1672: "Women on 20s"

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Re: 1672: "Women on 20s"

Postby mathmannix » Tue Apr 26, 2016 5:52 pm UTC

JudeMorrigan wrote:
mathmannix wrote:The only non-President currently on a bill is Alexander Hamilton (on the $10 bill), but he was the first Secretary of the Treasury and the founder of the nation's financial system, as others have pointed out, so he deserves to stay. The other non-President currently on currency is the Native American woman Sacajawea (on the non-Presidential dollar coins). (Wikipedia seems to indicate that Sacajawea dollars are still being produced; I wasn't sure. Dollar coins are not that popular in the U.S.)

I think you're forgetting Ben Franklin.

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Re: 1672: "Women on 20s"

Postby gmalivuk » Tue Apr 26, 2016 5:52 pm UTC

mathmannix wrote:The only non-President currently on a bill is Alexander Hamilton
I know most people don't see a lot of $50s or $100s, but I thought it was fairly common popular culture knowledge that Benjamin Franklin was on the $100 (plus it's been mentioned in the thread), with Grant being on the $50. You did rather a lot of typing and analysis in that post to have then gotten such a basic fact wrong.

operagost wrote:
Diadem wrote:So as a non-American, I have to ask: Why is Tubman so important?

I don't think I had heard of her before reading about this campaign to put her on the $20,-. Maybe that's my lack of historic awareness, but reading her Wikipedia page she doesn't seem that important. Rescuing 70 slaves is not exactly something that changes the course of history. I'm not trying to belittle what she did, she obviously did more than most people ever will. But there's only a few spots on the currency. Surely there are women who had a much larger (positive) impact on US history?

Indeed, while Tubman was a hero, Frederick Douglass may have accomplished more lasting results just as an adviser to President Lincoln-- but it's the feminists who are being noisy right now, so they get the grease. They never did like him because while he was very vocal about wanting suffrage for both black people and women simultaneously, he accepted the initial step of the former through the 15th Amendment. Heck, he even married a feminist.
It's not feminists being "noisy". There was a survey of women people thought should be on a bill. If it were about which person of color should have one, Douglass might have been in the running along with MLK.

Also, don't conflate the modern feminists advocating for Tubman on the $20 with the 19th century feminists who didn't like Douglass. They were antiblack racists who wouldn't have been happy about Tubman either. (They also, like you seem to be doing, sometimes had a hard time conceptualizing the possibility that someone might be both Black *and* a woman.)
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Re: 1672: "Women on 20s"

Postby JudeMorrigan » Tue Apr 26, 2016 5:54 pm UTC

operagost wrote:BTW, HELL to the NO on putting Wilson on any currency (Wilson was actually on a very high denomination bill used in the Treasury system, I believe).

Wilson was a fan of "Birth of a Nation", signed off on the income tax and Federal Reserve system, got us into WWI after campaigning on NOT getting us into WWI, and oversaw the persecution of war objectors by signing the Espionage and Sedition acts.

I won't go so far as calling him a villain, but OK screw it, he was a villain.

You see now, I'd put the income tax and Federal Reserve system bits as reasons TO put him on a bill. And have no problem with our (eventually) having entered into WWI.

I'm fine with DQing him for the whole inveterate racist and Espionage and Sedition Acts bits though.

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Re: 1672: "Women on 20s"

Postby mathmannix » Tue Apr 26, 2016 5:55 pm UTC

operagost wrote:BTW, HELL to the NO on putting Wilson on any currency (Wilson was actually on a very high denomination bill used in the Treasury system, I believe).

Wilson was a fan of "Birth of a Nation", signed off on the income tax and Federal Reserve system, got us into WWI after campaigning on NOT getting us into WWI, and oversaw the persecution of war objectors by signing the Espionage and Sedition acts.

I won't go so far as calling him a villain, but OK screw it, he was a villain.

