1989: "IMHO"

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Pfhorrest
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Re: 1989: "IMHO"

Postby Pfhorrest » Sat May 05, 2018 3:45 am UTC

I don't know in what language 'ÿ' is pronounced /o/, but in Greek (at least Ancient Greek, not sure about modern) 'Y' was pronounced like German 'ö', and that's the reason that sound is represented in IPA as /ʏ/. (Basically, make an /i/ sound, like "eeeeeeee", but while you're doing it, round your lips, like you're going to put them around a... lets say straw. Since 'y' often makes /i/ in English, that's the way I remember it).
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Re: 1989: "IMHO"

Postby RAGBRAIvet » Sat May 05, 2018 4:22 am UTC

And the answer to "The Big One":  most modern style guides now call for only one space.  However, they are wrong, each and every one of them.  It's two spaces, just like God — a/k/a the nun who was my high school typing teacher — intended.

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Re: 1989: "IMHO"

Postby da Doctah » Sat May 05, 2018 4:44 am UTC

ucim wrote:Even worse are subject lines. Immensely useful, until the conversation drifts.

Once on Usenet, after a recent thread in which someone had complained of excessive topic-drift, I tried to drift-proof my next thread by giving it the title "Absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with giraffes".

Predictably, the first response began talking about giraffes.

(And yes, back in a time when the standard image format was BMP, I indeed chose giraffes (with an inferred soft G) as the arbitrary topic to be untalked about.)

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Re: 1989: "IMHO"

Postby FriendOfFred » Sat May 05, 2018 4:49 am UTC

RAGBRAIvet wrote:And the answer to "The Big One":  most modern style guides now call for only one space.  However, they are wrong, each and every one of them.  It's two spaces, just like God — a/k/a the nun who was my high school typing teacher — intended.

Coincidentally, just today I was reading Matthew Butterick's characteristically confident opinion on this.

I think that one standard word space is better than two standard word spaces if those are the choices, but Butterick may be a bit too dogmatic here. A little extra space doesn't go amiss. Honestly, the spacing algorithm developed by Donald Knuth for TeX - i.e., spaces after punctuation are the same size as interword spaces by default, but stretchier and less compressible when spacing is adjusted for justification - is the best solution we'll ever have.

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Re: 1989: "IMHO"

Postby RyanofTinellb » Sat May 05, 2018 5:14 am UTC

I say "Squiggle" for SQL, inherited from my father.

I confused someone the other day by using the abbreviation smh in conversation. I meant "shaking my head"; he'd only heard of "so much hate".

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Re: 1989: "IMHO"

Postby teelo » Sat May 05, 2018 6:08 am UTC

What the fuck is WTF? Warcraft Text File

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Re: 1989: "IMHO"

Postby kodiac » Sat May 05, 2018 7:53 am UTC

I've been using the internet since 1995, with at least 5 years of regular visits to Usenet back when that was fairly well known, and I'm certain I've never seen the abbreviation "SMDH" before today. I know all the others used in this comic.
For anyone else who doesn't know that one and is too lazy to look it up, various sources say it stands for "shaking my damn head".

Soupspoon wrote:Over here, you wouldn't have put Jif in your sandwiches.

The linked article says Jif cleaning products were changed to Cif, but that change never happened here. Did the Cif name stick around?
I had also never heard of Jif peanut butter before today.

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Re: 1989: "IMHO"

Postby Eebster the Great » Sat May 05, 2018 11:15 am UTC

kodiac wrote:I've been using the internet since 1995, with at least 5 years of regular visits to Usenet back when that was fairly well known, and I'm certain I've never seen the abbreviation "SMDH" before today. I know all the others used in this comic.
For anyone else who doesn't know that one and is too lazy to look it up, various sources say it stands for "shaking my damn head".

SMH is quite common. The emphatic form isn't as common as, say, lmfao, but you'll see it from time to time if you keep a lookout.

Incidentally, the brand is famous enough in the U.S. as to be at risk of genericization.

