1629: "Tools"

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glasnt
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1629: "Tools"

Postby glasnt » Wed Jan 13, 2016 8:34 am UTC

Image

Alt: I make tools for managing job-hunting sites for people who make tools for managing job-hunting sites for people who make tools for ...

Link http://xkcd.com/1629/


hi joee <3

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Re: 1629: "Tools"

Postby ThemePark » Wed Jan 13, 2016 9:20 am UTC

glasnt wrote:hi joee <3


I have actually missed seeing this. ^^
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Wildcard
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Re: 1629: "Tools"

Postby Wildcard » Wed Jan 13, 2016 9:21 am UTC

I've been thinking about this myself a lot lately. (GOOMHR....)

The truth is, you could say the same about ANY profession. The only criterion for value is whether other people find it valuable and are willing to give you something valuable (that you think is valuable) in return. Basic of any economy is exchange of production items or services.

With computers, though, people completely outside the computer world try to trace the value chain outside of computers, to something they can understand...and it often doesn't go outside of computers. People find it valuable to make computers do stuff, is my conclusion.

Thought experiment: Imagine explaining the purpose of any business that you see driving down the street, to a being who operated without any sort of material body. How about a restaurant?

Spoiler:
It gives people food, which gives them energy, so they can work at their jobs—jobs like doctors (another body-oriented one) or personal fitness trainers, or baby sitters, or divorce lawyers, or constructing apartment buildings for people to sleep in (with their bodies) or cleaning roads so that people can transport stuff (and bodies) along the roads, or....

About the only things which can be produced that literally have nothing to do with bodies are products relating to pursuits of the mind, arguably including computers and definitely including art.
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Re: 1629: "Tools"

Postby eviloatmeal » Wed Jan 13, 2016 9:41 am UTC

"If you wish to monitor the deployment of software, you must first invent the universe."
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The Moomin
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Re: 1629: "Tools"

Postby The Moomin » Wed Jan 13, 2016 10:15 am UTC

It keeps me from going out on the streets and harassing random people.
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Re: 1629: "Tools"

Postby blackhat » Wed Jan 13, 2016 10:48 am UTC

In case anyone is in doubt: this joke is funny because it's true.

No one would make software this way if it weren't for the fact that companies are not software making machines, they are money making machines - a subtle difference but enough to spawn this kind of sick system. Only a zombie apocalypse (or GNU's total victory) can save us.

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Re: 1629: "Tools"

Postby Lazy Tommy » Wed Jan 13, 2016 1:18 pm UTC

Wildcard wrote:About the only things which can be produced that literally have nothing to do with bodies are products relating to pursuits of the mind, arguably including computers and definitely including art.

But the point of art is that it triggers emotions, and those are physical feelings.
I don't think disembodied beings could exist, given the laws of physics as we know them, but assuming they could for the sake of argument, would they have emotions? What purpose would they serve?

blackhat wrote:No one would make software this way if it weren't for the fact that companies are not software making machines, they are money making machines - a subtle difference but enough to spawn this kind of sick system.

Eh, I dunno. I've been making tools for such money making machines for years, and it seems to me that the reason they find it worthwhile to pay people like me to do that kind of work is that, time and again, the need will arise for something that is so unique, to a highly specific kind of workflow, that the odds that something usable exists and can be found, are effectively zero. And trying to explain my job to people outside my field does feel an awful lot like this comic. 8-)

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Re: 1629: "Tools"

Postby cellocgw » Wed Jan 13, 2016 1:32 pm UTC

eviloatmeal wrote:"If you wish to monitor the deployment of software, you must first invent the universe."

Well, if you're going to go down that road,
"I have monitored your tool to monitor tools. Pray I do not recurse further."
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Re: 1629: "Tools"

Postby Jorpho » Wed Jan 13, 2016 2:20 pm UTC

Makes me think about a classic old piece, Why I Hate Frameworks (the hammer factory bit).

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Re: 1629: "Tools"

Postby eviloatmeal » Wed Jan 13, 2016 2:22 pm UTC

cellocgw wrote:"I have monitored your tool to monitor tools. Pray I do not recurse further."

"Oh. They've encased it in a class. It should be quite well protected. If it survived the refactoring process, that is."
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rhhardin
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Re: 1629: "Tools"

Postby rhhardin » Wed Jan 13, 2016 3:39 pm UTC

There''s a units problem unless it terminates.

