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Re: 1980: "Turkish Delight"

Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 12:43 pm UTC
by Feylias
You were born in the wrong era and the wrong place.

See, even discarding the fact that magic was involved, it's not so much a matter of taste (though of course it is) as a matter of time and science.

Turkish Delight keeps well at room temperature, travels well, and is more-densely-than-most-things caloric.

Scarcity of sweets that keep:
You can't just go buy a bag of M&Ms or Skittles because they don't farking exist. You can't get a cinnamon bun or some ice cream unless someone made some today or yesterday because the science of preservation isn't as advanced. This is an era where treacle pudding was considered a treat. Turkish Delight compares well to many options of the time.

Hunger is the best spice:
Even though these smarmy brats were from a richer-than-usual family, they got hungry before nearly every meal, to a degree that most of us don't get more than once or twice a month. Any food that tastes pleasant will have a bonus just because the kid is more accustomed to being hungry.

http://www.cooksinfo.com/british-wartime-food

I think of this as the "Why fruitcake used to be cool but now gets constantly dissed" solution.

Re: 1980: "Turkish Delight"

Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 3:57 pm UTC
by rmsgrey
Feylias wrote:I think of this as the "Why fruitcake used to be cool but now gets constantly dissed" solution.


a) Fruit cake is highly variable. Good fruit cake is still great, but my tolerance for bad fruit cake has dwindled over the years.

b) Kendal Mint Cake has existed since the mid 1800s, and is superior to Turkish Delight in pretty much every way (unless you don't like peppermint or sugar...)

Re: 1980: "Turkish Delight"

Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 4:20 pm UTC
by Soupspoon
Kendal Mint Cake is the worst survival food, for me. Emergency rations should be something you wouldn't eat until actually necessary, and I can't keep a bar of the stuff unnibbled for any decent length of time, or unconsumed between expeditions. My emergency ration bars tend to be something with peanuts. I'm not allergic to them, obviously but I really don't like the taste.

If the White Witch conjured me up a Marathon Snickers bar, it'd have to be magically addictive to ensnare me. Not sure why she would, but when you have magic fizzing around I'm betting that even if the magic food-from-a-bottle stuff was inexplicably stuck on peanut brittle or the like that Jadis at the apogee ('aponarn'? Apoapsis, regardless…) of her powers could probably still ensnare me as easily. At leatht until Athlan thaw her off.

Re: 1980: "Turkish Delight"

Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 9:42 pm UTC
by da Doctah
rmsgrey wrote:Fruit cake is highly variable. Good fruit cake is still great, but my tolerance for bad fruit cake has dwindled over the years.


And mediocre fruit cake is a contradiction in terms. It's either really good or really bad; there is no middle ground.

I have a theory that most of the "all fruit cake is nasty stuff ack ptui" legend comes from people whose first taste of fruit cake was the really bad variety, and having tried that they assume it's all the same.

Re: 1980: "Turkish Delight"

Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 11:22 pm UTC
by fibonacci
da Doctah wrote:I have a theory that most of the "all fruit cake is nasty stuff ack ptui" legend comes from people whose first taste of fruit cake was the really bad variety, and having tried that they assume it's all the same.

I've given fruit cake the benefit of the doubt twice now. I've regretted it all three times. I now fervently believe fruit cake is what "designed by a committee" tastes like.

Re: 1980: "Turkish Delight"

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:37 am UTC
by Jorpho
It occurs to me that in referring to "stale bread thingies", Jeff Smith ensured that readers will never be disappointed by the treats often referenced in "Bone". Then again, he does make quite a big deal about quiche, but quiche rarely disappoints.

I never did get to the bottom of those Uzbekistan "bread cakes" that Lukyanenko mentioned in "Night Watch" (or was it one of the sequels?).

Re: 1980: "Turkish Delight"

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:17 am UTC
by Rabid Rabbit
Turkish Delight is delicious, and I've always been amazed at Americans' inability to understand this. (David Willis is a case in point.) Though I can understand people disliking the texture.

The bit I don't get is that no one ever remembers that it wasn't the only thing the White Witch used to tempt Edmund. There was also what sounds like the most amazing cup of hot chocolate ever.

Re: 1980: "Turkish Delight"

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:33 am UTC
by commodorejohn
Jorpho wrote:Then again, he does make quite a big deal about quiche, but quiche rarely disappoints.

