2065: "Who Sends the First Text?"

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andy01q
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2065: "Who Sends the First Text?"

Postby andy01q » Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:14 pm UTC

Image
Title text: "I sort of wish my texting app showed the percentage next to each person, but also sort of don't want to know."

This one hits home with me as in friendships people usually try to balance this.
The end of a good friendship is usually when the balancing fails.
The one always starting will start less and less often. Always with cheerful happy assertive responses. But the meetings which get scarcer also get more and more awkward until both feel they don't know each other anymore.
I have friendships where this is balanced and we only write every other month or so and we meet twice a year and it's all good.
Then I have friendships where this is not balanced and it is very very painfull because you can see the friendship falling apart, but noone wants to accelerate this falling apart, but it takes many years, often more than a decade until the conservation finally dies down completely.
This is the one clear sign for a failing friendship and I often notice it, but cannot prevent what follows.
And both sides are painful. The one where only I end up texting is obvious. I probably have more interest in the friendship than the friend (or the friend became a strong addict of something and can't be remedied after many tries over many years) so I try to tip and nudge every so often until I finally lose hope until a random meetup wherein the friend tells me we should totally meet up again but nothing changes afterwards even if the meeting actually takes place. The other side is when I had a good friend and suddenly I remember, that I forgot him. And this one is not painful during it's process because I don't even realise that the process in ongoing, but it is painful afterwards when I realise, that the failing of a previously great friendship is all my fault and I wonder how the friendship failed and I look at the message history and see that the other one always initiated and then initiated less and less.

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Pfhorrest
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Re: 2065: "Who Sends the First Text?"

Postby Pfhorrest » Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:18 pm UTC

My version of this chart has like, four people, and that automated segment. Slightly left of center: my mechanic. Center: my girlfriend. Way off to the right, in increasingly-right order: an aunt, automated crap, and Mom.
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Re: 2065: "Who Sends the First Text?"

Postby orthogon » Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:25 pm UTC

The title text wrote:I sort of wish my texting app showed the percentage next to each person


The difficulty in implementing this would be in deciding the timeout after which a conversation is considered to have finished and any further texts will be the "first" of a new conversation. Some text-based conversations happen in super-slowmo: it's one of the big advantages of the medium.

To do it really well, the app would need to work out when a new subject or thread starts, but that would require semantic analysis of the content.
xtifr wrote:... and orthogon merely sounds undecided.

andy01q
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Re: 2065: "Who Sends the First Text?"

Postby andy01q » Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:31 pm UTC

The number of messages each person sent would be a good approximation in many cases.
If a conversation lasts 5 minutes, but one person sent 3 messages, while the other one sent 30, then either one person is explaining something or the other person is mildly interested at most.

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Re: 2065: "Who Sends the First Text?"

Postby Pfhorrest » Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:51 pm UTC

size of texts is also important

some people send texts like this

one short thought at a time

just sentence fragments

without even capitalization or punctuation

not even clear like

when a sentence ends

and another begins

Meanwhile other people properly capitalize and punctuate complete sentences. Not just one sentence per text, but multiple-sentence paragraphs, all in one text. They compose their complete thoughts on a subject before sending it to be read all at once. It's helpful in that it can keep from being interrupted, but on the other hand it sometimes leaves the other party waiting on a [...] for an unreasonable length of time, followed by a wall of text.
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Re: 2065: "Who Sends the First Text?"

Postby DanD » Mon Oct 29, 2018 6:31 pm UTC

Also integrating other communications mediums. I often switch from a messenger or even e-mail to text when I shift from planning to coordination on the day of. And sometimes I go from receiving a phone call to texting, if I expect the individual to be busy. Or vice versa, if the texted question invites a more complex response.

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Re: 2065: "Who Sends the First Text?"

Postby Yablo » Mon Oct 29, 2018 9:05 pm UTC

If this is accurate, I may need to re-evaluate my marriage, because it means my wife is really only putting up with me.
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Re: 2065: "Who Sends the First Text?"

Postby ucim » Mon Oct 29, 2018 9:08 pm UTC

It's a problem with email "conversations" (threading by subject line, sorta). Because the conversation drifts (without changing the subject line), and then somebody changes the subject line (it's still the same conversation but not the same "conversation"), and somebody replies to a random email (just to get the email address) and the "conversation" continues while a new conversation starts. Which is why I think the subject line should be the last thing to be filled in.

Oh wait - this is that phone thing where, instead of speaking, you painfully try to create letters out of the numberpad (222, 55, 7, 44, oops...) and spend five minutes saying what you could say in fifteen seconds, while charging you 25c every time you press SEND. Kids these days! Maybe somebody will invent a device you could speak into, and it would turn your speech into a text... wouldn't that be mongo cool!

