1738:"Moon Shapes"

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Coyoty
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Re: 1738:"Moon Shapes"

Postby Coyoty » Tue Sep 27, 2016 1:21 am UTC

What if the moon looks like this?

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Reka
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Re: 1738:"Moon Shapes"

Postby Reka » Tue Sep 27, 2016 2:46 am UTC

orthogon wrote:... is it true that Hungarian is related to Finnish and Korean?

As my sister likes to put it, Hungarian is related to Finnish like English is related to Sanskrit. So yes, they're related, but no, it's not in any way that's useful to speakers of the languages.

I don't actually know about Korean. It's not traditionally listed as a Finno-Ugric language, but I don't know what modern linguistics has to say about it.

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Re: 1738:"Moon Shapes"

Postby qvxb » Tue Sep 27, 2016 2:59 am UTC

The pinpoints of light on the moon in the last picture are LED flashlights placed by teenaged Selenites as a gag. They all use Adze deodorant.

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Re: 1738:"Moon Shapes"

Postby OP Tipping » Tue Sep 27, 2016 3:07 am UTC

The fourth one is actually fine. The moon can look like this during the day time.
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Re: 1738:"Moon Shapes"

Postby OP Tipping » Tue Sep 27, 2016 3:08 am UTC

orthogon wrote:... is it true that Hungarian is related to Finnish and Korean?



Finnish, yes.

Korean, no.
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Re: 1738:"Moon Shapes"

Postby RogueCynic » Tue Sep 27, 2016 4:02 am UTC

New User wrote:
There's either a hole in the moon or a nuclear war on its surface

Or, perhaps, that's no moon...


More likely a dirty lens. I remember when the Hubble telescope went active. One of the mirrors was out of alignment. The local paper joked the lens cap was still on.
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Re: 1738:"Moon Shapes"

Postby HiFranc » Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:20 am UTC

The last one reminds me of the pictures of Earth at night so that could, theoretically, be seen if we had colonies on the Moon (assuming those colonies were wasteful about light emissions and didn't care about light pollution).

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Re: 1738:"Moon Shapes"

Postby Copper Bezel » Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:24 am UTC

I'm kinda curious if anything interesting has been said about possible relationships of the Korean language. Wikipedia only knows about a proposed and not generally accepted Altaic language group, and it really does appear to be a wastebasket taxon.
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Various Varieties
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Re: 1738:"Moon Shapes"

Postby Various Varieties » Tue Sep 27, 2016 9:52 am UTC

My favourite implausible Moon shapes are from George Herriman's Krazy Kat.

Image

Image

Image

Herriman's lunar designs were one of the many things from that strip that influenced Bill Watterson:

Image

And here's the explanation of why they were like that:

Spoiler:
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squall_line
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Re: 1738:"Moon Shapes"

Postby squall_line » Tue Sep 27, 2016 1:48 pm UTC

HiFranc wrote:The last one reminds me of the pictures of Earth at night so that could, theoretically, be seen if we had colonies on the Moon (assuming those colonies were wasteful about light emissions and didn't care about light pollution).


Would there be as much of a glow from light emissions on the moon as there is from emissions on Earth? My gut tells me that the lack of atmosphere on the moon would lessen the glow considerably. Or, put another way, the only reason the Earth "glows" as much as it does around cities is because the lower atmosphere spreads the light.

I imagine it would be the difference between the "glow" from a surface-mount LED without any lens and a milky-lensed LED. Or even the difference between a crystal-lens LED and a milky-lens LED.

See also: the difference in city-glow seen from within a city during a foggy/snowy night and a clear/still night.

That's my gut talking, though.

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Re: 1738:"Moon Shapes"

Postby speising » Tue Sep 27, 2016 2:25 pm UTC

It's also rather unlikely that moon colonies are open to the sky.

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Re: 1738:"Moon Shapes"

Postby Soupspoon » Tue Sep 27, 2016 3:45 pm UTC

In a modern city, the sky is brighter on a cloudy night (from the clouds illuminated by both up-facing(/leaking) illumination and the secondary illumination via the intended illuminated surfaces) than fom the full moon on a cloudless night.

Being in the middle of a city, the atmosphere itself (barring what it absorbs7) balances the dispersion of light away from your localiity with the ingress of light from further away, so it is reasonable to assume that the refelcted light is a good proportion of the light otherwise emitted into space. Obviously that's seen from (2xCloudHeight) rather than (1xMoonHeight), so inverse square, et al, but there's certainly light aplenty.

Or, to take it further, even through the atmosphere, night-side lit cities can be seen (with decent definition) by the Mark One Eyeball Sensor Platforms installed upon the ISS. Also not as far away as the Moon.

What would be interesting as a direct comparison is if an Apollo-mission picture of a crescent Earth might show visible night-side lighting, even though that's a nearly five-decades-ago example (might be darker or lighter, it was likely nearly at a high point of flourescent/sodium lighting, but now we're starting to illuminate with white LEDs to make a more even illumination of the ground).

