2112: "Night Shift"

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Quizatzhaderac
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2112: "Night Shift"

Postby Quizatzhaderac » Fri Feb 15, 2019 5:38 pm UTC

Image

Title text: Help, I set my white balance wrong and suddenly everyone is screaming at each other about whether they've been to Colorado.

This is a mellow comic. I haven't been to Colorado. I own a TV. I am not a big ocean. I is not a prime number, but it's not a big deal if somebody treats it like it is.
The thing about recursion problems is that they tend to contain other recursion problems.

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Pfhorrest
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Re: 2112: "Night Shift"

Postby Pfhorrest » Fri Feb 15, 2019 6:10 pm UTC

In the context of angry (or not) internet arguments, I half expected "white balance" to be some kind of race pun (about the demographics of Colorado?), but I can't find a way to make that work.
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Re: 2112: "Night Shift"

Postby jello34543 » Fri Feb 15, 2019 6:56 pm UTC

Hmm... Let's see.

I've been to Colorado, within the last week even (Yay, Skiing!).

I've seen both the Pacific and Atlantic Oceans, but swam in neither (I did kayak in the Strait of Juan de Fuca once). I have swam in the largest freshwater lake by surface area though (Michigan-Huron)

I own a TV, but didn't for a while after college. Part of me wishes I'd stuck with the no TV lifestyle. (Not-so-fun fact: My lack of TV (and habit of not listening to the radio at home) meant that I found out about the Sept. 11th attacks from the tech installing my DSL)

I possess several prime numbers, in the form of RSA keys. No, I won't tell you which ones.

Mrspaceowl
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Re: 2112: "Night Shift"

Postby Mrspaceowl » Fri Feb 15, 2019 6:58 pm UTC

Quizatzhaderac wrote:Title text: Help, I set my white balance wrong and suddenly everyone is screaming at each other about whether they've been to Colorado.


Surely this is just describing Wikipedia talk pages.

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Soupspoon
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Re: 2112: "Night Shift"

Postby Soupspoon » Fri Feb 15, 2019 7:07 pm UTC

I've only ever seen (some bits of) the Atlantic¹, and it is certainly bigger than a toaster.
I don't have a TV.
1 is not a prime number. There, I said it. But now I'm torn over whether i is a prime number!
I have never been to Colorado, but I have been to me.



¹ And it took less time to cross it than it has in crossing the North Sea, but that may not be directly comparable.

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da Doctah
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Re: 2112: "Night Shift"

Postby da Doctah » Fri Feb 15, 2019 8:46 pm UTC

Soupspoon wrote:1 is not a prime number. There, I said it. But now I'm torn over whether i is a prime number!


Posited: ½ and -1 are prime numbers. Discuss.

speising
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Re: 2112: "Night Shift"

Postby speising » Fri Feb 15, 2019 9:02 pm UTC

unfortunately, since the definition of prime number starts with
A prime number is a natural number greater than 1
there's not a lot to discuss...

airdrik
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Re: 2112: "Night Shift"

Postby airdrik » Fri Feb 15, 2019 10:19 pm UTC

I like the premise. A lot of time is wasted reading other people's strong opinions on various subjects which likely contributes to increasing the likeliness you will keep reading additional opinions, resulting in more time spent staring at a phone screen instead of trying to sleep. Additionally the processing of the opinions is likely to increase brain activity which also contributes to making it hard to fall asleep.
If on the other hand an app intercepted them and (using machine learning/AI/whatever) replaced the strong/extreme opinions with safe/lame opinions, then you would be more likely to get bored and put the phone down so that you can fall asleep.
Additionally, such an app would probably make the world a better place as we wouln't get caught up as much in people's horrible opinions.

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Pfhorrest
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Re: 2112: "Night Shift"

Postby Pfhorrest » Fri Feb 15, 2019 10:41 pm UTC

I've only ever seen the Pacific (IRL), but they're all technically the same contiguous body of water anyway so that counts. How do you even define an ocean anyway? Seems about as problematic as defining a continent if not more so. (At least we know that there are definitely multiple continents by any definition).

I've been through Colorado, though I'm not sure that counts as to.

I have a TV, but I don't have TV.

And 24 is even less prime than 25, because it's antiprime.
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chenille
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Re: 2112: "Night Shift"

Postby chenille » Fri Feb 15, 2019 11:01 pm UTC

Soupspoon wrote:1 is not a prime number. There, I said it. But now I'm torn over whether i is a prime number!