This is the opinion of someone who's never had industrial-grade Soggy Flavorless Egg-Bake Quiche-Type Food Product at an Easter breakfast.

Quiche has since redeemed itself in my assessment, but it had a steep uphill climb from that initial experience.

Re: 1980: "Turkish Delight"

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:26 am UTC
by amorya
In the books, the queen asked Edmund what he would most like to eat. He chose Turkish Delight. So he's either a masochist or he happens to have the taste for it :)

Re: 1980: "Turkish Delight"

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:18 pm UTC
by rmsgrey
Jorpho wrote:quiche rarely disappoints.


Slightly undercooked supermarket quiche served cold. The only reason it doesn't disappoint is if experience has already lowered your expectations far enough...

Re: 1980: "Turkish Delight"

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:04 pm UTC
by da Doctah
rmsgrey wrote:
Jorpho wrote:quiche rarely disappoints.


Slightly undercooked supermarket quiche served cold. The only reason it doesn't disappoint is if experience has already lowered your expectations far enough...


I'll never understand how a liking for quiche was chosen as the litmus test for unmanliness.

Quiche is pie.

Pie with bacon!

Re: 1980: "Turkish Delight"

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:26 pm UTC
by orthogon
da Doctah wrote:I'll never understand how a liking for quiche was chosen as the litmus test for unmanliness.

Quiche is pie.


No lid, though. That puts it halfway to shepherd's pie in terms of platonic pie-ishness.

OTOH, it's more platonically pie-ish than the so-called "pies" that have a lid but no sides, and, owing to the resulting lack of structural integrity, rely for support on one of those (invariably brown) oval bowls. Plus, they typically have puff pastry, which, for my money, isn't even worthy of the name.

(Let's not mention pizza).

Re: 1980: "Turkish Delight"

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:19 pm UTC
by cellocgw
Soupspoon wrote:I like lemony things. (I even like to ask for "something lemony, please" after a blood donation, that I know will get me a lemon cordial, over and above tea, coffee, orange (cordial) or plain water.)


Does that include Snickets?

Re: 1980: "Turkish Delight"

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:22 pm UTC
by cellocgw
da Doctah wrote:I'll never understand how a liking for quiche was chosen as the litmus test for unmanliness.

Quiche is pie.

Pie with bacon!


I suspect that, at the time, manly men ate exclusively large bloody steaks with mashed potatoes to the exclusion of all else.

Re: 1980: "Turkish Delight"

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:23 pm UTC
by CelticNot
I concede I'm not a fan of rosewater as a flavouring, but Turkish Delight doesn't seem that horrid to me. Then again, I'm one of the rare adults who still enjoys gummy candy of all shapes, sizes, and flavours.

Re: 1980: "Turkish Delight"

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:11 pm UTC
by gmalivuk
orthogon wrote:
Quiche is pie.


No lid, though.

So it's as much a pie as pumpkin pie, lemon pie, or pecan pie.

Re: 1980: "Turkish Delight"

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:02 pm UTC
by Soupspoon
cellocgw wrote:
Soupspoon wrote:I like lemony things. (I even like to ask for "something lemony, please" after a blood donation, that I know will get me a lemon cordial, over and above tea, coffee, orange (cordial) or plain water.)


Does that include Snickets?


You only get offered that if you suffer a series of unfortunate incidents.

Re: 1980: "Turkish Delight"

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 10:20 pm UTC
by SuicideJunkie
Soupspoon wrote:
cellocgw wrote:Does that include Snickets?

You only get offered that if you suffer a series of unfortunate incidents.

I am under the impression that they require a series of unfortunate incidents as part of the recipe to make them. Either as the process or the ingredients, I'm not quite sure.

Either way it explains why they are never available to buy at confectioneries; they've already gone rotten and been thrown out by the time the foreclosure auctions finish.

Re: 1980: "Turkish Delight"

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:37 pm UTC
by bantler
da Doctah wrote:I'll never understand how a liking for quiche was chosen as the litmus test for unmanliness.


