1804: "Video Content"

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Re: 1804: "Video Content"

Postby Soupspoon » Wed Mar 01, 2017 2:12 am UTC

"Once upon a time, best beloved, in a land out west during the dawning of the world there lived a Trump. He had pale skin and not so much hair and only a million or so dollars handed down from his father. Being so dissatisfied with his appearance, he persuaded the porcupine to drag his hair impossibly forward and made an artificial sun to bronze his face, all except around his eyes, where he wore goggles to stop his little artificial sun making him go blind. The money that he had he spent, but in such a way that others felt compelled to lend him more. He spent this new money and lost much of it, even though some of that was upon casinos, and casinos so very rarely lose all their money. In the end, he saved money by showing the people who take the taxes that he had no taxes to give, because he had no money. Just buildings and companies and planes and books, best beloved. But he did not tell anyone else that he had no wealth, and so people kept letting him spend other people's money, because that is how the world worked in the High and Far-Off Times..."

(etc, naturally, with the Kipling parody, but that's getting too close to current and future satire to finish off just yet. Imagine it being told around a tribal campfire, though, in the wilds of central DC as the coyotes howl from not far enough beyond the flickering shadows...)

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Re: 1804: "Video Content"

Postby drazen » Wed Mar 01, 2017 4:21 am UTC

Only on XKCD can a comic about the stupidity of video news generate an entire page on writing standards.

Also, whoever decided to put the news into videos, and then, on top of that irritating stupidity, put autoplay ads on them that somehow always seem to bypass your settings to NEVER autoplay video, should be castrated, covered in poisonous radioactive cockroaches, lit on fire, and launched into the sun. I'm looking at you, CNN.

I can't get through the video news without being frustrated. Same problem as voice mail, it's just inefficient communication. Get to the point, video/voice mail. If I was reading the same info, I'd be done twenty times faster.
Last edited by drazen on Wed Mar 01, 2017 9:46 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 1804: "Video Content"

Postby Gammarad » Wed Mar 01, 2017 5:06 am UTC

Interestingly, younger people are actually the ones who prefer video as a source of news least, and most prefer reading their news.

At least according to fairly recent Pew research:

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/20 ... ding-news/

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Re: 1804: "Video Content"

Postby orthogon » Wed Mar 01, 2017 2:58 pm UTC

RCT Bob wrote:My head doesn't have a voice. Am I weird for that reason?

What about your normal mouth?

Wee Red Bird wrote:I prefer written to video, though if you read some of a certain leader's transcripts, they are even more unintelligible than the video.
It makes it easier to catch up on information while at work, without having to pull out my headphones and listen to it.

And it isn't just news that is better in text with the odd picture. Take videos on how to replace a widget in your car. [...]

I agree with most of what's been said here and in other posts. Video is slow, inconvenient and inappropriate for mobile consumption (What if you haven't got your earphones with you? What if you've got limited data allowance or slow connectivity?). Having said that, showing how to do some complex three-dimensional operation (in my case it was removing the rear wheel of my Brompton) is about the only time I have found a video useful.

The absolutely worst thing is when instructions for doing something on a computer are presented as a video. So instead of saying 'go to File - Options - Settings, go to the network tab and then make sure "allow viruses" is checked' you have to sit through a ponderous movie of somebody doing it. OK, not everyone knows all the terminology, but for anything that's aimed at cluebies a video is terrible. Thinking about it, the prevalence of stupid ribbon interfaces is probably part of the reason. You'd have to say 'stare at the ribbon until you see something that looks a bit like a cog. In version 11 it's more like a bike wheel. Don't confuse it with the one that looks a bit like a frisbee...'. Which in turn is another reason why stupid ribbon interfaces are stupid.
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Re: 1804: "Video Content"

Postby squall_line » Wed Mar 01, 2017 3:10 pm UTC

drazen wrote:Also, whoever decided to put the news into videos, and then, on top of that irritating stupidity, put autoplay ads on them that somehow always seem to bypass your settings to NEVER autoplay video, should be castrated, covered in poisonous radioactive cockroaches, lit on fire, and launched into the sun. I'm looking at you, CNN.


It's been my experience that local news stations are bigger violators of this than almost anyone else. To wit, one of our local stations has auto-play videos with auto-play ads, with a 5-10 second countdown to prevent auto-play. The counter starts upon page load, but is not clickable until the entire page is rendered, all but neutering the "don't play" button. When I sent an e-mail asking why they auto-play the story with the transcript below it, I was told, "that's what almost everyone wants." I spent about a week loading almost every page on their website on a fast computer just so that I could click the "don't play" button and alter their usage stats.

