1559: "Driving"

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Dr What
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1559: "Driving"

Postby Dr What » Mon Aug 03, 2015 5:33 am UTC

Image
title="Sadly, it probably won't even have enough gas to make it to the first border crossing."

Solar-powered drone could make it without the stone. But only in summer I guess.

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Re: 1559: "Driving"

Postby piratejohn » Mon Aug 03, 2015 5:35 am UTC

Dang, BHG is one strong SOB!!!

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Re: 1559: "Driving"

Postby Eutychus » Mon Aug 03, 2015 5:50 am UTC

Nice to see the return of Black Hat Guy.

But if the car requires the weight of a small adult in the passenger seat to operate, how come it's been "left running" when there's nobody in it?
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Re: 1559: "Driving"

Postby Neil_Boekend » Mon Aug 03, 2015 5:53 am UTC

There is a difference between staying on (ready to go) and actually driving away. Also, leaving the keys in the ignition would have been enough.
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Re: 1559: "Driving"

Postby keithl » Mon Aug 03, 2015 7:06 am UTC

Google's self-driving cars are nothing. Microsoft has developed the self-flattening pedestrian.

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Re: 1559: "Driving"

Postby Eoink » Mon Aug 03, 2015 8:00 am UTC

Eutychus wrote:Nice to see the return of Black Hat Guy.

But if the car requires the weight of a small adult in the passenger seat to operate, how come it's been "left running" when there's nobody in it?


I took it that it wouldn't move until there was a driver in the driver's seat.

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Re: 1559: "Driving"

Postby Diadem » Mon Aug 03, 2015 8:40 am UTC

Wouldn't you WANT your self-driving car to be able to drive without anyone in it though?

I'd love to be able to get out in the middle of a city and tell my car "Find some place to park and pick me up again at 6". That would be awesome.
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Re: 1559: "Driving"

Postby Shoaler » Mon Aug 03, 2015 9:22 am UTC

GTA 2020 CE

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Re: 1559: "Driving"

Postby petz » Mon Aug 03, 2015 9:35 am UTC

Diadem wrote:I'd love to be able to get out in the middle of a city and tell my car "Find some place to park and pick me up again at 6". That would be awesome.


And at 6 you find out, that it drove 200km to another city and back to find a parking spot.

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Re: 1559: "Driving"

Postby miniyou » Mon Aug 03, 2015 10:03 am UTC

Diadem wrote:Wouldn't you WANT your self-driving car to be able to drive without anyone in it though?

I'd love to be able to get out in the middle of a city and tell my car "Find some place to park and pick me up again at 6". That would be awesome.


Kind of like this? fastcompany [dot] com/3030911/most-innovative-companies/heres-an-early-look-at-volvos-self-parking-driverless-car-due-to-h

Granted, it's only made for parking lots (for example outside malls) but I guess that for legal reasons.

(Not cool enough to post links :()

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Re: 1559: "Driving"

Postby NeatNit » Mon Aug 03, 2015 10:27 am UTC

What's the *SLAM* for?

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Re: 1559: "Driving"

Postby The Moomin » Mon Aug 03, 2015 10:32 am UTC

NeatNit wrote:What's the *SLAM* for?


I assumed it was the noise of shutting the car door?

Hopefully the self drive car can help future HITCHbots escape America and their destroying the helpless ways.
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Re: 1559: "Driving"

Postby Echo244 » Mon Aug 03, 2015 12:00 pm UTC

Diadem wrote:Wouldn't you WANT your self-driving car to be able to drive without anyone in it though?

I'd love to be able to get out in the middle of a city and tell my car "Find some place to park and pick me up again at 6". That would be awesome.


...and Black Hat Guy wouldn't even need his rock...
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Re: 1559: "Driving"

Postby Whizbang » Mon Aug 03, 2015 1:05 pm UTC

petz wrote:
Diadem wrote:I'd love to be able to get out in the middle of a city and tell my car "Find some place to park and pick me up again at 6". That would be awesome.


And at 6 you find out, that it drove 200km to another city and back to find a parking spot.


You're right. There is no way that the programmers of a self-driving car could prevent this.

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Re: 1559: "Driving"

Postby rmsgrey » Mon Aug 03, 2015 1:23 pm UTC

Whizbang wrote:
petz wrote:
Diadem wrote:I'd love to be able to get out in the middle of a city and tell my car "Find some place to park and pick me up again at 6". That would be awesome.