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Re: 2065: "Who Sends the First Text?"

Postby Flumble » Mon Oct 29, 2018 11:48 pm UTC

ucim wrote:Maybe somebody will invent a device you could speak into, and it would turn your speech into a text... wouldn't that be mongo cool!

Jeez, no, especially not the "hey personal assistant that tracks my every move so it can sell more targeted ads, please set a timer for one minute because egg timers are hard to operate" variety. However, I am waiting for that one device where you "speak" but you don't actually make a sound. This solves the problem of people being loud and obnoxious on the phone in public (people will buy a cool gadget even if it invades your larynx) and the problem of wanting to say (or blurting out) private/incriminating/company secret stuff while you're in public.

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da Doctah
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Re: 2065: "Who Sends the First Text?"

Postby da Doctah » Tue Oct 30, 2018 12:48 am UTC

I'm off the graph to the right. I wouldn't even have a texting feature available if not for the handful of people who can't think of any other way to communicate. (That goes for the guy who I contacted to repair my gate after it got pulled off the hinges, whose first response was "text me a picture of the damage so I'll know what I'm dealing with" as well as my chiropractor who sends me two identical texts the day before each appointment reminding me of the time.)

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Re: 2065: "Who Sends the First Text?"

Postby Bridge Troll » Tue Oct 30, 2018 1:06 am UTC

da Doctah wrote:I'm off the graph to the right. I wouldn't even have a texting feature available if not for the handful of people who can't think of any other way to communicate. (That goes for the guy who I contacted to repair my gate after it got pulled off the hinges, whose first response was "text me a picture of the damage so I'll know what I'm dealing with" as well as my chiropractor who sends me two identical texts the day before each appointment reminding me of the time.)


You say that like it's a bad thing that businesses have incorporated technology in ways that improve their business efficiency. Just because you have a distaste for texting doesn't mean that it's useless and that they "lack any other way to communicate" it's simply the *easiest* way for them to communicate, and I have to imagine the amount of missed appointments is drastically decreased for businesses that opt to automatically remind customers via text.

Mind you, I'm also not at all a fan of text messaging, but the most I'll do is gripe when someone rudely pulls out their phone and starts ignoring their company (or god forbid pulls out their phone while I'm in their passenger seat). It's just faux-elitist hogwash to condemn the technology, and everybody who dares to use it, as somehow inferior.

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Re: 2065: "Who Sends the First Text?"

Postby Soupspoon » Tue Oct 30, 2018 2:16 am UTC

andy01q wrote:The number of messages each person sent would be a good approximation in many cases.
If a conversation lasts 5 minutes, but one person sent 3 messages, while the other one sent 30, then either one person is explaining something or the other person is mildly interested at most.

You made me realise that perhaps some of my correspondents were seeing a threaded 'conversation', as opposed to the single-but-perhaps-serial messages as I see them (on my not-smart phone).

I've actually recently deleted a whole lot of back-messages, but currently I have in my Inbox:
  • A message from my bank, telling me about my bank balance (which I can't remember signing up for, but hey ho!)
  • Promotional message from mobile company, offering a deal I won't take up.
  • A mid-morning reminder to visit the Blood Donor place, later that day.
  • An early-morning reminder to visit the Blood Donor place.
  • A prior reminder about my donating appointment, a couple of days in advance.
  • Another (prior) offer from the mobile company.
  • A (prior) copy of the uppermost mobile offer.
  • A mobile top-up bonus confirmation message.
  • The mobile top-up confirmed that led to the above bonus.
  • A different mobile offer.
  • Another of the above mobile offers.
  • Thanks for sending feedback to a newspaper (that never got published).
  • Per my prior blood-doning (slightly more than two months ago), where my blood-products have been sent.
  • Per the prior prior blood-doning (almost five months ago), where that was sent.
  • Data regulations are changing, my mobile carrier wishes to tell me, they sent me a link to their GDPR policy (I haven't yet retyped that link into a web-enabled device).
  • Where my donation (8.5ish months ago) went to.
  • Where my donation (11 months ago) went.
  • An old friend got in touch after some time out of contact (led to meeting back up last Christmas)
  • Where my donation of 14ish months ago went.

Which paints me as somewhat sanguineous in my narcissism, above all. I've deleted many "Hi <Soupspoon>, can we chat about <something>" messages and the follow-ups. Though I didn't delete my Sent Items folder, so I could reconstruct some of those (and probably some followups) from the 69 messages in there over the last 14 months.