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Re: 1989: "IMHO"

Postby Moose Anus » Sat May 05, 2018 2:33 pm UTC

jgh wrote:
suso wrote:By myself and others mostly who got online in the early 90s and Steve Wilhite, who is the guy who wrote the damn format, it's pronounced Jif, because that's the way he intended it ("Choosy developers choose GIF", parodying the Jif peanut butter commercial).

Ah yes, Jaffics Interchange Format.

Exactly. I've also heard of people pronounce JPEG as, "jay-peg," like Joint Potographic Experts Group.
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Re: 1989: "IMHO"

Postby sotanaht » Sat May 05, 2018 3:53 pm UTC

smh tbh fam

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Re: 1989: "IMHO"

Postby Pfhorrest » Sat May 05, 2018 5:24 pm UTC

SMH (and for that matter ‘fam’) make the speaker sound like an obnoxious kid to me, definitely not from the same era as most of these other acronyms. (TBH is old school though).
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Re: 1989: "IMHO"

Postby Weeks » Sat May 05, 2018 6:35 pm UTC

I have not heard anyone ever pronouncing it like "jay-feg"
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Re: 1989: "IMHO"

Postby GlassHouses » Sat May 05, 2018 6:40 pm UTC

Moose Anus wrote:I've also heard of people pronounce JPEG as, "jay-peg," like Joint Potographic Experts Group.

Are you saying there are people who don't pronounce JPEG as "jay-peg"? :shock:

Pfhorrest wrote:SMH (and for that matter ‘fam’) make the speaker sound like an obnoxious kid to me

What's "fam"?

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Re: 1989: "IMHO"

Postby jgh » Sat May 05, 2018 7:27 pm UTC

pareidolon wrote:Hey let's have a more interesting conversation. How do all of you pronounce GNU?

I cite Flanders and Swann.

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Re: 1989: "IMHO"

Postby scharb » Sun May 06, 2018 2:14 am UTC

kodiac wrote:I've been using the internet since 1995, with at least 5 years of regular visits to Usenet back when that was fairly well known, and I'm certain I've never seen the abbreviation "SMDH" before today. I know all the others used in this comic.

I think it originated on social media. IIRC, on Black Twitter.

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Re: 1989: "IMHO"

Postby Mikeski » Sun May 06, 2018 4:06 am UTC

GlassHouses wrote:
Moose Anus wrote:I've also heard of people pronounce JPEG as, "jay-peg," like Joint Potographic Experts Group.

Are you saying there are people who don't pronounce JPEG as "jay-peg"? :shock:

[explaining the joke]

The "Gif-instead-of-Jif" argument is often made by alluding to the elements of the acronym. "G"raphics "I"nterchange "F"ormat should have those three letters pronounced the same way as they are pronounced in those words.

Doing the same for "jpeg" results in the pronunciation "jay-feg", which is silly. So the "P" must stand for Potographic, and not Photographic?

(And thus, the original argument for Gif over Jif based on its component words is silly.)

[/explaining the joke]

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Re: 1989: "IMHO"

Postby JetstreamGW » Sun May 06, 2018 5:10 am UTC

Weeks wrote:"Gif" is pronounced that way by truncation of the word "gift"


Zhyffe. Because Mike Rugnetta just wants to watch the world burn :P


Mikeski wrote:
GlassHouses wrote:
Moose Anus wrote:I've also heard of people pronounce JPEG as, "jay-peg," like Joint Potographic Experts Group.

Are you saying there are people who don't pronounce JPEG as "jay-peg"? :shock:

[explaining the joke]

The "Gif-instead-of-Jif" argument is often made by alluding to the elements of the acronym. "G"raphics "I"nterchange "F"ormat should have those three letters pronounced the same way as they are pronounced in those words.

Doing the same for "jpeg" results in the pronunciation "jay-feg", which is silly. So the "P" must stand for Potographic, and not Photographic?

(And thus, the original argument for Gif over Jif based on its component words is silly.)

[/explaining the joke]


I've always pronounced it with a g-sound because gif is like gift without the T :P

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Re: 1989: "IMHO"

Postby Thesh » Sun May 06, 2018 6:29 am UTC

IMHO*, you should all go fuck yourselves.


