1611: "Baking Soda and Vinegar"

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1611: "Baking Soda and Vinegar"

Postby The Moomin » Wed Dec 02, 2015 9:18 am UTC

Image

Title Text: "Sure, it may not meet science fair standards, but I want credit for getting my baking soda and vinegar mountain added to the Decade Volcanoes list."

You know what's actually really good? Baking soda and vinegar. It's a new crisp/potato chip flavour in Canada.
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Re: 1611: "Baking Soda and Vinegar"

Postby rhomboidal » Wed Dec 02, 2015 9:45 am UTC

Now I'm wondering if Pompeii was actually destroyed by a Diet Coke and Mentos stratovolcano.

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Re: 1611: "Baking Soda and Vinegar"

Postby Echo244 » Wed Dec 02, 2015 9:53 am UTC

I wish I had a daughter like this...

Also, I love Moomin's nod to 1609. Though I maintain that anyone who puts vinegar on either crisps or chips is utterly, utterly wrong.
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Re: 1611: "Baking Soda and Vinegar"

Postby Envelope Generator » Wed Dec 02, 2015 10:09 am UTC

So this is like the bottom-up version of 878?
I'm going to step off the LEM now... here we are, Pismo Beach and all the clams we can eat

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Re: 1611: "Baking Soda and Vinegar"

Postby cellocgw » Wed Dec 02, 2015 12:31 pm UTC

Echo244 wrote:. Though I maintain that anyone who puts vinegar on either crisps or chips is utterly, utterly wrong.


Fun History Fact: it wasn't taxes that led to the American Revolution, it was the Brits insisting on vinegar w/ chips rather than proper USA (which didn't exist yet) ketchup (which didn't exist yet).
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Re: 1611: "Baking Soda and Vinegar"

Postby KarenRei » Wed Dec 02, 2015 12:52 pm UTC

I've often wondered why you don't see more thermite volcanoes. Thermite's easy to make and it's far more geologically accurate. You could easily mix it with other common substances to create a chemically accurate lava of whatever variety you wanted - for example, quartz sand, quicklime, magnesia, a bit of baking soda (no vinegar), a bit of NPK fertilizer, a bit of sulfur... and with the right ratios you should have a pretty darn accurate volcano. You could even show the formation of various lava features, such as having it dump into water to form pillows.

Okay, a taaaaad more dangerous, but....

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Re: 1611: "Baking Soda and Vinegar"

Postby cellocgw » Wed Dec 02, 2015 2:05 pm UTC

KarenRei wrote:I've often wondered why you don't see more thermite volcanoes. Thermite's easy to make and it's far more geologically accurate. You could easily mix it with other common substances to create a chemically accurate lava of whatever variety you wanted - for example, quartz sand, quicklime, magnesia, a bit of baking soda (no vinegar), a bit of NPK fertilizer, a bit of sulfur... and with the right ratios you should have a pretty darn accurate volcano. You could even show the formation of various lava features, such as having it dump into water to form pillows.

Okay, a taaaaad more dangerous, but....


You hear that sound? No? That's because the latest generation of Black Helicopters is silent. Run while you can...
(Or get prepared to bring your volcano to the White House so Obama can praise you as a a leader in student science)
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Re: 1611: "Baking Soda and Vinegar"

Postby Heimhenge » Wed Dec 02, 2015 3:21 pm UTC

KarenRei wrote:I've often wondered why you don't see more thermite volcanoes. Thermite's easy to make and it's far more geologically accurate. You could easily mix it with other common substances to create a chemically accurate lava of whatever variety you wanted - for example, quartz sand, quicklime, magnesia, a bit of baking soda (no vinegar), a bit of NPK fertilizer, a bit of sulfur... and with the right ratios you should have a pretty darn accurate volcano. You could even show the formation of various lava features, such as having it dump into water to form pillows.

Okay, a taaaaad more dangerous, but....