Let's see. Usually its they-ask-me-something, I say Ok, they may have followed up I confirm, they may or may not have thanked me (from people I 'work' with), though a handful were news/info from me, that may or may hot have elicited a reply (or been intended to). Twice I tried to get letters-to-the-editor to that paper's SMS box, neither was published. Four messages sent (initiated!) to relatives, over the 14 months of record, as I usually take/make voice calls in their cases. Two or three 'runs' of event planning that each seems to have featured seven or eight messages from me (differing initiators, me or them) while bashing out details that a single voice-call could have expedited far easier, but actually makes up 30 messages out of the 69 I sent. Seven sent to that friend (whose first and initiating message I saved, the rest I deleted) - none recently but there's been snail-mail birthday cards/etc instead.

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Re: 2065: "Who Sends the First Text?"

Postby Soupspoon » Tue Oct 30, 2018 2:24 am UTC

ucim wrote:Which is why I think the subject line should be the last thing to be filled in.
Also, enforced bottom-posting (or tween-posting, point by point, without the stupid Microsoftesque indentation formatting markup) to visually encourage useful editing down to relevant prior generations of quoting only. Banish top-posting (and the resulting top-posting pyramid) from the world. Even better, kill it with fire!

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So she tells me. ;)

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Re: 2065: "Who Sends the First Text?"

Postby Leovan » Tue Oct 30, 2018 5:31 am UTC

How does this graphic deal with group chats? I have three friends with whom I never talk except in that chat. But most conversations are between two of those friends for the most part, the third and I comment sometimes or respond when we're addressed directly.

andy01q
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Re: 2065: "Who Sends the First Text?"

Postby andy01q » Tue Oct 30, 2018 8:50 am UTC

Leovan wrote:How does this graphic deal with group chats?

It doesn't.
Flumble wrote:I am waiting for that one device where you "speak" but you don't actually make a sound.

This was probably meant jokingly, but this exact device was actually recently presented at microsoft research!
Try google for
SilentVoice: Unnoticeable Voice Input by Ingressive Speech
Of course invented in Japan - the country where speaking in a public train equals social suicide. (Noone ever does it.)

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Re: 2065: "Who Sends the First Text?"

Postby herbstschweigen » Tue Oct 30, 2018 11:28 am UTC

orthogon wrote:Some text-based conversations happen in super-slowmo: it's one of the big advantages of the medium.

Reminds me of early 90s, when I discovered a group of people who used the Greetings category in classified ads in a printed newspaper to communicate. From today's view a super slo-mo chat room, new messages once a week. But it was fun!
It's cooler up here.

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Re: 2065: "Who Sends the First Text?"

Postby Flumble » Tue Oct 30, 2018 1:01 pm UTC

andy01q wrote:
Flumble wrote:I am waiting for that one device where you "speak" but you don't actually make a sound.

This was probably meant jokingly, but this exact device was actually recently presented at microsoft research!
Try google for
SilentVoice: Unnoticeable Voice Input by Ingressive Speech
Of course invented in Japan - the country where speaking in a public train equals social suicide. (Noone ever does it.)

I was quite serious about it, so thanks for telling that it does exist now. :D

Let's see if I can make it happen again: I am waiting for a device that can compensate accelerations felt by your vestibular system. This hopefully solves motion sickness while e.g. being a passenger in a car. (I know galvanic vestibular stimulation exists, so someone "only" has to develop an implementation that makes you less dizzy while not making you fall over, making you bump into the car's interior, accidentally compensating your own head movements or making you sick because your body feels weird pressures.)

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Re: 2065: "Who Sends the First Text?"

Postby orthogon » Tue Oct 30, 2018 1:55 pm UTC

andy01q wrote:
Leovan wrote:How does this graphic deal with group chats?

It doesn't.
Flumble wrote:I am waiting for that one device where you "speak" but you don't actually make a sound.

This was probably meant jokingly, but this exact device was actually recently presented at microsoft research!
Try google for
SilentVoice: Unnoticeable Voice Input by Ingressive Speech
Of course invented in Japan - the country where speaking in a public train equals social suicide. (Noone ever does it.)

I was thinking it might work without you making any sound at all, just moving your (normal) mouth-parts, but it sounds like it uses a close-up microphone and you have to whisper. I'm wondering how well this would work for different languages. In particular, if the vocal chords aren't vibrating it would be unable to detect pitch, which could cause problems for tonal languages. Then again, humans listeners would have the same problem. Is it possible to whisper in Chinese? Thankfully the internets are there with the answer - apparently there is a thing about whispering and tonal languages, i.e. you can't whisper in the narrowest sense of completely unvoiced speech.
xtifr wrote:... and orthogon merely sounds undecided.

