1835: "Random Obsessions"

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1835: "Random Obsessions"

Postby flicky1991 » Wed May 10, 2017 5:08 am UTC

Image

Title text: “I take the view that "open-faced sandwiches" are not sandwiches, but all other physical objects are.

There have been lots of minor memes not matching up to the ones on the graph in that time, though... is the sandwich thing that major? I hardly hear about it any more.
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Re: 1835: "Random Obsessions"

Postby Copper Bezel » Wed May 10, 2017 5:33 am UTC

Just had a thread about it on the other major forum I frequent. I didn't realize it was a thing, but this makes some sense now.

Edit: Correction, not a proper thread, but a couple pages of discussion in the random image dump thread. I basically killed it, and I think it might have gone further otherwise.
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Re: 1835: "Random Obsessions"

Postby rhomboidal » Wed May 10, 2017 5:36 am UTC

I believe zombie sandwiches are all opened-face sandwiches.

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Re: 1835: "Random Obsessions"

Postby Pfhorrest » Wed May 10, 2017 6:10 am UTC

Wait robot monkeys were a thing? I always thought it was fundamentally about zombie pirates vs robot ninjas, or at least zombies vs robots and pirates vs ninjas. Monkeys kinda go with pirates and so seem more likely to be zombies than robots. I can actually think of a zombie monkey from popular media, and no robot monkeys.

(I kinda jokingly wrote a short thing along these longs on another forum ages ago).
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Re: 1835: "Random Obsessions"

Postby Soupspoon » Wed May 10, 2017 6:25 am UTC

With normalised peaks, it's not easy to determine (without re-running the study, appropriately) the peak and profile for Ninja Pirate Zombie Robot.

Bacon peaks (and "Definition of a sandwich starts... how is that normalised?) at the

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Re: 1835: "Random Obsessions"

Postby Soupspoon » Wed May 10, 2017 6:28 am UTC

With normalised peaks, it's not easy to determine (without re-running the study, appropriately) the peak and profile for Ninja Pirate Zombie Robot.

Bacon peaks (and "Definition of a sandwich" starts... how is that normalised?) at the time I'd suspect it would, if it weren't something I'd think not particularly global. (ETA: Erm.. What an odd grammatical construct. Made sense at the time. Still adds up correctly. YKWIM.)

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Re: 1835: "Random Obsessions"

Postby OP Tipping » Wed May 10, 2017 7:19 am UTC

Wait ... bacon is on the way out??
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Re: 1835: "Random Obsessions"

Postby orthogon » Wed May 10, 2017 7:25 am UTC

Soupspoon wrote:With normalised peaks, it's not easy to determine (without re-running the study, appropriately) the peak and profile for Ninja Pirate Zombie Robot.

Bacon peaks (and "Definition of a sandwich" starts... how is that normalised?) at the time I'd suspect it would, if it weren't something I'd think not particularly global. (ETA: Erm.. What an odd grammatical construct. Made sense at the time. Still adds up correctly. YKWIM.)


I thought of Ed Miliband, too. And if we're talking Labour leaders, "Zombies" has to be a Blair reference, no?
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Re: 1835: "Random Obsessions"

Postby BlitzGirl » Wed May 10, 2017 8:27 am UTC

flicky1991 wrote:... is the sandwich thing that major? I hardly hear about it any more.

Probably about as major as pirates vs. ninjas, anyway. Saw this on imgur a couple days ago:
Spoiler:
Image

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Re: 1835: "Random Obsessions"

Postby flicky1991 » Wed May 10, 2017 12:04 pm UTC

BlitzGirl wrote:
flicky1991 wrote:... is the sandwich thing that major? I hardly hear about it any more.

Probably about as major as pirates vs. ninjas, anyway. Saw this on imgur a couple days ago:
Spoiler:
Image

That's pretty good. It makes a lot more sense than most D&D-alignment-parody meme images I've seen.
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Re: 1835: "Random Obsessions"

Postby rhhardin » Wed May 10, 2017 12:34 pm UTC

A large part of knowing what a word means is knowing what the doubtful cases are.

