1567: "Kitchen Tips"

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Re: 1567: "Kitchen Tips"

Postby Neil_Boekend » Sat Aug 22, 2015 6:13 am UTC

Environmentally it's not as wise.
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Re: 1567: "Kitchen Tips"

Postby Eebster the Great » Sat Aug 22, 2015 6:44 am UTC

It's taking advantage of a flaw in our economy. Manufacturers of, in this case, paper plates, don't have to pay for the negative externalities. So they can charge low rates, which means the consumer also benefits.

The only one who suffers is literally everyone.

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Re: 1567: "Kitchen Tips"

Postby Aiwendil » Sat Aug 22, 2015 4:56 pm UTC

If you're anything like me, your desktop is full of crap. Instead of throwing every file on the desktop, try using folders!


A surprisingly large number of people actually seem to be in desperate need of this advice.

Have other languages adopted 'cookies' as a technical term, as opposed to using whatever word they have for cookies?


What's funny is that the word "cookie" comes from Dutch, but apparently they imported the English spelling for the computer term.

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Re: 1567: "Kitchen Tips"

Postby Quercus » Sat Aug 22, 2015 5:14 pm UTC

Aiwendil wrote:
If you're anything like me, your desktop is full of crap. Instead of throwing every file on the desktop, try using folders!


A surprisingly large number of people actually seem to be in desperate need of this advice.

I have such a strong desktop-clearing instinct that I use the desktop for files (maximum 3, otherwise it's just too irritating) that absolutely must be dealt with immediately, because I know that if they're on the desktop my brain won't let me ignore them.

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Re: 1567: "Kitchen Tips"

Postby tsarna » Sat Aug 22, 2015 10:56 pm UTC

cellocgw wrote:On the "actually true" side, didja know that you can punch in "99" and the microwave will run for 99 seconds? You've just saved a keystroke compared with punching in "1:39" :P


My Hobby: Sometimes I like to punch in 1:90 or similar, just to mix things up.

I recall many, many years ago seeing some microwave food item with a label saying "cook for 1½ minutes (1:30 digital)". This was probably back when microwaves had analog timer dials, but still. (EDIT: I see they commonly do elsewhere, but I haven't seen one like that in decades in the US).

The toilet paper reference in the alt tag reminds me of some stand-up's joke: he liked to look concerned when going through the supermarket checkout line, and then ask the cashier if he bought the right amount of toilet paper for the amount of food he was getting.

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Re: 1567: "Kitchen Tips"

Postby Story » Sun Aug 23, 2015 1:42 am UTC

Neil_Boekend wrote:Environmentally it's not as wise.


I've actually wondered about that. Given that I live in an area with a severe water shortage, it seems like all the water saved from not washing dishes would more than make up for that. But I have no idea what the actual numbers are.

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Re: 1567: "Kitchen Tips"

Postby da Doctah » Sun Aug 23, 2015 5:26 am UTC

tsarna wrote:My Hobby: Sometimes I like to punch in 1:90 or similar, just to mix things up.


Given: a numeric pad with digits 0-9, plus a key for "one minute" that will accept multiple presses.

Given also: a few seconds either way isn't going to make a lot of difference to how cooked your food is.

My Hobby: coming up with command sequences using only one key, n times. Your example would probably get entered as "4-4-4". The next lower increment would be "minute-minute-minute-minute", and the next higher "minute-minute-minute-minute-minute".

When I have something that's supposed to take about ten minutes, I find that "8-8-8" gets as near as dammit.

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Re: 1567: "Kitchen Tips"

Postby SuicideJunkie » Sun Aug 23, 2015 1:14 pm UTC

If you're anything like me, you only step on tiles with an even number of same-colored tiles adjacent to it, and keep score as you travel.
Instead, try walking carelessly so you blend in with the normals!

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Re: 1567: "Kitchen Tips"

Postby Neil_Boekend » Sun Aug 23, 2015 2:23 pm UTC

Story wrote:
Neil_Boekend wrote:Environmentally it's not as wise.


I've actually wondered about that. Given that I live in an area with a severe water shortage, it seems like all the water saved from not washing dishes would more than make up for that. But I have no idea what the actual numbers are.

