1761: "Blame"

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1761: "Blame"

Postby thunk » Fri Nov 18, 2016 5:24 am UTC

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Alt-text: I bet if I yell at my scared friends I will feel better.

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Re: 1761: "Blame"

Postby Pfhorrest » Fri Nov 18, 2016 5:52 am UTC

I feel sad. Bad things are happening. If I were a better person bad things wouldn't be happening to me. A good person could deal with these things and make them not bad, or else not perceive these things as bad because they really aren't, I just wrongly think they are. I am a monster.
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Re: 1761: "Blame"

Postby azule » Fri Nov 18, 2016 6:18 am UTC

I won't take the blame for things going bad here. They shouldn't, but that's not up to me.

*ahem*

I think this comic is about the election results. And Facebook (but don't quote me on that). I've heard that Facebook is a bad place. I don't go there. Can someone confirm?
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Re: 1761: "Blame"

Postby ps.02 » Fri Nov 18, 2016 6:29 am UTC

I don't get it. Is that sort of reasoning or behavior common on Facebook?

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Re: 1761: "Blame"

Postby dash » Fri Nov 18, 2016 7:04 am UTC

ps.02 wrote:I don't get it. Is that sort of reasoning or behavior common on Facebook?


I'd guess the logic is suppose everyone on Facebook blamed all their friends. The resultant chain reaction flame war would obliterate the whole disgusting monstrosity all at once.

On another level, given Randall's Monday November 7 comic where he comes out with "I'm With Her", I liken it to a person who at the last minute thinks the devil is going to win, so he makes a quick deal for his soul just to be on the winning side. Then the devil loses. But he's already lost his soul...

Think about it. No one thinks they're evil themselves. But someone must be, right? Maybe it's you and you just don't know it.
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Re: 1761: "Blame"

Postby Copper Bezel » Fri Nov 18, 2016 7:09 am UTC

Yeah, I'm sure that's exactly what's going through his head.

But no, really, scared and upset people tend to lash out. It's a thing that people do. There's a lot of that going on at the moment in some circles and he's making a PSA reminder that this is a thing.
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Re: 1761: "Blame"

Postby Wee Red Bird » Fri Nov 18, 2016 7:45 am UTC

In Scotland, we had a referendum on Scottish independence.
Then we had a vote for Brexit.
I said no to both.
But, according to people on Facebook, I'm in the wrong and the one to blame for all the trouble we were going to get anyway no matter what the result was.
My friend list is now considerably shorter and I rarely venture there these days.

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Re: 1761: "Blame"

Postby Steve the Pocket » Fri Nov 18, 2016 8:55 am UTC

*shrug* Gotta blame it on something. And the rain is an unlikely culprit in this case.
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Re: 1761: "Blame"

Postby Flumble » Fri Nov 18, 2016 9:08 am UTC

I'd say go all out on facebook and then stop using facebook. That way everybody wins! (except for people working at facebook, but they could, like, turn whatsapp and the rift into great products)
Actually, don't blame your friends/"friends" on facebook, but blame facebook itself. It's their walling off of social groups that is causing all the bad things!

dash wrote:Think about it. No one thinks they're evil themselves. But someone must be, right? Maybe it's you and you just don't know it.

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Re: 1761: "Blame"

Postby Copper Bezel » Fri Nov 18, 2016 9:29 am UTC

Yeah. Social media enables social interaction. That can't not be worthy of blame.
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Re: 1761: "Blame"

Postby OP Tipping » Fri Nov 18, 2016 9:41 am UTC

My FBFs and I are not mad at each other. And we aren't blaming each other. Ultimately no one is to blame for someone voting a certain way except for that person.

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Re: 1761: "Blame"

Postby teelo » Fri Nov 18, 2016 11:35 am UTC

Swing-and-a-miss with this comic.

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Re: 1761: "Blame"

Postby orthogon » Fri Nov 18, 2016 12:40 pm UTC

Steve the Pocket wrote:*shrug* Gotta blame it on something. And the rain is an unlikely culprit in this case.

