problem socially. Every Brasiliana I meet insists that I must try it, since it's SO delicious. The conversation follows a predictable pattern:
ME: I've tried it, it doesn't agree with me
HER: Oh, you must not have had it prepared correctly. I'm using my GRANDMOTHER's recipe, and it's the best in the world.
ME: I'm sure it is. I've tried it many times, each time being assured that this was the recipe that would win me over. They've all tasted the same to me, and I don't like it.
HER: I don't believe you.
ME: ... I lived in Brasil for 5 years, and we're speaking in Portuguese; you can hear the Brasilia accent when I talk. Have I lied to you on any other occasion such that you'd think me untrustworthy?
Her: Why do you hate Brasilians so much???

I'm exaggerating a bit, but not much. Seriously, you'd think that not having acquired that particular taste amounted to a wholesale rejection of their culture.

I don't think less of people that eat wasabi or enjoy budim, it's just amazing to me how some of them can't fathom that there are things they like that I don't.

Dood, why are you trying so hard to not hook up with that brasiliana?!?!

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Re: 1534: "Beer"

Postby Pfhorrest » Fri Jun 05, 2015 6:49 pm UTC

Wasabi wasn't an acquired taste for me. I tried it and immediately loved it and began piling the stuff on my food in ways that the more-experienced eaters around me thought was insane, but I liked it.

Also for the record I don't really like any beers much, and haven't gone out of my way to sample a lot of them, but I will drink really strong ones like Guinness on occasion just to be polite if someone's offering, and only really hate the sex-in-a-canoe kind. I do love wines, more reds than whites. I don't really notice the taste of alcohol by itself, and unless I mix it with caffeine it has almost no effect on me, so I generally don't care one way or another about any other alcoholic drinks except for their taste.

I hate coffee with a passion that burns like a thousand suns, but like really dark chocolate. I also love strong stinky cheeses like roquefort, extremely spicy foods like ghost peppers, and some other weird things other people think are gross (like there's this bread I had once at an African restaurant which somehow produces its own vinegar in the bread), and I liked them all on the first try, without having to acquire anything but the nerve to try them despite other people's cautions against them. If I don't like something on first try, I generally don't bother trying to acquire a taste for it.
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Re: 1534: "Beer"

Postby Quizatzhaderac » Fri Jun 05, 2015 7:20 pm UTC

Zinho wrote:It's the pudim (pronounced "poo-DJEEN") that causes me a problem socially
I'd suppose you'd know better than I, but is it even socially acceptable to turn down food in Brazil?

Going by your story, I'd guess: No.
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Re: 1534: "Beer"

Postby CelticNot » Fri Jun 05, 2015 7:31 pm UTC

I have long since avoided drinking alcohol of any kind for a variety of reasons - my few experiences with it were never pleasant, either because I would get a headache from the alcohol, or the other people who were drinking it were being bad drunks. Inexplicably, I've developed an obsession with trying lemon chuhai, which is difficult as the pre-mixed cocktails aren't available yet in Canada, and I balk at buying a $60 bottle of shochu to try out a drink I may not like. I think the obsession comes from my love of homemade lemon soda (carbonate some tap water, add the juice of half a lemon, drink - yum).

Coffee is one of those things I love the smell of, but can't stand to drink unless it's cut one part coffee to twenty+ parts sugar, at which point I might as well just get a mocha cupcake. Not only does it also give me a headache, but no matter how I get it prepared, it's ALWAYS so incredibly bitter. I had an Italian restaurant make a ristretto for me once, thinking it might help - it certain tasted different, but immediately after the initial taste comes this sledgehammer of bitterness that just makes it impossible to enjoy.

Ironically, as I've gotten older, what's changed isn't my tolerance for bitterness - but my tolerance for sour and salty. I've always had a sweet tooth, but until recently I wasn't fond of sour flavours like lemon unless they were heavily sweetened. Now I can suck on a raw lemon wedge. And I've found a new love of sushi, though admittedly still only the cooked ones, but it might be at least a little because I learned how to properly apply the soy sauce...
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Re: 1534: "Beer"

Postby jozwa » Fri Jun 05, 2015 7:38 pm UTC

It's bitter and doesn't quench my thirst. At the very least it's an acquired taste. But I don't dislike the stuff, I'm indifferent to it.

