1759: "British Map"

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Re: 1759: "British Map"

Postby Soupspoon » Mon Nov 14, 2016 6:58 pm UTC

DanD wrote:Knowing the settlement pattern of the area makes it likely that these are names pulled from Britain, but without providing any clue exactly where.

My Hobby: Examining any state/county-scale of "British-settled America" and spotting the half-logical/half-incongruous relationships between UK-originating settlement names. Like "Ha, I see what they did with Luton and Bedford, but how come there's an Aberdeen between them?" ( <- imagined example, but not far off what I've found... )

Every now and then I take geography into factor. I mean... Birmingham, Alabama..?

(Though there are some similarities. "Birmingham is drained only by minor rivers and brooks, primarily the River Tame and its tributaries the Cole and the Rea." -> "The valley is drained by small creeks (Village Creek, Valley Creek) which flow into the Black Warrior River.")

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Re: 1759: "British Map"

Postby Envelope Generator » Mon Nov 14, 2016 7:00 pm UTC

I expected Qwghlm in there somewhere...
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Re: 1759: "British Map"

Postby Jorpho » Mon Nov 14, 2016 7:09 pm UTC

I'm reminded of reading the original War of the Worlds not so long ago. The story does not hold up very well at all, not in the least because of the names of all these obscure places in the English countryside (i.e. which are slowly being overrun by the invading alien hordes) are quite meaningless to anyone outside of the country. The introduction in my copy noted that localized editions would sometimes substitute their own place names.

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Re: 1759: "British Map"

Postby Steve the Pocket » Mon Nov 14, 2016 7:22 pm UTC

Could have done with some words/names from Watership Down, methinks, particularly in Scotland and Wales.

Fhqwhgads as the name of a Welsh town got a big laugh from me. And "Belfast DeVoe" is a reference I never expected to see in this comic.
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Re: 1759: "British Map"

Postby svenman » Mon Nov 14, 2016 7:41 pm UTC

TIL that the family name Cumberbatch (which also occurs in a variety of other spellings, and presumably pronounciations) may derive from a village in Cheshire which nowadays has its name spelled Comberbach. I suppose though that this is too weak a link to count "Cumberbatch" as a mislocated real place.

Edit:
Steve the Pocket wrote:Could have done with some words/names from Watership Down, methinks, particularly in Scotland and Wales.

Efrafa is a name from Watership Down, and (roughly) correctly located to boot. The whole plot of Watership Down (except for the El-Ahrairah legends) takes place in a precisely identifyable and accurately described area within the triangle formed by the towns of Newbury, Andover and Basingstoke in Berkshire and Hampshire. Most of the placenames from the book (Efrafa being an exception) are real, including "Watership Down".

[Edit 2: More geographical precision.][Edit 3: Still more.]
Last edited by svenman on Tue Nov 15, 2016 1:57 pm UTC, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: 1759: "British Map"

Postby Soupspoon » Mon Nov 14, 2016 7:51 pm UTC

Jorpho wrote:I'm reminded of reading the original War of the Worlds not so long ago. The story does not hold up very well at all, not in the least because of the names of all these obscure places in the English countryside (i.e. which are slowly being overrun by the invading alien hordes) are quite meaningless to anyone outside of the country. The introduction in my copy noted that localized editions would sometimes substitute their own place names.

Whereas when the hordes from Firecrow rampage across the Plains Of Merryvale to besiege the castle at Whitekeep, you're still rooting for the Riders Of The Northern Downs... Whether or not there's a pen-and-ink map in the flyleaf, or possibly even appendices that also have extensive glossary and noble family trees.

I didn't want/need to know much about New England/etc when Tom Cruise was out and about not fighting his tripods. (Although I still don't know why something like the USS/USCGC/whatever "Robert J. Thunderchild" couldn't have made a valiant if terminal appearance, during the ferry incident...) For all I know, the journey was like Robin Hood going from Dover to Nottingham via Northumberland (obviously nobody ever did that, right?), but it doesn't really matter to me.

And you don't actually need to know that Wells destroyed Woking (and a further swathe of locations) as musings about how he could (fictionally) kill his neighbours in painful and eccentric ways...