It's not. If you want to generalize prime numbers, it makes sense to look at how commutative rings work, and then you find that they're really the integer version of prime elements. Things like ±1 and ±i work very differently and have been given the name units. It's just hard to notice them as a distinct category when you've only been looking at natural numbers, since there 1 is the only example.

Pfhorrest wrote:I've only ever seen the Pacific (IRL), but they're all technically the same contiguous body of water anyway so that counts. How do you even define an ocean anyway?

They're all connected so defining boundaries between them is arbitrary, but there is still enough land between them that they can have different properties. Notably the Atlantic is saltier than the Pacific, because water can evaporate and cross over Central America but the salt can't. So it would be hard to give a rigorous definition, but it definitely can be useful to think of them as conjoined individuals rather than a single whole, and isn't that the point of naming things?

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Re: 2112: "Night Shift"

Postby fluffysheap » Fri Feb 15, 2019 11:52 pm UTC

I live in Colorado, and therefore have a very strong opinion on whether I have been there.

I have flown over both the Atlantic and Pacific oceans, and while supposedly the Pacific is bigger, the Atlantic seemed bigger because I flew all the way across instead of just going a little way out and coming back. I couldn't see the opposite side of either one, though.

If you add up the ASCII values of the letters in my name, they might be a prime number. I mean, I haven't checked.

I have a TV. Several, in fact. I should probably get rid of some.

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Re: 2112: "Night Shift"

Postby rmsgrey » Sat Feb 16, 2019 12:09 am UTC

speising wrote:unfortunately, since the definition of prime number starts with
A prime number is a natural number greater than 1
there's not a lot to discuss...


A definition of prime number starts that way. There are a number of definitions that all produce the same set of numbers, but not all of them specify "greater than 1" (some say things like "non-unit" which means "not 1" in context; others say things like "has exactly 2 factors" which requires a bit more discussion to apply to 1)

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GlassHouses
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Re: 2112: "Night Shift"

Postby GlassHouses » Sat Feb 16, 2019 12:11 am UTC

Since prime numbers are usually understood to be real numbers, i can't be prime in the usual sense. It's also not a Gaussian Prime. Rather, it is one of the four units in the ring of Gaussian Integers (complex numbers where the real and imaginary parts are both integers). Fun fact: 2 is also not a Gaussian Prime, because 2 = (1+i)(1-i).

Having flown across the Atlantic many times, I can agree that it is big. Very big. Jet airliners are very fast and it still takes them hours to get across. I don't know about the Pacific, though. I have seen the Pacific from California but I've never flown across. Everyone says it's much bigger than the Atlantic, and it certainly looks that way when I look at a globe, so I'll take their word for it.

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Re: 2112: "Night Shift"

Postby KarenRei » Sat Feb 16, 2019 1:21 am UTC

I set my white balance wrong and suddenly everyone is screaming at each other about whether they've been to Colorado.


********* I'VE STOPPED AT THE AIRPORT IN DENVER, MOTHERF***ER!!!!! *********

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Re: 2112: "Night Shift"

Postby Soot Leopard » Sat Feb 16, 2019 2:13 am UTC

I don't have strong opinions. And I'll annihilate anyone who says that I do!
:lol:
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Solra Bizna
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Re: 2112: "Night Shift"

Postby Solra Bizna » Sat Feb 16, 2019 3:00 am UTC

fluffysheap wrote:If you add up the ASCII values of the letters in my name, they might be a prime number. I mean, I haven't checked.

I have (now). It is. Presumably this is why you chose not to be named "fluffysheep", which does not share this property.

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Cougar Allen
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Re: 2112: "Night Shift"

Postby Cougar Allen » Sat Feb 16, 2019 4:41 am UTC

Listen to songs with low intensity opinions:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1uSxhFcJn4

Read the Dull Men's Club website:
https://www.dullmensclub.com/

ijuin
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Re: 2112: "Night Shift"

Postby ijuin » Sat Feb 16, 2019 2:28 pm UTC

GlassHouses wrote:Having flown across the Atlantic many times, I can agree that it is big. Very big. Jet airliners are very fast and it still takes them hours to get across. I don't know about the Pacific, though. I have seen the Pacific from California but I've never flown across. Everyone says it's much bigger than the Atlantic, and it certainly looks that way when I look at a globe, so I'll take their word for it.

I have flown across the Pacific several times, and it takes eleven hours to go from the west coast of the USA to Japan, and about thirteen to fourteen to reach Beijing, Hong Kong, or other coastal Chinese cities.

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Re: 2112: "Night Shift"

Postby Showsni » Sat Feb 16, 2019 3:11 pm UTC

None of those statements really seem given to inducing opinions in the first place. I mean, I either have or haven't been to Colorado; there's not much to have an opinion about.