Stanley Cavell has a nice page on "chair" The Claim of Reason.

As for sandwiches, hot dogs don't qualify because you eat them from the end instead of broadside.

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Re: 1835: "Random Obsessions"

Postby gmalivuk » Wed May 10, 2017 12:45 pm UTC

By which reasoning subs are also not sandwiches, so I guess you're a structure purist.

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Re: 1835: "Random Obsessions"

Postby madock345 » Wed May 10, 2017 12:49 pm UTC

rhhardin wrote:A large part of knowing what a word means is knowing what the doubtful cases are.

Stanley Cavell has a nice page on "chair" The Claim of Reason.

As for sandwiches, hot dogs don't qualify because you eat them from the end instead of broadside.



You eat subs broadside? What about PoBoys???
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Re: 1835: "Random Obsessions"

Postby cellocgw » Wed May 10, 2017 1:14 pm UTC

There's a particular obsession which is flat-line at the top of the graph, starting with the dawn of man...
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Re: 1835: "Random Obsessions"

Postby teelo » Wed May 10, 2017 1:24 pm UTC

Should have compared:
ITS OVER NINE THOUSAND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111111111111111111111111111
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Re: 1835: "Random Obsessions"

Postby Shamino » Wed May 10, 2017 1:34 pm UTC

When I saw today's strip, the first thing that came to mind (before reading any of the text) was "he's doing something about biorhythms".

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Re: 1835: "Random Obsessions"

Postby cellocgw » Wed May 10, 2017 1:50 pm UTC

Shamino wrote:When I saw today's strip, the first thing that came to mind (before reading any of the text) was "he's doing something about biorhythms".


I prefer technorhythms :mrgreen:
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Re: 1835: "Random Obsessions"

Postby rmsgrey » Wed May 10, 2017 1:54 pm UTC

I eat the standard triangular sandwich from the acute points inward, not broadside-on. The 2:1 rectangles, I start on a short end, eat around the crusts, and then enjoy the filling-rich center - unless there's a risk of spillage, in which case I start from the same place, but eat towards the opposite side.

I never start with the middle - always attack the boring stuff first so you can enjoy the good stuff to finish...

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Re: 1835: "Random Obsessions"

Postby ephraimephraim » Wed May 10, 2017 2:09 pm UTC

So-called "open-faced sandwiches" are obviously pizza.

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Re: 1835: "Random Obsessions"

Postby Ryan6742 » Wed May 10, 2017 2:10 pm UTC

https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&q=xkcd

Looks like xkcd is reaching the end of its own obsesession.

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Re: 1835: "Random Obsessions"

Postby Flumble » Wed May 10, 2017 2:37 pm UTC

Sandwich is an alien concept to me.
There's "boterham (met <x>)" for sliced bread with some topping/filling, "brood (met <x>)" if it's not specifically sliced bread, and "tosti (<x>)" for the superior toasted sliced bread (with a minimum of too much cheese; see for example croque-monsieur). The distinction between toasted and regular bread is really important, because the boterhammen you can take with you and enjoy any time, whereas you can enjoy a tosti only when it's still warm and and crunchy and it is supposed to taste a less savoury and more fatty than cold, untoasted bread.

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Re: 1835: "Random Obsessions"

Postby Marsh'n » Wed May 10, 2017 3:10 pm UTC

I would have thought there would be a more careful definition of the peak width than "9 or 10 years." Is that measured as full width at half max (FWHM - it doesn't look like it), full width at tenth max (FWTM, quite possibly), six sigma (probably not)?

Just had to chime in since peak width is part of my profession. And arguably part of the obsession of many (although generally discussed more in terms of the total peak integral), but we oughtn't go there... :oops:

ETA:
cellocgw wrote:There's a particular obsession which is flat-line at the top of the graph, starting with the dawn of man...
You know it now as Rule34 :twisted: :oops:

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Re: 1835: "Random Obsessions"

Postby somitomi » Wed May 10, 2017 3:21 pm UTC

flicky1991 wrote:is the sandwich thing that major?

