1641: "Hot Dogs"

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1641: "Hot Dogs"

Postby Eutychus » Wed Feb 10, 2016 7:02 am UTC

Image

Title Text: Okay, I'm just gonna order pizza, and let's never talk about this again.

I don't get this one, and I'm not sure I want to.
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Re: 1641: "Hot Dogs"

Postby J%r » Wed Feb 10, 2016 7:22 am UTC

I remember this line from 'The father of the bride' (Well, without the condom part). But I suppose it is to make people eat 30 hot dogs.

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Re: 1641: "Hot Dogs"

Postby Flumble » Wed Feb 10, 2016 7:25 am UTC

Maybe out-of-frame guy knows, but I sure as hell don't.

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Re: 1641: "Hot Dogs"

Postby dtilque » Wed Feb 10, 2016 8:31 am UTC

It's a subversion of a classic conundrum
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Re: 1641: "Hot Dogs"

Postby Eutychus » Wed Feb 10, 2016 8:37 am UTC

Well, thank you, that's cleared everything up nicely. Thread over?
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Re: 1641: "Hot Dogs"

Postby Neil_Boekend » Wed Feb 10, 2016 8:45 am UTC

dtilque wrote:It's a subversion of a classic conundrum

It did save the wise hermit from his task in one Animaniacs episode.
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Re: 1641: "Hot Dogs"

Postby brandbarth » Wed Feb 10, 2016 8:48 am UTC

[...]
Last edited by brandbarth on Wed Feb 10, 2016 9:34 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 1641: "Hot Dogs"

Postby dtilque » Wed Feb 10, 2016 9:17 am UTC

Eutychus wrote:Well, thank you, that's cleared everything up nicely. Thread over?


Well, of course, Cecil always clears things up.


BTW, I assume you're the famous (infamous?) Eutychus from the SDMB, right? If so, it was a pleasure to have relieved your perplexity.
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Re: 1641: "Hot Dogs"

Postby Eutychus » Wed Feb 10, 2016 9:44 am UTC

dtilque wrote:BTW, I assume you're the famous (infamous?) Eutychus from the SDMB, right? If so, it was a pleasure to have relieved your perplexity.


Nope, that ain't me. I'm famous/infamous here, home to not a few xkcd fans.
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Re: 1641: "Hot Dogs"

Postby da Doctah » Wed Feb 10, 2016 11:50 am UTC

Why do hot dogs come in packs of ten, when no normal person can eat more than three or four of them at once, tops?

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Re: 1641: "Hot Dogs"

Postby orthogon » Wed Feb 10, 2016 12:14 pm UTC

I always thought a "hot dog" was the entire "sandwich", sausage+bun. The sausage itself is a frankfurter, a wiener or just a sausage. Is it in fact the case that a hot dog is just the sausage; it's just that they always come in a bun?

Over here condoms come in packs of three or big boxes of, I think, twelve. YMMV but I've generally found that three is enough to get through a night. (Or, these days, a fortnight).
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Re: 1641: "Hot Dogs"

Postby cellocgw » Wed Feb 10, 2016 12:31 pm UTC

It could be worse -- what if hot dogs came in packages of 10 but hot dog buns came in packages of 4*π ? Then you could never buy enough packages to match all hot dogs to a bun.
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Re: 1641: "Hot Dogs"

Postby Soupspoon » Wed Feb 10, 2016 12:43 pm UTC

orthogon wrote:I always thought a "hot dog" was the entire "sandwich", sausage+bun. The sausage itself is a frankfurter, a wiener or just a sausage. Is it in fact the case that a hot dog is just the sausage; it's just that they always come in a bun?

Well, the bread is described as a "hot dog bun", i.e. the bread for a hot dog, but whether that's because it's the bread intended to hold hot dog (that is a sausage) or the bread that is intended to form the hot dog (that is a completed sandwich) is probably something that has become ambiguous over time. Where confusion could arise the "hot dog sausage" (or wiener, or whatever) is the name specifically for the meat-tube. (FCVO 'meat'.)

