0437: "SUV"

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predatormc
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Re: "SUV" Discussion

Postby predatormc » Mon Jun 16, 2008 7:21 am UTC

Near me we are at £1.31/litre for diesel, that's $9.68/gallon. 50p of that goes to fuel duty, the rest goes to tax and delivery, leaving the product at about 46p. I'd like to know the breakdown of where the money goes in the US.

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Re: "SUV" Discussion

Postby gormster » Mon Jun 16, 2008 7:27 am UTC

joee wrote:In Australia, AU$1.56/litre = $AU7.10/US gallon = approx $7.55/US gallon.

Can someone tell me what the M and P stand for? I assume D=Diesel?


ha! where the hell are you living? i haven't found anywhere in Sydney where it's under $1.60/L. Most places are up around $1.68.

FTR, that's 1.68 * 3.785 (litres to the gallon) = AU$6.35/Gallon... I think your maths is wrong, joee. In fact it's definitely wrong because you somehow made the Aussie dollar more valuable than the US dollar. Still, it's about US$5.96/Gal.
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zed0
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Re: "SUV" Discussion

Postby zed0 » Mon Jun 16, 2008 7:28 am UTC

everyone wrote:This is why I love my ...

This is why I love my bike, 8 years and still reliably getting me where I want to go.

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joee
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Re: "SUV" Discussion

Postby joee » Mon Jun 16, 2008 7:35 am UTC

gormster wrote:
joee wrote:In Australia, AU$1.56/litre = $AU7.10/US gallon = approx $7.55/US gallon.

Can someone tell me what the M and P stand for? I assume D=Diesel?


ha! where the hell are you living? i haven't found anywhere in Sydney where it's under $1.60/L. Most places are up around $1.68.

I live in Canberra. That was the price last Tuesday night. I can take a photo of my receipt for you? :P

FTR, that's 1.68 * 3.785 (litres to the gallon) = AU$6.35/Gallon... I think your maths is wrong, joee. In fact it's definitely wrong because you somehow made the Aussie dollar more valuable than the US dollar. Still, it's about US$5.96/Gal.

Doh, just checked my source and my conversion was from the UK gallon. That'll teach me for not checking my sources properly.
And i got the US to AU dollar conversion the wrong way around.

The correct figure for my price is US$5.55/US gallon
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Re: "SUV" Discussion

Postby GCM » Mon Jun 16, 2008 7:39 am UTC

I can't drive! In your faces, all of you! :D
That's essentially the bus for me. Or my bike, but only for nearby places.

Oh yes, apparently, in Malaysia it's about 2.70 per litre, which is about 10.22 per gallon, which converted to USD (about 3.25) is $3.10-3.20 a gallon. Dayum.
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Re: "SUV" Discussion

Postby Vasily » Mon Jun 16, 2008 7:48 am UTC

Prices here in Israel are about 7nis per liter, which is about 7.8usd per gallon.

I don't drive a car anyway, yet. Cycling to the institute is pretty nice, too.

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Zak McKracken
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Re: "SUV" Discussion

Postby Zak McKracken » Mon Jun 16, 2008 8:01 am UTC

AlwaysRelated wrote:
Spoiler:


Yay for the BTAF reference!

On Fuel prices:
On another note: In Germany, 8,4$/gallon (read: 1,45 Euros/litre) is the current price for Diesel, 1,48 for "normal" gas. But that's how economics work. The stuff gets rarer => it gets more expensive. And now everyone's forced to watch what their output. The sad thing about this is that anyone who can afford an SUV doesn't really have a problem paying these prices, it seems.

On efficient cars:
My Diesel uses less fuel (4.5l/100km => 52mpg) than a Prius. In fact, hybrid technology will only rduce a non-diesel engine's consumption to that of a diesel engine. But then, in the US you don't get the kind of diesel quality we're used to over here, so I guess it's actually no bad choice to drive a Prius in the US. By now, you can get a BMW that's overpowered on my terms but still has 52mpg.
But then there's nothing more effective than going smaller. The Smart Diesel uses about 3.3l/100km, that's 71mpg, and there's no reason to think this can't be done better.

On efficient driving:
Being an efficiency nerd, I've done some experiments (with my own car): Going up to about 65 miles, the consumption stays pretty low, but then aerodynamics come into play, and at 75, you can already see the impact. Above that, consumption increasis quadratic. Below 65miles (110km/h) it's most important to always use the highest gear possible (hooray for manual shifting ... though I'm told some automatic gearboxes can be efficient at times ...). So for my 5-gear-car the most efficient speed is at about 55 to 60 km/h (34 to 37mph), because below that I can't use the 5th gear.