And at 6 you find out, that it drove 200km to another city and back to find a parking spot.


You're right. There is no way that the programmers of a self-driving car could prevent this.


The question is not whether they could, but how long it'll take them to figure out that they should...

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Re: 1559: "Driving"

Postby Mahnarch » Mon Aug 03, 2015 1:42 pm UTC

And, at mile 115 it gets a flat tire and pulls over for service.

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Re: 1559: "Driving"

Postby Copper Bezel » Mon Aug 03, 2015 1:43 pm UTC

Diadem wrote:Wouldn't you WANT your self-driving car to be able to drive without anyone in it though?

I'd love to be able to get out in the middle of a city and tell my car "Find some place to park and pick me up again at 6". That would be awesome.

Sure, but there's no way that would happen, for ostensible safety concerns. Or rather, I think the point at which it did, it would be part of a ride sharing service, and you wouldn't actually own the car anyway, or need to "park" it....
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Re: 1559: "Driving"

Postby Diadem » Mon Aug 03, 2015 2:55 pm UTC

Copper Bezel wrote:
Diadem wrote:Wouldn't you WANT your self-driving car to be able to drive without anyone in it though?

I'd love to be able to get out in the middle of a city and tell my car "Find some place to park and pick me up again at 6". That would be awesome.

Sure, but there's no way that would happen, for ostensible safety concerns.

Why? If my car can drive safely when I'm in it, it can drive safely when I'm not in it. It's not like it'll suddenly decide to go joyriding now that there's no human oversight. And governments have no reason to ban this. In fact they'd probably push for it hard. If all cars did this the quality of life in major cities would go up by a lot.
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Re: 1559: "Driving"

Postby speising » Mon Aug 03, 2015 3:02 pm UTC

The quality of the driver's life would already go up if there was a guiding system to the nearest parking lot, which is technically already possible for quite a while.

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Re: 1559: "Driving"

Postby Whizbang » Mon Aug 03, 2015 3:02 pm UTC

So... shall we just merge these threads now, or what?

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Re: 1559: "Driving"

Postby Darkstand » Mon Aug 03, 2015 3:54 pm UTC

Soooo.... is this a thing that has actually happened yet? Inquiring minds want to know.

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Re: 1559: "Driving"

Postby Spleen » Mon Aug 03, 2015 4:50 pm UTC

What amazes me is that he actually managed to find a rock that wasn't utterly too stoned out for the breathalyzer?
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Re: 1559: "Driving"

Postby dimochka » Mon Aug 03, 2015 5:33 pm UTC

Whizbang wrote:
petz wrote:
Diadem wrote:I'd love to be able to get out in the middle of a city and tell my car "Find some place to park and pick me up again at 6". That would be awesome.


And at 6 you find out, that it drove 200km to another city and back to find a parking spot.


You're right. There is no way that the programmers of a self-driving car could prevent this.

Not necessarily true. With technology that essentially exists today, a sensor in your car keys or phone would guide the car to park within an X mile radius from where the passenger is. Sure, we can't have the car roam the streets by itself yet (partially due to legality / safety), but in order to set this radius all you need is a GPS locator and measure the distance between the phone and the car.
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Re: 1559: "Driving"

Postby rmsgrey » Mon Aug 03, 2015 5:52 pm UTC

dimochka wrote:
Whizbang wrote:
petz wrote:
Diadem wrote:I'd love to be able to get out in the middle of a city and tell my car "Find some place to park and pick me up again at 6". That would be awesome.


And at 6 you find out, that it drove 200km to another city and back to find a parking spot.


You're right. There is no way that the programmers of a self-driving car could prevent this.

Not necessarily true. With technology that essentially exists today, a sensor in your car keys or phone would guide the car to park within an X mile radius from where the passenger is. Sure, we can't have the car roam the streets by itself yet (partially due to legality / safety), but in order to set this radius all you need is a GPS locator and measure the distance between the phone and the car.


Why would you need a separate sensor to geofence the car? Presumably it knows where it is when you tell it to go park, so it can limit itself to car parks within range. Of course, determining which car parks are within range gets tricky when you have inconvenient geographic features in the way - the straight-line distance and the driving distance are very rarely the same, and can be very, very different - parking on the wrong side of the Grand Canyon would involve quite a lot of driving...

