1841: "Who?"

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1841: "Who?"

Postby Reka » Wed May 24, 2017 2:08 pm UTC

Image
Title text: "Gonna feel even dumber when I realize that all this time he's been talking into a bluetooth thingy and we're not actually friends."

So, Cueball is me... and Hairy is my mom. Awkward.

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Re: 1841: "Who?"

Postby somitomi » Wed May 24, 2017 2:42 pm UTC

I'm not sure if this is closer to the conversation I sometimes have with classmates, or the one we usually have before family reunions.
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Re: 1841: "Who?"

Postby HES » Wed May 24, 2017 2:51 pm UTC

My mother, talking about extended family. Not helped by the fact that three of them are named after each other.
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Re: 1841: "Who?"

Postby cellocgw » Wed May 24, 2017 2:55 pm UTC

I vote "banal" on this one. Been done in various ways too often . DIdn't Randall do one last year where two folks at a party both made shit up about Star Wars, but because neither had a clue about the movies, they both felt relieved at "fitting in" ?
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Re: 1841: "Who?"

Postby Soupspoon » Wed May 24, 2017 3:01 pm UTC

cellocgw wrote:I vote "banal" on this one. Been done in various ways too often . DIdn't Randall do one last year where two folks at a party both made shit up about Star Wars, but because neither had a clue about the movies, they both felt relieved at "fitting in" ?

Wasn't Banal the uncredited character name of the third guard on the left in the scene on Jabba's hover-skiff?

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Re: 1841: "Who?"

Postby qvxb » Wed May 24, 2017 3:02 pm UTC

Don's gonna see if he can get me a summer job with the FBI.

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Re: 1841: "Who?"

Postby Minstrel » Wed May 24, 2017 3:06 pm UTC

Every Single Day at my job.

Plus they expect you'll remember not just the people but the details of all the past stories, and why Ruth doesn't get along with Al after that thing at Mae's funeral.

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Re: 1841: "Who?"

Postby Copper Bezel » Wed May 24, 2017 3:42 pm UTC

Initially read that as "AI", made it better.

cellocgw wrote:I vote "banal" on this one. Been done in various ways too often . DIdn't Randall do one last year where two folks at a party both made shit up about Star Wars, but because neither had a clue about the movies, they both felt relieved at "fitting in" ?

But the way that dab of mayonnaise accents the arc of his outstretched thumb and forefinger really just brings focus to the entire composition. I really think this one justifies itself as a sort of remix or homage by everything new it brings to the table.
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Re: 1841: "Who?"

Postby rmsgrey » Wed May 24, 2017 4:38 pm UTC

Soupspoon wrote:
cellocgw wrote:I vote "banal" on this one. Been done in various ways too often . DIdn't Randall do one last year where two folks at a party both made shit up about Star Wars, but because neither had a clue about the movies, they both felt relieved at "fitting in" ?

Wasn't Banal the uncredited character name of the third guard on the left in the scene on Jabba's hover-skiff?

Wasn't he third from the right? Or has one of us been watching it flopped?

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Re: 1841: "Who?"

Postby orthogon » Wed May 24, 2017 4:44 pm UTC

This could be, as cellocgw seems to be interpreting it, that Cueball is supposed to know all these people but just can't keep track of them, which is a possible failing on Cue's part.

On the other hand, it could be about a phenomenon I've noticed where some people talk about their friends or members of their family whom the listener almost certainly hasn't met, referring to those people as though the listener was in fact acquainted with them. The conventional way one talks about mutual acquaintances is different to the way one refers to people who the listener doesn't know; it's quite a subtle linguistic distinction, but I'm thinking that in the latter case, bare proper names are qualified with extra information: "my friend Anna" or "my brother John", at least on first mention (within a conversation, not just the first time ever). There's perhaps also an intermediate category for people who might be known to the listener but are much more closely associated with the speaker.

Perhaps inaccurately, I associate this way of talking with people who are "on the spectrum", which could tie in with the "theory of mind" effect where the speaker doesn't fully grasp that the listener doesn't know the same things (or, in this case, the same people) as they do.

I found it particularly uncomfortable once, when the person doing it was a guy who refers to (and presumably addresses) his own parents by their first names. "Dave did this" "Who's Dave?" "My dad".
xtifr wrote:... and orthogon merely sounds undecided.