Almost as bad as local newspapers with paywalls that "allow" a small number of "free" articles, most of which are sourced directly from the AP.

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Re: 1804: "Video Content"

Postby Keyman » Wed Mar 01, 2017 3:44 pm UTC

squall_line wrote:
drazen wrote:Also, whoever decided to put the news into videos, and then, on top of that irritating stupidity, put autoplay ads on them that somehow always seem to bypass your settings to NEVER autoplay video, should be castrated, covered in poisonous radioactive cockroaches, lit on fire, and launched into the sun. I'm looking at you, CNN.


It's been my experience that local news stations are bigger violators of this than almost anyone else. To wit, one of our local stations has auto-play videos with auto-play ads, with a 5-10 second countdown to prevent auto-play. The counter starts upon page load, but is not clickable until the entire page is rendered, all but neutering the "don't play" button. When I sent an e-mail asking why they auto-play the story with the transcript below it, I was told, "that's what almost everyone wants." I spent about a week loading almost every page on their website on a fast computer just so that I could click the "don't play" button and alter their usage stats.

Almost as bad as local newspapers with paywalls that "allow" a small number of "free" articles, most of which are sourced directly from the AP.

I'm sure you know this but "incognito window" is a nice tool for getting around that.

And, since timing is everything, this is video news related, and it's especially "looking at you CNN", I received this snippet in my Grammarbook.com newsletter:
Breaking news is broken
Remember when a standing ovation meant something? Now performers get them for just showing up. There’s a misguided tendency nowadays to overdo things whose power is in their scarcity.

So it is that virtually every day, especially on the cable news networks, an urgent-looking message flashes across the TV screen: “Breaking News.” There was a time when you rarely saw “Breaking News,” and when you did, you knew something dire had happened: war, the death of a world figure, a devastating natural disaster, an international act of terrorism. Now, the phrase’s force has been eroded by the media’s crying wolf. I remember when CNN flashed “Breaking News” to inform us that a recently deceased pop star’s autopsy results were due in four to six weeks.

Those who have been around awhile still react to “Breaking News” with visceral dread. To a young person, I’m afraid, it’s just another cheap attention-getting device. That’s a shame, because there ought to be some such terse graphic to alert viewers when something major is afoot. “Breaking News,” once the perfect option, has been ruined.
There's also lots of Quotation marks with punctuation inside, two colons, and a whole lot of 'get off my lawn'-ish attitude. :wink:
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Re: 1804: "Video Content"

Postby Quizatzhaderac » Thu Mar 02, 2017 4:48 pm UTC

orthogon wrote:The absolutely worst thing is when instructions for doing something on a computer are presented as a video.
I'm probably remembering the details wrong, but a coworker once advised me to lookup how to do <simple dot net thing> on <Microsoft site>. I came back and said I wasn't able to find any tutorials on <site that should have been focused on that>. It turns out my problem was that I automatically disregarded anything with video.
HES wrote:Didn't youtube have "video responses" back in the day?
I'm thinking that Balthasar_s means comments in video form.

I assume they'll be auto-playing and will surround the original video, like the Brady Bunch opening.
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Re: 1804: "Video Content"

Postby Eternal Density » Fri Mar 03, 2017 9:23 am UTC

I dislike it when news articles have videos at the top, and detest them if they autoplay.

And if I want instructions on how to do a computery thing, I don't want it in video form. Something I can paste into the terminal would be preferable :P
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Re: 1804: "Video Content"

Postby Copper Bezel » Fri Mar 03, 2017 2:59 pm UTC

Quizatzhaderac wrote:
orthogon wrote:The absolutely worst thing is when instructions for doing something on a computer are presented as a video.
I'm probably remembering the details wrong, but a coworker once advised me to lookup how to do <simple dot net thing> on <Microsoft site>. I cam back and said I wasn't able to find any tutorials on <site that should have been focused on that>. It turns out my problem was that I automatically disregarded anything with video.

Counterpoint: for an extensive tutorial in certain kinds of software, like 3D modeling or image editing applications, video can be much more useful and effectively information-dense, partly because you see the user do things offhand that it wouldn't make sense to include in text.
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Re: 1804: "Video Content"

Postby Quizatzhaderac » Fri Mar 03, 2017 4:43 pm UTC

Sure, there's a place where videos are better. But for many of us something needs to be extremely visual before it becomes better than text. Combine that with that fact that a static page can include judicious use of images, and the needs-to-be-video things are very small.
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Re: 1804: "Video Content"

Postby Mikeski » Fri Mar 03, 2017 6:29 pm UTC

And the comic started with news stories. Short of pre-announced events or precognitive reporters, you can't video the news as it happens.