Interesting theory. It may even be more in favor if you properly separate and recycle both the paper plates and the PE cups. Both can be fully recycled, just not when they are tossed in the same bag.
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Re: 1567: "Kitchen Tips"

Postby eidako » Sun Aug 23, 2015 3:11 pm UTC

RogueCynic wrote:cruise control

Snopes article, marked as legend.

RogueCynic wrote:And why do coffee cups from McDonald's and coffee shops have a warning saying "Contents are extremely hot."?

Because they were successfully sued for $3M over a coffee spill. The case wasn't completely nuts though. It was found that McDonalds held the coffee at unusually high (nearly boiling) temperatures. McDonalds claimed it was to ensure it was still hot when travelers got around to drinking it, other sources say it was to mask the bad flavor. The old lady received third degree burns that put her in the hospital for a week and, to her credit, only intended to sue them for the amount of her medical expenses, $20k.

It's worth noting that the cups already had a warning at the time, though it failed to reduce their liability in this case.

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Re: 1567: "Kitchen Tips"

Postby candybrie4zo » Sun Aug 23, 2015 6:11 pm UTC

da Doctah wrote:
tsarna wrote:My Hobby: Sometimes I like to punch in 1:90 or similar, just to mix things up.


Given: a numeric pad with digits 0-9, plus a key for "one minute" that will accept multiple presses.

Given also: a few seconds either way isn't going to make a lot of difference to how cooked your food is.

My Hobby: coming up with command sequences using only one key, n times. Your example would probably get entered as "4-4-4". The next lower increment would be "minute-minute-minute-minute", and the next higher "minute-minute-minute-minute-minute".

When I have something that's supposed to take about ten minutes, I find that "8-8-8" gets as near as dammit.


Wouldn't "2-2-2" be the closest for 1:90? 144 seconds to 150 seconds.

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Re: 1567: "Kitchen Tips"

Postby Eshru » Sun Aug 23, 2015 6:52 pm UTC

Ignoring that 888 is nearest to 15 mins?

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Re: 1567: "Kitchen Tips"

Postby Lazy Tommy » Sun Aug 23, 2015 7:46 pm UTC

Neil_Boekend wrote:
Story wrote:Given that I live in an area with a severe water shortage, it seems like all the water saved from not washing dishes would more than make up for that. But I have no idea what the actual numbers are.
Interesting theory. It may even be more in favor if you properly separate and recycle both the paper plates and the PE cups. Both can be fully recycled, just not when they are tossed in the same bag.
But recycling centers would still have to clean those plates, and use water in the process. Recycling facilities that pulp paper use even more water. And then there's transportation, which isn't environmentally neutral.

You're forgetting the truly efficient & natural way: let the cat lick them clean. :mrgreen:

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Re: 1567: "Kitchen Tips"

Postby Mikeski » Sun Aug 23, 2015 7:48 pm UTC

Eshru wrote:Ignoring that 888 is nearest to 15 mins?

On any digital microwave I've used, hitting "8 8 8" gives you 8 minutes 88 seconds, not 888 seconds.

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Re: 1567: "Kitchen Tips"

Postby Flumble » Sun Aug 23, 2015 8:02 pm UTC

Lazy Tommy wrote:
Neil_Boekend wrote:
Story wrote:Given that I live in an area with a severe water shortage, it seems like all the water saved from not washing dishes would more than make up for that. But I have no idea what the actual numbers are.
Interesting theory. It may even be more in favor if you properly separate and recycle both the paper plates and the PE cups. Both can be fully recycled, just not when they are tossed in the same bag.
But recycling centers would still have to clean those plates, and use water in the process. Recycling facilities that pulp paper use even more water. And then there's transportation, which isn't environmentally neutral.

You're forgetting the truly efficient & natural way: let the cat lick them clean. :mrgreen:

A recycling center can optimize the amount of water needed to clean the plastics. My guess is that such a facility is at least as efficient as a modern dishwasher –using little water and reusing it if possible. The transportation and re-production make it very enviroment inefficient indeed. Not in the least because the facilities and trucks have to be produced.

This is what's making me cringe about a lot of "green" labels, too. Companies can claim (or even worse, believe) that they're being environmentally friendly by e.g. installing solar panels, without considering how those panels are made, how big the environmental footprint actually is.
...neither do I, but I don't simply believe.