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Re: 1759: "British Map"

Postby duckshirt » Mon Nov 14, 2016 7:57 pm UTC

Apart from the surprising Homestar Runner reference my favorite was "BBC Channel 4"
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Re: 1759: "British Map"

Postby taixzo » Mon Nov 14, 2016 8:06 pm UTC

Soupspoon wrote:
ramblinjd wrote:I see a few categories emerging... feel free to edit/rearrange/discuss:

Puns on real places:
    Aberforth - arguably a "Barmouth/Abermawr" pun, if Randall knows Welsh at all. (Wouldn't put it past him, even if a long shot...) And it's virtually in the right spot for it, given everything. (Ok, so one whole interesturine stretch too far south, but on a Randall-map that's almost forgivable.)



Aberforth was also the name of Albus Dumbledore's brother in the Harry Potter series. Given the other Harry Potter references in this map (Dobby, Hogsmeade) I'd imagine that this was probably the intended reference.
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Re: 1759: "British Map"

Postby ps.02 » Mon Nov 14, 2016 8:10 pm UTC

orthogon wrote:What's with the title? A normal native speaker would say "Map of Britain". Was he trying to avoid the whole England/Britain/UK minefield?

Indeed, if he's trying to play ignorant foreigner, you'd think he would have titled it Map of England. As he really should have done - imagine the YHBTfest in this forum.

Also, the bit of France in the frame should have been Britney.
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Re: 1759: "British Map"

Postby svenman » Mon Nov 14, 2016 8:38 pm UTC

"Bjork" is both a person and a pun on a real placename, as the map shows it roughly in the location of the actual city of York – which was once known as Jórvík to the Vikings who ruled it in the late 9th and early 10th century CE, and still is today to their Icelandic descendants, of whom Björk Guðmundsdóttir (more popularly known as Bjork to the outside world) happens to be one.

(No, I don't intend to claim that Icelanders are descended from the same Vikings that ruled over York.)

[Edit:] And the Piltdown Man may have been a hoax, but Piltdown is a real place (the gravel pit where the alleged Piltdown Man skull fragments were "discovered" is nearby).
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Re: 1759: "British Map"

Postby Soupspoon » Mon Nov 14, 2016 8:58 pm UTC

taixzo wrote:
Soupspoon wrote:
ramblinjd wrote:I see a few categories emerging... feel free to edit/rearrange/discuss:

Puns on real places:
    Aberforth - arguably a "Barmouth/Abermawr" pun, if Randall knows Welsh at all. (Wouldn't put it past him, even if a long shot...) And it's virtually in the right spot for it, given everything. (Ok, so one whole interesturine stretch too far south, but on a Randall-map that's almost forgivable.)



Aberforth was also the name of Albus Dumbledore's brother in the Harry Potter series. Given the other Harry Potter references in this map (Dobby, Hogsmeade) I'd imagine that this was probably the intended reference.

Ah. I could imagine Rowling making said joke. Less considered than Pratchett, more restrained than Piers Anthony.

And, in hindsight, located around Aberystwyth. For some, that's the "Aber".
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Re: 1759: "British Map"

Postby Grop » Mon Nov 14, 2016 9:07 pm UTC

That is quite many mountains.

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Re: 1759: "British Map"

Postby Soupspoon » Mon Nov 14, 2016 9:25 pm UTC

Probably includes hills.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_m ... ive_height
There are 120 in total: 82 in Scotland, 24 in Ireland, eight in Wales, four in England and one each in Northern Ireland and the Isle of Man. Of these, the top 110 are above 2000 feet (610 m).

For a longer list, see the lists of Marilyns which include all 2008 hills and mountains in the British Isles with a relative height of at least 150 m.


But we have a compact and diverse geography/geology. Notable 'peak areas' are obscured by text, also.

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Re: 1759: "British Map"

Postby Mikeski » Mon Nov 14, 2016 11:08 pm UTC

Re: the title text, there are places in the USA like that. The suburbs of Minnesota's capitol:

South Saint Paul is actually south of Saint Paul. We got one right.

North Saint Paul is northeast of Saint Paul, and does not border it.

West Saint Paul is ... south of Saint Paul. Saint Paul actually wraps around it a bit, so you can leave Saint Paul traveling west, go through South Saint Paul, and reach West Saint Paul. You can also leave Saint Paul traveling east, go through Lilydale and Mendota Heights, and reach West Saint Paul.

I have no clue what Saint Paul Park is doing way over there.

