1543: "Team Effort"

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Dr What
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1543: "Team Effort"

Postby Dr What » Fri Jun 26, 2015 12:21 pm UTC

Image
title="Given the role they play in every process in my body, really, they deserve this award more than me. Just gotta figure out how to give it to them. Maybe I can cut it into pieces to make it easier to swallow ..."

Also, add this to the "Acknowledgement" sections in all your publications!

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Whizbang
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Re: 1543: "Team Effort"

Postby Whizbang » Fri Jun 26, 2015 12:43 pm UTC

Did the National Fart Championships already take place?

Damn. I meant to DVR that.

KarenRei
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Re: 1543: "Team Effort"

Postby KarenRei » Fri Jun 26, 2015 12:58 pm UTC

Summer Glau wins an oscar.

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orthogon
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Re: 1543: "Team Effort"

Postby orthogon » Fri Jun 26, 2015 1:08 pm UTC

5 minutes after leaving the stage: "oh shit, I forgot to mention the mitochondria. Those guys are gonna be really pissed off."
xtifr wrote:... and orthogon merely sounds undecided.

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cellocgw
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Re: 1543: "Team Effort"

Postby cellocgw » Fri Jun 26, 2015 1:29 pm UTC

Guess every PhD candidate needs to add this to their list of acknowledgements and gratitudes which are de riguer these days.
"I'd like to thank my loving and patient spouse, my advisor, my review team, the department chair, the 237 other grad students who are still slaving away, all my gut bacteria, ... and several nasty viruses for NOT infecting me.


Personally, should I ever win an award which requires an acceptance speech, I'm going to start my list of thank-yous with "I'd like to thank the Big Bang for producing a universe, the Higgs field for collapsing in an asymmetric way so as to produce the physical parts of the universe,...' (several hours later, I might get around to my parents :-) )
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NomDePlume
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Re: 1543: "Team Effort"

Postby NomDePlume » Fri Jun 26, 2015 2:03 pm UTC

"I would like to thank not only my gut bacteria, but also the variety of commensal organisms including mites for not being hostile."

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Re: 1543: "Team Effort"

Postby rmsgrey » Fri Jun 26, 2015 3:17 pm UTC

cellocgw wrote:Personally, should I ever win an award which requires an acceptance speech, I'm going to start my list of thank-yous with "I'd like to thank the Big Bang for producing a universe, the Higgs field for collapsing in an asymmetric way so as to produce the physical parts of the universe,...' (several hours later, I might get around to my parents :-) )


Time for a Sagan quote:

"If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe."

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da Doctah
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Re: 1543: "Team Effort"

Postby da Doctah » Fri Jun 26, 2015 4:36 pm UTC

As long ago as the 1950s, Victor Borge was saying "I'd like to thank my parents for making me possible".

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Re: 1543: "Team Effort"

Postby mathmannix » Fri Jun 26, 2015 6:58 pm UTC

da Doctah wrote:As long ago as the 1950s, Victor Borge was saying "I'd like to thank my parents for making me possible".

Oh, thank you so much for reminding me of that man. I just spent a few wonderfully funny minutes finding videos of him, like the ones that our choir director always had us watch in high school when he had to go do something other than teach us.
I hear velociraptor tastes like chicken.

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Soup
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Re: 1543: "Team Effort"

Postby Soup » Fri Jun 26, 2015 7:30 pm UTC

Perhaps a Brett Gurewitz quote:

"the next time I create the universe
I'll make sure you participate."
Waiting for it...

Go username5243, musthavebeenmykarma, Rakhal, thunk!!

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mathmannix
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Re: 1543: "Team Effort"

Postby mathmannix » Fri Jun 26, 2015 8:43 pm UTC

OK, so... I realized that the fact[oid] in the comic didn't make sense to me, but I looked it up, and confirmed that it has been known for quite some time (2007-8-ish):
Humans Carry More Bacterial Cells than Human Ones
Humans Have Ten Times More Bacteria Than Human Cells
However, those articles don't explain to me how it makes sense. Obviously the total volume of human cells is bigger, right? There can't be that many empty air pockets like lungs and stomach, right? right?
I mean, I guess... my assumption is it's because bacteria cells are smaller than human cells? Is this the case? I pretty much thought all cells were the same size... or at least within the same order of magnitude. But this implies that they are way smaller, if ten times as many cells take[s] up less than a tenth as much volume.
I hear velociraptor tastes like chicken.

