1776: "Reindeer"

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1776: "Reindeer"

Postby Raidri » Fri Dec 23, 2016 12:35 pm UTC

Image
Title text: And then in a twinkling, a sound gave me pause / From the roof came the scratching of eight tarsal claws.

BHG is coming to town ... run, children!
Last edited by gmalivuk on Wed Dec 28, 2016 10:48 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: put quotes in the subject

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Re: 1776: Reindeer

Postby Wheeljack » Fri Dec 23, 2016 12:44 pm UTC

Sleipnir the eight-legged reindeer.

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Re: 1776: Reindeer

Postby cellocgw » Fri Dec 23, 2016 1:43 pm UTC

One does wonder, briefly, why a horse that can fly needs 8 legs in the first place. I guess it's kind of like The Panda's Thumb: evolution sometimes produces unlikely outcomes. :mrgreen:
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Re: 1776: Reindeer

Postby Keyman » Fri Dec 23, 2016 1:47 pm UTC

If this comes in a box of 20, I'll take five for my next year's round of holiday cards.
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Re: 1776: Reindeer

Postby somitomi » Fri Dec 23, 2016 2:08 pm UTC

cellocgw wrote:One does wonder, briefly, why a horse that can fly needs 8 legs in the first place. I guess it's kind of like The Panda's Thumb: evolution sometimes produces unlikely outcomes. :mrgreen:

Mythical cretaures probably can't rely on paved runways, and those extra legs might help landing on rough terrain. Or it's just some gimmick, there are lot of flying mythical horses after all.
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Djehutynakht
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Re: 1776: Reindeer

Postby Djehutynakht » Fri Dec 23, 2016 3:24 pm UTC

Black Hat Guy's head seems a little too big in this comic and it's bugging me.

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Re: 1776: Reindeer

Postby flicky1991 » Fri Dec 23, 2016 3:35 pm UTC

Djehutynakht wrote:Black Hat Guy's head seems a little too big in this comic and it's bugging me.

Nah, it's just closer than the rest of his body.
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Re: 1776: Reindeer

Postby DavidSh » Fri Dec 23, 2016 3:39 pm UTC

Is this new, associating Santa Claus with Odin? (Sleipnir is Odin's steed) Most theories I have heard that connect Santa with Norse mythology associate Santa with Thor, whose chariot is pulled by a pair of goats.

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Re: 1776: Reindeer

Postby ShuRugal » Fri Dec 23, 2016 4:06 pm UTC

DavidSh wrote:Is this new, associating Santa Claus with Odin? (Sleipnir is Odin's steed) Most theories I have heard that connect Santa with Norse mythology associate Santa with Thor, whose chariot is pulled by a pair of goats.


Well, Jim Butcher has been doing it for years, and he is pretty good about doing his mythological homework.

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Re: 1776: Reindeer

Postby rmsgrey » Fri Dec 23, 2016 4:33 pm UTC

One theory I've not seen around (having not done much research, so it's probably out there) is that the 8-legged steed descends from representative art where speed is conveyed by drawing each of the 4 legs twice (comics with the Flash in often have strobing after-images to convey speed and path of motion, so it's not like the technique's not still around)

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Re: 1776: Reindeer

Postby orthogon » Fri Dec 23, 2016 4:33 pm UTC

What I want to know is whether it's some kind of enormous arachnid disguised as a reindeer, or whether he's genetically engineered a reindeer with the extra legs. Maybe he hired Beret Guy's biotech company. Seems like the kind of thing he could knock up in an afternoon.
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dash
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Re: 1776: Reindeer

Postby dash » Fri Dec 23, 2016 5:14 pm UTC

OK, that one was pretty good.
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Re: 1776: Reindeer

Postby Quizatzhaderac » Fri Dec 23, 2016 5:40 pm UTC

cellocgw wrote:One does wonder, briefly, why a horse that can fly needs 8 legs in the first place.
Obviously, so it can fly faster.
Djehutynakht wrote:Black Hat Guy's head seems a little too big in this comic and it's bugging me.
A little? It's about twenty times as wide as his torso.
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Re: 1776: Reindeer

Postby commodorejohn » Fri Dec 23, 2016 5:48 pm UTC

Still not as terrifying as this...
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Re: 1776: Reindeer

Postby Steve the Pocket » Fri Dec 23, 2016 6:15 pm UTC

orthogon wrote:What I want to know is whether it's some kind of enormous arachnid disguised as a reindeer, or whether he's genetically engineered a reindeer with the extra legs. Maybe he hired Beret Guy's biotech company. Seems like the kind of thing he could knock up in an afternoon.