(I'm also a bit confused why someplace called "Landfall" exists a thousand miles from the nearest ocean. And why Crystal seems to be playing a game of Qix with New Hope. Gerrymandering, I guess.)

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Re: 1759: "British Map"

Postby Tsr » Mon Nov 14, 2016 11:11 pm UTC

leafar wrote:Can anyone explain the reason for a protractor in between Scotland and Northern Ireland?
I wish he had combined the names of the few correct labels in the map and called them "Oxbridge" and "Camford"...


I wonder if it's to do with the (possibly mis-remembered / apocryphal) obscenity act thing -" more erect than the angle of the firth is obscene"

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Re: 1759: "British Map"

Postby dennisw » Mon Nov 14, 2016 11:54 pm UTC

Mikeski wrote:
[snip]

(I'm also a bit confused why someplace called "Landfall" exists a thousand miles from the nearest ocean. And why Crystal seems to be playing a game of Qix with New Hope. Gerrymandering, I guess.)

Image


The history of New Hope touches on the origins of the odd boundary. The history of Crystal, perhaps understandably, seems to gloss over this, despite a great deal of information over all.
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Re: 1759: "British Map"

Postby Soupspoon » Tue Nov 15, 2016 12:01 am UTC

dennisw wrote:The history of New Hope touches on the origins of the odd boundary. The history of Crystal, perhaps understandably, seems to gloss over this, despite a great deal of information over all.

Someone needs to explain the border between the Empire Of Strikes Back and the Tipps Of Alistair, now... ;)

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Re: 1759: "British Map"

Postby dtilque » Tue Nov 15, 2016 12:03 am UTC

There's a section of Massachusetts where there's a Northborough to the west, a Westborough to the south, a Southborough to the east, and to the north, where (il)logically there should be Eastborough, there's Marlborough.
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Re: 1759: "British Map"

Postby Mikeski » Tue Nov 15, 2016 12:08 am UTC

dennisw wrote:
Mikeski wrote:[...] And why Crystal seems to be playing a game of Qix with New Hope. Gerrymandering, I guess.)

The history of New Hope touches on the origins of the odd boundary. The history of Crystal, perhaps understandably, seems to gloss over this, despite a great deal of information over all.

So, "gerrymandering", but by the will of individual citizens, rather than some Arch-Overlord trying to protect his permanent sinecure. America, dudes.

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Re: 1759: "British Map"

Postby Carlington » Tue Nov 15, 2016 12:17 am UTC

orthogon wrote:
Whizbang wrote:
alanbbent wrote:Also, how do the locals pronounce Oughghough?

Oh-ff-Ow

A lot of tourists make that mistake, but actually it's more like "Bahn-sta-pull".

Actually, it's pronounced "Throat-Wobbler Mangrove"
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Re: 1759: "British Map"

Postby Adacore » Tue Nov 15, 2016 12:28 am UTC

It's curious that, despite there being several real-world places that are incorrectly located on the map, the mislocation that irks me the most is Hogsmeade which, from the descriptions in the books, clearly cannot be in Kent.

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Re: 1759: "British Map"

Postby Eudae » Tue Nov 15, 2016 5:43 am UTC

Had to fix the latest comic:

http://imgur.com/a/FkYBz

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Re: 1759: "British Map"

Postby xtifr » Tue Nov 15, 2016 6:26 am UTC

ramblinjd wrote:Others:
    Chough
    Blighton
    Aidenn
    Basil
    Cabinetry
    Cardigan
    Sundial
    Blandford
    Efrafa


Aidenn is quite possibly a reference to Poe's "The Raven":

"Tell this soul with sorrow laden if, within the distant Aidenn
It shall clasp a sainted maiden whom the angels named Lenore."
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Re: 1759: "British Map"

Postby TonyM » Tue Nov 15, 2016 7:18 am UTC

leafar wrote:Can anyone explain the reason for a protractor in between Scotland and Northern Ireland?


Perhaps https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mull_of_Kintyre_test

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Re: 1759: "British Map"

Postby enderlord99 » Tue Nov 15, 2016 9:00 am UTC

Title text reminds me of this.

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Re: 1759: "British Map"

Postby Envelope Generator » Tue Nov 15, 2016 9:59 am UTC

Mikeski wrote:Re: the title text, there are places in the USA like that. The suburbs of Minnesota's capitol:

South Saint Paul is actually south of Saint Paul. We got one right.