So to be clear, you're not blaming it on the rain. What measure of culpability do you ascribe to solar radiation? Lunar illumination? etc.
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Re: 1761: "Blame"

Postby sfmans » Fri Nov 18, 2016 12:59 pm UTC

orthogon wrote:
Steve the Pocket wrote:*shrug* Gotta blame it on something. And the rain is an unlikely culprit in this case.

So to be clear, you're not blaming it on the rain. What measure of culpability do you ascribe to solar radiation? Lunar illumination? etc.


Don't blame it on the moonlight ... blame it on the boogie.

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Re: 1761: "Blame"

Postby somitomi » Fri Nov 18, 2016 1:48 pm UTC

azule wrote: I've heard that Facebook is a bad place. I don't go there. Can someone confirm?

I'm not sure if it's a bad place, although I think it is unpleasant. But since all my friends1 are using it, it is the best way to communicate with them. Like an old subway network, it's not pleasant to be there, but it is the fastest available mode of transportation in a city.
1: as alluded to before, "friend" might not be the best word here. In Hungarian the word for "acquaintance" is used instead, which I think is a better choice, although it might be too formal in English (I sometimes struggle with this, and "how formal is word X" isn't something Google answers well).
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Re: 1761: "Blame"

Postby netsplit » Fri Nov 18, 2016 2:01 pm UTC

This comic was a GOMHR moment for me. I let the Trump voters have it on Facebook. It wasn't pretty, and I'm a little embarrassed about it. Still he is going to hurt a lot of people, and his voters need to understand the evil they voted for, out of selfishness or stupidity.

The question becomes, what to do to fight the monster now.
Last edited by netsplit on Fri Nov 18, 2016 2:15 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 1761: "Blame"

Postby New User » Fri Nov 18, 2016 2:07 pm UTC

"Friend" is just a friendlier word. "Acquaintance" means you know someone, and does not imply friendship, or in other words, it does not imply that you want to share that person's company. I am acquainted with my friends, as well as my enemies.

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Re: 1761: "Blame"

Postby orthogon » Fri Nov 18, 2016 2:46 pm UTC

New User wrote:"Friend" is just a friendlier word. "Acquaintance" means you know someone, and does not imply friendship, or in other words, it does not imply that you want to share that person's company. I am acquainted with my friends, as well as my enemies.

Not just that: because acquaintances are a superset of friends, acquaintance strongly implies that the person in question is not in the "friend" category. This scene from Withnail & I demonstrates the usage.
xtifr wrote:... and orthogon merely sounds undecided.

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Re: 1761: "Blame"

Postby PinkShinyRose » Fri Nov 18, 2016 2:54 pm UTC

New User wrote:"Friend" is just a friendlier word. "Acquaintance" means you know someone, and does not imply friendship, or in other words, it does not imply that you want to share that person's company. I am acquainted with my friends, as well as my enemies.

But actually denying a friend-request of someone you know in meatspace seems rude (of course, they may not be on certain lists).
somitomi wrote:(I sometimes struggle with this, and "how formal is word X" isn't something Google answers well).

I think this also varies by country even when using the same language. To look at my own native language: the word "u" (formal 'you', like French singular 'vous' or German capitalised 'Sie') is used a lot in Belgium, even when speaking to someone a lot younger then yourself or to someone of similar status you're reasonably acquainted with, while in most of those situations the more informal 'jij' is used in the Netherlands, often even to complete strangers that are much older than the speaker.

EDIT: Since I'm not exposed to the whole US election thing as much as the locals are: is this comic almost definitely still about the election? I initially interpreted it as being about things like war, rape, oppression etc. in general.

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Re: 1761: "Blame"

Postby richP » Fri Nov 18, 2016 3:19 pm UTC

Copper Bezel wrote:Yeah. Social media enables social interaction. That can't not be worthy of blame.


I think the argument is that "Social media" enables asocial interaction, perhaps more so than social interaction.