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Re: 1559: "Driving"

Postby Carteeg_Struve » Mon Aug 03, 2015 5:54 pm UTC

I'd like to say "Ah, Black Hat. Where have you been?" but at this point I'm beginning to suspect that he's Guilfoyle from Silicon Valley during his weekends off... when his hat is being washed.

And if they aren't the same person, I want a crossover showdown dammit.

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Re: 1559: "Driving"

Postby cryptoengineer » Mon Aug 03, 2015 6:08 pm UTC

My desired user stories for a self driving car (SDC) include:

"Drop my 10 year old off at school, then come back."
"Pick up my kid from school" (requires some mechanism to mutually identify the car and kid to each other)
"Take me home safely after an evening at a bar"
"Drop me off at the front door of the mall, then park. When I summon you from my phone, come to it"
"Drop me off at the airport, then go home. I'll text you the flight I'm coming back on; be there to pick
me up."

A lot of this could be done with an SDC that was basically a cheap taxi - I don't own it and have no continued
relation with it. But not all. I live out in the country, and might not want to wait long for one to arrive. I might
also want to leave my stuff in the car over periods longer than one ride.

ce

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Re: 1559: "Driving"

Postby Whizbang » Mon Aug 03, 2015 6:09 pm UTC

At first, auto-parking will present certain (entirely manageable) difficulties. But as more and more people use self-driving technology, there will spring up more and more locations dedicated to parking self-driving cars (paid for either as a subscription service or, preferably, the city/state).After all, a mile is too far for you to park your car and walk to a building, but not very far at all for a self-driving car to park while you are busy. A simple app on your phone can be used from the elevator to call the car and it will be there when you get outside, or shortly after (depending on distance, traffic, and how early you call the car). As an added bonus, since people no longer need their cars as close as conveniently possible to their destinations, all those curb-side parking spots will be freed and become, instead, pickup and drop-off zones. Gone will be the days of circling a block looking for a convenient and close parking spot.

Also, before long, community vehicles will become a wide-spread thing, at least for city dwellers. Why buy a car when a simple call/text can have one come pick you up and deliver you to your destination at any time? More rural communities will likely continue to see car owners, however, as needing a car quickly for short trips will often make calling and waiting for a car a hassle.

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Re: 1559: "Driving"

Postby gimmespamnow » Mon Aug 03, 2015 6:36 pm UTC

rmsgrey wrote:
dimochka wrote:
Whizbang wrote:
petz wrote:
Diadem wrote:I'd love to be able to get out in the middle of a city and tell my car "Find some place to park and pick me up again at 6". That would be awesome.


And at 6 you find out, that it drove 200km to another city and back to find a parking spot.


You're right. There is no way that the programmers of a self-driving car could prevent this.

Not necessarily true. With technology that essentially exists today, a sensor in your car keys or phone would guide the car to park within an X mile radius from where the passenger is. Sure, we can't have the car roam the streets by itself yet (partially due to legality / safety), but in order to set this radius all you need is a GPS locator and measure the distance between the phone and the car.


Why would you need a separate sensor to geofence the car? Presumably it knows where it is when you tell it to go park, so it can limit itself to car parks within range. Of course, determining which car parks are within range gets tricky when you have inconvenient geographic features in the way - the straight-line distance and the driving distance are very rarely the same, and can be very, very different - parking on the wrong side of the Grand Canyon would involve quite a lot of driving...


I'm assuming the car could be programmed to figure out the Grand Canyon problem, (cause there are problems like that in every city near a mountain/river/freeway overpass/railroad track/etc.) All that said, I can think of a perfectly logical reason why you actually may want the car to drive to the other side of the grand canyon without you in it, and the people who would desire this feature have disposable incomes and would probably be the early adopters of self driving cars: if you want to hike down one side of the grand canyon and hike out the other side or if you are rafting down the river; you can pay a bunch of money for someone to give you a ride back to your car or for someone to drive your car around but: being able to tell your car to meet you someplace else in a few days would be an awesome feature...

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Re: 1559: "Driving"

Postby gimmespamnow » Mon Aug 03, 2015 7:01 pm UTC

Whizbang wrote:Also, before long, community vehicles will become a wide-spread thing, at least for city dwellers. Why buy a car when a simple call/text can have one come pick you up and deliver you to your destination at any time? More rural communities will likely continue to see car owners, however, as needing a car quickly for short trips will often make calling and waiting for a car a hassle.