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Re: 1543: "Team Effort"

Postby speising » Fri Jun 26, 2015 8:57 pm UTC

mathmannix wrote:OK, so... I realized that the fact[oid] in the comic didn't make sense to me, but I looked it up, and confirmed that it has been known for quite some time (2007-8-ish):
Humans Carry More Bacterial Cells than Human Ones
Humans Have Ten Times More Bacteria Than Human Cells
However, those articles don't explain to me how it makes sense. Obviously the total volume of human cells is bigger, right? There can't be that many empty air pockets like lungs and stomach, right? right?
I mean, I guess... my assumption is it's because bacteria cells are smaller than human cells? Is this the case? I pretty much thought all cells were the same size... or at least within the same order of magnitude. But this implies that they are way smaller, if ten times as many cells take[s] up less than a tenth as much volume.


Nice widget for cell sizes: http://learn.genetics.utah.edu/content/cells/scale/

Some examples:
E. Coli 3um
Skin cell 30um
Egg cell 130um
Last edited by speising on Fri Jun 26, 2015 9:38 pm UTC, edited 3 times in total.

Mikeski
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Re: 1543: "Team Effort"

Postby Mikeski » Fri Jun 26, 2015 9:11 pm UTC

mathmannix wrote:However, those articles don't explain to me how it makes sense. Obviously the total volume of human cells is bigger, right? There can't be that many empty air pockets like lungs and stomach, right? right?
I mean, I guess... my assumption is it's because bacteria cells are smaller than human cells? Is this the case? I pretty much thought all cells were the same size... or at least within the same order of magnitude. But this implies that they are way smaller, if ten times as many cells take[s] up less than a tenth as much volume.

The first article you linked says all this in the 2nd paragraph (admittedly, without specifying exact sizes for "average human cell" and "average bacterial cell"):
Scientific American wrote:All the bacteria living inside you would fill a half-gallon jug; there are 10 times more bacterial cells in your body than human cells, [...] (Despite their vast numbers, bacteria don't take up that much space because bacteria are far smaller than human cells.)

A human weighs about as much as water, water weighs about 25 pounds per 3 gallons, so if you weigh 150 pounds, you're about 18 gallons total. You've got about a half-gallon of bacteria (per the SA article), a gallon-and-a-half of empty space (lung volume of an adult male, per wikipedia), and thus about sixteen gallons of you, in you. (I didn't find a good number for how much air was in an empty digestive tract, so I'll sweep that under the rug, along with any other non-cell parts of your volume.)

So if there's 10 bacteria cells times (mumble) in 1/36th of your volume (and thus 1 cell times (mumble) in 1/360th of it), and 1 human cell times (mumble) in 16/18ths of your volume, the average human cell must have about 320 times more volume than the average human-carried bacterial cell. (Inexact inputs so inexact outputs, but probably no further off than times-or-divided-by 2...)

chenille
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Re: 1543: "Team Effort"

Postby chenille » Fri Jun 26, 2015 10:10 pm UTC

I don't really understand why bacterial cells outnumbering ours is treated as such an unusual thing. An amoeba or paramecium will typically have more bacterial symbionts than it has cells. We're basically large aggregates of eukaryotic cells much like these protozoa, and it turns out we also have more bacterial symbionts than cells, just as they do.

I've heard many articles discussing humans as less the sum of our body cells and more a colony of bacteria, justified by their greater number. Yet nobody would think to describe the amoeba as bacteria-dominated or even a team just from that; they could influence or help it in various ways, but the numerical imbalance on its own is just because it's a larger host. Why are people any different?

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Re: 1543: "Team Effort"

Postby Mikeski » Sat Jun 27, 2015 12:11 am UTC

chenille wrote:Why are people any different?

Lack of education. What percent of the population could tell you how much bacterial life is glommed onto the average amoeba, mushroom, snail, anole, muskrat, etc?

Love of clickbaity headlines/factoids. Compare "We share X% of our DNA with Lettuce". (X=16, 40, 50(!)...) Notice it's always the "10 times as many individuals" reported, and not the equally-correct "under 3% by volume". Not nearly as "shocking".

Low-level misanthropy. (Of the "humans can't be any better than the rest of Gaia's Wonderful Works" variety.)

wayne
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Re: 1543: "Team Effort"

Postby wayne » Sat Jun 27, 2015 9:27 am UTC

Don't forget that some cells build matrices around them. Bones and connective tissues, for example, will be relatively widely spaced, and they are surrounded by non-living support structures which they build and maintain. Nerve cells are long and thin; some axons can be a meter long.

hamjudo
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Re: 1543: "Team Effort"

Postby hamjudo » Sat Jun 27, 2015 6:19 pm UTC

The count in this study described in this article was 37.2 trillion human cells (of course the error bars are huge, the authors solicited refinements): http://phenomena.nationalgeographic.com/2013/10/23/how-many-cells-are-in-your-body/ This was for a 70kg human. If we assume that the average human cell is 1000 μm3, then the average human is slightly less than half non-cellular stuff. I like round numbers, so I won't try to make that number more precise.