Of course a tutorial about disassembling antique Swiss watches can be better with video. Talking-head-delivered equivalent-to-the-daily-paper news stories? Not as much...

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Re: 1804: "Video Content"

Postby Copper Bezel » Fri Mar 03, 2017 9:50 pm UTC

Oh, I know. I was just responding to orthogon's comment about "instructions for doing something on a computer". But yes, it is a tiny subset of tasks that are done on computers where video is helpful, as you're both saying, and nothing to do with the news. And to be fair, even orthogon went on to talk about less standard and easy-to-describe interfaces, like MS's ribbons.
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Re: 1804: "Video Content"

Postby Aiwendil » Sat Mar 04, 2017 6:20 pm UTC

A new-ish thing that I hate is when an article has a video at the top, and if you scroll down past it to the text, the video shrinks and moves down to the lower right of the screen. What's worse, I've had it happen that I've loaded a page, clicked "pause" on the video because all I'm interested in is the text, and scrolled down - and the video not only moves down to the lower right, but also unpauses!

It's as if the page is thinking, "Oh, looks like you accidentally scrolled past the video to the words. That can't be right - here, I'll move the video to where you can still see it. Looks like you accidentally stopped the video, too, so I'll just restart it for you. You're welcome!"

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Re: 1804: "Video Content"

Postby GlassHouses » Sat Mar 04, 2017 6:28 pm UTC

Mikeski wrote:Short of pre-announced events or precognitive reporters, you can't video the news as it happens.


Those millions of people who carry video cameras in their pockets, every day, wherever they go, might beg to differ.

I remember when tsunamis were this really mysterious phenomenon, rarely described, never filmed. What were the odds of a camera crew being on the scene when one of those rare events happened? Basically zero... Until December 26, 2004.

See also: https://xkcd.com/1235/

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Re: 1804: "Video Content"

Postby Copper Bezel » Sat Mar 04, 2017 6:33 pm UTC

Aiwendil wrote:A new-ish thing that I hate is when an article has a video at the top, and if you scroll down past it to the text, the video shrinks and moves down to the lower right of the screen. What's worse, I've had it happen that I've loaded a page, clicked "pause" on the video because all I'm interested in is the text, and scrolled down - and the video not only moves down to the lower right, but also unpauses!

It's as if the page is thinking, "Oh, looks like you accidentally scrolled past the video to the words. That can't be right - here, I'll move the video to where you can still see it. Looks like you accidentally stopped the video, too, so I'll just restart it for you. You're welcome!"

I found one recently where something like this happened, but there was also a close button and a move bar on the video player object. The close button was disabled while the ad was playing. I dragged the video off the page. It kept playing, naturally, and there was now nothing I could do to stop it. X |
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Re: 1804: "Video Content"

Postby rmsgrey » Sun Mar 05, 2017 3:46 am UTC

Copper Bezel wrote:
Aiwendil wrote:A new-ish thing that I hate is when an article has a video at the top, and if you scroll down past it to the text, the video shrinks and moves down to the lower right of the screen. What's worse, I've had it happen that I've loaded a page, clicked "pause" on the video because all I'm interested in is the text, and scrolled down - and the video not only moves down to the lower right, but also unpauses!

It's as if the page is thinking, "Oh, looks like you accidentally scrolled past the video to the words. That can't be right - here, I'll move the video to where you can still see it. Looks like you accidentally stopped the video, too, so I'll just restart it for you. You're welcome!"

I found one recently where something like this happened, but there was also a close button and a move bar on the video player object. The close button was disabled while the ad was playing. I dragged the video off the page. It kept playing, naturally, and there was now nothing I could do to stop it. X |


You can always stop the video - if nothing else, by unplugging your computer (or removing the battery if it's a portable device)...

If a site has too-intrusive unwanted media, then I just leave the site.

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Re: 1804: "Video Content"

Postby Copper Bezel » Sun Mar 05, 2017 4:36 am UTC

Very insightful.
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Re: 1804: "Video Content"

Postby orthogon » Mon Mar 06, 2017 5:17 pm UTC

Copper Bezel wrote:Oh, I know. I was just responding to orthogon's comment about "instructions for doing something on a computer". But yes, it is a tiny subset of tasks that are done on computers where video is helpful, as you're both saying, and nothing to do with the news. And to be fair, even orthogon went on to talk about less standard and easy-to-describe interfaces, like MS's ribbons.

I just found a classic example of this here on StackOverflow (the top answer):
Paul Zahra wrote:1) Select installer project

2) In Solution Explorer or Solution Navigator click on the icon at the top of the panel "Launch Conditions Editor" (its the icon with binoculars).
[...]