I've judged many science fairs, and the vinegar & baking soda volcano is still a popular project for grade school students. Probably seen a dozen over the years, and always scored them on the low end regardless of how realistic the "mountain" looked. It's really not an "experiment" in the sense that you're testing a hypothesis. Everyone already knows what's gonna happen. If there were a science fair category called "model building" they might have their place. But a thermite volcano ... now that would be an experiment. Especially if the kid was trying to accurately simulate various lava types and behaviors by trying various ingredients. I'd give the basic concept an "A".
Last edited by Heimhenge on Wed Dec 02, 2015 5:23 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 1611: "Baking Soda and Vinegar"

Postby rmsgrey » Wed Dec 02, 2015 3:24 pm UTC

Does this mean that the teacher is related to beret guy?

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Re: 1611: "Baking Soda and Vinegar"

Postby Seamus » Wed Dec 02, 2015 6:09 pm UTC

Oh, baking soda and vinegar volcano, my very first science project. *sniff*

I got an A. :D

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Re: 1611: "Baking Soda and Vinegar"

Postby Mikeski » Wed Dec 02, 2015 7:09 pm UTC

Heimhenge wrote:I've judged many science fairs, and the vinegar & baking soda volcano is [...] not an "experiment" in the sense that you're testing a hypothesis.
In the earth-science sense, no. It's not much of a model of volcanic activity.

In the chemistry sense, yes.
Everyone already knows what's gonna happen.
If that's not the case for every experiment at the fair, then you live in a place with some astoundingly bright grade school students. They're all working on their doctoral dissertations already? :mrgreen:

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Re: 1611: "Baking Soda and Vinegar"

Postby KarenRei » Wed Dec 02, 2015 7:27 pm UTC

Heimhenge wrote:
KarenRei wrote:I've often wondered why you don't see more thermite volcanoes. Thermite's easy to make and it's far more geologically accurate. You could easily mix it with other common substances to create a chemically accurate lava of whatever variety you wanted - for example, quartz sand, quicklime, magnesia, a bit of baking soda (no vinegar), a bit of NPK fertilizer, a bit of sulfur... and with the right ratios you should have a pretty darn accurate volcano. You could even show the formation of various lava features, such as having it dump into water to form pillows.

Okay, a taaaaad more dangerous, but....


I've judged many science fairs, and the vinegar & baking soda volcano is still a popular project for grade school students. Probably seen a dozen over the years, and always scored them on the low end regardless of how realistic the "mountain" looked. It's really not an "experiment" in the sense that you're testing a hypothesis. Everyone already knows what's gonna happen. If there were a science fair category called "model building" they might have their place. But a thermite volcano ... now that would be an experiment. Especially if the kid was trying to accurately simulate various lava types and behaviors by trying various ingredients. I'd give the basic concept an "A".


One could really take the concept all sorts of places. For example, real-worl lava viscosities vary over quite a few orders of magnitude. So one can simulate the eruption and flow characteristics of a full-scale volcano erupting a high-viscosity lava by means of using a low-viscosity lava at a smaller (aka, science fair) scale - and the student could then in the discussion of their project talk about the Reynolds number and such, the behavior and properties of eruptions on the large scale (scaled down in their experiment), and the physical properties of the actual lava itself. The one experiment could cover multiple fields of science - physics, geology, chemistry, etc.

Again, though, this isn't exactly the sort of science project for a third grader to do. But I bet high schoolers would love it - probably too much ;) Must be done outdoors, of course!

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Re: 1611: "Baking Soda and Vinegar"

Postby Plasma Mongoose » Wed Dec 02, 2015 8:13 pm UTC

So she created the equivalent of a voodoo doll but in a form of a volcano.
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Re: 1611: "Baking Soda and Vinegar"

Postby orthogon » Wed Dec 02, 2015 8:41 pm UTC

cellocgw wrote:
Echo244 wrote:. Though I maintain that anyone who puts vinegar on either crisps or chips is utterly, utterly wrong.


Fun History Fact: it wasn't taxes that led to the American Revolution, it was the Brits insisting on vinegar w/ chips rather than proper USA (which didn't exist yet) ketchup (which didn't exist yet).

I don't mind so much that you don't get vinegar to put on your chips outside the UK; when in Rome and all that. What does really annoy me is when you don't get vinegar when you're in the UK. It's as bad as tearing up our red phone boxes or privatising the Royal Mail.
xtifr wrote:... and orthogon merely sounds undecided.