Hmm. Yes, so if Teddy Roosevelt had won the 1912 election instead of Wilson, then Germany would have won World War I, which means no Nazis or Hitler. OK, Wilson caused World War II and the Holocaust.
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Re: 1672: "Women on 20s"

Postby Belial » Tue Apr 26, 2016 6:42 pm UTC

Netreker0 wrote:On the other hand, Andrew Jackson was a stone cold badass. The man won a duel against a superior marksman by devising the "let him shoot first and miss so I can take my time aiming strategy." Naturally, no plan survives first contact with the enemy, but Jackson still won by employing the "survive getting shot first, then shoot him to death" strategy. Then there was the time where, as President, he survived an assassination attempt and had to be pulled off the would be assassin as he tried to beat him to death with his cane. (Another badass fact, he carried a cane.) There's no scientific evidence for this assertion, but I firmly believe the assassin's guns both misfired because they were afraid of Andrew Jackson. Also, he threw raging cheese parties at the White House.


Maybe it's because I'm getting old or less of a man or both, but I really just don't see "being a badass" as a redeeming feature, like, at all. Jackson super liked murdering people in duels, and he was good at it. I wish he'd been less good at it, so he would've just been dead.

Like... "Oh this dude is a murderer and an awful human being who orchestrates genocides, but he's *also* nearly impossible to kill, and really personally violent and brutal".

Oh good.
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Re: 1672: "Women on 20s"

Postby nharding » Tue Apr 26, 2016 6:59 pm UTC

Why would you want to honor Rachel Carson, she is responsible for millions of dead due to her efforts to ban DDT. I'm glad Harriet is on the $20 but Jackson should be removed entirely (but since he was the first Democrat president I guess replacing him with a Republican and removing him was too much).

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Re: 1672: "Women on 20s"

Postby dieterFromAustria » Tue Apr 26, 2016 7:18 pm UTC

Has anybody ever thought about putting a portrait of Rosa Parks on a Dollar Bill?

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Re: 1672: "Women on 20s"

Postby heuristically_alone » Tue Apr 26, 2016 7:28 pm UTC

Well they should just create a bill just to keep in a museum or something, like a $3 bill. On it will be the silhouette of a woman cooking in the kitchen
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Re: 1672: "Women on 20s"

Postby Quizatzhaderac » Tue Apr 26, 2016 8:04 pm UTC

Okay, Idea for an XKCD currency:

Bitcoin backed. The bill is divided into three portions, the frame and the portrait and the strip.

The portrait can be any arbitrary thing and people are free to use their own designs. Raptors, Summer Glau, equations, red spiders, whatever.

The frame part is almost identical and can be parsed by image scanners. The two variations are the amount and the public key.

The strip is similar to the strip embedded in US bills, except folded, so one can see it is present, but not read it. When removed (destroying the bill) one can unfold it and read the private key, thus redeeming the bitcoin.

Belial wrote:I really just don't see "being a badass" as a redeeming feature, like, at all.
It makes a good story. Of course, by that logic we'd probably want to put our greatest villains on the notes.

Idea! Let's put Jack Johnson on a note! He could totally beat up any president, we need more African Americans, and I can't think of anything evil he did.
Flumble wrote:Speaking of money, why is there even paper money in this day and age? I haven't touched a banknote in, errrr, half a year I guess? Maybe even a whole year by now. All the bills, groceries, diners, bike repairs etc. are paid digitally.
Not everyone has full access to the banking system and the $.10 + 2 % transaction fees aren't worth the cost to everyone.

People not in the financial system aren't just (as Cellocgw joked) "drug dealers and the CIA Bribe Team only". Remember the whole recent voter ID scandals; it turns out a lot of people don't have things we take for granted.

Illegal immigrants (who aren't necessarily breaking any other laws) don't have SSNs/Tax IDs so they have to do everything with cash.
Last edited by Quizatzhaderac on Thu Aug 17, 2017 2:56 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 1672: "Women on 20s"

Postby JudeMorrigan » Tue Apr 26, 2016 8:07 pm UTC

nharding wrote:Why would you want to honor Rachel Carson, she is responsible for millions of dead due to her efforts to ban DDT. I'm glad Harriet is on the $20 but Jackson should be removed entirely (but since he was the first Democrat president I guess replacing him with a Republican and removing him was too much).