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Re: 1567: "Kitchen Tips"

Postby lazyusername » Tue Aug 25, 2015 2:46 am UTC

nickthefool wrote:
Hafting wrote:And on boxes of frozen pizza, they actually print "Take the pizza out of the box & plastic before heating". It amazes me to imagine people who actually benefit from such advice.


I came across someone who didn't follow this advice once. He set the kitchen on fire. We laughed. A lot.


This reminds me of a girl way back in middle school who used a calculator to hold the lid on her cup-o-noodles in the microwave. It was pretty funny. :lol:

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Re: 1567: "Kitchen Tips"

Postby Neil_Boekend » Tue Aug 25, 2015 8:12 am UTC

Flumble wrote:
Lazy Tommy wrote:
Neil_Boekend wrote:
Story wrote:Given that I live in an area with a severe water shortage, it seems like all the water saved from not washing dishes would more than make up for that. But I have no idea what the actual numbers are.
Interesting theory. It may even be more in favor if you properly separate and recycle both the paper plates and the PE cups. Both can be fully recycled, just not when they are tossed in the same bag.
But recycling centers would still have to clean those plates, and use water in the process. Recycling facilities that pulp paper use even more water. And then there's transportation, which isn't environmentally neutral.

You're forgetting the truly efficient & natural way: let the cat lick them clean. :mrgreen:

A recycling center can optimize the amount of water needed to clean the plastics. My guess is that such a facility is at least as efficient as a modern dishwasher –using little water and reusing it if possible. The transportation and re-production make it very enviroment inefficient indeed. Not in the least because the facilities and trucks have to be produced.

This is what's making me cringe about a lot of "green" labels, too. Companies can claim (or even worse, believe) that they're being environmentally friendly by e.g. installing solar panels, without considering how those panels are made, how big the environmental footprint actually is.
...neither do I, but I don't simply believe.

Large installations can use reverse-flow for their water. Pump the water in at the clean end so the cleanest plastic has the cleanest water and let it flow backwards to the dirtiest plastic so that gets pre-cleaned. The water running out at the end is extremely dirty, but mostly (I guess 99.9%) with edible stuff so it's easy to compost.
Since oil is non-renewable and water is renewable recycling always wins in the long term.

As for the paper plates: turning trees into woodpulp also costs water. Dunno how much though.

As for the green labels: I have no means of figuring out what the environmental cost of the entire production chain is. I just hope that buying stuff with a green label actually sends the message that this is something I care about. Next step is verifying the validity of the labels (do they actually check the entire chain? Are they just a fake label with no actual green demands? Do they take payments from the industry they are checking?)
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Re: 1567: "Kitchen Tips"

Postby Eebster the Great » Tue Aug 25, 2015 8:18 am UTC

Still better than "all natural." As far as I can tell, the only food items you couldn't sell as "natural" would be supernatural ones like holy water.

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Re: 1567: "Kitchen Tips"

Postby Keyman » Tue Aug 25, 2015 7:34 pm UTC

tsarna wrote:
cellocgw wrote:On the "actually true" side, didja know that you can punch in "99" and the microwave will run for 99 seconds? You've just saved a keystroke compared with punching in "1:39" :P


My Hobby: Sometimes I like to punch in 1:90 or similar, just to mix things up.

I recall many, many years ago seeing some microwave food item with a label saying "cook for 1½ minutes (1:30 digital)". This was probably back when microwaves had analog timer dials, but still. (EDIT: I see they commonly do elsewhere, but I haven't seen one like that in decades in the US).

I was next in line at the company (digital) microwave. My lunch is one of those "Cook for 1 1/2 minutes", but it was out of it's wrapper, with holes punched, etc. and ready to insert. The lady taking hers out in front of me, asked if she I would like her to start mine. I said "Yes, please. 99 seconds." She did stop, looked at her watch, with her finger traced a clockwise circle around the face 1 1/2 times...then set it for 1:39.

~sigh~
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Re: 1567: "Kitchen Tips"

Postby operagost » Tue Aug 25, 2015 8:07 pm UTC

biohazard wrote:
Eebster the Great wrote:
Plasma_Wolf wrote:Wear these handy things called "oven mitts" when you take something out of the oven. You won't believe how many trips to A&E will be spared!