Or, thinking of it another way, would night-side lighting of the Lunar cities try to make the outsides maybe half as bright at night as under sunlit conditions? (I've long since opined that if lighting is used at all, it'd be used proportionally on the shadow-side of buildings and hard structures (including significant 'crater parks' within the LC limits) to make up for the no-atmosphere deep shadows not illuminated by the lit surfaces opposite. That's if there's habitual movement by people 'aboveground', which is not actually so likely. If it's mostly sublunar then there'd only be a few porthole-windows shining out internal light1,which would probably be not so easily seen by the unassisted Earth-based eye...) If the outsides are so lit, then there would be spots that (I think, would somewhat depend upon sprawl and concenteation) would have Apparent Magnitudes greater even than that of Venus...

Off the top of my head, that is. E&OE. (And one ninja. Bringing up a similar point as what I just passed over.)

1 I've got some old designs for lunar colonies, that I made a while ago. There were zig-zagged tunnels between surface (and possible louvered mirror/shade, to direct light from various amgles down the tunnel) mirrored/prismed like a strange sideways periscope, to control the amount of light pasding down yet keep significant lunar regolith in the way of direct solar radiation as the natural (filtered) light is sent round the bends. Also would provide meteorite protection, should anything crash straight down the entry light-shaft, the energy disapating better even if it manages to get around the first bend or two, leaving the inner window-membrane safer than if merely a multi-glazed 'direct' portal onto open space.

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Re: 1738:"Moon Shapes"

Postby orthogon » Tue Sep 27, 2016 5:20 pm UTC

If a light source subtends less angle than the resolution of the eye/ camera, then all the light hitting the (objective) lens from the object ends up hitting the same photoreceptor/pixel of the image sensor. Hence, a light source just at the limit of resolution is indistinguishable from an ideal point source. Spreading the light so it hits more than one photoreceptor will spread out the energy and probably reduce the visibility. (I say "probably" because I'm not totally sure how the human visual system responds to only one photoreceptor being stimulated).

ETA: All stars (except Sol) are effectively point sources as far as human vision is concerned.
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Re: 1738:"Moon Shapes"

Postby Vandole » Tue Sep 27, 2016 6:16 pm UTC

I'm a little surprised the comic stuck to somewhat realistic depictions of the moon. I was half expecting the last panel to be this moon from RWBY:

Image

Which is just right out, unless those chunks missing are moving around, into or away from the moon.
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Re: 1738:"Moon Shapes"

Postby Draconaes » Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:21 pm UTC

Vandole wrote:I'm a little surprised the comic stuck to somewhat realistic depictions of the moon. I was half expecting the last panel to be this moon from RWBY:

Image

Which is just right out, unless those chunks missing are moving around, into or away from the moon.


It could be that the magic physics-defying crystals they have in the show are also present on the moon and are stabilizing those chunks. I mean, they literally have a flavor of magic crystals called "gravity", though I believe that one may actually be artificial.

Then again, most strange moons in art can be explained once you add magic I suppose.

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Re: 1738:"Moon Shapes"

Postby x7eggert » Tue Sep 27, 2016 9:16 pm UTC

orthogon wrote:(I say "probably" because I'm not totally sure how the human visual system responds to only one photoreceptor being stimulated).


A photon hitting a receptive cell is either perceived as white or as a pure color. Color-sensitive receptors may signal their color or white, depending on where/what they connect to.

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Re: 1738:"Moon Shapes"

Postby Angua » Tue Sep 27, 2016 9:27 pm UTC

x7eggert wrote:
orthogon wrote:(I say "probably" because I'm not totally sure how the human visual system responds to only one photoreceptor being stimulated).


A photon hitting a receptive cell is either perceived as white or as a pure color. Color-sensitive receptors may signal their color or white, depending on where/what they connect to.
I'm pretty sure that just one photoreceptor cell going off would be interpreted as noise and ignored accordingly.
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Re: 1738:"Moon Shapes"

Postby mekily » Wed Sep 28, 2016 3:08 am UTC

Reka wrote:
orthogon wrote:... is it true that Hungarian is related to Finnish and Korean?

As my sister likes to put it, Hungarian is related to Finnish like English is related to Sanskrit. So yes, they're related, but no, it's not in any way that's useful to speakers of the languages.

I don't actually know about Korean. It's not traditionally listed as a Finno-Ugric language, but I don't know what modern linguistics has to say about it.


Korean is an odd one. It's classified as a language isolate and has no known related languages (except for some ancient, extinct Koreanic languages).

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Re: 1738:"Moon Shapes"

Postby rhy7s » Wed Sep 28, 2016 4:05 am UTC

Rombobjörn wrote:
This one isn't possible at all. Except on Independence Day I suppose. Without the star it could have been a solar eclipse in the distant future, when the moon has moved farther away, but as long as any part of the sun is visible you won't see any stars.