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Re: 1629: "Tools"

Postby SuicideJunkie » Wed Jan 13, 2016 4:16 pm UTC

"Now witness the bandwidth of this fully TESTED and OPERATIONAL perl script!"

dg61
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Re: 1629: "Tools"

Postby dg61 » Wed Jan 13, 2016 4:20 pm UTC

Lazy Tommy wrote:
Wildcard wrote:About the only things which can be produced that literally have nothing to do with bodies are products relating to pursuits of the mind, arguably including computers and definitely including art.

But the point of art is that it triggers emotions, and those are physical feelings.
I don't think disembodied beings could exist, given the laws of physics as we know them, but assuming they could for the sake of argument, would they have emotions? What purpose would they serve?


Of course, art is also (usually) made of physical materials and relies for its effect on physical perception; its effects likewise are linked to its physical properties-it's media, size, shape, texture, etc. Look at for example a sculpture in bronze versus a sculpture in marble.

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Flumble
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Re: 1629: "Tools"

Postby Flumble » Wed Jan 13, 2016 6:23 pm UTC

Jorpho wrote:Makes me think about a classic old piece, Why I Hate Frameworks (the hammer factory bit).

Good to see that one's still going over the internet. :lol: (I have absolutely no idea when I first read that story; probably 5 years ago as opposed to the 10-year age of the article itself)
Luckily, Java nowadays features a lot more friendly abstractions than using factories for everything. Is it true that factories exist because there were no generics/templates/kinds back in the day?

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Re: 1629: "Tools"

Postby rmsgrey » Wed Jan 13, 2016 7:34 pm UTC

I press buttons on one device in order to cause patterns of light on another device to change. If I do it right, then I can also indirectly cause patterns of light on lots of other devices to change, but only if the people near them press the right buttons in the right order.

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Coyoty
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Re: 1629: "Tools"

Postby Coyoty » Wed Jan 13, 2016 8:29 pm UTC

When you write training tools for people who write training tools, it's tutorials all the way down.

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Re: 1629: "Tools"

Postby KittenKaboodle » Wed Jan 13, 2016 8:56 pm UTC

rmsgrey wrote:I press buttons on one device in order to cause patterns of light on another device to change. If I do it right, then I can also indirectly cause patterns of light on lots of other devices to change, but only if the people near them press the right buttons in the right order.


I think you forgot this link: https://xkcd.com/722/

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Re: 1629: "Tools"

Postby rmsgrey » Wed Jan 13, 2016 8:57 pm UTC

KittenKaboodle wrote:
rmsgrey wrote:I press buttons on one device in order to cause patterns of light on another device to change. If I do it right, then I can also indirectly cause patterns of light on lots of other devices to change, but only if the people near them press the right buttons in the right order.


I think you forgot this link: https://xkcd.com/722/


I decided to crowd-source it

a9s
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Re: 1629: "Tools"

Postby a9s » Thu Jan 14, 2016 12:38 am UTC

Surely at some level of meta you can take a one size fits all approach. I don't know much about this area of software but it can't be that complicated, right?

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Durandal_1707
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Re: 1629: "Tools"

Postby Durandal_1707 » Thu Jan 14, 2016 12:52 am UTC

By the raging fury of the sky demon, you ask too many questions. You have seen, you have admired. Be satisfied and ask no more!

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Re: 1629: "Tools"

Postby Copper Bezel » Thu Jan 14, 2016 4:12 am UTC

Coyoty wrote:When you write training tools for people who write training tools, it's tutorials all the way down.

Testudine-driven development.
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Re: 1629: "Tools"

Postby TheAbstractor » Thu Jan 14, 2016 6:21 pm UTC

Just like grandmother during the war.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xrfbKTG_xE

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Re: 1629: "Tools"

Postby orthogon » Wed Feb 03, 2016 2:46 pm UTC

Scanning the titles of the comics in the forum, I'd forgotten what this was about, but I remember hoping that it was going to be an homage to Gary Larson's classic Cow Tools. Maybe in a sense it is: puppet, jenkins, autoconf, git, docker, rails, etc. are as mysterious to most people as the implements in the Far Side comic. At least one of Larson's tools kind of looks like a saw.
xtifr wrote:... and orthogon merely sounds undecided.


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