Meh. The modern parties bear so little resemblance to what they were when they were formed that I sincerely doubt that anyone would care about that.

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Re: 1672: "Women on 20s"

Postby Muswell » Tue Apr 26, 2016 8:08 pm UTC

Soupspoon wrote: And it has been generations since we've had a true Battle Monarch (I forget which one, right now) even if heirs-and-spares have been getting very real experience in the armed services whilst in waiting.


George II.

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Re: 1672: "Women on 20s"

Postby orthogon » Tue Apr 26, 2016 8:12 pm UTC

So is it a greater honour to be featured on a higher denomination banknote, or a less valuable but more numerous and frequently exchanged one?
Last edited by orthogon on Tue Apr 26, 2016 8:13 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 1672: "Women on 20s"

Postby JudeMorrigan » Tue Apr 26, 2016 8:13 pm UTC

Quizatzhaderac wrote:People not in the financial system aren't just (as Cellocgw joked) "drug dealers and the CIA Bribe Team only". Remember the whole recent voter ID scandals; it turns out a lot of people don't have things we take for granted.

I'm pretty sure the joke there was specifically about hundred dollar bills, not people who aren't in the financial system. In my admittedly limited and privileged experience, plenty of people use cash but few make routine use of denominations larger than twenties.

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Re: 1672: "Women on 20s"

Postby Quey » Tue Apr 26, 2016 8:49 pm UTC

cryptoengineer wrote:If you look at a current $20, the obverse (the side with the White House) shows a pattern of
very small, faint '20"s printed all over the blank areas in yellow ink. They actually fall into a
specific pattern which is recognized by color copiers and some image editing software. The
'0's form what is called a EURion Constellation

Obverse is the "front", "heads". Reverse is the "back", "tails", "the side with the White House".

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Re: 1672: "Women on 20s"

Postby Quizatzhaderac » Tue Apr 26, 2016 8:56 pm UTC

@JudeMorrigan
People who don't write/receive checks/money orders/wire transfers are often the ones who need the larger bills. It's a pain in the ass to buy a car with 20s. Likewise, if you're a contractor you don't want to count out 30 20s to each of your ten guys every week.

People who use both cash and all the other finical instruments tend not to use the large bills, because there tends to be something exactly suited to one's use case for large purchases / sales. We're another reason to keep paper money in circulation, but I felt I'd focus on people who need paper money as the argument for it.
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Re: 1672: "Women on 20s"

Postby gmalivuk » Tue Apr 26, 2016 9:17 pm UTC

Belial wrote:
Netreker0 wrote:On the other hand, Andrew Jackson was a stone cold badass. The man won a duel against a superior marksman by devising the "let him shoot first and miss so I can take my time aiming strategy." Naturally, no plan survives first contact with the enemy, but Jackson still won by employing the "survive getting shot first, then shoot him to death" strategy. Then there was the time where, as President, he survived an assassination attempt and had to be pulled off the would be assassin as he tried to beat him to death with his cane. (Another badass fact, he carried a cane.) There's no scientific evidence for this assertion, but I firmly believe the assassin's guns both misfired because they were afraid of Andrew Jackson. Also, he threw raging cheese parties at the White House.


Maybe it's because I'm getting old or less of a man or both, but I really just don't see "being a badass" as a redeeming feature, like, at all. Jackson super liked murdering people in duels, and he was good at it. I wish he'd been less good at it, so he would've just been dead.

Like... "Oh this dude is a murderer and an awful human being who orchestrates genocides, but he's *also* nearly impossible to kill, and really personally violent and brutal".

Oh good.
I think @factsinallcaps on Tumblr has useful things to say about both Jackson and Tubman.

He ends his Jackson post with
ALSO I DON’T WANT TO SEE ANYBODY REBLOGGING THIS WITH THE ATTITUDE THAT ANDREW JACKSON IS A BADASS. HE’S NOT. HE WAS A DANGEROUS VIOLENT SADIST WHO LIKED TO HURT PEOPLE AND SOMEHOW MANAGED TO TRICK AND DECEIVE HIS WAY INTO A POSITION OF POWER WHERE HE COULD HURT EVEN MORE PEOPLE. THAT IS THE MORAL OF THIS STORY.