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Re: 1534: "Beer"

Postby Quizatzhaderac » Fri Jun 05, 2015 7:51 pm UTC

neremanth wrote: What I would really love to be able to drink is iced tea, but unsweetened. So easy to find in Japan, not a thing over here.
That's very much a thing down here to. (although I'd assume very much a different kind of tea in Japan) Thought you might have trouble getting "hot" tea in restaurants.
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Re: 1534: "Beer"

Postby Zinho » Fri Jun 05, 2015 8:58 pm UTC

ELUNO wrote:
Zinho wrote:It's the pudim (pronounced "poo-DJEEN") that causes me a problem socially. Every Brasiliana I meet insists that I must try it, since it's SO delicious. The conversation follows a predictable pattern:
<snip>

Dood, why are you trying so hard to not hook up with that brasiliana?!?!

I'm a "wait for marriage" kind of guy, what can I say?

Quizatzhaderac wrote:I'd suppose you'd know better than I, but is it even socially acceptable to turn down food in Brazil?

Going by your story, I'd guess: No.

In general I didn't find it to be a big deal. I don't remember getting any warnings about that, and it was only really a problem for me when I didn't want that particular desert. Of course, I like to eat, and will try pretty much anything that looks edible, so maybe that's why it wasn't otherwise a problem for me...

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Re: 1534: "Beer"

Postby commodorejohn » Fri Jun 05, 2015 9:02 pm UTC

Frankly, if I met a cute Brazilian girl who kept trying to give me pudding, marriage would be officially on the agenda, or at least on the table.
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Re: 1534: "Beer"

Postby david.windsor » Fri Jun 05, 2015 9:08 pm UTC

jackal wrote:Give me a good stout or hefe any day. I actually don't drink nor crave beer too often, but sometimes nothing tastes as delicious and flavorful as a nice, smooth Guinness...

Hear! Hear!
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Re: 1534: "Beer"

Postby Purplepants77 » Fri Jun 05, 2015 9:12 pm UTC

bonzombiekitty wrote:
Purplepants77 wrote: I actually had a discussion about this with a friend of mine because, knowing that alcohol is a diuretic, I wasn't sure if it was possible to have a low enough alcohol content to result in net hydration while still effectively sterilizing the water.


Beer is perfectly fine to keep you hydrated. Your body is good at keeping enough water in your system despite your kidneys doing a little extra work.


Oh I don't doubt that beer will be hydrating, though obviously decreasingly so with higher alcohol content.

At one point a friend of mine had made the comment that she heard the alcohol in beer is what gave people a source of potable "water" in ancient (or medieval) times but the theory didn't sit right with me. My main concern was that I didn't think the amount of alcohol in beer would be enough to sterilize contaminated water and also that the amount of alcohol required to effectively sterilize it (with no other assistance) would not result in a beverage that was hydrating. Once we remembered/thought about the boiling process, the hydration/sterilization dilemma resolved itself and everything made more sense. I only left my original comment here because it seemed that someone else was on a similar line of thought, but hadn't made it to the end yet.
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Re: 1534: "Beer"

Postby Tyndmyr » Fri Jun 05, 2015 9:19 pm UTC

biohazard wrote:
Yomar wrote:I've met people like this in real life. Same for wine, whiskey etc. Yes, you've discovered our secret - we all secretly hate the taste of alcohol, and the thousands of years we've spent developing different varieties of it in cultures across the world is all an effort to find just one variety we can stand so that we can stop pretending. It's not YOU, it's everyone ELSE.


Yeah its clearly not because life was pretty horrible for most of human existence and people wanted to get drunk.


That and you gotta drink something, and bad water was a significant issue historically.

Don't get me wrong, some beers are quite enjoyable....but if not for the historical aspects of beer, I kind of doubt that we'd have hit upon this particular means of making a beverage. There's a good degree of acquired taste involved, and even if you're trying dozens of beers to find one you like...that's still slightly unusual behavior. How many different forms of say, crab do you try before you determine that you hate crab?

It's just a little odd/funny, and the comic seems reasonable. I think some of ya'll are taking it a wee bit serious. For me, it's whiskey. I don't like it, but every whiskey lover who hears this immediately thinks I somehow just haven't had the right whiskey/scotch/whatever. After enough rounds of that, I've given up even trying. There's a point where it's simply not worth it. I have no trouble believing beer is like that for some folks.


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