Consider also burgers. Holding a "burger patty" inside a "burger bap" creates a "burger" (ignoring for now that this is a contraction of "hamburger", which is actually a toponym for the food archetype and not a description in itself), and yet you'd cook your "burgers" (the patties) on a barbecue without an expectation that the bread component (never mind the vegetables and other components) would be part of that same cooking process.

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Re: 1641: "Hot Dogs"

Postby pkcommando » Wed Feb 10, 2016 1:08 pm UTC

All of my hot dogs come in packages of 8 these days, but I now have to be careful not to buy New England style buns, which come in packages of 6. And that's done solely to piss off the rest of America[no citation needed].

New Englander 1: Well, we'll shave off the sides of the buns.
New Englander 2: Sensible, sensible. We don't really need all that bread, do we?
NE 1: And then sell them -- in packages of 6.
NE 2: We're selling them less bread already and it makes the mismatch worse. Why? WHYYYYY??
NE 1: *5 minutes of maniacal laughter* And now you know too much.
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Re: 1641: "Hot Dogs"

Postby dp2 » Wed Feb 10, 2016 1:42 pm UTC

Soupspoon wrote:
orthogon wrote:I always thought a "hot dog" was the entire "sandwich", sausage+bun. The sausage itself is a frankfurter, a wiener or just a sausage. Is it in fact the case that a hot dog is just the sausage; it's just that they always come in a bun?

Well, the bread is described as a "hot dog bun", i.e. the bread for a hot dog, but whether that's because it's the bread intended to hold hot dog (that is a sausage) or the bread that is intended to form the hot dog (that is a completed sandwich) is probably something that has become ambiguous over time. Where confusion could arise the "hot dog sausage" (or wiener, or whatever) is the name specifically for the meat-tube. (FCVO 'meat'.)

The sausages are usually sold in packages of "Hot Dogs", without the bun. Also, such treats as "hot dog on a stick" exist apart from the bun.

"Hamburger" is a little more interesting. I don't often hear a beef patty referred to as "a hamburger", as you say; "a hamburger" strongly implies a bun and toppings. But the uncooked ground beef is often "hamburger", no article.

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Re: 1641: "Hot Dogs"

Postby rmsgrey » Wed Feb 10, 2016 1:50 pm UTC

J%r wrote:I remember this line from 'The father of the bride' (Well, without the condom part). But I suppose it is to make people eat 30 hot dogs.


I'm familiar with it (the version with the buns rather than the condoms) from The Bulletproof Monk, where our hero attempts to answer it to the eponymous Monk's satisfaction several times over the course of the movie.

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Re: 1641: "Hot Dogs"

Postby peregrine_crow » Wed Feb 10, 2016 2:06 pm UTC

It (the original conundrum) is obviously to keep a variant of this cycle going.
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Re: 1641: "Hot Dogs"

Postby Soupspoon » Wed Feb 10, 2016 2:25 pm UTC

dp2 wrote:The sausages are usually sold in packages of "Hot Dogs", without the bun. Also, such treats as "hot dog on a stick" exist apart from the bun.
"Where confusion could arise...". If you call out to the vendor "can I have a hot dog?" then he's probably not going to pass you just the sausage1.

"Hamburger" is a little more interesting. I don't often hear a beef patty referred to as "a hamburger", as you say; "a hamburger" strongly implies a bun and toppings. But the uncooked ground beef is often "hamburger", no article.

I don't think it's entirely terminologically consistent around my way (ol' Blighty), but outside of other context "a hamburger" would be the sandwich and we'd generally talk of "hamburger meat" for the uncooked (and unformed) meat-material. "Pass me some hamburger" would be a strange construction but would doubtless indicate I was supposed to convey a quantity of the basic meat-stuff while "Pass me some hamburgers" would, if there was a logical choice between whole sandwich and lone patties, probably indicate a selection of the former (pretty much as per "Pass me some burgers", perhaps the more common form).

