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Re: 1989: "IMHO"

Posted: Tue May 08, 2018 1:06 am UTC
by rmsgrey
So, to avoid the argument over whether "gin" or "gift" is closer to "gif", I looked up the 26 possible 3-letter combinations starting "gi" on wiktionary. Six of them had English pronunciations listed:

gif was listed with both pronunciations, soft 'g' listed as the inventor's preferred; hard 'g' as the most common.

"gin" was listed with a soft 'g'.

"gib", "gig", "git" and "giz" were all listed with a hard 'g'.

So, just looking at the words that match "gif" according to exactly the same pattern as "gin", it's clear that "gin" is the exception...

Re: 1989: "IMHO"

Posted: Tue May 08, 2018 2:24 am UTC
by GlassHouses
To add a descriptive angle to the heretofore prescriptive gif vs. jif debate:

Before coming to America in 1998, I had never heard anyone say "gif" in English; I'd only heard it in Dutch, where it is pronounced just like the Dutch word "gif" (which means "poison," but that's not really relevant :mrgreen: ). Which, in IPA, is /ɣif/ or /xif/, neither of which sounds English.

So, coming to America, I had no preconceived notions about how gif should be pronounced in English. And what I found was that almost everyone said "jif." I have heard people call it "gif" with a hard g, but they were in the minority.

If I were a dictionary writer, I'd say that the pronunciation is jif, with gif being a variation.

Re: 1989: "IMHO"

Posted: Tue May 08, 2018 2:40 am UTC
by Pfhorrest
That anecdotal experience matches mine, GlassHouses (I hardly ever heard anyone say it with a hard-g out loud until recently; all the nerds I hung out with in person in the 90s said it with a soft g).
GlassHouses wrote:What's "fam"?

Short for "family", but seems to be used something like "dude" or "bro" or "mate"; a nonsexual term of endearment expressing closeness to the recipient. I have the impression that it comes from African American communities but I don't actually know and have only ever heard it on the internet, which is probably why it has connotations of "annoying kids" to me (as the internet is mostly populated by annoying kids these days, as far as I can tell).

Re: 1989: "IMHO"

Posted: Tue May 08, 2018 4:10 am UTC
by Fungo4
"Mayonnaise or Miracle Whip?"
"Blend them together with horseradish."

Re: 1989: "IMHO"

Posted: Tue May 08, 2018 10:50 am UTC
by CharonPDX
SQL: "squeal" As in:

MS SQL: "Mice squeal"

MySQL: "My squeal"

Oracle: "Squeal like a pig"

(Yes, that's actually how I refer to them. People are either thoroughly confused, laugh riotously, or groan.)

Re: 1989: "IMHO"

Posted: Tue May 08, 2018 4:40 pm UTC
by rmsgrey
Pfhorrest wrote:That anecdotal experience matches mine, GlassHouses (I hardly ever heard anyone say it with a hard-g out loud until recently; all the nerds I hung out with in person in the 90s said it with a soft g).


It's opposite to my anecdotal experience - where I never heard it said with a soft g until... probably Mike Rugnetta's discussions of the controversy. I'm assuming (though this is pure guesswork) that it's because the hard g variant has no homophones (outside of Planescape), while the soft g variant would be homophonic with both a cleaning product and a lemon product.

GlassHouses wrote:If I were a dictionary writer, I'd say that the pronunciation is jif, with gif being a variation.


If you were a dictionary writer, I'd hope that you'd research the matter more widely rather than just relying on your own clique's dialect (unless you're composing a dictionary of your own local dialect). Some spot research comes up with a lot of people discussing the controversy (which apparently hit headlines in 2013) and this page discussing an actual survey: https://www.economist.com/blogs/graphic ... y-chart-21 which shows hard-g outnumbering soft-g (with gee eye eff a strong third)

Re: 1989: "IMHO"

Posted: Tue May 08, 2018 10:39 pm UTC
by Eebster the Great
I used to pronounce it as an initialism when I was very young (Gee Ai Eff) before I started hearing people talk about Jay-pegs and jifs and stuff, which is when I picked it up. I don't know if people around me didn't use the hard gee pronunciation or if I just didn't notice, but my family has always used the soft gee. I think the fact that people form groups that pronounce the word alike is part of what makes it so controversial. "People pronounce it like what!?" Obviously that happens to a lot of words, but in this case, people are exposed to it constantly in text and rarely in speech, which magnifies the effect of a familiar word suddenly becoming unfamiliar and strange.

