1877: "Eclipse Science"

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Keyman
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1877: "Eclipse Science"

Postby Keyman » Wed Aug 16, 2017 1:27 pm UTC

Image
Title Text: I was thinking of observing stars to verify Einstein's theory of relativity again, but I gotta say, that thing is looking pretty solid at this point.

I'd imagine all the scientists on all the local news shows would just love to be able to talk this way to the bubbleheads interviewing them.

And "...a thing going in front of another thing." Anybody else find yourself having to spend time explaining why that doesn't happen all the time?
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Soupspoon
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Re: 1877: "Eclipse Science"

Postby Soupspoon » Wed Aug 16, 2017 3:24 pm UTC

But what if, this time, Einstein isn't proved correct, but nobody was looking?!? Gotta keep checking, or we'll not discover that we were fooled by a temporary trick of the light!

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Heimhenge
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Re: 1877: "Eclipse Science"

Postby Heimhenge » Wed Aug 16, 2017 3:41 pm UTC

I once (and only once) agreed to be interviewed by a local news person on the topic of light pollution. Arizona is home to a large number of observatories so it's a relatively hot topic here. The interview questions were as dumb and uninformed as those in this comic, and I wish I'd had the balls to respond like Megan. I tried to steer the questions in a more relevant direction but the guy was obviously on a script. Some examples:

1. Isn't it safer to leave your outside yard lights on all night? (Many cops still recommend this.)
2. Most observatories are a long distance from cities, so what's the problem?
3. If I'm paying for the electricity why shouldn't I be able to use it any way I want?

What finally ran on the news was a brief spot, about a minute long, distilled from close to 45 minutes of interview. Nothing of import was conveyed. All they ran was a picture of me with my scope. What they chose to include was my comment about disagreeing with law enforcement's recommendations. I guess they were looking for something controversial and that's the closest they could get. Lesson learned. Never again will I waste my time with a local news interview.

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Re: 1877: "Eclipse Science"

Postby Jorpho » Wed Aug 16, 2017 3:44 pm UTC

NDT tweeted, "Odd. No one is in denial of America’s Aug 21 total solar eclipse. Like Climate Change, methods & tools of science predict it."

Odd indeed. There surely must be some eclipse skeptics out there.

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Re: 1877: "Eclipse Science"

Postby JPatten » Wed Aug 16, 2017 3:48 pm UTC

Jorpho wrote:NDT tweeted, "Odd. No one is in denial of America’s Aug 21 total solar eclipse. Like Climate Change, methods & tools of science predict it."

Odd indeed. There surely must be some eclipse skeptics out there.


Head over to the Flat Earth Folks. They will at the least deny the eclipse is caused by the moon. Though I am not certain what the mechanism is currently. I think it is some form of "recharging the sun / moon battery system." that is also responsible for phases of the moon.

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Re: 1877: "Eclipse Science"

Postby Cygnwulf » Wed Aug 16, 2017 3:57 pm UTC

Jorpho wrote:NDT tweeted, "Odd. No one is in denial of America’s Aug 21 total solar eclipse. Like Climate Change, methods & tools of science predict it."

Odd indeed. There surely must be some eclipse skeptics out there.


They must be less vocal because they know they would be proven wrong much sooner.

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Re: 1877: "Eclipse Science"

Postby cellocgw » Wed Aug 16, 2017 4:05 pm UTC

Cygnwulf wrote:
Jorpho wrote:NDT tweeted, "Odd. No one is in denial of America’s Aug 21 total solar eclipse. Like Climate Change, methods & tools of science predict it."

Odd indeed. There surely must be some eclipse skeptics out there.


They must be less vocal because they know they would be proven wrong much sooner.


Doubtful - that's never stopped the "Judgement Day and the End of Times will be on XXX date" crowd. When said date rolls around, they just calculate a new date.
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Re: 1877: "Eclipse Science"

Postby Soupspoon » Wed Aug 16, 2017 4:30 pm UTC

Jorpho wrote:NDT tweeted, "Odd. No one is in denial of America’s Aug 21 total solar eclipse. Like Climate Change, methods & tools of science predict it."
That twitter thread depressed me. Who knew there were so many people living under rocks, waiting to totally miss the point.

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Re: 1877: "Eclipse Science"

Postby cryptoengineer » Wed Aug 16, 2017 5:40 pm UTC

Strongly recommended:
Annie Dillard's Classic Essay: 'Total Eclipse'
https://www.theatlantic.com/science/arc ... se/536148/
It's all about the wonder and emotional impact.

I'm going to see it, on a cruise liner. I expect about a 50:50 chance of clear skies.

Aside from a couple selfies of my wife and I with the eclipse in the background (which may or may not come out), I'm not going
to photograph the sun. There are a ton of people who can do that better than I.

What I will do is attempt to video the shadow rushing up the ship, then turn around and record the other passenger's reactions.
Then I'll turn off the camera, and just experience the moment.

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Re: 1877: "Eclipse Science"

Postby gd1 » Thu Aug 17, 2017 4:00 am UTC

Soupspoon wrote:But what if, this time, Einstein isn't proved correct, but nobody was looking?!? Gotta keep checking, or we'll not discover that we were fooled by a temporary trick of the light!


It would have to happen at least two more times or else it's a fluke, and at least 29 more times to get a reasonable sample size.

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Re: 1877: "Eclipse Science"

Postby serutan » Thu Aug 17, 2017 4:06 am UTC

Soupspoon wrote:But what if, this time, Einstein isn't proved correct, but nobody was looking?!? Gotta keep checking, or we'll not discover that we were fooled by a temporary trick of the light!