*In My Hostile Opinion

EDIT: hedonistic also works.
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Re: 1989: "IMHO"

Postby PM 2Ring » Sun May 06, 2018 8:10 am UTC

Pfhorrest wrote:
jgh wrote:Ah yes, Jaffics Interchange Format.

Giraffe-ics Interchange Format?


Giraffics Interchange Format
Spoiler:
Image

Moose Anus wrote:Exactly. I've also heard of people pronounce JPEG as, "jay-peg," like Joint Potographic Experts Group.


I thought it was Joyful Pornographic Entertainment Graphics.

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Re: 1989: "IMHO"

Postby DavCrav » Sun May 06, 2018 9:13 am UTC

I'm also confused (as someone who always pronounced 'gif' with a hard 'g') because most words starting with 'gi' use a hard 'g', don't they?

Off the top of my head:

Soft 'g': gin, giraffe, giblet, gist,
Hard 'g': gift, gill, girl, gib, gimp, gird, git.

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Re: 1989: "IMHO"

Postby Soupspoon » Sun May 06, 2018 10:14 am UTC

Soupspoon wrote:(I did not know this rule. That this was a rule. Because of the many common exceptions.)

Amazingly.

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Re: 1989: "IMHO"

Postby sotanaht » Sun May 06, 2018 11:17 am UTC

Mikeski wrote:
GlassHouses wrote:
Moose Anus wrote:I've also heard of people pronounce JPEG as, "jay-peg," like Joint Potographic Experts Group.

Are you saying there are people who don't pronounce JPEG as "jay-peg"? :shock:

[explaining the joke]

The "Gif-instead-of-Jif" argument is often made by alluding to the elements of the acronym. "G"raphics "I"nterchange "F"ormat should have those three letters pronounced the same way as they are pronounced in those words.

Doing the same for "jpeg" results in the pronunciation "jay-feg", which is silly. So the "P" must stand for Potographic, and not Photographic?

(And thus, the original argument for Gif over Jif based on its component words is silly.)

[/explaining the joke]

GIF should be pronounced like Gift, the closest word in the English language to how it is spelled. I've never heard anyone pronounce that "jift" and I'd probably have to hurt them if they did.

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Re: 1989: "IMHO"

Postby mostlygrounded » Sun May 06, 2018 2:59 pm UTC

Reka wrote:The H in IMHO can't mean "honest", because then IMNSHO doesn't work.

Liar.

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Re: 1989: "IMHO"

Postby YTPrenewed » Sun May 06, 2018 4:43 pm UTC

Why not just use real words instead?

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Re: 1989: "IMHO"

Postby Mikeski » Sun May 06, 2018 5:16 pm UTC

YTPrenewed wrote:Why not just use real words instead?

Originally (Usenet era), because the average person didn't know how to type, so any shortcut was worthwhile. It sounds strange to the generation who were born with facebook accounts, but "unable to touch-type" was the default. I'm "only" 44, and I had to take a typing class in the 9th grade (that's at about 14-15 years old, for non USAans). Nobody in the class knew how to type already. And we learned on typewriters, not computers.

Today, cuz SMS & Twitter limits. & lazy.

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Re: 1989: "IMHO"

Postby hetas » Sun May 06, 2018 5:47 pm UTC

I wonder if kids today will learn to type. Touch screen is the interface today, not keyboard.

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Re: 1989: "IMHO"

Postby ucim » Sun May 06, 2018 5:56 pm UTC

Mikeski wrote:Originally (Usenet era), because the average person didn't know how to type
Doubt it. While I agree that typing is a learned art, once (keyboard) computers became common, everybody typed well enough. It's just a matter of doing it enough. And whether touch-typing or two-finger typing, they were fast enough. (Two finger typists actually have the edge here). Also, keyboards are far easier to type on than mechanical (or even electric) typewriters, and mistakes are backspaceoverable, so typing isn't so painful.

Rather, IMEO it's that online some phrases were very common, and common phrases tend to get abbreviated everywhere, not just online. Also, some online access was paid by the byte, not the unlimited privacy invasion customized experience we have today, so (like the early telegraph era) shortening was Good.