? And Emergency?


accident? just a guess

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Re: 1567: "Kitchen Tips"

Postby SecondTalon » Tue Aug 25, 2015 9:14 pm UTC

That's kinda dark. Maybe darker than you intended.
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Re: 1567: "Kitchen Tips"

Postby Sprocket » Tue Aug 25, 2015 11:17 pm UTC

This really ought to be called "Kitchen Hacks"
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Re: 1567: "Kitchen Tips"

Postby Pfhorrest » Tue Aug 25, 2015 11:35 pm UTC

Kitchen Life Pro Tips.
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Re: 1567: "Kitchen Tips"

Postby DanAxtell » Wed Aug 26, 2015 1:48 am UTC

XKCD 1567 satirizes people like me who don’t use meat thermometers. That was my immediate interpretation: four panels of fools who are oblivious to appropriate technologies--and the first panel is actually a thing.

Anyway, I just used a meat thermometer for the first time in years for a steak on the grill. I took it off at 145 degrees Fahrenheit and I feel as though both the animal and the eaters were more respected.

The technology of meat thermometers has dramatically improved in the past decades. That may be why I didn’t get into the habit early on. Anyway, I’ll use a meat thermometer henceforth.

I came to this forum to see if others shared my interpretation and epiphany, but no. After 4 days, it's clear that others have enjoyed the strip simply for its absurdity. I conclude that everyone here is either a vegetarian or already uses a meat thermometer.

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Re: 1567: "Kitchen Tips"

Postby Copper Bezel » Wed Aug 26, 2015 2:06 am UTC

I had the same interpretation if not reaction. I don't use meat thermometers for anything, though. Have never owned one.
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Re: 1567: "Kitchen Tips"

Postby Pfhorrest » Wed Aug 26, 2015 3:02 am UTC

I assumed that the "use a meat thermometer" was a real honest tip that a lot of people might not know to do, and that the rest were intentionally absurd exaggerations of that kind of benign ignorance, also having the effect of mocking the original, less absurd example by comparison with the absurd exaggerations.
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Re: 1567: "Kitchen Tips"

Postby Eebster the Great » Wed Aug 26, 2015 3:24 am UTC

The "use a meat thermometer" tip is extremely common and also very obvious. If people realized they were having a problem judging the temperature of food, they would presumably use a thermometer whether or not you gave them that tip.

I don't use meat thermometers very often, but it's not because I wasn't aware they existed.

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Re: 1567: "Kitchen Tips"

Postby Quercus » Wed Aug 26, 2015 6:39 am UTC

Since I got one of these babys:

Image

I use it for everything. Meat, fish, baking, reheating. It's way more informative than a normal cake tester, and getting fish to the perfect 60C and no higher is key to getting the best texture. They're not just for meat!

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Re: 1567: "Kitchen Tips"

Postby Pfhorrest » Wed Aug 26, 2015 7:05 am UTC

Fish is a kind of meat.
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Re: 1567: "Kitchen Tips"

Postby Quercus » Wed Aug 26, 2015 7:12 am UTC

Pfhorrest wrote:Fish is a kind of meat.

Biologically yes, in a culinary sense, not particularly, except tuna and possibly swordfish. Actually in a culinary sense I'd split up the broad category of "meat" into meat - mammals; fowl - birds; fish - well, fish; and seafood - molluscs and crustaceans.

Not sure where I'd put reptiles, amphibians and insects - they don't tend to appear much in my cooking or eating, although I know they are eaten regularly in some food cultures

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Re: 1567: "Kitchen Tips"

Postby Neil_Boekend » Wed Aug 26, 2015 8:44 am UTC

DanAxtell wrote:XKCD 1567 satirizes people like me who don’t use meat thermometers. That was my immediate interpretation: four panels of fools who are oblivious to appropriate technologies--and the first panel is actually a thing.

Anyway, I just used a meat thermometer for the first time in years for a steak on the grill. I took it off at 145 degrees Fahrenheit and I feel as though both the animal and the eaters were more respected.

The technology of meat thermometers has dramatically improved in the past decades. That may be why I didn’t get into the habit early on. Anyway, I’ll use a meat thermometer henceforth.

I came to this forum to see if others shared my interpretation and epiphany, but no. After 4 days, it's clear that others have enjoyed the strip simply for its absurdity. I conclude that everyone here is either a vegetarian or already uses a meat thermometer.