Oops, I'm on a message board, I'm doing this all wrong, aren't I? Umm... of course it's worthy of blame you empty headed food trough wiper. Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries!

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Re: 1761: "Blame"

Postby DanD » Fri Nov 18, 2016 3:30 pm UTC

PinkShinyRose wrote: EDIT: Since I'm not exposed to the whole US election thing as much as the locals are: is this comic almost definitely still about the election? I initially interpreted it as being about things like war, rape, oppression etc. in general.


I think for most on the left side of the US political spectrum, there isn't a lot of difference. We elected a president that we feel normalizes rape and oppression.

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Re: 1761: "Blame"

Postby orthogon » Fri Nov 18, 2016 3:44 pm UTC

PinkShinyRose wrote:
New User wrote:"Friend" is just a friendlier word. "Acquaintance" means you know someone, and does not imply friendship, or in other words, it does not imply that you want to share that person's company. I am acquainted with my friends, as well as my enemies.

But actually denying a friend-request of someone you know in meatspace seems rude (of course, they may not be on certain lists).
somitomi wrote:(I sometimes struggle with this, and "how formal is word X" isn't something Google answers well).

I think this also varies by country even when using the same language. To look at my own native language: the word "u" (formal 'you', like French singular 'vous' or German capitalised 'Sie') is used a lot in Belgium, even when speaking to someone a lot younger then yourself or to someone of similar status you're reasonably acquainted with, while in most of those situations the more informal 'jij' is used in the Netherlands, often even to complete strangers that are much older than the speaker.


It's interesting that (according to The Great Wiki) jij appears to have shifted from V-pronoun to neutral pronoun to T-pronoun, and then u came along later and filled the V- slot. That explains why jij is closer to English you/ye (also originally the V-pronoun), which surprised me at first and sent me on the wikiwalk.

Strength of swearwords is another thing that doesn't always map cleanly. A friend of mine who teaches English has a list of words categerised by strength, from 1-star up to 5-star. There's only one word in the top category.
xtifr wrote:... and orthogon merely sounds undecided.

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Re: 1761: "Blame"

Postby Stargazer71 » Fri Nov 18, 2016 4:33 pm UTC

netsplit wrote:This comic was a GOMHR moment for me. I let the Trump voters have it on Facebook. It wasn't pretty, and I'm a little embarrassed about it. Still he is going to hurt a lot of people, and his voters need to understand the evil they voted for, out of selfishness or stupidity.

The question becomes, what to do to fight the monster now.


And this comment explains the comic in its entirety. You didn't unload on Trump voters. You unloaded on your friends--and no one else. Nice job.

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Re: 1761: "Blame"

Postby gmalivuk » Fri Nov 18, 2016 5:16 pm UTC

More like on people you thought were your friends but who just voted for a person whose administration and supporters constitute a credible threat to millions of vulnerable Americans including possibly you and your loved ones.

(The comic describes yelling at scared people, which is not a reference to yelling at Trump voters. More likely it refers to things like the blame-slinging among progressives about whose fault it was that Clinton lost.)
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Re: 1761: "Blame"

Postby Tyndmyr » Fri Nov 18, 2016 5:19 pm UTC

There's some of that. Sanders vs Clinton acrimony, third party voters being blamed, etc.

Facebook's kind of a dumpster fire since the elections.

But ya, yelling at people on there will likely fix exactly nothing. Particularly when yelling at people who didn't vote for Trump.

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Re: 1761: "Blame"

Postby Stargazer71 » Fri Nov 18, 2016 5:22 pm UTC

gmalivuk wrote:More like on people you thought were your friends but who just voted for a person whose administration ...


I am friends with a bunch of liberals. I can say with absolutely no hesitation that a meaningful friendship is worth *way* more than any political view. Unloading on them because you're disappointed in an election result is, frankly, childish.

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Re: 1761: "Blame"

Postby Zylon » Fri Nov 18, 2016 6:01 pm UTC

Oh good, Randall's being smug and preachy again. Always hilarious.