And the Harriet Tubman one includes
SO I JUST WANT YOU TO STEW ON THAT FOR LIKE A MINUTE. ACTING IN THE SHADOWS, SHE WALKED INTO HELL ON EARTH 19 TIMES TO SAVE HER FELLOW HUMAN BEINGS FROM THE TORMENT SHE ENDURED, AND THE SECOND SHE WAS GIVEN EVEN A MODICUM OF POWER, SHE MANAGED TO FREE SEVEN HUNDRED SLAVES IN ONE DAY.

I GUARANTEE, HOWEVER IMPRESSED YOU ALREADY ARE WITH HARRIET TUBMAN, YOU ARE FALLING LIKE AT LEAST 40% SHORT OF HOW IMPRESSED YOU SHOULD BE WITH HARRIET TUBMAN. SHE IS ONE OF THE BEST EXAMPLES OF BADASSERY IN THE ENTIRETY OF AMERICAN HISTORY.
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Re: 1672: "Women on 20s"

Postby Omegaman » Tue Apr 26, 2016 9:22 pm UTC

Belial wrote:Maybe it's because I'm getting old or less of a man or both, but I really just don't see "being a badass" as a redeeming feature, like, at all. Jackson super liked murdering people in duels, and he was good at it. I wish he'd been less good at it, so he would've just been dead.

Being a badass in and of itself is just a magnitude without direction. Jackson was a badass sociopath. Tubman, a badass emancipator.

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Re: 1672: "Women on 20s"

Postby Eternal Density » Tue Apr 26, 2016 10:13 pm UTC

nharding wrote:Why would you want to honor Rachel Carson, she is responsible for millions of dead due to her efforts to ban DDT.
Why do you want to poison the planet and make birds extinct?
Omegaman wrote:
Belial wrote:Maybe it's because I'm getting old or less of a man or both, but I really just don't see "being a badass" as a redeeming feature, like, at all. Jackson super liked murdering people in duels, and he was good at it. I wish he'd been less good at it, so he would've just been dead.

Being a badass in and of itself is just a magnitude without direction. Jackson was a badass sociopath. Tubman, a badass emancipator.
Well said!
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Re: 1672: "Summer Glau on my money"

Postby Eternal Density » Tue Apr 26, 2016 10:14 pm UTC

Omegaman wrote:
Belial wrote:Maybe it's because I'm getting old or less of a man or both, but I really just don't see "being a badass" as a redeeming feature, like, at all. Jackson super liked murdering people in duels, and he was good at it. I wish he'd been less good at it, so he would've just been dead.

Being a badass in and of itself is just a magnitude without direction. Jackson was a badass sociopath. Tubman, a badass emancipator.
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Re: 1672: "Women on 20s"

Postby Diadem » Tue Apr 26, 2016 10:59 pm UTC

gmalivuk wrote:
Diadem wrote:So as a non-American, I have to ask: Why is Tubman so important?

I don't think I had heard of her before reading about this campaign to put her on the $20,-. Maybe that's my lack of historic awareness, but reading her Wikipedia page she doesn't seem that important. Rescuing 70 slaves is not exactly something that changes the course of history. I'm not trying to belittle what she did, she obviously did more than most people ever will. But there's only a few spots on the currency. Surely there are women who had a much larger (positive) impact on US history?
Fortunately, there's no need to take your ignorance or poor skimming abilities into account when making decisions like this.

What kind of weird answer is that? "Why is she important?" "Luckily the people making the decision knew the answer to that". Well, yeah. Obviously. Almost tautologically so. If the people who put her on that bill didn't think she was important they presumably wouldn't have put her on there. But why did they think that?

(No need to answer that question anymore, since others have by now).

gmalivuk wrote:What would you know about Jackson, do you think, if he weren't already on the 20? Hamilton?