(Unless the request came from the guy standing at the barbecue, whose lack would usually have been of uncooked patties (or else buns for the newly at-least-half-cooked patties that he was distributing, in which case "buns/baps/bread/whatever" would have been his natural request), ready for him to convert into the freshly-scorched versions, as the first part of the process that will likely result in their entombment within whatever leavened container might have been bought in for the occasion. A call by such an expert-of-the-exothermically-excited-eating-experience for a plated pile of complete burger-sandwiches (or even a single and/or specific one) would likely involve further context. And/or pointed gesticulation because he'd forgotten to retain his own 'working lunch' in his enthusiasm to serve the delicacies. And/or him having just been informed that the crunchy-charcoal-on-the-outside meat-discs were a little too pink on the inside, necessitating his further and more scrupulous attentions upon them.)


1 Although when I was working in Germany, and still getting used the lingo (that I've now mostly forgotten again!) I thought I had the perfect opportunity to avoid saying anything as complex as 'hanchenbrustfillet mit gemusen und reis'/whatever at the office canteen when the person in front asked for what I was at that moment also thinking of having. «Und wieder fur mich, bitte» (or however that went/is spelt, again, given how rusty I now am!), I said, intending something along the lines of "And again for me, please", albeit in somewhat Pidgin-Deutsch. But I must have been a bit nasal in my pronunciation, as I was handed a plate with a single sausage on it. The result of "A (wiener-)sausage for me, please", in other words (It was more of a wurst than a wiener, but I was so obviously ein typische Englander that the server went for his own best interpretation of what he thought he'd heard.)

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Re: 1641: "Hot Dogs"

Postby Quey » Wed Feb 10, 2016 2:55 pm UTC

orthogon wrote:I always thought a "hot dog" was the entire "sandwich", sausage+bun.


Tread lightly. The debate over whether a hot dog is a sandwich rages on, even after some hot dog industry group said last November that it is not a sandwich, due to some critical USDA classification or some such.

I've always thought it strange to call hot dogs sandwiches. Hamburgers too, but that makes a lot more sense. But if you go into "cereal is soup" and "salad is anything", people can get really defensive.

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Re: 1641: "Hot Dogs"

Postby orthogon » Wed Feb 10, 2016 3:13 pm UTC

Quey wrote:
orthogon wrote:I always thought a "hot dog" was the entire "sandwich", sausage+bun.


Tread lightly. The debate over whether a hot dog is a sandwich rages on, even after some hot dog industry group said last November that it is not a sandwich, due to some critical USDA classification or some such.

I've always thought it strange to call hot dogs sandwiches. Hamburgers too, but that makes a lot more sense. But if you go into "cereal is soup" and "salad is anything", people can get really defensive.

I had no idea about that, but something must have made me put the "sandwich" in scare-quotes. As previously mentioned, I find the word to be ludicrous corporate-speak when used by McDonalds to refer to a hamburger, and extending it to refer to a hot dog was intended to be even more absurd; little did I know that it formed the focus of some extended legal debate.

The hot dogs my mum used to make would have used ordinary British sausages rather than the frankfurter-style jobs, and we'd be more likely to refer to the "bun" as a "roll". This meant that a sausage in a roll was a hot dog, even though a slice of bacon in a roll would be a bacon roll, because a sausage roll was already defined as sausage meat baked in pastry. Then there's a sausage dog, which is something else altogether.
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Re: 1641: "Hot Dogs"

Postby CharlieP » Wed Feb 10, 2016 3:57 pm UTC

Soupspoon wrote:Consider also burgers. Holding a "burger patty" inside a "burger bap" creates a "burger" (ignoring for now that this is a contraction of "hamburger", which is actually a toponym for the food archetype and not a description in itself), and yet you'd cook your "burgers" (the patties) on a barbecue without an expectation that the bread component (never mind the vegetables and other components) would be part of that same cooking process.


Don't forget that in the "right" (or wrong) places in the UK you can order burger and chips, where no bun is expected. Though in this context "burger" is of course short for beefburger.
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Re: 1641: "Hot Dogs"

Postby belliott4488 » Wed Feb 10, 2016 6:00 pm UTC

C'mon, get with it - it's called "sous vide."

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Re: 1641: "Hot Dogs"

Postby dp2 » Wed Feb 10, 2016 7:02 pm UTC

Soupspoon wrote:
dp2 wrote:The sausages are usually sold in packages of "Hot Dogs", without the bun. Also, such treats as "hot dog on a stick" exist apart from the bun.
"Where confusion could arise...". If you call out to the vendor "can I have a hot dog?" then he's probably not going to pass you just the sausage1.