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Re: 1611: "Baking Soda and Vinegar"

Postby kodiac » Thu Dec 03, 2015 2:40 am UTC

Echo244 wrote:Though I maintain that anyone who puts vinegar on either crisps or chips is utterly, utterly wrong.

While I've never put vinegar on chips myself, one of my favourite flavours of packet chips is "salt and vinegar". In Australia, various major brands have had that flavour for many years.

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Re: 1611: "Baking Soda and Vinegar"

Postby ps.02 » Thu Dec 03, 2015 2:54 am UTC

kodiac wrote:one of my favourite flavours of packet chips is "salt and vinegar".

Which is a curious name for it, no? I've never seen any other "salt and ________" chips. With the others, salt is an unspoken default.

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Re: 1611: "Baking Soda and Vinegar"

Postby da Doctah » Thu Dec 03, 2015 3:48 am UTC

ps.02 wrote:I've never seen any other "salt and ________" chips. With the others, salt is an unspoken default.

I've seen "salt and cracked black pepper", and I think "lime and salt". I've also seen it further qualified as "sea salt".

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Re: 1611: "Baking Soda and Vinegar"

Postby dg61 » Thu Dec 03, 2015 4:05 am UTC

Heimhenge wrote:
KarenRei wrote:I've often wondered why you don't see more thermite volcanoes. Thermite's easy to make and it's far more geologically accurate. You could easily mix it with other common substances to create a chemically accurate lava of whatever variety you wanted - for example, quartz sand, quicklime, magnesia, a bit of baking soda (no vinegar), a bit of NPK fertilizer, a bit of sulfur... and with the right ratios you should have a pretty darn accurate volcano. You could even show the formation of various lava features, such as having it dump into water to form pillows.

Okay, a taaaaad more dangerous, but....


I've judged many science fairs, and the vinegar & baking soda volcano is still a popular project for grade school students. Probably seen a dozen over the years, and always scored them on the low end regardless of how realistic the "mountain" looked. It's really not an "experiment" in the sense that you're testing a hypothesis. Everyone already knows what's gonna happen. If there were a science fair category called "model building" they might have their place. But a thermite volcano ... now that would be an experiment. Especially if the kid was trying to accurately simulate various lava types and behaviors by trying various ingredients. I'd give the basic concept an "A".


Would it be higher-scoring if they actually tested different things; for example if the reaction only took place with the correct baking soda-vinegar ratio or if changing the ratio or amounts affects the reaction? That could be a good basic project, and could even be used to demonstrate some basic chemistry stuff like excess and limiting quantities(e.g. "we noticed that adding more vinegar stopped effecting the reaction past a certain point") or how reaction outputs scale with inputs? Of course, at that point it's really a project about vinegar/baking soda reactions.

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Re: 1611: "Baking Soda and Vinegar"

Postby sfmans » Thu Dec 03, 2015 9:01 am UTC

ps.02 wrote:
kodiac wrote:one of my favourite flavours of packet chips is "salt and vinegar".

Which is a curious name for it, no? I've never seen any other "salt and ________" chips. With the others, salt is an unspoken default.


Can you still get those packets of crisps with the little blue bag in them containing the salt, which you were meant to pour over the crisps yourself?

Like so many 'artisan' products, a marvellous way of charging the consumer more for the privilege of doing some of the manufacturing process themselves.

Spoiler:
like 'craft' beer for example, which is nearly all half-finished under-prepared dishwater that continues to ferment in your gut for several days after consumption, and has an effect on your bowels rather like the volcano in the cartoon

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Re: 1611: "Baking Soda and Vinegar"

Postby Neil_Boekend » Thu Dec 03, 2015 9:36 am UTC

sfmans wrote:
ps.02 wrote:
kodiac wrote:one of my favourite flavours of packet chips is "salt and vinegar".

Which is a curious name for it, no? I've never seen any other "salt and ________" chips. With the others, salt is an unspoken default.


Can you still get those packets of crisps with the little blue bag in them containing the salt, which you were meant to pour over the crisps yourself?