Plenty about Hamilton. Next to nothing about Jackson, but then again, the general consensus seems to be that he doesn't belong there.


Anyway, speaking generally I think the US money is rather boring. Boring politicians on the front, boring buildings on the back. Nothing wrong I guess with honoring the truly great politicians, but you don't have to dedicate all your bills to that. Tubman is a big step forward in that regard I suppose. But I would like to see more non-politicians. Where are the scientists or writers or artists? And the back-side can use some improvement too. Why isn't the Saturn V on any of the bills, for example?

*edit* Sadly, the Dutch coins have always been pretty boring too, including our euro coins. The bills however I have always liked.
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Re: 1672: "Women on 20s"

Postby Soupspoon » Tue Apr 26, 2016 11:08 pm UTC

Diadem wrote:Why isn't the Saturn V on any of the bills, for example?
An early prototype is... It's not a pyramid with an eye on the $1, it's the initial design of the rocket with the Apollo module separating, before they redesigned the whole thing to be made with less stone... ;)

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Re: 1672: "Women on 20s"

Postby gmalivuk » Tue Apr 26, 2016 11:46 pm UTC

Diadem wrote:
gmalivuk wrote:
Diadem wrote:Rescuing 70 slaves is not exactly something that changes the course of history.
Fortunately, there's no need to take your ignorance or poor skimming abilities into account when making decisions like this.

What kind of weird answer is that?
It's an answer that also points out how you referred to a source of the answer (Wikipedia) that you evidently didn't actually read before asking your question.
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Re: 1672: "Women on 20s"

Postby da Doctah » Wed Apr 27, 2016 12:25 am UTC

dieterFromAustria wrote:Has anybody ever thought about putting a portrait of Rosa Parks on a Dollar Bill?


Maybe they could put her on the back.

(Nope. Nope. Didn't say that. Never said that. Never gonna say it. Ever.)

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Re: 1672: "Women on 20s"

Postby HaniiPuppy » Wed Apr 27, 2016 1:03 am UTC

What's with the pyramid-eye thing anyway? I mean, a lot of countries' currencies have strange imagery on them, but it usually marks something or someone important in finance, economics, history, or to do with the issuing bank/organisation itself. E.g. one of the Scottish £20 notes has an angry-looking knight, then what looks like a knight on horseback going after a spider in a web, but it's supposed to symbolise the story of Robert and the spider.

The pyramid-eye thing is just freaky, just trippy. Even as far as currency symbols go, it's just strange and inexplicable.

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Re: 1672: "Women on 20s"

Postby armandoalvarez » Wed Apr 27, 2016 1:48 am UTC

gmalivuk wrote:
mathmannix wrote:The only non-President currently on a bill is Alexander Hamilton
I know most people don't see a lot of $50s or $100s, but I thought it was fairly common popular culture knowledge that Benjamin Franklin was on the $100 (plus it's been mentioned in the thread), with Grant being on the $50. You did rather a lot of typing and analysis in that post to have then gotten such a basic fact wrong.



The wording is a little ambiguous, but you seem to be implying that Grant wasn't president.

From what I've read, he's a pretty underrated president, with a great record on civil rights. There are two reasons he is underrated: 1. People within his administration were known for corruption;* and 2. Lost Cause revisionists attacked his work during Reconstruction because he did things like enforce the right of black men to vote and destroyed the Ku Klux Klan.

*He was never implicated personally. Most people say he was overly-trusting. In his personal life, he was bankrupted by investing in a fraudulent scheme, so I think he was just gullible or overly trusting. In his second term, he instituted many anti-corruption reforms. I suspect Lost Cause revisionism plays a part in the claim that his administration was corrupt, given that pretty much every late 19th century administration faced corruption scandals

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Re: 1672: "Women on 20s"