Bacterial cell size span 8 to 10 orders of magnitude. http://mmbr.asm.org/content/70/3/660.full From 0.01 μm3 to "108 to 1010 times greater".

Wikipedia says the typical e coli has a cell volume of 0.6–0.7 μm3. e coli seems to be almost a factor of ten larger than an arbitrary sample of bacteria sizes found with google. Most of the bacteria found this way were diseases, since it is important to document disease causing bacteria for pathologists, and it is easier to get funding to study disease causing bacteria. In the human body, there are vastly different evolutionary pressures on disease causing bacteria, than on benign bacteria. It makes a big difference if the immune system is for you or against you.

Then I got nerd sniped into reading the research associated with my google search. So I leave further investigation to the other readers of this board. Knowing what I know now, it seems like there are probably much more than 10 times as many bacteria as human cells, in the human body. I would not be shocked if the number is more than 100 times as many, but that would require more research on tiny bacteria. They don't take up much volume, but they've got the numbers. There is abundant research to prove that the minimum is at least a factor of 10, that is not at all controversial.

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Re: 1543: "Team Effort"

Postby addams » Sun Jun 28, 2015 2:39 pm UTC

mathmannix wrote:
da Doctah wrote:As long ago as the 1950s, Victor Borge was saying "I'd like to thank my parents for making me possible".

Oh, thank you so much for reminding me of that man. I just spent a few wonderfully funny minutes finding videos of him, like the ones that our choir director always had us watch in high school when he had to go do something other than teach us.

You might have left a link.
But, you didn't.
(such disappointment (sniff))

You should have known.
Next time; Listen to your gut.
Go with your gut instincts.
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

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Re: 1543: "Team Effort"

Postby philipquarles » Sun Jun 28, 2015 8:14 pm UTC

Whizbang wrote:Did the National Fart Championships already take place?

Damn. I meant to DVR that.


I was going to make this joke. Damn your gut bacteria for stealing my gut bacteria's idea!

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jonhaug
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Re: 1543: "Team Effort"

Postby jonhaug » Mon Jun 29, 2015 10:08 am UTC

I don't know if Randall had it in mind, but my own immediate reaction was the German PhD Giulia Enders bestseller Darm mit Charme ("Charming Bowels"). There is quite a lot of intelligent communication between the gut and the brain.

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Re: 1543: "Team Effort"

Postby Neil_Boekend » Mon Jun 29, 2015 10:20 am UTC

rmsgrey wrote:
cellocgw wrote:Personally, should I ever win an award which requires an acceptance speech, I'm going to start my list of thank-yous with "I'd like to thank the Big Bang for producing a universe, the Higgs field for collapsing in an asymmetric way so as to produce the physical parts of the universe,...' (several hours later, I might get around to my parents :-) )


Time for a Sagan quote:

"If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe."

Or: Universal ingredients
Mikeski wrote:A "What If" update is never late. Nor is it early. It is posted precisely when it should be.

patzer's signature wrote:
flicky1991 wrote:I'm being quoted too much!

he/him/his

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orthogon
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Re: 1543: "Team Effort"

Postby orthogon » Mon Jun 29, 2015 10:29 am UTC

jonhaug wrote:I don't know if Randall had it in mind, but my own immediate reaction was the German PhD Giulia Enders bestseller Darm mit Charme ("Charming Bowels"). There is quite a lot of intelligent communication between the gut and the brain.

Ah, is that why Europe's smartest space cadets are based in Gut Town?
xtifr wrote:... and orthogon merely sounds undecided.

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Re: 1543: "Team Effort"

Postby kettu3 » Sat Jul 25, 2015 7:59 am UTC

It's fun to imagine George Clooney's voice saying all that.

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Re: 1543: "Team Effort"

Postby kelly_holden » Tue Jul 28, 2015 7:48 am UTC

orthogon wrote:
jonhaug wrote:I don't know if Randall had it in mind, but my own immediate reaction was the German PhD Giulia Enders bestseller Darm mit Charme ("Charming Bowels"). There is quite a lot of intelligent communication between the gut and the brain.

Ah, is that why Europe's smartest space cadets are based in Gut Town?

It says right in the article you link to that while that's what it translates to in modern German, that's not the origin of the name.


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