Like so many 'artisan' products, a marvellous way of charging the consumer more for the privilege of doing some of the manufacturing process themselves.
Bullshit. Separating food and salt is a good idea. Most people eat way to much salt and getting it off when an idiot manufacturer has put a ton on it is impossible. If the salt is separate from the real food this is no problem.
If you choose salt flavor over health then that is your choice (and it is a totally valid choice by the way) but don't force it on me (I don't know how to say that non-passive-aggressively. Sorry).

sfmans wrote:
Spoiler:
like 'craft' beer for example, which is nearly all half-finished under-prepared dishwater that continues to ferment in your gut for several days after consumption, and has an effect on your bowels rather like the volcano in the cartoon
I would hazard a guess that this is caused by the hops. Hops are a ye olde preservative that I expect can damage gut bacteria in high concentrations. Many craft beers seem to have more hops than malt in their brewing*. While IPA is a very popular class S beer it is very very hoppy.

*slight exageration
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Re: 1611: "Baking Soda and Vinegar"

Postby orthogon » Thu Dec 03, 2015 10:40 am UTC

da Doctah wrote:
ps.02 wrote:I've never seen any other "salt and ________" chips. With the others, salt is an unspoken default.

I've seen "salt and cracked black pepper", and I think "lime and salt". I've also seen it further qualified as "sea salt".

Definitions:
Spoiler:
In this post I shall be using the words in their British meaning: a chip is something like a fat french-fry of around 10-15mm square cross-section, served hot; crisp shall be used to refer to the thin things that come in packets and are served cold and are called "potato chips" in the US.

The way my mum tells it is this: In the old days (the '50s?), "crisps" were crispy bits of deep-fried potato that got left at the bottom of the chip fryer at the [fish and] chip shop. They'd be cheaper than proper chips, since they were a kind of by-product, but apart from that they'd be served in paper like chips. British chip shops always have big bottles of vinegar and salt shakers on the counter, so naturally you'd add this yourself, or the shop person would add it for you. (The phrase "salt and vinegar?" is one of those utterances that somebody in the business says so many times a day that it's become a single slurred word, "salvinga?")

The crispy nature meant that they were still good to eat when cold - unlike chips, which tend to go a bit soggy - so somebody realised that you could sell them as a cold snack in packets. Since you weren't buying this in the chip shop, the salt had to be provided in a sachet for you to add; presumably technology of the time didn't allow for vinegar to be provided in a similar way. Later came "Ready Salted" crisps, where the salt had been already added for your convenience; and at some point they worked out how to add salt and vinegar in the factory. Adding vinegar is probably more complicated because you have to add a liquid whilst maintaining crispiness (in fact modern S&V crisps contain "dried vinegar" and citric acid). This merely brought the crisp back to where chips had always been, hence "salt and vinegar" was the obvious description.

Later still came other flavours; many purists still believe that Ready Salted and Salt and Vinegar are the only acceptable types of crisp. Some even frown on the latter.
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Re: 1611: "Baking Soda and Vinegar"

Postby PM 2Ring » Thu Dec 03, 2015 11:29 am UTC

FWIW, "dried vinegar" is sodium acetate, the salt produced when you react vinegar with sodium bicarbonate. Wikipedia says: "Vinegar is roughly 3–9% acetic acid by volume, making acetic acid the main component of vinegar apart from water". Pure acetic acid can be prepared in crystalline form - it has a melting point of 16°C. But you wouldn't put it in your chips / crisps: it's rather corrosive, and does nasty things to skin & mucous membranes.

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Re: 1611: "Baking Soda and Vinegar"

Postby orthogon » Thu Dec 03, 2015 2:00 pm UTC

PM 2Ring wrote:FWIW, "dried vinegar" is sodium acetate, the salt produced when you react vinegar with sodium bicarbonate.

Thanks - informative and (coincidentally, I fear) right back on topic; i.e. dried vinegar is the end product of a Science-Project Volcano.

I'm struggling to remember my A-level Chemistry, but if I'm not mistaken, sodium acetate would be a salt of a strong base and a weak acid, and hence would form an alkaline solution. Is the citric acid added to make the mixture acidic overall, so that it tickles the "sour" receptor on the tongue, whilst retaining the acetate molecule/ion that the nose recognises?