Postby gmalivuk » Wed Apr 27, 2016 2:06 am UTC

armandoalvarez wrote:
gmalivuk wrote:
mathmannix wrote:The only non-President currently on a bill is Alexander Hamilton
I know most people don't see a lot of $50s or $100s, but I thought it was fairly common popular culture knowledge that Benjamin Franklin was on the $100 (plus it's been mentioned in the thread), with Grant being on the $50. You did rather a lot of typing and analysis in that post to have then gotten such a basic fact wrong.
The wording is a little ambiguous, but you seem to be implying that Grant wasn't president.
The original version of mathmannix's post had Grant listed on the $100. I have never believed or implied that Grant wasn't president.
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Re: 1672: "Women on 20s"

Postby armandoalvarez » Wed Apr 27, 2016 2:15 am UTC

gmalivuk wrote:The original version of mathmannix's post had Grant listed on the $100. I have never believed or implied that Grant wasn't president.

Oh, my apologies. Should have caught the version quoted by JudeMorrigan.

HaniiPuppy wrote:What's with the pyramid-eye thing anyway?


The pyramid on the one dollar bill is the reverse of the Great Seal of the United States, which was adopted by the Continental Congress. The obverse is the more-well-known bald eagle design. The reverse shows an incomplete thirteen step pyramid (symbolizing the thirteen original states) with an eye symbolizing Providence (God) with the mottoes "Annuit Coeptis" which is Latin for "He approves our undertakings" [Well, the Latin doesn't clarify whether it's he she or it, but that's the way it's usually translated"] and "Novus ordo seclorum" which means "A new order for the ages."

The pyramid is supposed to symbolize building a new nation. The eye of Providence and the motto "Annuit Coeptis" means that God favors the establishment of the United States.

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Re: 1672: "Women on 20s"

Postby Soupspoon » Wed Apr 27, 2016 2:19 am UTC

HaniiPuppy wrote:What's with the pyramid-eye thing anyway?

Depends on context and how many tinfoil hat layers you are/should be wearing...

(Ninjaed)

And so much for seperation of church and state, some might say...

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Re: 1672: "Women on 20s"

Postby CorruptUser » Wed Apr 27, 2016 6:09 am UTC

Eternal Density wrote:
nharding wrote:Why would you want to honor Rachel Carson, she is responsible for millions of dead due to her efforts to ban DDT.
Why do you want to poison the planet and make birds extinct?


Oh not this canard again. DDT is still legal and in use for malaria; it never stopped being used for that purpose. Problem was the overuse where it wasn't needed, and considering that one of the bird species that Carson saved was the bald eagle, the woman was a patriot.

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Re: 1672: "Women on 20s"

Postby Copper Bezel » Wed Apr 27, 2016 6:22 am UTC

Omegaman wrote:I think it would be easier to just devalue the currency by a factor of 5... People are too stupid to round to the nearest 5, and don't bother mentioning that what we're talking about is an integer number of hundredths of a dollar because that's way too much for people to think about.

First, that's the opposite of "devaluing". Second, however difficult you might imagine the implementation of removing the lowest-denomination coin from circulation as many countries, including the US, have done in the past, and as has been done for the one-cent coin in other places, it isn't "literally impossible if aliens were holding a gun to all our heads" in the way that instituting a new currency at five times the value would obviously be.
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Re: 1672: "Women on 20s"

Postby Steve the Pocket » Wed Apr 27, 2016 7:14 am UTC

wayne wrote:Before our industrial revolution, logging was about the heaviest industry we had. Maybe something like this on the ten:
Image

I see what you did there.
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Re: 1672: "Women on 20s"

Postby Eternal Density » Wed Apr 27, 2016 7:47 am UTC

CorruptUser wrote:
Eternal Density wrote:
nharding wrote:Why would you want to honor Rachel Carson, she is responsible for millions of dead due to her efforts to ban DDT.
Why do you want to poison the planet and make birds extinct?


Oh not this canard again. DDT is still legal and in use for malaria; it never stopped being used for that purpose. Problem was the overuse where it wasn't needed, and considering that one of the bird species that Carson saved was the bald eagle, the woman was a patriot.
Why did you quote me when you're replying to nharding?
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Re: 1672: "Women on 20s"

Postby Morgan Wick » Wed Apr 27, 2016 11:27 am UTC

Diadem wrote:Anyway, speaking generally I think the US money is rather boring. Boring politicians on the front, boring buildings on the back. Nothing wrong I guess with honoring the truly great politicians, but you don't have to dedicate all your bills to that.