I'd like to see what the app does to statements that people do have strong opinions about. If someone started with "Abortions should only be carried out if the mother and/or baby's lives are at threat" or "It's OO Gauge, not 00 Gauge" where would we end up?

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Re: 2112: "Night Shift"

Postby hjordis » Sat Feb 16, 2019 5:36 pm UTC

fluffysheap wrote:I live in Colorado, and therefore have a very strong opinion on whether I have been there.

I grew up in Colorado and don't remember much from before it, so it might be more accurate to say I've been away from Colorado.

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Re: 2112: "Night Shift"

Postby sonar1313 » Sat Feb 16, 2019 11:38 pm UTC

fluffysheap wrote:I live in Colorado, and therefore have a very strong opinion on whether I have been there.

I have flown over both the Atlantic and Pacific oceans, and while supposedly the Pacific is bigger, the Atlantic seemed bigger because I flew all the way across instead of just going a little way out and coming back. I couldn't see the opposite side of either one, though.

If you add up the ASCII values of the letters in my name, they might be a prime number. I mean, I haven't checked.

I have a TV. Several, in fact. I should probably get rid of some.


I have crossed both the Atlantic and Pacific on a ship, and stood on both opposite shores of both, and swam in both, and the Atlantic is very very large indeed but the Pacific is colossal. They both look the same from the middle, though.

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Re: 2112: "Night Shift"

Postby sonar1313 » Sat Feb 16, 2019 11:50 pm UTC

Showsni wrote:None of those statements really seem given to inducing opinions in the first place. I mean, I either have or haven't been to Colorado; there's not much to have an opinion about.


Talk to enough people who do enough traveling and strong opinions tend to result, about what exactly constitutes "having been to" somewhere. I say I have been to 45 states. Others disagree, since I've spent all of 25 minutes driving through one of them and two others come only by having connecting flights through them. I won't count a place if I've only seen it from the water or the air, so I've never been to Egypt but have been to Arizona, even though two trips and 36 hours through the Suez Canal is considerably more time spent than half an hour on the interstate in the northwest corner of Arizona - in the dark, no less.

I like to think that one of the people in the comic has connected through Denver International Airport, but she doesn't count that so her answer is no.

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Re: 2112: "Night Shift"

Postby Heimhenge » Sat Feb 16, 2019 11:53 pm UTC

I once gazed south from a cruise ship docking at Anchorage, Alaska, and pondered just how far south from there the Pacific extended before again reaching land. Had to check Google Maps to know for sure, but it was like half the frikkin' circumference of Earth from there to Antarctica. Some 20k km.

That's a shitload of water.

Thinking about that ultimately led me to the question: What's the longest great circle path on Earth that can be traveled over water. The answer may surprise you: https://www.technologyreview.com/s/6110 ... t-hitting/

They also show the longest route over land. I would have guessed the Americas but it turns out to be across Asia. That narrow isthmus in Panama screws it up for the Americas.

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Re: 2112: "Night Shift"

Postby da Doctah » Sun Feb 17, 2019 12:23 am UTC

sonar1313 wrote:I've never been to Egypt but have been to Arizona, even though two trips and 36 hours through the Suez Canal is considerably more time spent than half an hour on the interstate in the northwest corner of Arizona - in the dark, no less.


Thing about that interstate, though. You can't get to any other part of Arizona from there without leaving the state.

I've been to Kansas exactly once. That state's entire length of Route 66. All thirteen miles of it.

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Re: 2112: "Night Shift"

Postby da Doctah » Sun Feb 17, 2019 12:36 am UTC

Heimhenge wrote:What's the longest great circle path on Earth that can be traveled over water. The answer may surprise you: https://www.technologyreview.com/s/6110 ... t-hitting/

They also show the longest route over land. I would have guessed the Americas but it turns out to be across Asia. That narrow isthmus in Panama screws it up for the Americas.


A few years ago, a Usenet forum I still participate in had a contest to find the two points with the greatest discrepancy between great-circle distance and driving distance (as confirmed by Google Maps). Turned out to be a couple of points on opposite rims of the Grand Canyon (36.222134, -113.144522 to 36.157896, -113.101963). Five miles (tweakable to 3.5 by following a couple of roads to their ends) vs 439 miles.

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Re: 2112: "Night Shift"

Postby Mikeski » Sun Feb 17, 2019 1:29 am UTC

Heimhenge wrote:That narrow isthmus in Panama screws it up for the Americas.


Yup. Never mind crossing both Americas; there's no straight line across land from one end of Panama to the other. It's S-shaped. And that's ignoring the canal's existence.