The satirical 80's book: Real Men Don't Eat Quiche

Re: 1980: "Turkish Delight"

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 8:00 pm UTC
by water_moon
Until I had Turkish delight (and to answer the one about American's not having it frequently, the first time I SAW it for purchase I was 34. I'd be willing to bet that my 65+ y.o. parents have never had it in their lives -- though my 6-10 y.o. children could NOT get enough of the pack of rose flavored TD I did find) I assumed it was like jelly beans (which my brother would sell 90% of his family for) or like http://wmsbakery.proboards.com/thread/11/ooey-gooey-butter-cake.

Gooey butter cake is the key to world peace: the smell of it cooking would bring everybody to the table, and they'd be so busying eating it they wouldn't have time to argue.
-My husband

Re: 1980: "Turkish Delight"

Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:12 am UTC
by Vroomfundel
This reminded me about the flame war on a Quora comment thread about whether changing "Philosopher's Stone" to "Sorcerer's Stone" represents dumbing down of American culture.

Apparently fewer among the American readers are acquainted with Turkish delight than with alchemy, perhaps the publishers should have changed the tempting treat instead.

Re: 1980: "Turkish Delight"

Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 12:27 pm UTC
by Wee Red Bird
da Doctah wrote:
rmsgrey wrote:
Jorpho wrote:quiche rarely disappoints.


Slightly undercooked supermarket quiche served cold. The only reason it doesn't disappoint is if experience has already lowered your expectations far enough...


I'll never understand how a liking for quiche was chosen as the litmus test for unmanliness.

Quiche is pie.

Pie with bacon!


It's a fry-up in a pie case. What's not to love.

Re: 1980: "Turkish Delight"

Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 1:01 pm UTC
by sonar1313
Vroomfundel wrote:This reminded me about the flame war on a Quora comment thread about whether changing "Philosopher's Stone" to "Sorcerer's Stone" represents dumbing down of American culture.

Apparently fewer among the American readers are acquainted with Turkish delight than with alchemy, perhaps the publishers should have changed the tempting treat instead.


I like Turkish Delight right where it is in the story, as a small reminder that we're talking about a kid from 1940 England and not 2018 USA. If he likes things I've never heard of, it makes more sense, not less.

Re: 1980: "Turkish Delight"

Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 1:19 pm UTC
by orthogon
gmalivuk wrote:
orthogon wrote:
Quiche is pie.


No lid, though.

So it's as much a pie as pumpkin pie, lemon pie, or pecan pie.

Quite so. What those things are, is tarts. Are tarts. It's tempting to let the ontology slide in the case of pumpkin and pecan, for the sake of the alliteration. But such temptation, like the tasty confections themselves, ought to be resisted.

Re: 1980: "Turkish Delight"

Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 1:24 pm UTC
by HES
orthogon wrote:Quite so. What those things are, is tarts.

What about a treacle tart with a lattice lid?

Re: 1980: "Turkish Delight"

Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 1:36 pm UTC
by Soupspoon

Re: 1980: "Turkish Delight"

Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 7:17 pm UTC
by orthogon
HES wrote:
orthogon wrote:Quite so. What those things are, is tarts.

What about a treacle tart with a lattice lid?

Tart. A pie requires totality in the liddage department. Plus there's the alliteration.

Re: 1980: "Turkish Delight"

Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 8:28 pm UTC
by jello34543
HES wrote:
orthogon wrote:Quite so. What those things are, is tarts.

What about a treacle tart with a lattice lid?


You have very strange pies and/or tarts where you live. I would be very disappointed if my pie was filled with mining products and lidded with lettuce. If the filling was precious metals or jewellery grade gems I would be perfectly willing to take them, but I'd still be disappointed in it by the standards of a pie.

Re: 1980: "Turkish Delight"

Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 8:33 pm UTC
by freezeblade
orthogon wrote:
HES wrote:
orthogon wrote:Quite so. What those things are, is tarts.

What about a treacle tart with a lattice lid?

Tart. A pie requires totality in the liddage department. Plus there's the alliteration.


So wait, lattice doesn't count? What about cherry/apple/berry pies with a lattice lid instead of a fully enclosed lid?

Re: 1980: "Turkish Delight"

Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 3:10 pm UTC
by jewish_scientist
When I first read The Chronicles of Narnia, I had no idea what Turkish Delight was. My best guess that I used to picture the scene in my mind was slices of turkey covered in honey/ syrup. I have never actually had Turkish Delight. How does my version compare to realities?