I live in a city where it is possible to rent cars, one way, by the minute, with a smartphone app. Sometimes you have to walk a few blocks to pick one up since they don't drive themselves, (if you want a taxi I have an app for that too,) but that time is already here... So why do I own a car? Simple answer: Girls. If you say "I don't own a car" to most middle class woman in my city, they assume you have too many drunk driving arrests, (nope, they won't let you rent those cars if you have any,) or are really poor, or something else is "wrong" with you. (It is only slightly better than saying "I live with my mom.") Of course, I don't want to date "most" women, but still, it is just easier to be able to say "yes, I own a car" then explain why that isn't actually a big deal, on the first date.

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Re: 1559: "Driving"

Postby Whizbang » Mon Aug 03, 2015 7:05 pm UTC

gimmespamnow wrote:
Spoiler:
Whizbang wrote:Also, before long, community vehicles will become a wide-spread thing, at least for city dwellers. Why buy a car when a simple call/text can have one come pick you up and deliver you to your destination at any time? More rural communities will likely continue to see car owners, however, as needing a car quickly for short trips will often make calling and waiting for a car a hassle.


I live in a city where it is possible to rent cars, one way, by the minute, with a smartphone app. Sometimes you have to walk a few blocks to pick one up since they don't drive themselves, (if you want a taxi I have an app for that too,) but that time is already here... So why do I own a car? Simple answer: Girls. If you say "I don't own a car" to most middle class woman in my city, they assume you have too many drunk driving arrests, (nope, they won't let you rent those cars if you have any,) or are really poor, or something else is "wrong" with you. (It is only slightly better than saying "I live with my mom.") Of course, I don't want to date "most" women, but still, it is just easier to be able to say "yes, I own a car" then explain why that isn't actually a big deal, on the first date.


Well, sure, there is a social element to it. Right now, NOT owning a car is unusual. But as more and more people see the economical advantages of foregoing ownership, it will become less of a Big Deal. There is also an element of "I need my independence" or "I don't want the government tracking my moves" or "I don't trust these robot cars" or any number of other objections. My feeling is that these objections will be slowly overridden for the majority as the convenience of it wins them over.

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Re: 1559: "Driving"

Postby rmsgrey » Mon Aug 03, 2015 7:45 pm UTC

gimmespamnow wrote:I'm assuming the car could be programmed to figure out the Grand Canyon problem, (cause there are problems like that in every city near a mountain/river/freeway overpass/railroad track/etc.) All that said, I can think of a perfectly logical reason why you actually may want the car to drive to the other side of the grand canyon without you in it, and the people who would desire this feature have disposable incomes and would probably be the early adopters of self driving cars: if you want to hike down one side of the grand canyon and hike out the other side or if you are rafting down the river; you can pay a bunch of money for someone to give you a ride back to your car or for someone to drive your car around but: being able to tell your car to meet you someplace else in a few days would be an awesome feature...


The trouble is not that the problems of self-driving cars are insurmountable (or even particularly difficult to solve, on a case-by-case basis) but that it's hard to find all of them (and unless you're very careful and very clever, every problem you solve is an opportunity for other problems to be created when the solutions to two different problems interact in unforeseen ways)

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Re: 1559: "Driving"

Postby keithl » Mon Aug 03, 2015 7:49 pm UTC

gimmespamnow wrote:So why do I own a car? Simple answer: Girls. If you say "I don't own a car" to most middle class woman in my city, they assume you have too many drunk driving arrests, (nope, they won't let you rent those cars if you have any,) or are really poor, or something else is "wrong" with you. (It is only slightly better than saying "I live with my mom.")
Ah, an entrepreneurial opportunity! Howzabout I buy a luxury car, and sell gentlemen like you $50 shares in it? I keep it in the garage of a fancy apartment building, and nobody gets to drive it. "Owners" can truthfully claim "I prefer to use shared cars for environmental reasons, so I keep my Mercedes parked in my reserved spot at 101 RitzyDigs Place." Eco-points AND wealth points!

The "girls" will find out eventually, but if they are impressed by such status symbols, they aren't keepers. You should only give your heart to intelligent women who read XKCD, and value your witty postings.

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Re: 1559: "Driving"

Postby keithl » Mon Aug 03, 2015 8:04 pm UTC

Where can we get self-driving romantic relationships? There have been a lot more accidents caused by "dating while drunk" rather than "driving while drunk."