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Re: 2112: "Night Shift"

Postby rmsgrey » Sun Feb 17, 2019 7:09 am UTC

sonar1313 wrote:
Showsni wrote:None of those statements really seem given to inducing opinions in the first place. I mean, I either have or haven't been to Colorado; there's not much to have an opinion about.


Talk to enough people who do enough traveling and strong opinions tend to result, about what exactly constitutes "having been to" somewhere. I say I have been to 45 states. Others disagree, since I've spent all of 25 minutes driving through one of them and two others come only by having connecting flights through them. I won't count a place if I've only seen it from the water or the air, so I've never been to Egypt but have been to Arizona, even though two trips and 36 hours through the Suez Canal is considerably more time spent than half an hour on the interstate in the northwest corner of Arizona - in the dark, no less.

I like to think that one of the people in the comic has connected through Denver International Airport, but she doesn't count that so her answer is no.


I've been to 6 of 8 capitals in Australia (7 state, 1 national - I missed Perth and Darwin) but two only to change transport, so never left the terminal (except to depart the city).

So I'd probably say I'd visited 3 of the capitals. The remaining one, I attended a multi-day event, but didn't leave the venue, so I didn't really interact with the city at all.

So, yeah, there's a range of possible levels of "being to" places, from being physically present somewhere within the borders of the location, to having actually experienced distinctive and characteristic aspects of life there (which, in turn, can scale up to counting as living there rather than just visiting).

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Re: 2112: "Night Shift"

Postby gcgcgcgc » Sun Feb 17, 2019 10:18 am UTC

Mikeski wrote:
Heimhenge wrote:That narrow isthmus in Panama screws it up for the Americas.


Yup. Never mind crossing both Americas; there's no straight line across land from one end of Panama to the other. It's S-shaped. And that's ignoring the canal's existence.


Also there are no roads through the bottom section and it's supposedly highly dangerous to cross. Not that any of that matters to this thought experiment, though it probably would if you tried to traverse something approximating it in real life.

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Re: 2112: "Night Shift"

Postby YellowYeti » Mon Feb 18, 2019 1:07 pm UTC

chenille wrote:Notably the Atlantic is saltier than the Pacific, because water can evaporate and cross over Central America but the salt can't.


Why is the water crossing Central America only in that direction? Being in the northern hemisphere, doesn't it tend to go in the opposite direction?

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Re: 2112: "Night Shift"

Postby Soupspoon » Mon Feb 18, 2019 2:15 pm UTC

Because when it sends its droplets, it's not sending it's best. It's sending moisture with a lot of problems. But some, I assume, is good water!


(Prevailing winds don't switch between east/west over the equator, because the forces flip on the winds the same as the way the "from down above the respective pole" rotation flips. But Hadley Cells, etc, mean the wind prevails differently broadly around the equator compared with the higher-latitudes. Look up the Three Cell Model.)

(edit: Or here.… https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prevailing_winds )

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Re: 2112: "Night Shift"

Postby GlassHouses » Mon Feb 18, 2019 3:31 pm UTC

Also, water doesn't get blown across from one ocean to the other just anywhere. This is only a significant effect where the land it's being blown across is narrow, i.e. Central America... and that's in the tropics, where prevailing winds blow east to west.

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Flumble
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Re: 2112: "Night Shift"

Postby Flumble » Mon Feb 18, 2019 4:01 pm UTC

Does that also mean the Atlantic has a measurably lower ocean surface?

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Re: 2112: "Night Shift"

Postby airdrik » Mon Feb 18, 2019 5:37 pm UTC

Actually yes, though I don't know how much of it would be attributed to this effect, but The Permanent Service for Mean Sea Level (which sounds like they are trying to be important) says the Pacific side is 20 cm higher than the Atlantic side with explanations and stuff.

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YellowYeti
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Re: 2112: "Night Shift"

Postby YellowYeti » Tue Feb 19, 2019 8:22 am UTC

Soupspoon wrote:Because when it sends its droplets, it's not sending it's best. It's sending moisture with a lot of problems. But some, I assume, is good water!


(Prevailing winds don't switch between east/west over the equator, because the forces flip on the winds the same as the way the "from down above the respective pole" rotation flips. But Hadley Cells, etc, mean the wind prevails differently broadly around the equator compared with the higher-latitudes. Look up the Three Cell Model.)

(edit: Or here.… https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prevailing_winds )


Cool - thanks for that.
But wait, wasn't the Sahara supposed to be caused when the isthmus of Panama closed up? But the winds are going in the wrong direction!

This climate stuff is complicated


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