North Saint Paul is northeast of Saint Paul, and does not border it.

West Saint Paul is ... south of Saint Paul. Saint Paul actually wraps around it a bit, so you can leave Saint Paul traveling west, go through South Saint Paul, and reach West Saint Paul. You can also leave Saint Paul traveling east, go through Lilydale and Mendota Heights, and reach West Saint Paul.

I have no clue what Saint Paul Park is doing way over there.

(I'm also a bit confused why someplace called "Landfall" exists a thousand miles from the nearest ocean. And why Crystal seems to be playing a game of Qix with New Hope. Gerrymandering, I guess.)

Image


And why is there a Centerville right at the edge?
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Re: 1759: "British Map"

Postby PKM » Tue Nov 15, 2016 11:12 am UTC

From the "Other" list, I assumed Cabinetry was a reference to Coventry as it's somewhere near the right location. The actual Coventry is at South Norwessex, Cabinetry on the map appears to label somewhere between Oswestry and Wrexham, two names at least as weird as some of the fictional names here.

To be honest, the place names here are quite restrained compared with some you'll find in rural bits of the UK. I just picked a random spot on the map which turned out to be in a triangle between Adlestrop, Chadlington and Ascott-under-Wychwood. I grew up driving through Inner Ting Tong, now I ride my bike down Wibbly Wobbly Lane. It's not a comedy stereotype, that's actually what this place sounds like.

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Re: 1759: "British Map"

Postby orthogon » Tue Nov 15, 2016 12:04 pm UTC

DanD wrote:
orthogon wrote:What's with the title? A normal native speaker would say "Map of Britain". Was he trying to avoid the whole England/Britain/UK minefield?

I say again, did he accidentally invent real place names? The real Cadbury is pretty small, but Braintree, Essex is a place I was well aware of. I could imagine somebody not realising that Cardigan and Paisley were places after which the eponymous clothing and pattern were named. But Braintree seems to me to have too much entropy to have been created by accident. Which makes me wonder whether the misplacing is supposed to be part of the joke, or what.


One potential source is US place names. Massachusetts has both a Braintree and an Essex, near the coast (We also have a middlesex, which is indeed west of Essex, but no Sussex or Wessex or Norsex). Of course we also have a Norfolk (county) that is south of Suffolk. Knowing the settlement pattern of the area makes it likely that these are names pulled from Britain, but without providing any clue exactly where.


Ah, you might be right. I'm totally fine with names of towns being reused, but it feels wrong when the name of a county is used for a town. It's a kind of category error or something, rather like the trend (also more common Stateside but becoming more of a thing over here) of using a surname (like Taylor) as a first name.

On the subject of entropy, and thinking about Barnstaple: I wonder if there's a Correcthorsebatterstaple somewhere? If not, maybe we can found such a place, and make it an xkcder's paradise.
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Re: 1759: "British Map"

Postby grkvlt » Tue Nov 15, 2016 12:50 pm UTC

Soupspoon wrote:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_m ... ive_height
There are 120 in total: 82 in Scotland, 24 in Ireland, eight in Wales, four in England and one each in Northern Ireland and the Isle of Man. Of these, the top 110 are above 2000 feet (610 m).

For a longer list, see the lists of Marilyns which include all 2008 hills and mountains in the British Isles with a relative height of at least 150 m.


Argv, I just got that. I'd like to stab whatever person decided it would be hilarious to call mountains smaller than a Munroe (> 3000ft) 'Marilyns' which, I assume are > 2000 ft but less than a Munroe...
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Re: 1759: "British Map"

Postby Rodion Raskolnikov » Tue Nov 15, 2016 12:51 pm UTC

jmose wrote:Uh, Paisley is in the wrong place. It should be just outside Glassdoor, as it is where Glasgow's airport is.


Paisley is near Glasgow, but has no airport. Glasgow has two airports, one in the city and one in Prestwick.

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Re: 1759: "British Map"

Postby Jaruzel » Tue Nov 15, 2016 1:11 pm UTC

Where's the top half of Scotland gone!?

Also, what about Orkney, Shetland, The (rest of) the Western Isles, The Scilly Isles, and the Channel Islands ?

It should be titled 'Map of a bit of Britain, but not quite all of it.' Next time he does the US, I expect Florida, Manhattan, Alaska, and bits of Maine to be missing also to redress the balance.