True. I think the upshot is, though, that the name for the meat is "hot dog". 99% of the time, a served hot dog will include the bun, but if there's no bun, it's still a hot dog.

Similarly spaghetti and meatballs. I'd be shocked to order spaghetti and meatballs and receive it with no tomato sauce on top. But if I say "Hold the sauce", what I'm left with is still spaghetti and meatballs.

I said I don't usually hear the patties called "burgers", but that's not true. I decide to put some burgers on the grill. Even if I do toast the buns as well, it's not as an assembled sandwich.

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Re: 1641: "Hot Dogs"

Postby Envelope Generator » Wed Feb 10, 2016 8:06 pm UTC

dtilque wrote:It's a subversion of a classic conundrum


Here's another conundrum: if hot dogs and buns come in packs of mismatched number, why doesn't a competing producer bring out a bun pack with the same amount of buns as the hot dog pack?
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Re: 1641: "Hot Dogs"

Postby ucim » Wed Feb 10, 2016 9:14 pm UTC

cellocgw wrote:what if hot dogs came in packages of 10 but hot dog buns came in packages of 4*π ?
Then I'd have a nice dessert after every two and a half hot dogs.

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Re: 1641: "Hot Dogs"

Postby Copper Bezel » Wed Feb 10, 2016 9:18 pm UTC

Envelope Generator wrote:
dtilque wrote:It's a subversion of a classic conundrum
Here's another conundrum: if hot dogs and buns come in packs of mismatched number, why doesn't a competing producer bring out a bun pack with the same amount of buns as the hot dog pack?

Bun length, jumbo, premium beef, and most novelty franks come in packs of 8. Kosher come in weird and unpredictable numbers. Hot dog buns are are most convenient to package in 8s, where that's less important for hot dogs, which only need to be an even number for stacking.

In the US, hot dog packages are typically 1 lb, which is useful for price comparison purposes. That really means that the most convenient quantity of hot dog to sell is fixed, and the only convenient variable is how that quantity is partitioned. Again, bun-length hot dogs partition it into eight cylinders the length of a bun; this is clearly ideal for pairing with hot dog buns. However, they haven't become the standard, possibly because ten slightly smaller pieces of meat might seem more appealing than eight slightly larger ones. I tend to gravitate to the ten packs because I know I'm going to eat two of them at a given meal, regardless of the weights involved.

Hot dogs also have plenty of applications that don't involve buns. Unless you only ever eat hot dogs in conjunction with buns, there will still be a mismatch. Ghetto American bangers and mash, for instance.

And yes, of course, there are other sausages sold in quantities differing from those of hot dogs but meant to be eaten on hot dog buns which could also upset the system, though those tend to be in 4s and 8s anyway.

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Re: 1641: "Hot Dogs"

Postby dtilque » Wed Feb 10, 2016 10:15 pm UTC

Eutychus wrote:Nope, that ain't me. I'm famous/infamous here, home to not a few xkcd fans.


OK. I hoped you enjoyed your fall out the window then.
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Re: 1641: "Hot Dogs"

Postby The Moomin » Wed Feb 10, 2016 10:46 pm UTC

But now there's the trend for "naked" food, where a naked hotdog is just the sausage with no bun, rather than calling it a sausage.

Personally, I have always been confused by the lack of foods that come in packs of five so there's one for each day of the standard working week.
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Re: 1641: "Hot Dogs"

Postby sotanaht » Thu Feb 11, 2016 12:48 am UTC

cellocgw wrote:It could be worse -- what if hot dogs came in packages of 10 but hot dog buns came in packages of 4*π ? Then you could never buy enough packages to match all hot dogs to a bun.


I can eat 8-12, but only if they are burnt and smothered in chili. I hate the actual taste of hotdog.

The Moomin wrote:But now there's the trend for "naked" food, where a naked hotdog is just the sausage with no bun, rather than calling it a sausage.

Personally, I have always been confused by the lack of foods that come in packs of five so there's one for each day of the standard working week.