Mikeski wrote:I'm "only" 44, and...
Sheesh. Kids today...

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Re: 1989: "IMHO"

Postby Soupspoon » Sun May 06, 2018 6:13 pm UTC

Mikeski wrote:[Originally (Usenet era), because the average person didn't know how to type, so any shortcut was worthwhile.
I contest that. Prior to The Eternal September, the average "ability to type" was quite high on Usenet. WebTV, AOL and Google Groups's integrations of baically any old Tom, Dick and Sally with a computer-type thing in their bedroom/living room, that had access to a modem, ruined this. Not that there weren't "characters" beforehand, and it was always a bell-curve of abilities, aptitudes and attention to detail, but there was a lowering of the bar (and a removal of the easy help/guidance/nudging by someone savvy on the next public console over) by vastly decreasing the proportion of Higher Education or technical-professioned users of the Internet.

But, like the days of the pre-telephone telegraph, there always were community-invented abbreviations made to make communications more efficient (once the Abbrvs were made commonplace known), as well as the whole 1337-crowd deliberately obfuscating for fun and profit W4R3Z. A deeper level of 'in crowd, in jokes' than general Usenet (depending on which sub-group, I generally stuck to the ones that weren't total anarchy, though there were of course many that were…) but people even back then managed to often find their own level. Even outside of .m ones, and it was truly amazing how much good will there was to self-police things without an actual moderator. Well, it's amazing given what we see these days. Not wishing to be seen as elitist (or 1337ist!), even if I despair about a googly amount of hoi polloi that have foundnthe Internet (or at least the Web) in the last couple of decades… ;)


To address the post now appeared directly above, this tablet keyboard is apparently designed to have a finger slide between letters and build up a word (approximately like I just did it with that word "approximately", against my better nature), while I'm sort-of-touch-typing but reduced, by reasons of practicality, to using two index fingers rapidly pecking out (without the "hunt" in chunt and peck") the letters at a good number of words per minute (I learnt this art, as well as with actual data entry, using Mavis Beacon Typing Tutor back in the '80s!) but with regular need to go back and deal with an attempt at the letter "a" accidentally hitting the shift 'key', and the time needed to hold down a key to use (instead) the punctuation attached to it (when I don't click on the "change entire keyboard to numeric/punctuation keyboards" element) is awfully and awkwardly slow and prone to leaving me with a "c" instead of a quote. Never mid the not infrequent possibility of hitting the "whole suggested word" row above the qwertyuiop line (right now I'm given "giving given give" choices, but imagine I hit the word above Durham during the typing ("Durham" was above the "i").

It's a completely different world. No doubt a a youngster of today would be able to deal with it better (I got good at Predictive Text, back in the day, and haven't really moved on) and then eventually: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9kTVZiJ3Uc

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Re: 1989: "IMHO"

Postby wlao » Sun May 06, 2018 8:48 pm UTC

This is the first recorded occurance of O M G:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=u2FnMk44sAg

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Re: 1989: "IMHO"

Postby GlassHouses » Sun May 06, 2018 10:03 pm UTC

Pfhorrest wrote:I don't know in what language 'ÿ' is pronounced /o/, but in Greek (at least Ancient Greek, not sure about modern) 'Y' was pronounced like German 'ö', and that's the reason that sound is represented in IPA as /ʏ/

No, the German vowel that sounds like Ancient Greek υ is the ü. Incidentally, the German y also sounds like the Greek υ, so Tür and Typ have the same vowel sound.

The modern Greek υ sounds like /i/, like most vowels in modern Greek. :)

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Re: 1989: "IMHO"

Postby Soupspoon » Sun May 06, 2018 10:30 pm UTC

Reminds me of Cymru. "Kum-ree" gets you close enough, if you're not trying to finesse a particularly precise northern or southern accent, and certainly closer than the common Sais version of "Kim-rue" or anything starting with "S…".

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Re: 1989: "IMHO"

Postby Eebster the Great » Mon May 07, 2018 2:15 am UTC

sotanaht wrote:GIF should be pronounced like Gift, the closest word in the English language to how it is spelled.