ETA: It was "ethanoic acid" and "ethanoate" by the time I did A-level, but those old names are more ... vinegary, somehow.
xtifr wrote:... and orthogon merely sounds undecided.

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Re: 1611: "Baking Soda and Vinegar"

Postby MOH » Thu Dec 03, 2015 2:16 pm UTC

orthogon wrote:Later still came other flavours; many purists still believe that Ready Salted and Salt and Vinegar are the only acceptable types of crisp. Some even frown on the latter.


Salt & Vinegar and Cheese & Onion are the only truly acceptable flavours.

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Re: 1611: "Baking Soda and Vinegar"

Postby Heimhenge » Thu Dec 03, 2015 3:22 pm UTC

dg61 wrote:
Heimhenge wrote:
KarenRei wrote:I've often wondered why you don't see more thermite volcanoes. Thermite's easy to make and it's far more geologically accurate. You could easily mix it with other common substances to create a chemically accurate lava of whatever variety you wanted - for example, quartz sand, quicklime, magnesia, a bit of baking soda (no vinegar), a bit of NPK fertilizer, a bit of sulfur... and with the right ratios you should have a pretty darn accurate volcano. You could even show the formation of various lava features, such as having it dump into water to form pillows.

Okay, a taaaaad more dangerous, but....


I've judged many science fairs, and the vinegar & baking soda volcano is still a popular project for grade school students. Probably seen a dozen over the years, and always scored them on the low end regardless of how realistic the "mountain" looked. It's really not an "experiment" in the sense that you're testing a hypothesis. Everyone already knows what's gonna happen. If there were a science fair category called "model building" they might have their place. But a thermite volcano ... now that would be an experiment. Especially if the kid was trying to accurately simulate various lava types and behaviors by trying various ingredients. I'd give the basic concept an "A".


Would it be higher-scoring if they actually tested different things; for example if the reaction only took place with the correct baking soda-vinegar ratio or if changing the ratio or amounts affects the reaction? That could be a good basic project, and could even be used to demonstrate some basic chemistry stuff like excess and limiting quantities(e.g. "we noticed that adding more vinegar stopped effecting the reaction past a certain point") or how reaction outputs scale with inputs? Of course, at that point it's really a project about vinegar/baking soda reactions.


Apologize for the multiple nested quotes. Not sure if there's any unwritten rule about limits on that, but in this case it kind keeps the whole sub-topic in context. As you can see from my post count I don't hang out here nearly as much as most members. That said ...

Hell yes, I'd give a project like that described by dg61 an A grade (if they got the numbers right) and a B for even attempting it. But as dg61 noted, it would then be more a chemistry experiment as opposed to "just a volcano simulator." But most gradeschoolers don't know jack about chemistry so, not surprisingly, I've never seen that approach taken. Well, there's always a few precocious gradeschoolers (some of whom may be reading this), but you'll find most of them in private or magnets schools. And I work mostly with the public schools.

High school students reading this forum take note: Do dg61's version and title it "The classic volcano simulator quantified" or "Volcano v2" or something else creative and descriptive of your slant. Could be a winner even at that level, even though it's pretty basic chemistry, since "creativity" is always part of the score. To dg61's ideas, I'd also add a comparison between both preps of baking soda (NaHCO3) which comes in both granular and powdered forms ... if the student did the math to estimate the difference in reactive surface area between the forms, and how that affected reaction rate, even better.

Would be cool if that showed up in next year's science fairs, with a citation to XKCD.

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Re: 1611: "Baking Soda and Vinegar"

Postby rmsgrey » Thu Dec 03, 2015 4:06 pm UTC

MOH wrote:
orthogon wrote:Later still came other flavours; many purists still believe that Ready Salted and Salt and Vinegar are the only acceptable types of crisp. Some even frown on the latter.


Salt & Vinegar and Cheese & Onion are the only truly acceptable flavours.