Because do you really want to eat something you opened 5 days ago? Frozen works fine, but otherwise I'm leery about it on the third day and throw it out on the fourth.

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Re: 1641: "Hot Dogs"

Postby Coyoty » Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:18 am UTC

Eutychus wrote:Image

I don't get this one, and I'm not sure I want to.


You don't understand what the hot dog condom condiment comment meant?

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Re: 1641: "Vital Functions of Hot Dogs"

Postby Eternal Density » Thu Feb 11, 2016 3:24 am UTC

Hotdogs? I think you mean Doctor Hotdog's MonsterSausages. I've only seen them sold by weight, not packaged.
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Re: 1641: "Hot Dogs"

Postby Alex T » Thu Feb 11, 2016 7:03 am UTC

I don't know, but I usually buy hot dogs in packs of 8, so no extra buns.

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Re: 1641: "Hot Dogs"

Postby keithl » Thu Feb 11, 2016 8:09 am UTC

cellocgw wrote:It could be worse -- what if hot dogs came in packages of 10 but hot dog buns came in packages of 4*π ? Then you could never buy enough packages to match all hot dogs to a bun.


The new packaging concept will be continuous hot dog and continuous bun wrapped around spools. 4*π of bun (or hot dog) is two wraps around the spool.

As a spool adds layers, a wrap gets longer. Steadily shrinking wraps will be good for people easing themselves into a diet. A radian a day keeps the doctor away.

Continous length dispensing spools also solve the metric/english hot dog unit controversy; instead of ordering a foot-long, A European can order a 40 centimeter long and outeat the wussy Yanks.

However, do not attempt to sell pizza the same way. After 6 people purchase one radian slices for three dollars each, selling the 0.283185... radian remainder could cause ordinary cash registers to emit floating point exceptions.

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Re: 1641: "Hot Dogs"

Postby Copper Bezel » Thu Feb 11, 2016 8:45 am UTC

But that's ridiculous. How can one pizza contain two pie?
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Re: 1641: "Hot Dogs"

Postby dtilque » Thu Feb 11, 2016 9:32 am UTC

Copper Bezel wrote:But that's ridiculous. How can one pizza contain two pie?


But I thought 2 are pi...
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Re: 1641: "Hot Dogs"

Postby da Doctah » Thu Feb 11, 2016 11:07 am UTC

The Moomin wrote:I have always been confused by the lack of foods that come in packs of five so there's one for each day of the standard working week.


Not food, but food-related, packages of "good" chopsticks typically come in sets of five pairs, because Chinese tradition has it that odd numbers are lucky.

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Re: 1641: "Hot Dogs"

Postby orthogon » Thu Feb 11, 2016 12:04 pm UTC

da Doctah wrote:
The Moomin wrote:I have always been confused by the lack of foods that come in packs of five so there's one for each day of the standard working week.


Not food, but food-related, packages of "good" chopsticks typically come in sets of five pairs, because Chinese tradition has it that odd numbers are lucky.

Not quite: 8 is lucky but it isn't odd (iirc the Beijing Olympics began on 08.08.08). On the other hand, 8 is prime, which is more or less the same thing. Come to think of it, all the lucky numbers on that Wikipedia page are prime.
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Re: 1641: "Hot Dogs"

Postby CharlieP » Thu Feb 11, 2016 12:47 pm UTC

dtilque wrote:
Copper Bezel wrote:But that's ridiculous. How can one pizza contain two pie?


But I thought 2 are pi...


No, pie are round.
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Re: 1641: "Hot Dogs"

Postby Znirk » Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:05 pm UTC

OK, now forget all the sausageage: How common is it for condoms to come packaged in sixes, and is there a particular reason?

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Re: 1641: "Hot Dogs"

Postby orthogon » Thu Feb 11, 2016 5:45 pm UTC

Znirk wrote:OK, now forget all the sausageage: How common is it for condoms to come packaged in sixes, and is there a particular reason?

Ideally you want a number with a lot of different prime factors, to allow you to perform a wider variety of sex acts with different numbers of participants a whole number of times. Six is the lowest number that meets this requirement.
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