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Re: 1559: "Driving"

Postby Whizbang » Mon Aug 03, 2015 8:06 pm UTC

keithl wrote:Where can we get self-driving romantic relationships? There have been a lot more accidents caused by "dating while drunk" rather than "driving while drunk."


Spoiler:
Image

Image

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Re: 1559: "Driving"

Postby dimochka » Mon Aug 03, 2015 8:21 pm UTC

rmsgrey wrote:
dimochka wrote:
Whizbang wrote:
petz wrote:
Diadem wrote:I'd love to be able to get out in the middle of a city and tell my car "Find some place to park and pick me up again at 6". That would be awesome.


And at 6 you find out, that it drove 200km to another city and back to find a parking spot.


You're right. There is no way that the programmers of a self-driving car could prevent this.

Not necessarily true. With technology that essentially exists today, a sensor in your car keys or phone would guide the car to park within an X mile radius from where the passenger is. Sure, we can't have the car roam the streets by itself yet (partially due to legality / safety), but in order to set this radius all you need is a GPS locator and measure the distance between the phone and the car.


Why would you need a separate sensor to geofence the car? Presumably it knows where it is when you tell it to go park, so it can limit itself to car parks within range. Of course, determining which car parks are within range gets tricky when you have inconvenient geographic features in the way - the straight-line distance and the driving distance are very rarely the same, and can be very, very different - parking on the wrong side of the Grand Canyon would involve quite a lot of driving...

I'm thinking literally as simple as fuel costs. Sure if you're at work for 9 hours the car can go park itself 3 hours away, but I'm not sure you'd want the mileage and fuel increase.
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Re: 1559: "Driving"

Postby Whizbang » Mon Aug 03, 2015 8:31 pm UTC

Parking routines would definitely be limited by driving time. Staight-line distances would be meaningless. There would likely be a formula used that preferred closer parking spaces and had a hard limit at certain distances away, after which it turns around and re-searches the same area for a valid parking space. It would never be more than a few minutes' drive time away from you (assuming a default behavior of "park nearby". You could potentially give it different instructions). Of course, it could spend the entire 9 hours just circling around looking for a parking space, but I imagine the algorithm produced after field testing would be robust enough to find at least one valid spot within a reasonable amount of time. In fact, I am sure current self driving cars are capable of this, or very close if not.

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Re: 1559: "Driving"

Postby rmsgrey » Mon Aug 03, 2015 8:44 pm UTC

Whizbang wrote:Parking routines would definitely be limited by driving time. Staight-line distances would be meaningless. There would likely be a formula used that preferred closer parking spaces and had a hard limit at certain distances away, after which it turns around and re-searches the same area for a valid parking space. It would never be more than a few minutes' drive time away from you (assuming a default behavior of "park nearby". You could potentially give it different instructions). Of course, it could spend the entire 9 hours just circling around looking for a parking space, but I imagine the algorithm produced after field testing would be robust enough to find at least one valid spot within a reasonable amount of time. In fact, I am sure current self driving cars are capable of this, or very close if not.


Sometimes there literally isn't a legal parking space nearby...

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Re: 1559: "Driving"

Postby Whizbang » Mon Aug 03, 2015 8:52 pm UTC

There could potentially be a solution in double-parking. After all, these things are automated. If a car gets a signal to pick someone up, but is blocked by other self driving cars, it could transmit a "I need to leave now" signal to nearby cars, which would then move out of the way, then shuffle back into the available parking space. But, with the constant comings and goings of people, I imagine in nearly all situations a spot can be found within a reasonable amount of time. And like I said, as these things become more common, it would be in everyone's interests for there to be designated parking areas/garages that are strategically located throughout urban areas for self-driving cars to go and park without cluttering up roads. Businesses will no longer need large parking lots. Instead, the cars will go to nearby garages that can hold many cars.

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Re: 1559: "Driving"

Postby speising » Mon Aug 03, 2015 8:53 pm UTC

It could do what a human does: park illegally and drive away when a cop shows up.

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Re: 1559: "Driving"

Postby ctdonath » Mon Aug 03, 2015 9:05 pm UTC

Whizbang wrote:If a car gets a signal to pick someone up, but is blocked by other self driving cars, it could transmit a "I need to leave now" signal to nearby cars, which would then move out of the way, then shuffle back into the available parking space.


The image of a parking lot stuffed full of self-driving cars, no discernible aisles, with waves of vehicles shifting in their minuscule given spaces as they shuffle out of each other's way as individual vehicles come & go.
Woah.


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