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Re: 1841: "Who?"

Postby Soupspoon » Wed May 24, 2017 5:12 pm UTC

rmsgrey wrote:
Soupspoon wrote:
cellocgw wrote:I vote "banal" on this one. Been done in various ways too often . DIdn't Randall do one last year where two folks at a party both made shit up about Star Wars, but because neither had a clue about the movies, they both felt relieved at "fitting in" ?

Wasn't Banal the uncredited character name of the third guard on the left in the scene on Jabba's hover-skiff?

Wasn't he third from the right? Or has one of us been watching it flopped?

Our left/right or his right/left?

I mean, can we even agree which is the left nipple? :P

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Re: 1841: "Who?"

Postby The Moo Prophet » Wed May 24, 2017 5:38 pm UTC

Soupspoon wrote:
rmsgrey wrote:
Soupspoon wrote:
cellocgw wrote:I vote "banal" on this one. Been done in various ways too often . DIdn't Randall do one last year where two folks at a party both made shit up about Star Wars, but because neither had a clue about the movies, they both felt relieved at "fitting in" ?

Wasn't Banal the uncredited character name of the third guard on the left in the scene on Jabba's hover-skiff?

Wasn't he third from the right? Or has one of us been watching it flopped?

Our left/right or his right/left?

I mean, can we even agree which is the left nipple? :P


That's why I refer to my nippers as Driver side and passenger side (and leave out my country of reference.)

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Re: 1841: "Who?"

Postby SuicideJunkie » Wed May 24, 2017 6:02 pm UTC

orthogon wrote:I found it particularly uncomfortable once, when the person doing it was a guy who refers to (and presumably addresses) his own parents by their first names. "Dave did this" "Who's Dave?" "My dad".

I have to negotiate that kind of minefield at work since all three of us are in the same office, and Mom/Dad just doesn't sound professional.
What I settle on each time depends on how official the context is, such as cafeteria vs hardware lab, or weekend hijinks vs technical story, and who is listening.

If that was me, sorry.

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Re: 1841: "Who?"

Postby suso » Wed May 24, 2017 6:31 pm UTC

For reference, the keystone beer commercial regarding bluetooth headsets:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Khn1d6LQ8PU
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Re: 1841: "Who?"

Postby orthogon » Wed May 24, 2017 6:48 pm UTC

SuicideJunkie wrote:
orthogon wrote:I found it particularly uncomfortable once, when the person doing it was a guy who refers to (and presumably addresses) his own parents by their first names. "Dave did this" "Who's Dave?" "My dad".

I have to negotiate that kind of minefield at work since all three of us are in the same office, and Mom/Dad just doesn't sound professional.
What I settle on each time depends on how official the context is, such as cafeteria vs hardware lab, or weekend hijinks vs technical story, and who is listening.

If that was me, sorry.

Oh right, no, I'm sorry: that's a special case I'd never considered. (This is the second time this week - first time was the identical twin uncle/aunt). The guy I'm taking about didn't work at the same place as his dad or anything.
xtifr wrote:... and orthogon merely sounds undecided.

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Re: 1841: "Who?"

Postby svenman » Wed May 24, 2017 9:10 pm UTC

orthogon wrote:On the other hand, it could be about a phenomenon I've noticed where some people talk about their friends or members of their family whom the listener almost certainly hasn't met, referring to those people as though the listener was in fact acquainted with them.

That is an observation I have made as well with some people, at least some of whom I am very certain are not in any way "on the spectrum". It is a habit of conversing which I find mildly annoying, but not enough to raise a fuss about.

orthogon wrote:The conventional way one talks about mutual acquaintances is different to the way one refers to people who the listener doesn't know; it's quite a subtle linguistic distinction, but I'm thinking that in the latter case, bare proper names are qualified with extra information: "my friend Anna" or "my brother John", at least on first mention (within a conversation, not just the first time ever). There's perhaps also an intermediate category for people who might be known to the listener but are much more closely associated with the speaker.