Sandwitch thing? Huh? What?
Shamino wrote:When I saw today's strip, the first thing that came to mind (before reading any of the text) was "he's doing something about biorhythms".

I started wondering why the graph has more than three sine waves...
Marsh'n wrote:I would have thought there would be a more careful definition of the peak width than "9 or 10 years." Is that measured as full width at half max (FWHM - it doesn't look like it), full width at tenth max (FWTM, quite possibly), six sigma (probably not)?

It's not -3dB either...
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Re: 1835: "Random Obsessions"

Postby Pez Dispens3r » Wed May 10, 2017 3:25 pm UTC

I know Judge John Hodgman has spent a lot of energy on this issue.

I was once in the US, though, and ordered a burger at a McDonalds. The person at the counter wanted to clarify my order. "Do you just want the sandwich?" I was paralysed, thinking I'd somehow mis-ordered. "No," I said, "I just want the burger."

"So, just the sandwich," she repeated back to me.

"Yes," I said, surmising that maybe Americans didn't have sandwiches, and anything betwixt two pieces of bread was a burger, or a sandwich, or whatever you chose to call it in that instance.

A sandwich to me is just a substance (or substances) pressed between two slices of bread, but not a substance (or substances) pressed between a bun. If people are flexible on that point, I can well imagine they're flexible enough on the concept of a sandwich. So I can well imagine the topic will become quite popular before it gets dropped.
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Re: 1835: "Random Obsessions"

Postby orthogon » Wed May 10, 2017 3:31 pm UTC

Pez Dispens3r wrote:I was once in the US, though, and ordered a burger at a McDonalds. The person at the counter wanted to clarify my order. "Do you just want the sandwich?" I was paralysed, thinking I'd somehow mis-ordered. "No," I said, "I just want the burger."

"So, just the sandwich," she repeated back to me.

"Yes," I said, surmising that maybe Americans didn't have sandwiches, and anything betwixt two pieces of bread was a burger, or a sandwich, or whatever you chose to call it in that instance.


Perhaps the hamburger is just the patty, and the whole assembly is a hamburger sandwich?
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Re: 1835: "Random Obsessions"

Postby Soupspoon » Wed May 10, 2017 3:42 pm UTC

Is the "burger" the patty-of-meat1-(and-random-assorted-other-stuff-)-inserted-between-horizontally-cut-bap-slicings2, though. Or is it shorthand for just the (flexibly defined, as per footnote) patty itself?

"Just the burger" would sometimes get you only the meat (or 'meat') bit, in my experience.

Ah, ninjaed,

1 Type of meat being negotiable. Or occasionally a vegetarian ersatz.
2 Usually one slicing, leaving top and bottom, but here I'm allowing BigKing/Big-Mac layering of twice-sliced bun and top-of-bap above filling above middle-of-bap above more filling above base-of-bap...

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Re: 1835: "Random Obsessions"

Postby DanD » Wed May 10, 2017 3:58 pm UTC

rhhardin wrote:
As for sandwiches, hot dogs don't qualify because you eat them from the end instead of broadside.


I would suggest that the orientation of the exterior is a better criteria. A hotdog opens vertically. A sub opens horizontally (nominally, and obviously "overstuffed" subs are iffy in this case, but that's fair enough, because the contents of those are typically partially eaten with a fork).

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Re: 1835: "Random Obsessions"

Postby DanD » Wed May 10, 2017 4:03 pm UTC

Pez Dispens3r wrote:A sandwich to me is just a substance (or substances) pressed between two slices of bread, but not a substance (or substances) pressed between a bun.


How do you defined grilled chicken between two halves of a bun, with LTO, etc? I've never heard that called anything but a grilled chicken sandwich. Likewise, take any sandwich filling that you would put between bread, and put it between a bun, and I would still define it as a sandwich. On the other hand, if a hamburger was served on bread, that is still a hamburger. (In my definition, admittedly, hamburger is a subset of sandwich, so this doesn't violate it, but by yours it would appear to).