Part of what makes our bills "boring" is that a lot of our money is very green and feels like it hasn't been changed since the early 20th century, unlike other countries' notes. The Treasury has been slowly trying to change that with recent redesigns, but it's still nothing compared to a lot of other countries' colorful, modern-looking notes.

As for Wilson, being the one president that might be able to give Jackson a run for his money when it comes to racism isn't the only problem with him; for one thing, he's more responsible than anyone else for the outsized importance of the Presidency today, in part because once we entered WWI he could give Dubya lessons in using war as a pretext for expanding domestic powers. His reputation is inflated because of his vision for world peace in the wake of WWI, which of course didn't happen because he staked everything on the League of Nations and let the European powers strip out everything else that would have allowed it to work and ultimately set the stage for WWII, then came home to an American public and a Senate hostile to the concept and wary of engaging too much with the rest of the world, and wound up working himself basically to his death trying and failing to sell it. Basically, he gets too much credit for being a dreamer, not enough blame for misreading the tenor of the American people and how that would affect the viability of his dream, or for literally everything else he did as president, or even how agreeable the dream itself was considering how much distrust many Americans have of the UN even today.

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Re: 1672: "Women on 20s"

Postby orthogon » Wed Apr 27, 2016 11:43 am UTC

Diadem wrote:*edit* Sadly, the Dutch coins have always been pretty boring too, including our euro coins. The bills however I have always liked.

The old Guilder banknotes were beautiful; an interesting aspect ratio and almost psychedelically coloured. I also remember that the notes went 10,25,50, and I see from the Great Wiki that there was even a two-and-a-half guilder coin, so the 1, 2.5, 5 sequence went consistently all the way up. By contrast the US system is rather inconsistent, switching from 1, 2.5, 5 to 1,2,5 for the banknotes; it also wimps out by not having a 2.5cent coin, and for some reason half-dollars are "rarely used" (this makes it sound like it's the fault of ordinary people, rather than the mint). In the UK the £2 coin used to be rare, but now they're common so we have consistency from 1p, 2p, 5p right up to £10, £20, £50.
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Re: 1672: "Women on 20s"

Postby JudeMorrigan » Wed Apr 27, 2016 3:59 pm UTC

orthogon wrote:
Diadem wrote:*edit* Sadly, the Dutch coins have always been pretty boring too, including our euro coins. The bills however I have always liked.

The old Guilder banknotes were beautiful; an interesting aspect ratio and almost psychedelically coloured. I also remember that the notes went 10,25,50, and I see from the Great Wiki that there was even a two-and-a-half guilder coin, so the 1, 2.5, 5 sequence went consistently all the way up. By contrast the US system is rather inconsistent, switching from 1, 2.5, 5 to 1,2,5 for the banknotes; it also wimps out by not having a 2.5cent coin, and for some reason half-dollars are "rarely used" (this makes it sound like it's the fault of ordinary people, rather than the mint). In the UK the £2 coin used to be rare, but now they're common so we have consistency from 1p, 2p, 5p right up to £10, £20, £50.

In fairness, $2 bills are rare enough that seeing one will pretty much inevitably lead to a comment. That's a shame, imo, as the denomination would both be useful and has the best artwork of all the US bills. Again, in my opinion. Anyways, in *practice*, the inconsistency is that the bills go $1-$5-$10-$20 whereas the coins go 1¢-5¢-10¢-25¢.

As far as the half dollar coin goes, I'd say it's lack of use is a bit the fault of both. It's an inconveniently large coin that just doesn't feel all that useful.

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Re: 1672: "Women on 20s"

Postby Soupspoon » Wed Apr 27, 2016 4:04 pm UTC

orthogon wrote: In the UK the £2 coin used to be rare, but now they're common so we have consistency from 1p, 2p, 5p right up to £10, £20, £50.