That's a convention under which I, as well as the wide majority of people in my acquaintance, also operate. However, my impression has always been that the kind of people who just drop names left and right simply operate under a different set of assumptions which seems to boil down to:

  • You, the listener, can in general be expected to remember who people that have been talked about are, even if you are not personally acquainted with them and even beyond the timespan of a single conversation;
  • you are free to and reasonably can be expected to actively ask about people whose names are dropped if you require an explanation;
  • if you don't, then apparently you either recall the name from a previous conversation or you understand the story sufficiently without needing an explanation;
  • at any rate the speaker is not, and maybe cannot be expected to, keep track of which listener has already received an explanation who which person that is being spoken about is.
In my dealings with this kind of people, I admit I've rarely asked for explanations because in most cases, I haven't been able to muster sufficient interest. Instead, I've usually just tried to make sense of what was being talked about as well as I could, much like one tries to make sense of a TV show of which one has missed the first half.
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Re: 1841: "Who?"

Postby Pfhorrest » Wed May 24, 2017 10:05 pm UTC

If it's a conversation that doesn't matter, I'm just letting them talk and I don't care what the words coming out of their mouth may mean.

If suddenly it should happen that the conversation does matter, then I can ask questions. If they're offended that I need to, fuck them, maybe this conversation doesn't matter after all. If it matters to me, fuck them extra, give me the goddamn information I need right fucking now and stop throwing a hissy fit over some stupid meaningless social bullshit.
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Re: 1841: "Who?"

Postby niauropsaka » Thu May 25, 2017 6:35 am UTC

orthogon wrote:On the other hand, it could be about a phenomenon I've noticed where some people talk about their friends or members of their family whom the listener almost certainly hasn't met, referring to those people as though the listener was in fact acquainted with them. The conventional way one talks about mutual acquaintances is different to the way one refers to people who the listener doesn't know; it's quite a subtle linguistic distinction, but I'm thinking that in the latter case, bare proper names are qualified with extra information: "my friend Anna" or "my brother John", at least on first mention (within a conversation, not just the first time ever). There's perhaps also an intermediate category for people who might be known to the listener but are much more closely associated with the speaker.


In my experience, it can be more embarrassing to do it the other way, where you refer to someone the listener does know as if they didn't.

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Re: 1841: "Who?"

Postby orthogon » Thu May 25, 2017 8:33 am UTC

niauropsaka wrote:In my experience, it can be more embarrassing to do it the other way, where you refer to someone the listener does know as if they didn't.

Interesting. I feel that the listener is more likely to interject in this situation: "yeah, I know Dave!" or "Dave the drummer you mean?", but that would normally be a pleasant experience, a sharing of a mutual acquaintance. I wouldn't find it embarrassing except in a really extreme case ("you mean Dave, my ex-partner?") Maybe my social circuits are miscalibrated. My AQ is in the tricky buffer zone between "normal" and "autistic", after all.
xtifr wrote:... and orthogon merely sounds undecided.

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Re: 1841: "Who?"

Postby HES » Thu May 25, 2017 8:54 am UTC

Or worse: "I'm Dave"
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Re: 1841: "Who?"

Postby Plasma Mongoose » Thu May 25, 2017 10:27 am UTC

Story of my life, I just nod and pretend I know who these people are that they keep talking about, worse still I often have trouble identifying people I know in one setting(eg work) but bump into in another setting.
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Re: 1841: "Who?"

Postby orthogon » Thu May 25, 2017 12:01 pm UTC

Plasma Mongoose wrote:Story of my life, I just nod and pretend I know who these people are that they keep talking about, worse still I often have trouble identifying people I know in one setting(eg work) but bump into in another setting.

I think that's quite common when you meet someone out of context.

I meet a friend for drinks most Thursdays. A couple of weeks back a woman came into the pub who I totally recognised but couldn't place. A colleague? Friend of my wife's? In the end I had to go and ask her. Fortunately I didn't need to ask, as I was suddenly able to work it out from her initial response to my approach. She and her friend had been in the very same pub the previous week and we'd got talking. It was ridiculous. I didn't even have the "out of context" excuse: she was 100% in context.
xtifr wrote:... and orthogon merely sounds undecided.

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Re: 1841: "Who?"

Postby gmalivuk » Thu May 25, 2017 12:27 pm UTC

Pfhorrest wrote:If it's a conversation that doesn't matter, I'm just letting them talk and I don't care what the words coming out of their mouth may mean.

If suddenly it should happen that the conversation does matter, then I can ask questions. If they're offended that I need to, fuck them, maybe this conversation doesn't matter after all. If it matters to me, fuck them extra, give me the goddamn information I need right fucking now and stop throwing a hissy fit over some stupid meaningless social bullshit.