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Re: 1761: "Blame"

Postby azule » Fri Nov 18, 2016 8:07 pm UTC

Wee Red Bird wrote:But, according to people on Facebook, I'm in the wrong and the one to blame for all the trouble we were going to get anyway no matter what the result was.
My friend list is now considerably shorter and I rarely venture there these days.

Sorry to hear. Kinda sounds like my story.

OP Tipping wrote:My FBFs and I are not mad at each other. And we aren't blaming each other. Ultimately no one is to blame for someone voting a certain way except for that person.

I'm glad it went well for you. On the blame game, you really don't think the fear mongers/peddlers had any hand in swaying people's votes?

somitomi wrote:
azule wrote: I've heard that Facebook is a bad place. I don't go there. Can someone confirm?

I'm not sure if it's a bad place, although I think it is unpleasant. But since all my friends are using it, it is the best way to communicate with them.

So it's bad but contains good people, your friends. You didn't mention the bad people. I always hear of them. Do they not exist in your, um, "network"?

netsplit wrote:I let the Trump voters have it on Facebook. It wasn't pretty, and I'm a little embarrassed about it. Still he is going to hurt a lot of people, and his voters need to understand the evil they voted for, out of selfishness or stupidity.

Are you sure you didn't instead cement their position that people like you are the enemy and instead entrench their support with Trump?

somitomi wrote:[A]s alluded to before, "friend" might not be the best word here. In Hungarian the word for "acquaintance" is used instead, which I think is a better choice, although it might be too formal in English (I sometimes struggle with this, and "how formal is word X" isn't something Google answers well).

I think formality here is in the mind of the individual. I would normally say friend only for those I actually consider friends (along the lines of "best friends", but that's like a best man, you can only have a few of those). But I might call people friends who haven't been properly vetted yet (i.e. they might turn on me, don't know) just because they and I are rather "friendly" to each other. Like I might share some secrets. I don't have another name for people in this category, except I guess they're not qualifiable as "real" friends yet. Below that is acquaintance. These people are not enemies. I might be acquainted with an enemy but they're not an acquaintance, i.e. someone I'd want to associate myself with in pictures or gatherings, someone who I can have a cordial interaction with even if not exactly genuine. I guess, in today's parlance, those would be frenemies.

So, in conclusion "friend" is an okay term for that use, but "acquaintance" might be better.
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Re: 1761: "Blame"

Postby ps.02 » Fri Nov 18, 2016 8:43 pm UTC

azule wrote:So, in conclusion "friend" is an okay term for that use, but "acquaintance" might be better.

From what I can tell from the outside, Facebook friend is its own term now, related to friend merely by etymology. A bit like breakfast cereal, which descends from cereal, but is at once much more specific (cereals processed and baked in very particular ways), and inaccurate (many breakfast cereals feature all sorts of ingredients other than cereal grains, such as honey, dried fruit, nuts, and added sugar).

If we were to rewind 15 years and come up with a more proper term, it might indeed be acquaintance or even contact, but that ship has sailed. Too bad faux ami already has a completely different meaning, right?

(Edit: Though this discussion is a little off point, as Randall didn't use say Facebook friend but friends on Facebook, so apparently he's referring to those of his Facebook friends who are actual friends.)

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Re: 1761: "Blame"

Postby gmalivuk » Fri Nov 18, 2016 8:54 pm UTC

Stargazer71 wrote:
gmalivuk wrote:More like on people you thought were your friends but who just voted for a person whose administration ...


I am friends with a bunch of liberals. I can say with absolutely no hesitation that a meaningful friendship is worth *way* more than any political view. Unloading on them because you're disappointed in an election result is, frankly, childish.
Is it a meaningful friendship if they voted for someone who wants to ban people of your religion from entering the country? Or have you register? Is it a meaningful friendship if they voted for a VP who thinks people like you should be tortured until they turn straight? Is it a meaningful friendship if they voted for someone who called people like you drug dealers and rapists?

It's not unloading on them because you're disappointed in the results, it's unloading on them because you're disappointed in their decision, which proves how little they actually care about people like you.