And others, e.g. http://www.worldflagsportal.com/flags-with-moons.html

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Re: 1738:"Moon Shapes"

Postby x7eggert » Wed Sep 28, 2016 7:34 am UTC

Angua wrote:
x7eggert wrote:
orthogon wrote:(I say "probably" because I'm not totally sure how the human visual system responds to only one photoreceptor being stimulated).


A photon hitting a receptive cell is either perceived as white or as a pure color. Color-sensitive receptors may signal their color or white, depending on where/what they connect to.
I'm pretty sure that just one photoreceptor cell going off would be interpreted as noise and ignored accordingly.


It was tested recently. You have a 60 % chance of correctly saying "there was a single photon" vs. "there was none".

http://www.wissenschaft.de/home/-/journ ... 4/12604260

About how we see color:
https://www.sciencenews.org/article/col ... ok-picture

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Re: 1738:"Moon Shapes"

Postby Mike Rosoft » Wed Sep 28, 2016 7:37 am UTC

orthogon wrote:In the same conversation, I also learned how to know whether the moon is waxing or waning: "La lune est menteuse". The moon is a liar: when she looks like a "D", she's waxing (croissante); when she looks like a "C", she's waning (décroissante).


In Czech, the Moon in fact tells the truth. We say: "měsíc dorůstá" ("the Moon is growing", i.e. "waxing"), or "měsíc couvá" ("the Moon is receding", i.e. "waning").

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Re: 1738:"Moon Shapes"

Postby Angua » Wed Sep 28, 2016 8:07 am UTC

Good to know they've sorted that out. More relevantly from that article, you're more likely to pick up a signal if there's been one just before which would allow for easily seeing a star.

Though I wonder how the eye distinguishes between the random decay of photoreceptors and a true signal. Does the modulation at the retinal level change whether or not you're expecting to see a single flash of light?
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Re: 1738:"Moon Shapes"

Postby ramblinjd » Wed Sep 28, 2016 1:27 pm UTC

New User wrote:Or, perhaps, that's no moon...


THAT WAS MY FIRST THOUGHT!

I was honestly expecting Randall to do a death star shape as one of them and make that the caption.

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Re: 1738:"Moon Shapes"

Postby somitomi » Wed Sep 28, 2016 8:30 pm UTC

ramblinjd wrote:
New User wrote:Or, perhaps, that's no moon...


THAT WAS MY FIRST THOUGHT!

I was honestly expecting Randall to do a death star shape as one of them and make that the caption.

And that might be the reason he didn't do that. A punchline you expect doesn't pack quite the punch compared to one you don't see coming (a "sucker punchline", if you will).
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Re: 1738:"Moon Shapes"

Postby ggh » Thu Sep 29, 2016 12:58 pm UTC

Rombobjörn wrote:
orthogon wrote:In the same conversation, I also learned how to know whether the moon is waxing or waning: "La lune est menteuse". The moon is a liar: when she looks like a "D", she's waxing (croissante); when she looks like a "C", she's waning (décroissante).

Apparently French ought to be spoken only on the southern hemisphere.
I find it easier to remember how the moon acts since I moved to the southern hemisphere - it fills and empties left-to-right. On the other hand, it's disconcerting that the Man in the Moon is upside-down now.

Maybe my favourite moonish thing is how the path of the moon is similar to the path of the sun in a phase-dependent way: the full moon is doing something like the sun will be doing in six months, whereas the new moon is roughly on the sun's current path, and everything in between is in between - a first quarter moon is sorta tracing the path the sun will in three months.

Draconaes wrote:
Vandole wrote:I'm a little surprised the comic stuck to somewhat realistic depictions of the moon. I was half expecting the last panel to be this moon from RWBY:

Image

Which is just right out, unless those chunks missing are moving around, into or away from the moon.


It could be that the magic physics-defying crystals they have in the show are also present on the moon and are stabilizing those chunks. I mean, they literally have a flavor of magic crystals called "gravity", though I believe that one may actually be artificial.

Then again, most strange moons in art can be explained once you add magic I suppose.
There's all those cases of folks sitting on the crescent moon like it's a beach chair... usually they don't bother me, because Magic and/or Art. But there's this one - I wish I could remember where I saw it - it was probably at the start of a Dreamworks movie or something with that kid fishing from the moon... anyways, they made the moon just sensible enough at the start that my brain really had trouble with the impossibility of the occlusions as the animation continued.

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Re: 1738:"Moon Shapes"

Postby MechR » Fri Sep 30, 2016 3:34 am UTC

Dammit, Korosensei :?

Image

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Re: 1738:"Moon Shapes"

Postby black_pignouf » Wed Oct 12, 2016 9:32 am UTC

Maybe my favourite moonish thing is how the path of the moon is similar to the path of the sun in a phase-dependent way: the full moon is doing something like the sun will be doing in six months, whereas the new moon is roughly on the sun's current path, and everything in between is in between - a first quarter moon is sorta tracing the path the sun will in three months.

@ggh : I never though about it this way. I tried to understand the relation between declination and phases, but I was missing something. Thanks!


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