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Re: 2065: "Who Sends the First Text?"

Postby ucim » Tue Oct 30, 2018 2:50 pm UTC

andy01q wrote:
Flumble wrote:I am waiting for that one device where you "speak" but you don't actually make a sound.
This was probably meant jokingly, but this exact device was actually recently presented at microsoft research!
Try google for
SilentVoice: Unnoticeable Voice Input by Ingressive Speech
Also see the hushaphone Goes back to the days of the AT&T monopoly, where it was illegal to put a protective cover on your phonebook (a law that was enforced). And there's always the Cone of Silence

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Re: 2065: "Who Sends the First Text?"

Postby Old Bruce » Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:36 pm UTC

orthogon wrote:...
I was thinking it might work without you making any sound at all, just moving your (normal) mouth-parts, ...

Wow, flashed back to one of Asimov's Foundation stories. Silently talking would send the words to a receiver who could talk to you through tiny speakers in your skull.... read it decades back so I'm probably wrong.
Nostalgia is getting fuzzy.

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Re: 2065: "Who Sends the First Text?"

Postby da Doctah » Wed Oct 31, 2018 2:36 pm UTC

Old Bruce wrote:
orthogon wrote:...
I was thinking it might work without you making any sound at all, just moving your (normal) mouth-parts, ...

Wow, flashed back to one of Asimov's Foundation stories. Silently talking would send the words to a receiver who could talk to you through tiny speakers in your skull.... read it decades back so I'm probably wrong.
Nostalgia is getting fuzzy.


Don't remember if it was in the Foundation series, but it does occur in one of the Lije Bailey robot novels.

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Re: 2065: "Who Sends the First Text?"

Postby richP » Wed Oct 31, 2018 3:48 pm UTC

ucim wrote:.... Kids these days! Maybe somebody will invent a device you could speak into, and it would turn your speech into a text... wouldn't that be mongo cool!

Sweet idea! and then, let's invent something that will turn the text back into speech at the other end, that would be uber cool!

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Re: 2065: "Who Sends the First Text?"

Postby Old Bruce » Wed Oct 31, 2018 3:53 pm UTC

da Doctah wrote:
Old Bruce wrote:
orthogon wrote:...
I was thinking it might work without you making any sound at all, just moving your (normal) mouth-parts, ...

Wow, flashed back to one of Asimov's Foundation stories. Silently talking would send the words to a receiver who could talk to you through tiny speakers in your skull.... read it decades back so I'm probably wrong.
Nostalgia is getting fuzzy.


Don't remember if it was in the Foundation series, but it does occur in one of the Lije Bailey robot novels.

Okay, I devoured those too at about the same time. Easy to conflate in my head now.

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Re: 2065: "Who Sends the First Text?"

Postby Soupspoon » Wed Oct 31, 2018 4:11 pm UTC

Apropos of nothing much:
Soupspoon wrote:
  • A mid-morning reminder to visit the Blood Donor place, later that day.
  • An early-morning reminder to visit the Blood Donor place.
  • A prior reminder about my donating appointment, a couple of days in advance.
  • (…)
  • Per my prior blood-doning (slightly more than two months ago), where my blood-products have been sent.
  • Per the prior prior blood-doning (almost five months ago), where that was sent.
  • (…)

You can now prepend that list with the knowledge of where the last pint or so of blood went.

I think I might stick some red pins in a map. It looks like I'm mostly being redistributed across the nation throughout a big 125-mile-aside triangle surrounding my location, looking at the more extreme destinations they gave me. Which is a lot of ground covered. I wonder if I've hit any geohash points along the way?

And I'm not texting them back, before you ask.

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Re: 2065: "Who Sends the First Text?"

Postby candybrie4zo » Thu Nov 01, 2018 5:40 pm UTC

da Doctah wrote:
Old Bruce wrote:
orthogon wrote:...
I was thinking it might work without you making any sound at all, just moving your (normal) mouth-parts, ...

Wow, flashed back to one of Asimov's Foundation stories. Silently talking would send the words to a receiver who could talk to you through tiny speakers in your skull.... read it decades back so I'm probably wrong.
Nostalgia is getting fuzzy.


Don't remember if it was in the Foundation series, but it does occur in one of the Lije Bailey robot novels.


It also comes up in the later Ender's Game novels as how Ender talks to Jane most of the time.


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