Re: 1989: "IMHO"

Posted: Wed May 09, 2018 7:40 am UTC
by Eternal Density
I thought IMHO was that purple haired girl in Megatokyo. With the black ribbons and... I haven't read it in several years.

Also the g in gif isn't a soft g or a hard g, but rather a firm g as in doge. ;)

Re: 1989: "IMHO"

Posted: Wed May 09, 2018 8:37 am UTC
by Eebster the Great
I always just assumed the G in "doge" was the ʒ in "measure," but I never thought about the fact that other people might pronounce it way differently.

Re: 1989: "IMHO"

Posted: Wed May 09, 2018 5:25 pm UTC
by Pfhorrest
Apparently the dogecoin people say it like that too. I always said "doh-gay", on the assumption that the word was a Japanization of "doggy", since the original meme seems very Engrish.

Re: 1989: "IMHO"

Posted: Wed May 09, 2018 7:28 pm UTC
by SuicideJunkie
I pronounce that as dodgy-coin in my head. I've never had cause to speak it aloud and likely never will.

Re: 1989: "IMHO"

Posted: Wed May 09, 2018 9:41 pm UTC
by xtifr
pareidolon wrote:I've always used IMO, but I guess my opinion is neither humble nor honest.


I used to use IMAO ("arrogant"), just to avoid the image of annoying false humility I associate with the standard version, but I got tired of explaining it, and just went to IMO.

Hey let's have a more interesting conversation. How do all of you pronounce GNU?


The beast: the 'g' is silent. (Or approximately so.)

The project: hard 'g'.

Eebster the Great wrote:I always just assumed the G in "doge" was the ʒ in "measure," but I never thought about the fact that other people might pronounce it way differently.


The Italian city-state rulers: "dʒ".
The canine meme: dunno how it's supposed to be pronounced, but I've always pronounced it as if it were "dough" with a hard 'g' on the end.

Re: 1989: "IMHO"

Posted: Thu May 10, 2018 1:49 am UTC
by Eebster the Great
So like "Dodge" with a long O? That's what I was thinking of as the most obvious alternative pronunciation. I was probably comparing it to French-derived words like "gamboge," but really -oge doesn't come up much in English.

Re: 1989: "IMHO"

Posted: Thu May 10, 2018 4:04 pm UTC
by Vir4030
Pfhorrest wrote:
GlassHouses wrote:What's "fam"?

Short for "family", but seems to be used something like "dude" or "bro" or "mate"; a nonsexual term of endearment expressing closeness to the recipient. I have the impression that it comes from African American communities but I don't actually know and have only ever heard it on the internet, which is probably why it has connotations of "annoying kids" to me (as the internet is mostly populated by annoying kids these days, as far as I can tell).


It is especially popular at http://reddit.com/r/the_donald - used to express closeness to the entire community.

Re: 1989: "IMHO"

Posted: Fri May 11, 2018 3:01 am UTC
by Steve the Pocket
Pfhorrest wrote:
GlassHouses wrote:What's "fam"?

Short for "family", but seems to be used something like "dude" or "bro" or "mate"; a nonsexual term of endearment expressing closeness to the recipient. I have the impression that it comes from African American communities but I don't actually know and have only ever heard it on the internet, which is probably why it has connotations of "annoying kids" to me (as the internet is mostly populated by annoying kids these days, as far as I can tell).

In my experience, people have a habit of just slapping it onto the end of sentences for no apparent reason. Not unlike what like my generation tended to do with "lol". Oddly enough, the first time I heard the word was in way back in the late '90s on an episode of Honey, I Shrunk the Kids: The Series, so I don't know if it just took that long to propagate or if that show was way ahead of its time.

Eebster the Great wrote:I always just assumed the G in "doge" was the ʒ in "measure," but I never thought about the fact that other people might pronounce it way differently.

That's how Strong Bad pronounced it.

Re: 1989: "IMHO"

Posted: Fri May 11, 2018 3:20 am UTC
by Eebster the Great
"Fam" does come from African American vernacular and is at least a better term than "bro," I guess. I must be getting old and stodgy, because I don't like the word at all.

Actually, it looks like it has been used for much longer in London slang, but the recent trend and slight shift in meaning probably comes from AAVE. I've know it was in rap at least 15 years ago.

Re: 1989: "IMHO"

Posted: Fri May 11, 2018 7:06 am UTC
by gcgcgcgc
I thought IMHO = In My Haunted Orphanage.