A secondary benefit of this approach is that it cuts way down on the number of people who want to talk to you in the first place.
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Re: 1841: "Who?"

Postby cryptoengineer » Thu May 25, 2017 3:41 pm UTC

Yet another "This Is Me. Every Goddam Day." entry.

Its called 'Anomia', the inability to remember the names of things.

For me, it especially applies to people's names. I can remember a person's appearance, and their role,
but hooking it up with a name requires a hell of a lot of repetition. It's quite socially debilitating.

It's as if, when someone name is spoken, there's a little burst of static blanking it out.

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Re: 1841: "Who?"

Postby Old Bruce » Thu May 25, 2017 3:53 pm UTC

Returning home after work one day my sister was looking out the window at the pedestrians and had an "I know him" moment of recognition. She turned to continue watching the fellow when her memory kicked out the fact that this was a good friend from childhood. She involuntarily loudly exclaimed to all and sundry on the bus "That's Gord Kennedy!"
Naturally all those on her side of the bus immediately began scanning the crowded sidewalk for a glimpse of Gord Kennedy before asking themselves "Just who the hell is Gord Kennedy, and why do I care about seeing him?"

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Re: 1841: "Who?"

Postby Pfhorrest » Thu May 25, 2017 5:00 pm UTC

gmalivuk wrote:
Pfhorrest wrote:If it's a conversation that doesn't matter, I'm just letting them talk and I don't care what the words coming out of their mouth may mean.

If suddenly it should happen that the conversation does matter, then I can ask questions. If they're offended that I need to, fuck them, maybe this conversation doesn't matter after all. If it matters to me, fuck them extra, give me the goddamn information I need right fucking now and stop throwing a hissy fit over some stupid meaningless social bullshit.

A secondary benefit of this approach is that it cuts way down on the number of people who want to talk to you in the first place.

If they're the kind of person who talks like that (nattering nonstop about things I don't need to care about and then being offended at me asking questions about details I missed when it turns out I might need to care and want to catch up) then good. I don't need that kind of person in my life. Learn some fucking theory of mind, don't assume everyone cares about and perfectly remembers every fucking detail of your self-centered little existence.
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Re: 1841: "Who?"

Postby orthogon » Thu May 25, 2017 6:00 pm UTC

cryptoengineer wrote:It's as if, when someone name is spoken, there's a little burst of static blanking it out

That's how it feels, but there's probably something else going on. After the fact, you don't have conscious access to the audio; nor, apparently, do you have access to the stream of phonemes. After a couple of seconds, all that remains is the gist of what you heard. You feel like you can play back the utterance, but you must be recreating it based on the meaning. The name has no gistiness in this sense; it's non-semantic. People who are​ "good with names" must somehow attach arbitrary semantics to the names they hear. (People who use memory techniques definitely do this, but there seem to be people who are naturally good at it). A related thing I notice is that I can (on a good day) understand somebody saying something in French, but can't remember whether they used tu or vous (T- or V-pronouns). That layer (pragmatics?) was discarded or never consciously registered. Presumably native speakers notice the register used and respond automatically, but I wonder whether there​ are some who have the same problem as me, and whether it correlates with the name thing.

ETA: on reflection, I do extract a tiny bit of gist from a name, but it's something like "generic English name" (Dave, Pete, Mike...) or "Indian name" (Sanjeev, Nadim, Satnam...). Not enough to be useful rather than offensive (or, at best, baffling).
xtifr wrote:... and orthogon merely sounds undecided.

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Re: 1841: "Who?"

Postby SuicideJunkie » Thu May 25, 2017 6:50 pm UTC

On a related note, coop terms seem to be precisely calibrated to end just as I start to lock in a name association.
Double-term and returning coops are quite nice.

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Re: 1841: "Who?"

Postby jewish_scientist » Thu May 25, 2017 7:08 pm UTC

"Gonna feel even dumber when I realize that all this time he's been talking into a bluetooth thingy and we're not actually friends."

Better than realizing that those people are your close friends that you introduced him to.

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Re: 1841: "Who?"

Postby heuristically_alone » Sat May 27, 2017 3:07 pm UTC

Sounds a lot like my ex's conversarions. Expects me to remember the name of everyone she has met when I can barely even remember her name.
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