I never use mine in meat, but egg based oven dishes get so much more reliable with one of those. Meat you can generally see from the outside (with experience) and I can't imagine making a hole in your meat to let the juices out is conductive for a good piece of meat.

Quercus wrote:Since I got one of these babys:
Spoiler:
Image
I use it for everything. Meat, fish, baking, reheating. It's way more informative than a normal cake tester, and getting fish to the perfect 60C and no higher is key to getting the best texture. They're not just for meat!

I would never get one of those. I use mine mostly in the oven, I stick it in my food and leave it there so I can see the internal temperature through the oven door window. That one might melt, ruining my food. I have a cheap bimetal one with a metal casing and a glass faceplate. You can probably heat that thing to 300°C without it melting.
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Re: 1567: "Kitchen Tips"

Postby da Doctah » Wed Aug 26, 2015 9:17 am UTC

Quercus wrote:and seafood - molluscs and crustaceans.

Not sure where I'd put reptiles, amphibians and insects - they don't tend to appear much in my cooking or eating, although I know they are eaten regularly in some food cultures


Insects go with the crustaceans. Not a lot of difference protein-wise between a shrimp and a grasshopper. Actually, I'd be more inclined to draw the line between here and the molluscs you so blithely assign to the "meat" category. Maybe a nice squid is meat, but I'm less certain about clams. And I'd have to think long and hard about even simpler invertebrates like jellyfish, sea urchin and anemone.

Reptiles go with the birds. I've eaten three of the four living subgroups: turtle, snake and alligator, and the one unavoidable fact is that they all taste like chicken.

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Re: 1567: "Kitchen Tips"

Postby Quercus » Wed Aug 26, 2015 9:28 am UTC

Neil_Boekend wrote:
Quercus wrote:Since I got one of these babys:
Spoiler:
Image
I use it for everything. Meat, fish, baking, reheating. It's way more informative than a normal cake tester, and getting fish to the perfect 60C and no higher is key to getting the best texture. They're not just for meat!

I would never get one of those. I use mine mostly in the oven, I stick it in my food and leave it there so I can see the internal temperature through the oven door window. That one might melt, ruining my food. I have a cheap bimetal one with a metal casing and a glass faceplate. You can probably heat that thing to 300°C without it melting.


Well, I also have one of these from the same company:
Image

The probe is attached to a braided steel cable so you can put it in the oven then close the oven door, and leave the display unit outside the oven. You can set it to alarm when it reaches a particular temperature, which is really useful. I mainly use it for bread baking.

The advantage of the previous one (which is called a thermapen) is that it has insanely fast read times - it only takes a couple of seconds to equilabrate because the thermocouple is right down in the tiny low-thermal-mass tip of the probe.

The thing which most impressed me was that they both came with traceable calibration certificates. I don't think it was ISO:17025 compliant, but you can only expect so much from kitchenware :) AFAIK the company started off producing industrial and scientific thermometry equipment then branched out into kitchen thermometers, so they know their stuff.

Neil_Boekend wrote:I can't imagine making a hole in your meat to let the juices out is conductive for a good piece of meat.

According to serious eats that's not an issue (although they don't like leave-in thermometers in meat for other reasons)

da Doctah wrote:
Quercus wrote:and seafood - molluscs and crustaceans.

Not sure where I'd put reptiles, amphibians and insects - they don't tend to appear much in my cooking or eating, although I know they are eaten regularly in some food cultures


Insects go with the crustaceans. Not a lot of difference protein-wise between a shrimp and a grasshopper. Actually, I'd be more inclined to draw the line between here and the molluscs you so blithely assign to the "meat" category. Maybe a nice squid is meat, but I'm less certain about clams. And I'd have to think long and hard about even simpler invertebrates like jellyfish, sea urchin and anemone.

Reptiles go with the birds. I've eaten three of the four living subgroups: turtle, snake and alligator, and the one unavoidable fact is that they all taste like chicken.

I put molluscs in with seafood, not meat. My "broad" category of meat was literally "the flesh of an animal", so would include all the things I mentioned, and all the things you mentioned, including jellyfish.

Good to know that insects go with crustaceans and reptiles with birds - thanks.

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Re: 1567: "Kitchen Tips"

Postby orthogon » Wed Aug 26, 2015 10:19 am UTC

Quercus wrote:The thing which most impressed me was that they both came with traceable calibration certificates. I don't think it was ISO:17025 compliant, but you can only expect so much from kitchenware :) AFAIK the company started off producing industrial and scientific thermometry equipment then branched out into kitchen thermometers, so they know their stuff.