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Re: 1835: "Random Obsessions"

Postby HES » Wed May 10, 2017 4:05 pm UTC

ephraimephraim wrote:So-called "open-faced sandwiches" are obviously pizza.

Conversely, does this make Calzone a sandwich?
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Re: 1835: "Random Obsessions"

Postby Heimhenge » Wed May 10, 2017 4:29 pm UTC

Pez Dispens3r wrote:I know Judge John Hodgman has spent a lot of energy on this issue.

I was once in the US, though, and ordered a burger at a McDonalds. The person at the counter wanted to clarify my order. "Do you just want the sandwich?" I was paralysed, thinking I'd somehow mis-ordered. "No," I said, "I just want the burger."

"So, just the sandwich," she repeated back to me.

"Yes," I said, surmising that maybe Americans didn't have sandwiches, and anything betwixt two pieces of bread was a burger, or a sandwich, or whatever you chose to call it in that instance.

A sandwich to me is just a substance (or substances) pressed between two slices of bread, but not a substance (or substances) pressed between a bun. If people are flexible on that point, I can well imagine they're flexible enough on the concept of a sandwich. So I can well imagine the topic will become quite popular before it gets dropped.


Stopped at a popular fast-food place with my dog in the car. It was my dog's birthday. Wanted to buy her a hamburger sans bun (didn't want the bun and dog didn't need the carbs). Ordered "a hamburger ... just the burger ... no bun" because I didn't want to waste a perfectly good bun. Kid at the drive-up window said that couldn't be done. Asked to talk to the manager and that sparked a change in attitude. Got the burger only, wrapped in the usual waxed paper, and the dog loved it (the burger -- not the waxed paper). Also got the bun wrapped in another piece of waxed paper "because we don't sell just the patty or bun by itself and have to charge you for the bun anyway." It was obvious they'd simply disassembled a complete hamburger from the residue on the bun. Ended up tossing the bun on the way out.

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Re: 1835: "Random Obsessions"

Postby Quizatzhaderac » Wed May 10, 2017 5:30 pm UTC

orthogon wrote:Perhaps the hamburger is just the patty, and the whole assembly is a hamburger sandwich?
"A hamburger sandwich" is a sandwich in the style of the city of Hamburg (I forget whether it's the German one or one of the American ones, this may be as historically accurate as "french fries").

"A hamburger" is a shortening of the above phrase.

A "hamburger patty" is the patty of ground beef needed to make the above sandwich.

The uncountable noun "hamburger" is the ground beef needed to make the above patty; because apparently people just like saying "hamburger" more than ground beef.
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Re: 1835: "Random Obsessions"

Postby kalira » Wed May 10, 2017 5:56 pm UTC

Soupspoon wrote:...the patty-of-meat1-(and-random-assorted-other-stuff-)-inserted-between-horizontally-cut-bap-slicings2...

2 Usually one slicing, leaving top and bottom, but here I'm allowing BigKing/Big-Mac layering of twice-sliced bun and top-of-bap above filling above middle-of-bap above more filling above base-of-bap...


I... did not realize that people used "bap" in its original definition anymore. I have literally only ever heard it (generally pluralized and) with its slang definition. Needless to say, while my logical brain understood the intended meaning, the creative end of my brain was making up some odd mental pictures.
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Re: 1835: "Random Obsessions"

Postby Keyman » Wed May 10, 2017 6:51 pm UTC

DanD wrote:
rhhardin wrote:
As for sandwiches, hot dogs don't qualify because you eat them from the end instead of broadside.


I would suggest that the orientation of the exterior is a better criteria. A hotdog opens vertically. A sub opens horizontally (nominally, and obviously "overstuffed" subs are iffy in this case, but that's fair enough, because the contents of those are typically partially eaten with a fork).

In the case of the hotdog, I've found locally (Midwest USA) the 'opening' for the 'bun' is horizontal, just as the sub. Whereas when I was living in New England (USA) there was a variety of 'bun' split at the top, which was commonly referred to as a "hotdog roll"...but then they called subs 'hoagies', so....
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Re: 1835: "Random Obsessions"

Postby Soupspoon » Wed May 10, 2017 6:55 pm UTC

kalira wrote:
Soupspoon wrote:...the patty-of-meat1-(and-random-assorted-other-stuff-)-inserted-between-horizontally-cut-bap-slicings2...