I've always had a soft spot for Prawn Cocktail

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Re: 1611: "Baking Soda and Vinegar"

Postby Epod » Thu Dec 03, 2015 4:16 pm UTC

I always thought that there should be a special award at school science fairs for "Largest Number of Hazmat Emergency Vehicles Summoned". I found the perfect project in a book of old Scientific American "Amateur Scientist" columns...it involved building a particle accelerator. There was a huge voltage (from a Van de Graaff generator), it used glass 5 gallon water bottles as a vacuum reservoir (an implosion hazard that could throw glass shards a great distance), it used lots of liquid mercury, and - as the article thoughtfully warned readers - if the beam was pointed at anything higher in the periodic table than aluminium or so - the target could re-radiate energy in the X-ray band at dangerous levels.

Sadly, by the time my daughter was in high school, she had learned over the years to be skeptical of dad's project suggestions. She won a few ribbons, but the projects were dull enough that I can't remember them, and not a single emergency vehicle showed up. :(

I'm patiently waiting on adventurous grandkids.

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Re: 1611: "Baking Soda and Vinegar"

Postby drachefly » Thu Dec 03, 2015 5:27 pm UTC

Mikeski wrote:
Heimhenge wrote:I've judged many science fairs, and the vinegar & baking soda volcano is [...] not an "experiment" in the sense that you're testing a hypothesis.
In the earth-science sense, no. It's not much of a model of volcanic activity.

In the chemistry sense, yes.
Everyone already knows what's gonna happen.
If that's not the case for every experiment at the fair, then you live in a place with some astoundingly bright grade school students. They're all working on their doctoral dissertations already? :mrgreen:


I was a judge for a science fair gathering students from a variety of schools. Some were presenting work they had done in actual laboratories, which... okay, so they were bench monkeys. Among those who did something where I'd guess they didn't already know the answer, the most impressive one did a home test to demonstrate the amount of BPA present in various baby formulas. She had decent sample sizes and tested across different lots.

Another tested how well different solar cells dealt with cloudiness. It turned out that they all came out around the same, but it was a worthwhile thing to check, you know?

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Re: 1611: "Baking Soda and Vinegar"

Postby pkcommando » Thu Dec 03, 2015 6:19 pm UTC

rmsgrey wrote:I've always had a soft spot for Prawn Cocktail

I've found Roast Chicken (Tayto's Brand) to be unsettlingly good.

It deserves a medal for being the tastiest thing that tastes nothing like what it's supposed to.

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Re: 1611: "Baking Soda and Vinegar"

Postby sotanaht » Fri Dec 04, 2015 1:38 am UTC

So I'm wondering if crops would die because of the shade, or the salt.

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Re: 1611: "Baking Soda and Vinegar"

Postby KittenKaboodle » Fri Dec 04, 2015 2:32 am UTC

Epod wrote: I found the perfect project in a book of old Scientific American "Amateur Scientist" columns...it involved building a particle accelerator.


I remember that from the original magazine! well, it was oldish copy my father had, I didn't see it on the news stand. Once you have your mercury diffusion pump going, there was also the electron microscope project. I don't remember too many more. There was the HeNe laser, and the moderate power CO2 laser, used to be that glass working in one basement was considered normal. The electret project involved high voltage, but using a pencil line on paper for a current limiting resistor (if one didn't have a gigaohm high voltage resistor in one's junk box) probably helped a bit on the safety front. The diffraction grating ruling machine was not in the same deadly class, but was still interesting, used an Michelson interferometer for spacing and vacuum tube electronics. The discussion of lapping the diamond stylus was interesting, is there an app for that?

If you had a book you probably didn't get the advertisements, I remember the full page adds for magnesium (metal, for structural uses), and Monel Metal, of course one can't forget the Unimat lathe, they were a consistent advertiser as was the Questar Cassegrain telescope. Oh, and the adds for Platinum! "When anything else is too expensive" (for crucibles and the like)

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Re: 1611: "Baking Soda and Vinegar"

Postby Epod » Fri Dec 04, 2015 3:38 am UTC

KittenKaboodle -

I found the book online

http://www.sciencemadness.org/library/b ... entist.pdf

The project you and I remember starts at page 365 of the PDF (p 344 of the book itself). "For less than the average cost of a set of golf clubs, you can equip yourself for playing with electrons - the minute "spheres" surrounding the atom. With this apparatus you can transmute the elements, alter the properties of some common materials and , incidentally, learn much at first hand about the structure of matter."