I think the use of food thermometers is part of food hygiene regulations (in the UK, where we both live); if not actually part of regulations it's one of those things that's accepted as a way of demonstrating that you took appropriate steps not to poison your customers. That's probably why they're serious instruments with calibration certificates and the like.
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Re: 1567: "Kitchen Tips"

Postby Flumble » Wed Aug 26, 2015 10:43 am UTC

I would put a lot of invertebrae in the category "not food" as my body rejects slimey textures like snail and clam. :?

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Re: 1567: "Kitchen Tips"

Postby Eebster the Great » Wed Aug 26, 2015 12:47 pm UTC

Quercus wrote:
Pfhorrest wrote:Fish is a kind of meat.

Biologically yes, in a culinary sense, not particularly, except tuna and possibly swordfish. Actually in a culinary sense I'd split up the broad category of "meat" into meat - mammals; fowl - birds; fish - well, fish; and seafood - molluscs and crustaceans.


Sharks also qualify as "meat" in the above classification system, just like swordfish and tuna. Clearly this has to do with the mass of the individual, not the genetic taxonomical classification.

rmsgrey
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Re: 1567: "Kitchen Tips"

Postby rmsgrey » Wed Aug 26, 2015 1:50 pm UTC

I don't cook large enough chunks of meat that it's hard to judge the interior temperature from the exterior condition often enough to make a meat thermometer a good investment - and I know how to cope with undercooked meat should the situation arise...

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Whizbang
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Re: 1567: "Kitchen Tips"

Postby Whizbang » Wed Aug 26, 2015 1:51 pm UTC

rmsgrey wrote:- and I know how to cope with undercooked meat should the situation arise...


Eat it?

That's what I do.

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Re: 1567: "Kitchen Tips"

Postby orthogon » Wed Aug 26, 2015 1:57 pm UTC

What qualifies as "meat" appears to vary quite widely; the word itself has a long and complex etymology. The OED shows the association with flesh arriving only in Middle English, and in this sense says "esp. excluding fish and sometimes poultry". There is definitely a modern meaning that includes any part of any animal used as food, but I guess this is probably quite recent and motivated by the need for a word encompassing all the things that a vegetarian specifically doesn't eat. For an omnivore, the differences are profound enough to make the grouping somewhat less than useful.

Personally I am one of those people known variously as a "pescatarian" or "fish-and-chippocrite". I became increasingly uncomfortable with eating fellow mammals and intended to become a vegetarian in stages, but got stuck on fish and seafood, mainly if I'm honest because I enjoy them so much; another factor was that it's quite easy to have a healthy diet if you eat a lot of these critters. (A veggie living in the west is liable to be pushed towards eating a lot of cheese and egg).

As for dinosaurs, I used to quite like chicken but it wasn't difficult to stop eating it, and I don't really miss it.

Consequently I ended up with a dividing line that's a good long way from my own species, but I can't really to justify the exact position where I draw the line. I fear that this is annoying and confusing to people: whilst I never describe myself as a vegetarian, people get confused as I'll sometimes ask for a vegetarian option, and this possibly screws things up for the public understanding of vegetarianism.

I've also come up with several post-hoc justifications, including the environmental argument that any reduction in meat eating is beneficial, and the idea that fish caught in the wild are essentially predated from their natural habitat whereas farmed animals are deliberately conceived and raised to be slaughtered.

Anyway... yeah, meat.
xtifr wrote:... and orthogon merely sounds undecided.

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Re: 1567: "Kitchen Tips"

Postby rmsgrey » Wed Aug 26, 2015 2:00 pm UTC

Whizbang wrote:
rmsgrey wrote:- and I know how to cope with undercooked meat should the situation arise...


Eat it?

That's what I do.


Depends on the meat and on the cooking technique - the time we barbecued a whole sheep on a slow motorised spit (adapted from an old washing machine), the serving technique was to carve off chunks to expose the not-yet-cooked meat - any undercooked carved chunks just got wrapped in foil and left near the coals to roast more.

In general, with pork and poultry, I'd want to make sure they are well cooked. Beef or lamb, it depends how hungry I am - and how raw it is...


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