Re: 1989: "IMHO"

Posted: Fri May 11, 2018 1:19 pm UTC
by da Doctah
Back when I used to sell a few things on eBay (mostly old exercise VHS tapes, a segment of the videotape market that held out longer than the rest) I also frequented the message boards there, and kept seeing the abbreviation DH. Until it was explained to me, I was reading it as "Divorced Husband".

Re: 1989: "IMHO"

Posted: Fri May 11, 2018 2:16 pm UTC
by DavidSh
I think of DH as Designated Hitter. What were they using it for?

Re: 1989: "IMHO"

Posted: Fri May 11, 2018 2:46 pm UTC
by ucim
DavidSh wrote:I think of DH as Designated Hitter.
I originally read this as "... Designated Hitler", which might be a useful thing to have on the internet.

Jose

Re: 1989: "IMHO"

Posted: Fri May 11, 2018 3:14 pm UTC
by Soupspoon
Until you explicitly pointed it out that it didn't say that, I had continued to read it as if it did.

(No idea about DH. Not seeing any useful context in the scenario it's used in. VHS tapes… Drum-Harmed? Exercise videos… Durably Healthy? eBay… Don't Hesitate?)

Re: 1989: "IMHO"

Posted: Fri May 11, 2018 4:39 pm UTC
by Mikeski
ucim wrote:
DavidSh wrote:I think of DH as Designated Hitter.
I originally read this as "... Designated Hitler", which might be a useful thing to have on the internet.

Pretty sure Designated Hitler is defined as whoever is (or is closest to becoming) the Republican PotUS.

The current DH is sort-of special since half of the other Republicans think he deserves the title, too.

Re: 1989: "IMHO"

Posted: Fri May 11, 2018 11:51 pm UTC
by Eebster the Great
Wikipedia says it stands for "Dear Husband." Presumably, this is used on parts of the internet I never visit.

Re: 1989: "IMHO"

Posted: Wed May 16, 2018 8:54 pm UTC
by Archgeek
ucim wrote:
DavidSh wrote:I think of DH as Designated Hitter.
I originally read this as "... Designated Hitler", which might be a useful thing to have on the internet.

Jose

I think that's a character class in the new top-down open-world-PVP MMORPG "GoatScape".

For my part, I read it as "Donkey Hat".

Re: 1989: "IMHO"

Posted: Wed May 16, 2018 9:15 pm UTC
by Reka
DH = Dear Husband, DD = Dear Daughter, DS = Dear Son. For multiple children of the same gender, you'll sometimes see DD1, DD2, etc. You'll sometimes see these defined as Darling instead of Dear.

Re: 1989: "IMHO"

Posted: Wed May 16, 2018 9:47 pm UTC
by Pfhorrest
♫ ... when in trouble you call DW ... ♫

Re: 1989: "IMHO"

Posted: Wed May 16, 2018 10:46 pm UTC
by Soupspoon
... if there's something strange in you neighborhood, who you gonna call? GB!

Re: 1989: "IMHO"

Posted: Wed May 16, 2018 11:40 pm UTC
by Old Bruce
Soupspoon wrote:... if there's something strange in you neighborhood, who you gonna call? GB!

Is that George Bush senior or junior? Oh, and what is the number.

Re: 1989: "IMHO"

Posted: Thu May 17, 2018 2:05 am UTC
by Soupspoon
Old Bruce wrote:
Soupspoon wrote:... if there's something strange in you neighborhood, who you gonna call? GB!

Is that George Bush senior or junior? Oh, and what is the number.

It used to be 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue. Perhaps now it's Pennsylvania 6500!

Re: 1989: "IMHO"

Posted: Thu May 17, 2018 3:20 am UTC
by GlassHouses
Soupspoon wrote:
Old Bruce wrote:
Soupspoon wrote:... if there's something strange in you neighborhood, who you gonna call? GB!

Is that George Bush senior or junior? Oh, and what is the number.

It used to be 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue. Perhaps now it's Pennsylvania 6500!

Could be. Several years ago, a relative of mine visited New York City, and when he gave me his contact information there, I saw he was staying in the Hotel Pennsylvania, and that it still has that number. (Although their web site doesn't show it any more, it shows a toll-free number instead. Progress!)

Re: 1989: "IMHO"

Posted: Fri May 18, 2018 1:04 pm UTC
by ...m...
...suck my damned horse...

Re: 1989: "IMHO"

Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2018 10:52 am UTC
by suso
sotanaht wrote:
GIF should be pronounced like Gift, the closest word in the English language to how it is spelled. I've never heard anyone pronounce that "jift" and I'd probably have to hurt them if they did.


If you're willing to hurt someone over the way they pronounce a word, that says a lot about you as a person. :(