Eric Berg shared or wrote:I am not mad at you that Clinton lost. I am unconcerned that we have different politics. And I don't think less of you because you vote one way and I vote another. No... I think less of you because you watched an adult mock a disabled person in front of a crowd and still supported him. I think less of you because you saw a man spouting clear racism and backed him. I think less of you because you listened to him advocate for war crimes, and still thought he should run this country. I think less of you because you watched him equate a woman's worth to her appearance and got on board. It isn't your politics that I find repulsive. It is your personal willingness to support racism, sexism, and cruelty. You sided with a bully when it mattered and that is something I will never forget. So, no... you and I won't be "coming together" to move forward or whatever. Trump disgusts me, but it is the fact that he doesn't disgust you that will stick with me long after this election.
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Re: 1761: "Blame"

Postby Pfhorrest » Fri Nov 18, 2016 8:59 pm UTC

Alice and Bob are nominally friends. Alice is always a super nice person who doesn't do anything to attack or hurt people. Bob thus far hasn't really done much of exceptional note against Alice, so Alice, nice person that she is, is friendly with Bob. Then one day Bob reveals himself to be a jackass who does something that seriously threatens Alice's wellbeing, knowing full well that it will do so. Alice no longer wants to be friends with Bob. Bob complains that he has absolutely no problem remaining friends with Alice, he's got no problem with her at all, so why does she have to be such a bitch and break off their friendship just over some little disagreement?

The moral of the story is: just because you find a certain group of people tolerable enough to be friends with, doesn't mean that you are tolerable enough for them to want to be friends back.
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Re: 1761: "Blame"

Postby netsplit » Fri Nov 18, 2016 9:29 pm UTC

Stargazer71 wrote:
netsplit wrote:This comic was a GOMHR moment for me. I let the Trump voters have it on Facebook. It wasn't pretty, and I'm a little embarrassed about it. Still he is going to hurt a lot of people, and his voters need to understand the evil they voted for, out of selfishness or stupidity.

The question becomes, what to do to fight the monster now.


And this comment explains the comic in its entirety. You didn't unload on Trump voters. You unloaded on your friends--and no one else. Nice job.


I unloaded on asshats I saw supporting Trump. Realty not that complicated.

Considering they voted for great harm to a lot of people, it's not unwarranted either.
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Re: 1761: "Blame"

Postby gmalivuk » Fri Nov 18, 2016 9:54 pm UTC

Stargazer71 wrote:
netsplit wrote:This comic was a GOMHR moment for me. I let the Trump voters have it on Facebook. It wasn't pretty, and I'm a little embarrassed about it. Still he is going to hurt a lot of people, and his voters need to understand the evil they voted for, out of selfishness or stupidity.

The question becomes, what to do to fight the monster now.
And this comment explains the comic in its entirety. You didn't unload on Trump voters. You unloaded on your friends--and no one else. Nice job.
Yeah, what part of netsplit's post suggests unloading on only (or even any) friends?
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Re: 1761: "Blame"

Postby Stargazer71 » Fri Nov 18, 2016 10:04 pm UTC

gmalivuk wrote:
Stargazer71 wrote:
netsplit wrote:This comic was a GOMHR moment for me. I let the Trump voters have it on Facebook. It wasn't pretty, and I'm a little embarrassed about it. Still he is going to hurt a lot of people, and his voters need to understand the evil they voted for, out of selfishness or stupidity.

The question becomes, what to do to fight the monster now.
And this comment explains the comic in its entirety. You didn't unload on Trump voters. You unloaded on your friends--and no one else. Nice job.
Yeah, what part of netsplit's post suggests unloading on only (or even any) friends?


The fact that the only people who are going to see it are those who were formerly his or her friends. Seems like that was the point of the comic really.