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Re: 1759: "British Map"

Postby svenman » Tue Nov 15, 2016 1:39 pm UTC

Eudae wrote:Had to fix the latest comic:

http://imgur.com/a/FkYBz

Welcome to the forum. (Huh, interesting that you could include a link on your first post.)

Are you familiar with the xkcdsw thread? Your map would fit in there perfectly. (The "sw" bit is not intended as a comment on the quality of your manip.)
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Re: 1759: "British Map"

Postby Soupspoon » Tue Nov 15, 2016 2:05 pm UTC

grkvlt wrote:[Argv, I just got that. I'd like to stab whatever person decided it would be hilarious to call mountains smaller than a Munroe (>3000ft) 'Marilyns' which, I assume are >2000 ft but less than a Munroe...

Not quite. It's 150m of 'unique peak', or prominence, which means it could be well under a 'mountain' in absolute altitude, but definitely juts up. And then there are "HuMP"s, which are "Hundred Metre Prominences"... and need little further explanation. [Since first writing this, I've discovered that "TuMPs" are Thirty(/"Thurty") Metre Prominences. Not all TuMPs are "tumps" (artificial or natural hillocks), nor are all tumps TuMPs.]

Technically, a Munro (no 'e', definitely named for a person other than Randall) is only in Scotland, but Munro-qualifying (a difficult thing... "Munro Tops" are Munroesque in height but have a greater prominence requirement than mere 'HuMPs') is loosely or widely applied to the rest of the UK, sometimes considering those others as "Furths" ('furth' being Scottish dialect similar to "further (away)", for those outwith of Scotland).

An attempt to make a better objective measurement of 'peak' led to the Murdo classification (I forget its etymology, might be Munro-rooted portmanteau/acronym). All Murdos are a Munro (and vice-versa) or a Munro Top, but not all Tops are Murdos.

Corbetts (for a guy called Corbett) are the 2.5- to 3-thousand feet peaks. Grahams cover 2 to 2.5, and commemorate a list compiler, Miss Graham, but were originally called "Elsies" ("Lesser Corbetts", "LCs") by a guy called Dawson who never became eponymous himself. And a Mr Donald compiled >2000ft peaks in the Lowlands of Scotland, which overlaps somewhat with the above lists, obviously. There are "Tops" lists for all these. The Scots/adopted Scots (who have time) take their geography seriously!

There are also nominative lists by the Nuttalls (England and Wales, >2k ft, Wales being the more mountainous nation between the two by all measures), Wainwright (his noteworthy fells(/summits) above 1k in the Lake District), Birkitt (similar, but not identical, to Wainwright), Hardy (highest bit of a significant locality) and Dewey (500-2000ft), indicating a certain seriousness in list-making amongst the non-Scots, too.

Unlike whoever decided to coin the Hewitts, i.e. "Hills in England, Wales and Ireland over Two Thousand feet". ;)
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Re: 1759: "British Map"

Postby PinkShinyRose » Tue Nov 15, 2016 2:36 pm UTC

wolf99 wrote:Pure pedantry, but Dubstep isn't in Britain.
In fact to be a complete pedanthole, Belfast Devoe isn't in Britain either.

It's no longer caller Britania Minor? All these changes in names. Ridiculous. What's next? You'll tell me they changed the name of Persia? How do you expect anyone to keep up to date with all those newfangled names?
Jaruzel wrote:Where's the top half of Scotland gone!?

Also, what about Orkney, Shetland, The (rest of) the Western Isles, The Scilly Isles, and the Channel Islands ?

It should be titled 'Map of a bit of Britain, but not quite all of it.' Next time he does the US, I expect Florida, Manhattan, Alaska, and bits of Maine to be missing also to redress the balance.

Maybe the top half of Scotland has had enough of those English invaders (again).

Since we're being pedantic: aren't the Channel Islands colonies?

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Re: 1759: "British Map"

Postby ebow » Tue Nov 15, 2016 2:40 pm UTC

Jorpho wrote:What, no Wainscotting?


We've been mentioned on telly the internet!

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Re: 1759: "British Map"

Postby Mutex » Tue Nov 15, 2016 3:05 pm UTC

alanbbent wrote:Unexpected Fhqwhgads.


The Welsh alphabet doesn't have Q.

Sableagle wrote:Randall did get "Eeugh" in the right place, but that's a comment, not a place name. It's actually called Hull.