2 Usually one slicing, leaving top and bottom, but here I'm allowing BigKing/Big-Mac layering of twice-sliced bun and top-of-bap above filling above middle-of-bap above more filling above base-of-bap...


I... did not realize that people used "bap" in its original definition anymore. I have literally only ever heard it (generally pluralized and) with its slang definition. Needless to say, while my logical brain understood the intended meaning, the creative end of my brain was making up some odd mental pictures.


Understandable. But a "bun" really means to me a sweet thing (often cake mix, but not always (e.g. apple turnovers, or something do[ugh]nut-based), but smaller than a cake, usually with icing, cream and/or sugar/sugar-sprinkles), unless qualified as a "breadbun" (which is more crusty than a bap).

And if you aren't aware of the controversy surrounding the term "teacake" and don't even understand why I bother mentioning it in the context of a burger-bap then I shall not overcomplicate your life by explaining the issue... ;)

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Re: 1835: "Random Obsessions"

Postby AndrewGPaul » Wed May 10, 2017 7:02 pm UTC

Quizatzhaderac wrote:ground beef ... ground beef ... ground beef.


Mince :)

To me, the bread product hamburgers usually come inside* is a roll. A sandwich, IMO, is contained between two separate slices from a larger loaf.

Then, of course, you get into the confusion between a "roll and sausage"* and a "sausage roll" (the former being one or two bangers or a slice of lorne in a roll, and the latter being ... the same thing, depending on where you're from, and also a skinless sausage encased in pastry. Except for the one I had in Japan, which had a frankfurter in pastry. Good, but a bit of a shock).

*"roll and ..." being a Glaswegian construction for "... in a roll".

Where on the "alignment chart" would the roll and pie come?

Image

That's a pie (containing minced spiced mutton in a pastry crust), with brown sauce, in a roll. A layer of baked beans on top of the pie is optional, but recommended.
Last edited by AndrewGPaul on Wed May 10, 2017 7:10 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 1835: "Random Obsessions"

Postby qvxb » Wed May 10, 2017 7:10 pm UTC


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Re: 1835: "Random Obsessions"

Postby cellocgw » Wed May 10, 2017 7:21 pm UTC

Keyman wrote: Whereas when I was living in New England (USA) there was a variety of 'bun' split at the top, which was commonly referred to as a "hotdog roll"...but then they called subs 'hoagies', so....


To the best of my knowledge, here's the etymology of 'hoagies.'

First, the Greek [maybe a sandwich, maybe not] "gyro." Since it's pronounced vaguely like the English "hero," an Americanized version of the gyro became a "hero" [maybe sandwich]. It was a small step from there to reference a popular '60s comedy, Hogan's Heroes.
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Re: 1835: "Random Obsessions"

Postby DavidSh » Wed May 10, 2017 8:03 pm UTC

Cute story but the 1955 Philadelphia phone book is reported as using the term "hoagie" or "hoagy" for the sandwich multiple times in ads, over ten years before the TV show. See http://www.ling.upenn.edu/~wlabov/Papers/PCM.html

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Re: 1835: "Random Obsessions"

Postby 80-watt Hamster » Wed May 10, 2017 9:05 pm UTC

This is a widespread argument/meme? Weird. But now that the subject has been raised, I can't seem to help contributing my take.

It seems like anything largely resembling the apocryphal "original" sandwich should qualify. Is it contained by bread (or other raised dough product) and able to be eaten easily with one's hands? If both yes, then sandwich. Although this definition puts a strain on the nomenclature of an ice cream sandwich (common U.S. variety, anyway).
Last edited by 80-watt Hamster on Wed May 10, 2017 9:06 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 1835: "Random Obsessions"

Postby xtifr » Wed May 10, 2017 9:06 pm UTC

I think Randall is greatly overestimating the legs on this one. My guess is that it's more likely to last about as long as "what color is this dress?"
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