I have a lot of conservative friends. I have a lot of liberal friends. I choose not to have friends (like netsplit--or you for that matter) that put politics above personal relationships.
Last edited by Stargazer71 on Fri Nov 18, 2016 10:11 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 1761: "Blame"

Postby gmalivuk » Fri Nov 18, 2016 10:11 pm UTC

Stargazer71 wrote:The fact that the only people who are going to see it are those who were formerly his or her friends.
How do you know that's a fact?

I have a lot of conservative friends. I have a lot of liberal friends. I choose not to have friends like netsplit that put politics above personal relationships.
Yes, we already know that you are personally unaffected enough by this election that you're not going to be the one to stop being friends with those who voted for a bigoted probably-rapist and his virulently homophobic running-mate. That doesn't mean people who are legitimately afraid of what Trump's America will look like (and what it has already started to become) have any responsibility to remain friends with the people who showed with their votes how little they care about some people's well-being.
Unless stated otherwise, I do not care whether a statement, by itself, constitutes a persuasive political argument. I care whether it's true.
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Re: 1761: "Blame"

Postby Stargazer71 » Fri Nov 18, 2016 10:14 pm UTC

gmalivuk wrote:How do you know that's a fact?


Because the only exceptions are celebrities and politicians. I'm making the very safe assumption that if netsplit were any of these, he or she wouldn't be hanging around here.

gmalivuk wrote:Yes, we already know that you are personally unaffected enough by this election that you're not going to be the one to stop being friends with those who voted for a bigoted probably-rapist and his virulently homophobic running-mate. That doesn't mean people who are legitimately afraid of what Trump's America will look like (and what it has already started to become) have any responsibility to remain friends with the people who showed with their votes how little they care about some people's well-being.


You must be the life of every party you go to :roll: .

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Re: 1761: "Blame"

Postby gmalivuk » Fri Nov 18, 2016 10:39 pm UTC

Stargazer71 wrote:
gmalivuk wrote:How do you know that's a fact?


Because the only exceptions are celebrities and politicians. I'm making the very safe assumption that if netsplit were any of these, he or she wouldn't be hanging around here.
Do... do you actually know how Facebook works?

Are you under the impression that only celebrities and politicians are able to interact with people on Facebook who are not their direct friends?

gmalivuk wrote:Yes, we already know that you are personally unaffected enough by this election that you're not going to be the one to stop being friends with those who voted for a bigoted probably-rapist and his virulently homophobic running-mate. That doesn't mean people who are legitimately afraid of what Trump's America will look like (and what it has already started to become) have any responsibility to remain friends with the people who showed with their votes how little they care about some people's well-being.
You must be the life of every party you go to :roll: .
I don't go to parties full of shitty people who vote for rapists and homophobes, so actually I'm pretty okay at parties.
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Re: 1761: "Blame"

Postby Stargazer71 » Fri Nov 18, 2016 10:49 pm UTC

gmalivuk wrote:Are you under the impression that only celebrities and politicians are able to interact with people on Facebook who are not their direct friends?


Nope. I'm pretty comfortable in the knowledge that nobody gives a sh** about what anybody says on facebook, with the only notable exceptions being celebrities, politicians, and one's own friends.

I mean seriously now. Are you trying to convince me that netsplit's facebook rant had any impact beyond friends and acquaintances? The fact that we've talked about it for a half dozen posts now has probably expanded the scope of the rant dramatically.

You know that's true, even if you're too stuck up to admit it.

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Re: 1761: "Blame"

Postby gmalivuk » Fri Nov 18, 2016 10:54 pm UTC

Stargazer71 wrote:I mean seriously now. Are you trying to convince me that netsplit's facebook rant had any impact beyond friends and acquaintances?
You didn't say "impact", you talked about who was unloaded on.

Which suggests that you believe it's impossible to "unload on" people who aren't your personal Facebook friends, which made me wonder whether you've actually used Facebook or understand how it works.
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Re: 1761: "Blame"

Postby azule » Fri Nov 18, 2016 11:21 pm UTC

I was under the impression that your "friends" could be "friends of friends". Or, that you can reply to comments of people you're not friends with.

The comic was saying friends, though...
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