Isn't "Eeugh" roughly where Grimsby is?

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Re: 1759: "British Map"

Postby gmalivuk » Tue Nov 15, 2016 4:07 pm UTC

Soupspoon wrote:
grkvlt wrote:[Argv, I just got that. I'd like to stab whatever person decided it would be hilarious to call mountains smaller than a Munroe (>3000ft) 'Marilyns' which, I assume are >2000 ft but less than a Munroe...

Not quite. It's 150m of 'unique peak', or prominence, which means it could be well under a 'mountain' in absolute altitude, but definitely juts up. And then there are "HuMP"s, which are "Hundred Metre Prominences"... and need little further explanation. [Since first writing this, I've discovered that "TuMPs" are Thirty(/"Thurty") Metre Prominences. Not all TuMPs are "tumps" (artificial or natural hillocks), nor are all tumps TuMPs.]

Technically, a Munro (no 'e', definitely named for a person other than Randall) is only in Scotland, but Munro-qualifying (a difficult thing... "Munro Tops" are Munroesque in height but have a greater prominence requirement than mere 'HuMPs') is loosely or widely applied to the rest of the UK, sometimes considering those others as "Furths" ('furth' being Scottish dialect similar to "further (away)", for those outwith of Scotland).

An attempt to make a better objective measurement of 'peak' led to the Murdo classification (I forget its etymology, might be Munro-rooted portmanteau/acronym). All Murdos are a Munro (and vice-versa) or a Munro Top, but not all Tops are Murdos.

Corbetts (for a guy called Corbett) are the 2.5- to 3-thousand feet peaks. Grahams cover 2 to 2.5, and commemorate a list compiler, Miss Graham, but were originally called "Elsies" ("Lesser Corbetts", "LCs") by a guy called Dawson who never became eponymous himself. And a Mr Donald compiled >2000ft peaks in the Lowlands of Scotland, which overlaps somewhat with the above lists, obviously. There are "Tops" lists for all these. The Scots/adopted Scots (who have time) take their geography seriously!

There are also nominative lists by the Nuttalls (England and Wales, >2k ft, Wales being the more mountainous nation between the two by all measures), Wainwright (his noteworthy fells(/summits) above 1k in the Lake District), Birkitt (similar, but not identical, to Wainwright), Hardy (highest bit of a significant locality) and Dewey (500-2000ft), indicating a certain seriousness in list-making amongst the non-Scots, too.

Unlike whoever decided to coin the Hewitts, i.e. "Hills in England, Wales and Ireland over Two Thousand feet". ;)
Looks to me like a slew of extra words to compensate for the fact that Britain doesn't have any mountains in it.
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Re: 1759: "British Map"

Postby Mutex » Tue Nov 15, 2016 4:57 pm UTC

England doesn't, but there's mountains in Wales (eg Snowdon) and Scotland (eg Ben Nevis). Not sure about Northern Ireland.

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Re: 1759: "British Map"

Postby svenman » Tue Nov 15, 2016 5:13 pm UTC

PinkShinyRose wrote:
wolf99 wrote:Pure pedantry, but Dubstep isn't in Britain.
In fact to be a complete pedanthole, Belfast Devoe isn't in Britain either.

It's no longer caller Britania Minor? All these changes in names. Ridiculous. What's next?

Ireland never was "Britannia Minor" (though Ptolemy, in the 2nd Century CE, did call Ireland the equivalent in Greek). Historically, the term "Britannia Minor" was instead used for Britanny (Bretagne) – which, by the way, is not the bit of France visible in the map, that is instead (in terms of historical provinces) constituted of parts of Picardy and Normandy.

PinkShinyRose wrote:Since we're being pedantic: aren't the Channel Islands colonies?

If you'll allow me to continue being as pedantic: they are Crown dependencies.
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Re: 1759: "British Map"

Postby Sableagle » Tue Nov 15, 2016 5:20 pm UTC

Mutex wrote:
alanbbent wrote:Unexpected Fhqwhgads.


The Welsh alphabet doesn't have Q.

Sableagle wrote:Randall did get "Eeugh" in the right place, but that's a comment, not a place name. It's actually called Hull.


Isn't "Eeugh" roughly where Grimsby is?


No, that's Hull. Grimsby's on the south side of the Humber, so if we ever dig a ditch joining it to the Mersey the southerners can have Grimsby.

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