While I never got my daughter to attempt the particle accelerator, we did make some important discoveries - including that Sigma Aldrich won't ship to a residential address, and that the Drug Enforcement Agency discourages people from trying to buy as much iodine as we did the year her project involved a some iodine clock reactions...good times.

ijuin
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Re: 1611: "Baking Soda and Vinegar"

Postby ijuin » Fri Dec 04, 2015 4:40 am UTC

KittenKaboodle wrote: Oh, and the adds for Platinum! "When anything else is too expensive" (for crucibles and the like)


"When anything else is too expensive"? Isn't platinum more expensive than gold? Unless you're dealing with really rare elements like iridium or the "rare earths", it's pretty darned expensive.

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keithl
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Re: 1611: "Baking Soda and Vinegar"

Postby keithl » Fri Dec 04, 2015 5:45 am UTC

I fondly remember the model supernova I made for my last science fair. Authentic 1/1000 scale. I made it off the planet Krypton in time, so did some brat kid named Kal-el. He had a better public relations team.

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Re: 1611: "Baking Soda and Vinegar"

Postby KittenKaboodle » Fri Dec 04, 2015 5:59 am UTC

ijuin wrote:
KittenKaboodle wrote: Oh, and the adds for Platinum! "When anything else is too expensive" (for crucibles and the like)


"When anything else is too expensive"? Isn't platinum more expensive than gold? Unless you're dealing with really rare elements like iridium or the "rare earths", it's pretty darned expensive.


You may have missed the "crucibles and the like" if anything else is going to either melt and/or contaminate the Über expensive* stuff you are working with, then the cost of platinum may very well be unimportant. Besides, you don't just throw away the crucible after you finish your batch of rubies. Anyway, I was quoting the slogan for historical purposes.

*or even just mass produced, I think platinum nozzles or whatever they call them are used for things as mundane as fiberglass.

ijuin
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Re: 1611: "Baking Soda and Vinegar"

Postby ijuin » Fri Dec 04, 2015 9:54 am UTC

Ah, sorry. Having never actually had access to a really large R&D budget, I fail utterly at comprehending equipment costs much above a few thousand dollars per month.

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Re: 1611: "Baking Soda and Vinegar"

Postby CharlieP » Fri Dec 04, 2015 12:16 pm UTC

MOH wrote:
orthogon wrote:Later still came other flavours; many purists still believe that Ready Salted and Salt and Vinegar are the only acceptable types of crisp. Some even frown on the latter.


Salt & Vinegar and Cheese & Onion are the only truly acceptable flavours.


If I had the power to uninvent anything, it would be cheese and onion crisps.

Failing that, I'd make it illegal to mix crisps together in unlabelled bowls at parties.
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Re: 1611: "Baking Soda and Vinegar"

Postby rmsgrey » Fri Dec 04, 2015 1:32 pm UTC

CharlieP wrote:Failing that, I'd make it illegal to mix crisps together in unlabelled bowls at parties.


Yeah, if you're going to mix unlabelled crisps, you should at least get some weird flavours to make it interesting...

xtifr
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Re: 1611: "Baking Soda and Vinegar"

Postby xtifr » Fri Dec 04, 2015 7:21 pm UTC

"Rare" earths are not particularly rare—platinum is far more rare. The problem is that they're not often found in concentrated deposits, so they're hard to gather, economically. But even so, platinum is more expensive for a reason.

Vinegar is far better on chips/fries/whatever-you-callums than the sugary horror that is American Ketchup. If I wanted wet tomato candy (*shudder*), I'd order wet tomato candy.

As for whether a science fair volcano is about geology or chemistry, well, the whole question reminds me of the sequence in Gunnerkrigg Court where Kat does a science fair project on the effects of zero gravity on protein growth, and then gets mad when everyone pays more attention to the anti-gravity machine she built than to her actual experiment!
"[T]he author has followed the usual practice of contemporary books on graph theory, namely to use words that are similar but not identical to the terms used in other books on graph theory."
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ijuin
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Re: 1611: "Baking Soda and Vinegar"

Postby ijuin » Sat Dec 05, 2015 1:33 am UTC

Unfortunately that is what happens when you use technology that is not commercially available--everybody wants to know where/when they can buy it.


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