"Gin" and "gift" are equally close to "gif." Soft gee is if anything the standard before an i, and when I encounter names that start Gi-, I usually first assume the G will be soft. The other logical pronunciation, "Gee Ai Eff," is also closer to "Jif." The reality though is that once someone starts pronouncing a word a particular way, that pronunciation will sound "right" to them and everything else will sound wrong.

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Re: 1989: "IMHO"

Postby Old Bruce » Mon May 07, 2018 3:30 am UTC

YTPrenewed wrote:Why not just use real words instead?

This. [one-internets-award emoticon] [one-internets-award emoticon] [one-internets-award emoticon]

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Re: 1989: "IMHO"

Postby Vir4030 » Mon May 07, 2018 1:15 pm UTC

Every time I see "SMH", I read it as "Shut My Hole". SMDH = Shut My Damn Hole, easily. It's a lot more fun to read it that way, IMHO.

I had to look it up anytime I wanted the real meaning for years because I couldn't remember it. I have never actually used it.

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Re: 1989: "IMHO"

Postby da Doctah » Mon May 07, 2018 1:27 pm UTC

Eebster the Great wrote:
sotanaht wrote:GIF should be pronounced like Gift, the closest word in the English language to how it is spelled.

"Gin" and "gift" are equally close to "gif." Soft gee is if anything the standard before an i, and when I encounter names that start Gi-, I usually first assume the G will be soft. The other logical pronunciation, "Gee Ai Eff," is also closer to "Jif." The reality though is that once someone starts pronouncing a word a particular way, that pronunciation will sound "right" to them and everything else will sound wrong.

The closest word to "GIF", phonemically, is "give" (differs only in the voicing or non-voicing of the final consonant).

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Re: 1989: "IMHO"

Postby orthogon » Mon May 07, 2018 1:35 pm UTC

da Doctah wrote:
Eebster the Great wrote:
sotanaht wrote:GIF should be pronounced like Gift, the closest word in the English language to how it is spelled.

"Gin" and "gift" are equally close to "gif." Soft gee is if anything the standard before an i, and when I encounter names that start Gi-, I usually first assume the G will be soft. The other logical pronunciation, "Gee Ai Eff," is also closer to "Jif." The reality though is that once someone starts pronouncing a word a particular way, that pronunciation will sound "right" to them and everything else will sound wrong.

The closest word to "GIF", phonemically, is "give" (differs only in the voicing or non-voicing of the final consonant).

Ooh, ooh, this is the supposedly correct meaning of "begging the question", isn't it?

ETA Also, is there any absolute sense of phonemic closeness? Voiced and unvoiced consonants are almost allophones in Japanese, but carry plenty of meaning in English.
xtifr wrote:... and orthogon merely sounds undecided.

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Re: 1989: "IMHO"

Postby badguyty » Mon May 07, 2018 3:11 pm UTC

One that I think should be on this list is the pronunciation of sudo. I had a professor in college that claims a student pronounced sudo "sway dough". While hilarious and now the way I pronounce it while giving interviews to throw off the applicant it is just so hilariously wrong that it is needed to be shared.

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Re: 1989: "IMHO"

Postby sonar1313 » Mon May 07, 2018 4:30 pm UTC

YTPrenewed wrote:Why not just use real words instead?


Because that would require learning how to spell.

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Re: 1989: "IMHO"

Postby jgh » Mon May 07, 2018 9:50 pm UTC

Eebster the Great wrote:
sotanaht wrote:GIF should be pronounced like Gift, the closest word in the English language to how it is spelled.

"Gin" and "gift" are equally close to "gif."

No they're not. Gin shares the first two letters, gift shares the first three letters, gift is 50% closer to GIF than gin, and pattern matching for unfamiliar words tells you that GIF is GIFT with the T missing.

Earlier I looked through the wikidictionary of words that start gi- and 90% of them are GI- not JI-.

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Re: 1989: "IMHO"

Postby ucim » Mon May 07, 2018 11:41 pm UTC

jgh wrote:No they're not. Gin shares the first two letters, gift shares the first three letters, gift is 50% closer to GIF than gin...
But you are not penalizing for extraneous letters.

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