The £2 coin was the most recent addition (perhaps unless mostly-comemorative £5, etc, coins didn't pre-exist them, alongside everyday notes of such value). I recall shopkeepers being apologetic and even "do you want to take one?", when they (potentially) were offered as part of my change in the early days of their existence.

I accepted happily enough1 and even hoarded them, for a while, but some people obviously didn't like them, like they hadn't liked the £1s replacing the note, the new 50p, 10p, 5p (the new magnetic 1 and 2p coins, if they noticed2 that change in their change!), and the loss of the ha'penny, never mind those who disliked the move away from the previous system of 240 pennies in the pound and all that guff... :)

(Value-for-weight, £2 coins are least bulky, anyway, even though they are bigger than every other (common) coin. I'll gladly accept unwanted £2 coins (and those new £1 coins, next year!) free of charge.. No, no need to thank me, I'm just being charitable, you know...)


1 Also received a £5 commemorative "Diana" coin, once, that had entered the economy. If it was anything like the Millenium Dome £10 coins I bought, it would originally been sold at double the face value for collecting/nostalgia purpises only. I always wondered if that one had been used in desperation, during hard times by the owner, or had actually been stolen and used without any understanding by the perpetrator. - As for me I gifted it to a numismatist of my acquaintance, rather than spend it myself.

2 I noticed when I used an accurate balance to ensure my giant-whiskey-bottle-full-of-pennies (it can hold 5000 before it needs bagging up and banking) had been accurately split into £1 piles, but I found discrepencies between different piles confirmed as correctly counted.

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Re: 1672: "Women on 20s"

Postby Copper Bezel » Wed Apr 27, 2016 4:13 pm UTC

orthogon wrote:
Diadem wrote:*edit* Sadly, the Dutch coins have always been pretty boring too, including our euro coins. The bills however I have always liked.

The old Guilder banknotes were beautiful; an interesting aspect ratio and almost psychedelically coloured. I also remember that the notes went 10,25,50, and I see from the Great Wiki that there was even a two-and-a-half guilder coin, so the 1, 2.5, 5 sequence went consistently all the way up. By contrast the US system is rather inconsistent, switching from 1, 2.5, 5 to 1,2,5 for the banknotes; it also wimps out by not having a 2.5cent coin, and for some reason half-dollars are "rarely used" (this makes it sound like it's the fault of ordinary people, rather than the mint). In the UK the £2 coin used to be rare, but now they're common so we have consistency from 1p, 2p, 5p right up to £10, £20, £50.
I'm honestly not sure that consistency is a highly desirable goal here. Different sets of concerns apply. I'm pretty sure the $20 is the universal denomination bank note it is in the US because of our sales tax system, which makes it the smallest single bill for purchasing an item marked at $9.99. Which is to say, dumb arbitrary special rules for everything.
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Re: 1672: "Women on 20s"

Postby KrytenKoro » Wed Apr 27, 2016 5:17 pm UTC

orthogon wrote:So is it a greater honour to be featured on a higher denomination banknote, or a less valuable but more numerous and frequently exchanged one?

The $20 is both more valuable and more numerous/frequently exchanged.
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Re: 1672: "Women on 20s"

Postby Quizatzhaderac » Wed Apr 27, 2016 5:32 pm UTC

The important denominations are 1/4, 1, 5, 20, & 100 dollars. The pattern being increasing by a factor of 4-5 and keeping round numbers.
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Re: 1672: "Women on 20s"

Postby gmalivuk » Wed Apr 27, 2016 6:10 pm UTC

KrytenKoro wrote:
orthogon wrote:So is it a greater honour to be featured on a higher denomination banknote, or a less valuable but more numerous and frequently exchanged one?

The $20 is both more valuable and more numerous/frequently exchanged.
Not according to the Federal Reserve.

There have been fewer $20s in circulation than $1s at least for the past 20 years, and fewer $20s than $100s every year since 2008.

You appear to be right that it's more frequently exchanged, though, since the volume paid into and taken out of circulation by the Fed is greater than any other denomination.
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