Re: 1980: "Turkish Delight"

Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 3:21 pm UTC
by Soupspoon
jewish_scientist wrote:When I first read The Chronicles of Narnia, I had no idea what Turkish Delight was. My best guess that I used to picture the scene in my mind was slices of turkey covered in honey/ syrup. I have never actually had Turkish Delight. How does my version compare to realities?

Depending on food combination preferences, I think most people who have already expressed opinions would say either much better or much worse…

Re: 1980: "Turkish Delight"

Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 4:45 pm UTC
by Pfhorrest
Honey-glazed turkey does sound more appealing than actual Turkish delight to me, but only in the way that, say, a spicy italian sausage sounds better than german chocolate cake (with coconut flakes, ew): it's a different category of food altogether.

Re: 1980: "Turkish Delight"

Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 8:29 pm UTC
by Tyndmyr
commodorejohn wrote:
Pfhorrest wrote:Never having had Turkish delight or even bothered looking up what it is, I've imagined it as something like baklava, which I also think is really overrated.

Either you've only ever had baklava from the grocery store, or you are a madman.


Baklava is one of those things that varies immensely. I thought I disliked it for quite some time until I happened to try it at a restaurant that just did an amazing rendition. I ate more of that than was even vaguely reasonable. And then tried it somewhere else, and was again disappointed.

So, perhaps it's just one of those things that is hard to get just so.

Turkish delight...I'm not sure I've ever actually had it. I definitely imagined something very different as a kid, and if I've sampled it since, it certainly didn't stick in my memory. Anyways, the fact that it's not something particularly well known in the US probably adds to the book. Helps contribute to the fantastical/foreign feel and what not. It's hard to imagine substituting, say, Snickers bars or any other sweet in there, and getting the same vibe from it.

Re: 1980: "Turkish Delight"

Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 10:03 pm UTC
by xtifr
orthogon wrote:
gmalivuk wrote:
orthogon wrote:
Quiche is pie.


No lid, though.

So it's as much a pie as pumpkin pie, lemon pie, or pecan pie.

Quite so. What those things are, is tarts. Are tarts.


"Art tarts." If thou must stick with 17th century definitions of words, thou should conjugate thy verbs like a proper Elizabethan. :P

Re: 1980: "Turkish Delight"

Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2018 8:15 am UTC
by orthogon
xtifr wrote:
orthogon wrote:
gmalivuk wrote:
orthogon wrote:
Quiche is pie.


No lid, though.

So it's as much a pie as pumpkin pie, lemon pie, or pecan pie.

Quite so. What those things are, is tarts. Are tarts.


"Art tarts." If thou must stick with 17th century definitions of words, thou should conjugate thy verbs like a proper Elizabethan. :P

Haha. Though, of course, art only ever served as the informal first person singular ("thou art") in Early Modern. There's some interesting discussion here of the plural conjugations, which were in flux in Middle English and into the Early Modern period, but the dispute is mainly over whether it's "they are tarts" or "they be tarts".

Re: 1980: "Turkish Delight"

Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2018 8:57 am UTC
by Soupspoon
It was said that after the Second World War, evacuated children returned to their schools having changed from saying "we is" to "us be". (Many variations of the tale exist, as do regional disgrammars.)

Re: 1980: "Turkish Delight"

Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 4:36 pm UTC
by orthogon
In related news (related, that is, to the completely off-topic matter of people trying to use archaic language but not doing the research), I keep seeing posters from this Bud Light campaign:
Image
Why would you even think of putting a third person singular verb ending on a blooming adverb?

Re: 1980: "Turkish Delight"

Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 5:47 pm UTC
by Mikeski
orthogon wrote:Why would you even think of putting a third person singular verb ending on a blooming adverb?


Because there's no such thing as bad publicity.

Re: 1980: "Turkish Delight"

Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 6:44 pm UTC
by orthogon
Mikeski wrote:
orthogon wrote:Why would you even think of putting a third person singular verb ending on a blooming adverb?


Because there's no such thing as bad publicity.

Almost certainly.

I just noticed that in small text it says "the top doth twisteth off", which is almost right except they needed to choose between "the top twisteth" and "the top doth twist". Both sound quite amusing to my ear.

Re: 1980: "Turkish Delight"

Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 6:49 pm UTC
by Soupspoon
I'd seen those ads at a distance. Hadn't read them. (Consider me disinterested by the product. Yes, disinterested. Also uninterested.)