My interpretation was that it was just a front yard decoration he'd taken the liberty of modifying. Explains why it still looks like a deer rather than a reindeer. (Just recently I casually mentioned this common mistake on another forum, and a regular who lives in Finland was shocked and a bit embarrassed that he'd never noticed the discrepancy before.)
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Re: 1776: Reindeer

Postby yakkoTDI » Fri Dec 23, 2016 8:40 pm UTC

orthogon wrote:Seems like the kind of thing he could knock up in an afternoon.


Assuming local bestiality laws don't forbid said knocking up.

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Re: 1776: Reindeer

Postby Plasma Mongoose » Fri Dec 23, 2016 9:08 pm UTC

yakkoTDI wrote:
orthogon wrote:Seems like the kind of thing he could knock up in an afternoon.


Assuming local bestiality laws don't forbid said knocking up.


Loki was the one who got knocked up, that's what you get for disguising oneself as a mare.
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Re: 1776: Reindeer

Postby Opipik » Sat Dec 24, 2016 9:41 am UTC

Am I the only one who finds the reindeer cute?

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Re: 1776: Reindeer

Postby Sableagle » Sat Dec 24, 2016 6:23 pm UTC

Opipik wrote:Am I the only one who finds the reindeer cute?

Cute? It's adorable!

I thought the eight legs were for clinging to the roof, or maybe walking vertically up and down house walls.

...

Well of course it's a spider. We do our Christmas shopping on the Web, don't we?
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Re: 1776: Reindeer

Postby Heimhenge » Sat Dec 24, 2016 10:17 pm UTC

Had to post a reply since I've always wanted to see a double Moon.

So what to say ... I like the arachnodeer too. Would use this on a future holiday card.

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Re: 1776: Reindeer

Postby Sdrawkcab » Sun Dec 25, 2016 3:33 am UTC

So is this how he got the name Santa Claws?

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Re: 1776: Reindeer

Postby Copper Bezel » Sun Dec 25, 2016 7:44 am UTC

rmsgrey wrote:One theory I've not seen around (having not done much research, so it's probably out there) is that the 8-legged steed descends from representative art where speed is conveyed by drawing each of the 4 legs twice (comics with the Flash in often have strobing after-images to convey speed and path of motion, so it's not like the technique's not still around)

Intriguing. I'd have guessed that that technique of illustrating motion came out of the new visual metaphors of time and motion that were sort of unlocked by photography with its blurs and multiple exposures and especially by filming motion for the first time. And not just because we're talking about running horses. It was supposedly inspired by those things when Futurism got ahold of it. Does anyone have any reference for an image before the 1880s that works this way?
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Re: 1776: Reindeer

Postby rmsgrey » Sun Dec 25, 2016 11:58 am UTC

Copper Bezel wrote:
rmsgrey wrote:One theory I've not seen around (having not done much research, so it's probably out there) is that the 8-legged steed descends from representative art where speed is conveyed by drawing each of the 4 legs twice (comics with the Flash in often have strobing after-images to convey speed and path of motion, so it's not like the technique's not still around)

Intriguing. I'd have guessed that that technique of illustrating motion came out of the new visual metaphors of time and motion that were sort of unlocked by photography with its blurs and multiple exposures and especially by filming motion for the first time. And not just because we're talking about running horses. It was supposedly inspired by those things when Futurism got ahold of it. Does anyone have any reference for an image before the 1880s that works this way?


Get a friend to whirl a sling fast enough, with the axis perpendicular to you, and you mostly see blurred images of it at the extremes (with a more transparent blur in the middle). The way perceptions work with fast-moving objects has been within the scope of human experience for thousands of years. Wikipedia says that possible zoetropes go back as much as 5000 years (though there are no unambiguous examples until the 19th century)

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Re: 1776: Reindeer

Postby gd1 » Mon Dec 26, 2016 6:25 am UTC

What happened in 1776?
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Re: 1776: Reindeer

Postby orthogon » Mon Dec 26, 2016 8:52 am UTC

rmsgrey wrote:
Copper Bezel wrote:
rmsgrey wrote:One theory I've not seen around (having not done much research, so it's probably out there) is that the 8-legged steed descends from representative art where speed is conveyed by drawing each of the 4 legs twice (comics with the Flash in often have strobing after-images to convey speed and path of motion, so it's not like the technique's not still around)

Intriguing. I'd have guessed that that technique of illustrating motion came out of the new visual metaphors of time and motion that were sort of unlocked by photography with its blurs and multiple exposures and especially by filming motion for the first time. And not just because we're talking about running horses. It was supposedly inspired by those things when Futurism got ahold of it. Does anyone have any reference for an image before the 1880s that works this way?