The icon with binoculars! That should make it easy to find. As if little pictures of binoculars aren't already overloaded for all the different kinds of search you can do, why not use them for the "launch conditions editor" (whatever the hell that is...)? Guys, there's a reason why we stopped trying to come up with little pictures for everything and developed writing systems!
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Re: 1804: "Video Content"

Postby Soupspoon » Mon Mar 06, 2017 11:07 pm UTC

orthogon wrote:Guys, there's a reason why we stopped trying to come up with little pictures for everything and developed writing systems!

:?
:|
:o
:shock:
:oops:

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Re: 1804: "Video Content"

Postby Copper Bezel » Tue Mar 07, 2017 12:23 am UTC

orthogon wrote:The icon with binoculars! That should make it easy to find. As if little pictures of binoculars aren't already overloaded for all the different kinds of search you can do, why not use them for the "launch conditions editor" (whatever the hell that is...)? Guys, there's a reason why we stopped trying to come up with little pictures for everything and developed writing systems!

On the one hand, I want to say that hey, it could have been worse, as overloaded symbols go - it could have been a magnifying glass; but then I also think, a magnifying glass has a generally understood significance, like an arrow or a hamburger icon or a wrench, that may mean and do very different things in different contexts, but usually has a pretty clear meaning given the context.
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Re: 1804: "Video Content"

Postby Pfhorrest » Tue Mar 07, 2017 3:28 am UTC

Copper Bezel wrote:hamburger icon

Maybe it's because I was never a burger guy, but this name for that icon never made much intuitive sense to me and I still have to interpret it every time I see it. Yeah I've figured out why people think it looks burger-like, but that's definitely not the first thing that comes to mind upon seeing it.

It's clearly an abstract representation of a pulldown menu, which :shock: is what it usually does.
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Re: 1804: "Video Content"

Postby Copper Bezel » Tue Mar 07, 2017 4:03 am UTC

It's not a term that makes a lot of sense to me, either, it just seems to be the one in currency. It doesn't in any way resemble a hamburger to me. That'd have the top and bottom rounded, at least. It most resembles, to me, three parallel bars in a squarish shape.

It had honestly never occurred to me that the bars were representing menu items, though. Especially since Google in particular (and probably others) have used it interchangeably with the vertical ellipsis icon for similar situations, and I honestly wasn't sure which came into circulation first. The ellipsis makes intuitive sense to me, at least.

I notice Nautilus (the file manager I'm using) uses a four-bar icon for its "list mode" toggle button. For some reason, this icon is recognizably a "list" to me, but maybe that's simply because it's free of other associations.
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Re: 1804: "Video Content"

Postby Mikeski » Tue Mar 07, 2017 6:07 am UTC

Copper Bezel wrote:I notice Nautilus (the file manager I'm using) uses a four-bar icon for its "list mode" toggle button. For some reason, this icon is recognizably a "list" to me, but maybe that's simply because it's free of other associations.

If you're an old enough geek, the four-bar version should look more like a "burger" than the three-bar one. :mrgreen:

And I can see calling it a "burger"; if you told someone to look for a "menu" icon or a "list" icon, they'd probably look for something that looked like a sheet of paper.

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Re: 1804: "Video Content"

Postby Soupspoon » Tue Mar 07, 2017 8:51 am UTC

Pfhorrest wrote:
Copper Bezel wrote:hamburger icon

Maybe it's because I was never a burger guy, but this name for that icon never made much intuitive sense to me and I still have to interpret it every time I see it. Yeah I've figured out why people think it looks burger-like, but that's definitely not the first thing that comes to mind upon seeing it.

Copper Bezel wrote:It's not a term that makes a lot of sense to me, either, it just seems to be the one in currency. It doesn't in any way resemble a hamburger to me.

And, sometimes, it looks even less like it than that.
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Pfhorrest wrote:It's clearly an abstract representation of a pulldown menu, which :shock: is what it usually does.

Took ages for me to associate the = or ≡with "drop down menu", whilst the "vertical ellipsis" (which I can't seem to get accepted as a character, but "…" rotated) as shown above does make me think that. But it might depend on where I'm starting from.

(I mean, how many people realise that the Alt-Minus and Alt-Spacebar keyboard shortcuts were reflected in the Windows window-title end decorations!)

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Re: 1804: "Video Content"

Postby Flumble » Tue Mar 07, 2017 3:51 pm UTC

I like to call it a burger menu condescendingly. :mrgreen: It's a nice icon for the power user who doesn't like clutter in their interface and barely needs to navigate the menu, but other users it's more likely a step back. Notice how classical desktop software and built-in apps in mobile devices don't have burger icons? (except for the browsers and for android, which puts it in unnecessary places like the wi-fi AP list) They don't need to because someone invested time in the interface design.


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