Tricks of the light are indeed insidious. They can also make it hard to tell if a shadow of emotion crossed someone's face.
For a sentient herbivore, discretion is the only part of valor. - Larry Niven

thermopile
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Re: 1877: "Eclipse Science"

Postby thermopile » Fri Aug 18, 2017 1:42 pm UTC

cryptoengineer wrote:
Aside from a couple selfies of my wife and I with the eclipse in the background (which may or may not come out), I'm not going
to photograph the sun. There are a ton of people who can do that better than I.

What I will do is attempt to video the shadow rushing up the ship, then turn around and record the other passenger's reactions.
Then I'll turn off the camera, and just experience the moment.


I have a lot of respect for those people who can say, "Eh, I know others will photograph it better than I can, so I'm not going to try." It's a very rational, logical argument.

... and yet ... I have to try. I've got 2 video cameras and one still camera all set up to try to record the moment. It also helps that 93 seconds of totality is literally in my back yard.

pernishus
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Re: 1877: "Eclipse Science"

Postby pernishus » Fri Aug 18, 2017 1:43 pm UTC

I heard almost this exact style of interview on NPR yesterday (minus the snarky replies of course). Randall nailed it!

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Keyman
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Re: 1877: "Eclipse Science"

Postby Keyman » Fri Aug 18, 2017 3:25 pm UTC

Keyman wrote:And "...a thing going in front of another thing." Anybody else find yourself having to spend time explaining why that doesn't happen all the time?

Whew! https://xkcd.com/1878/ Asked and answered!
And it's science-y enough to get the desired response... "O-o-o-ohhh, Now I get it!"
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standingwave
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Re: 1877: "Eclipse Science"

Postby standingwave » Fri Aug 18, 2017 8:17 pm UTC

thermopile wrote:I have a lot of respect for those people who can say, "Eh, I know others will photograph it better than I can, so I'm not going to try." It's a very rational, logical argument.

... and yet ... I have to try. I've got 2 video cameras and one still camera all set up to try to record the moment. It also helps that 93 seconds of totality is literally in my back yard.


I'm going to Oregon with a couple of professional astrophotographers so this is obviously a big thing for them. I will be in charge of one of the film cameras but all I have to do is open/close the shutter during totality. The pros will be going after Baily's Beads, the diamond ring, and the corona. We will have a video camera set up to capture shadow snakes if any (see video) and then the horizon effect during totality and another just set up to capture about six minutes of the main event using the drift method (see video) which seems like a set and forget it type of setup. And I will probably snap a shot of totality with my phone just because. But I'm hoping the pros come through with something I can hang on the wall.

https://youtu.be/qc7MfcKF1-s


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Re: 1877: "Eclipse Science"

Postby morriswalters » Mon Aug 21, 2017 9:56 am UTC

Jorpho wrote:NDT tweeted, "Odd. No one is in denial of America’s Aug 21 total solar eclipse. Like Climate Change, methods & tools of science predict it."

Odd indeed. There surely must be some eclipse skeptics out there.
No one's in denial of elevators, central heating, or airplanes either. They are observable, repeatable events. I have seen one partial personally. However dumb climate denier's are, I'm pretty sure they don't walk in front of cars, try to catch bullets with their teeth, or leap tall buildings in a single bound. Category error.

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Re: 1877: "Eclipse Science"

Postby Sableagle » Mon Aug 21, 2017 3:52 pm UTC

morriswalters wrote:
Jorpho wrote:NDT tweeted, "Odd. No one is in denial of America’s Aug 21 total solar eclipse. Like Climate Change, methods & tools of science predict it."

Odd indeed. There surely must be some eclipse skeptics out there.
No one's in denial of elevators, central heating, or airplanes either. They are observable, repeatable events. I have seen one partial personally. However dumb climate denier's are, I'm pretty sure they don't walk in front of cars, try to catch bullets with their teeth, or leap tall buildings in a single bound. Category error.


I was thinking about that today for some reason. I don't know how the train of thought got started, but I got round to trying, in my head, to use cars as an analogy for climate change: if someone demonstrated an internal combustion engine cylinder's ignition stroke and the cam rod and the cam belt and the exhaust valve and the intake valve and the fuel pump and the spark plug and the dynamo and the flywheel and the clutch and the gearbox and wheel alignment and wheel balancing and universal joints and differentials and shock absorbers and rack-and-pinion steering and the butterfly valve and batteries and electric motors and fuel vapourisation and hydraulics and disc brakes and everyone saw and agreed that they all worked and we all watched a Model T and a Silver Ghost and an original Beetle and 2CV and a Testarossa doing their thing and one guy piped up that "There's no way that'd work. You can't tell me that a little bit of flame is going to mave like a tonne of metal," and another guy said that Genesis tells us to have mastery over the beasts of the Earth, so we're supposed to ride horses and God won't let cars work, the news from Charlottesville wouldn't have to include people presenting "the alternative viewpoint" that that nut can't possibly have killed that woman with a car because cars don't work. Somehow, though, people whose sole job is to lie to us on behalf of oil companies are allowed to demand air time in which to tell us that "the science isn't settled," as if "We don't know where in the 290-to-380-cm range the actual amount of sea-level rise this century caused by human activity is going to fall" is the same thing as "We don't know what we're talking about."
Oh, Willie McBride, it was all done in vain.

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Re: 1877: "Eclipse Science"

Postby morriswalters » Mon Aug 21, 2017 4:47 pm UTC

I think so. I'll restate it another way, to make the point. I told some people of some observations about something, and suggested because I spoke Chinese and they spoke English, they couldn't understand me. What I should have realized, was that to make my point, if it exists, I had to understand, that to talk to them, I had to find a language we both spoke. I was tardy to that conclusion.


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