Get a friend to whirl a sling fast enough, with the axis perpendicular to you, and you mostly see blurred images of it at the extremes (with a more transparent blur in the middle). The way perceptions work with fast-moving objects has been within the scope of human experience for thousands of years. Wikipedia says that possible zoetropes go back as much as 5000 years (though there are no unambiguous examples until the 19th century)

Blurring, yes, but I see CB's point that multiple distinct images of a moving object are probably an artefact of photography and particularly cinema. Taking and presenting a series of stills is a sampling process, and seeing multiple images is an aliasing effect. If the shutter time for the exposures is a sufficiently large proportion of the time between exposures (I.e. frames) then the integration over the exposure time acts as a reasonable prefilter, removing the higher frequencies (in the spatio-temporal domain) and you get motion blur. But if you use very short exposures, as is particularly common in sports coverage, you get the multiple image effect. Now far as I know there's no known sense in which the human visual system itself works with a sequence of still images, but I'd be delighted to hear that there is. I always like it when we engineers find out that evolution chose the same solution.

ETA: This isn't to say that people didn't think of showing the legs in multiple positions as a way to represent movement before cinema, just that they hadn't seen it with their own eyes.
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Re: 1776: Reindeer

Postby Spectrum » Mon Dec 26, 2016 3:21 pm UTC

Steve the Pocket wrote:
orthogon wrote:What I want to know is whether it's some kind of enormous arachnid disguised as a reindeer, or whether he's genetically engineered a reindeer with the extra legs. Maybe he hired Beret Guy's biotech company. Seems like the kind of thing he could knock up in an afternoon.

My interpretation was that it was just a front yard decoration he'd taken the liberty of modifying.


The legs remind me strongly of the bugs in the game of Cootie, so I suspect that's where Randall cribbed the design from.

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Re: 1776: Reindeer

Postby Reka » Mon Dec 26, 2016 5:00 pm UTC

Copper Bezel wrote:Intriguing. I'd have guessed that that technique of illustrating motion came out of the new visual metaphors of time and motion that were sort of unlocked by photography...

In a word, nope.
Image
That was painted about 30,000 years ago. There are numerous such examples in cave art around the world; this was just the easiest one to find with multiple legs. (There are also paintings with multiple heads, multiple tails, and various other artifacts of motion/animation.)

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Re: 1776: Reindeer

Postby SuicideJunkie » Mon Dec 26, 2016 10:48 pm UTC

The motion blurs out when it is going fast.
The amount of light you see is proportional to the time the leg spends in each position.

And the leg swinging back and forth will have to stop (and thus spend most of its time there) in order to reverse direction in two places (fully forward and fully back). Thus two images at ~35% intensity and the remaining 30% smeared thinly.


What I find interesting is that the opposite is true for quantum systems, where the object is more likely to be found at the bottom of the energy well where you'd think it would be going faster and spend less time.

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Re: 1776: Reindeer

Postby Mahnarch » Tue Dec 27, 2016 5:27 pm UTC

Copper Bezel wrote:
rmsgrey wrote:One theory I've not seen around (having not done much research, so it's probably out there) is that the 8-legged steed descends from representative art where speed is conveyed by drawing each of the 4 legs twice (comics with the Flash in often have strobing after-images to convey speed and path of motion, so it's not like the technique's not still around)

Intriguing. I'd have guessed that that technique of illustrating motion came out of the new visual metaphors of time and motion that were sort of unlocked by photography with its blurs and multiple exposures and especially by filming motion for the first time. And not just because we're talking about running horses. It was supposedly inspired by those things when Futurism got ahold of it. Does anyone have any reference for an image before the 1880s that works this way?


Meep-meep!

Image

[Edit: That's an Acme bow he's using. Prepare for an explosion.]

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Re: 1776: Reindeer

Postby somitomi » Wed Dec 28, 2016 11:22 am UTC

Mahnarch wrote:e]

Meep-meep!

Image

[Edit: That's an Acme bow he's using. Prepare for an explosion.]

But first it will ricochet off a few boulders in the most implausible manner to land right in front of whoever shot it.
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Re: 1776: Reindeer

Postby Copper Bezel » Wed Dec 28, 2016 9:49 pm UTC

Mahnarch wrote:Meep-meep!

Image

[Edit: That's an Acme bow he's using. Prepare for an explosion.]
Mahnarch, thank you for making this thread beautiful.
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Re: 1776: Reindeer

Postby Mahnarch » Thu Dec 29, 2016 2:30 am UTC

Mahnarch, thank you for making this thread beautiful.


:D

I would have done the deer legs, too, but doing just the hunter's took me half an hour.


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Re: 1776: Reindeer

Postby drachefly » Fri Dec 30, 2016 7:17 pm UTC

SuicideJunkie wrote:What I find interesting is that the opposite is true for quantum systems, where the object is more likely to be found at the bottom of the energy well where you'd think it would be going faster and spend less time.


Only in the ground state. In any excited state, especially the higher excited states, the more classical expectation holds.


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