On electric skateboards:
Sorry, but wherever you go with a skateboard, I'll go with a bike faster and with less consumption.
Using Grid power for driving only shifts the place where the fuel is burned (or Uranium for that matter, but Uranium's also finite and its prize has increased more than that of oil in the last 10 years).
Big exception: If you can use the batteries of you vehicle as a buffer to use regenerative energy like wind or solar power at the time when it is produced, the complete system becomes a lot more efficient.
That's not touching the fact, of course, that an electric skateboard still has its own distinct advantages not directly related to efficient transportation ...

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Re: "SUV" Discussion

Postby MrInternet » Mon Jun 16, 2008 8:03 am UTC

AlwaysRelated wrote:I find it kind of humourous that all of the people posting here are American's (as far as I can tell) complaining about ~$4.30 per gallon. We're paying $5.10 a gallon (after conversion from American gallons to litres, no exchange rate) where I live, even more expensive once you get into Vancouver, easily $5.50+.

Not bashing American's in the least, just putting things in perspective.

Everytime I talk to my friends, and they're discussing gas prices, I have to bring this little tidbit of information up. It seems that while we cry for gas being at $4 per gallon no one realizes that we have also some of the cheapest fuel prices compared to other nations. Although I feel pretty bad because my dad works in the IT department for Chevron, you know one of the evil oil empires.

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Re: "SUV" Discussion

Postby stormoftara » Mon Jun 16, 2008 8:29 am UTC

That seems like an expensive but very amusing way to confuse people.

Of course gas is like $4.30 where I live so I can barely afford to fill up my car. But before you say I'm complaining...I work at Taco Bell, I don't make a lot of money to begin with. It's always bad when you realize that you used to be able to spend all that extra money on Food...T_T

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Re: "SUV" Discussion

Postby Dobblesworth » Mon Jun 16, 2008 8:49 am UTC

I think petrol prices in my area (UK) are between £1.10 (basic unleaded pertrol) and £1.30 (diesel), which works out to at maximum about US$8.00-9.00. Of course, this is a country where the average commuter doesn't have to spend 5hrs charging across halfway a state on the interstate just to get to work every morning, so I suppose in real terms, it's about the same. I'm currently about 1/3 of the way to being fully able to drive, in terms of lesson time spent behind a wheel before my test and getting my license, and I have no desire to buy a car when I pass, at least not for a few years, mainly down to the fact I'm off to uni later this year and inner-city traffic there is ridiculous, but also the high petrol pricing I'd much rather go without paying for. Public transport provision is fairly efficient in my area, so I usually take the bus most places.

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Re: "SUV" Discussion

Postby antinea » Mon Jun 16, 2008 9:05 am UTC

I'm in the Netherlands, where the fuel prices are more or less the same as what Zak described for Germany.
Prices have increased a bit in recent weeks but they've been ridiculously high for years anyway.
In fact, Dutch car owners have gotten used to the prices, so that - unlike in the US - over here the popularity of SUV is not decreasing but equal or increasing.

We do have gouvernment campaigns in the media for efficient driving with advice on speeds and when to switch gears (most cars have hand gear).
People who get a lease car (fuel included) from their work usually don't make any effort to drive efficiently. On the other hand, many car owners do. There have been pools of co-workers competing who gets the best mpg (km/liter).
Most households have two cars: one is the lease car or a luxury car, the other one a small and energy efficient gas or diesel car.
I don't see many Priuses on the roads here, i think because a small car is just as cheap in daily use but cheaper to get in the first place.
I wonder why not more people use lpg. Does anyone know? It gets less mileage but costs about 1/4 of gas.

For myself, I like driving my ugly 1994 suzuki swift. I get about 550 km out of my 30 liters of gas, can't be bother to convert that to mpg. I live in a rural area where there is an embarrassing lack of public transport - but with all those fields the distances are a bit too much to go cycling. Also, I work in hospitality and as a woman don't like to be out on my bike alone at 3am.

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Re: "SUV" Discussion

Postby Emu* » Mon Jun 16, 2008 10:01 am UTC

mm1145 wrote:my favrot fact from top gear was thatfact that a good desail estate gets better mpg than a prias


Way to spell your first post...


The Prius only works out more economical than an equivalent diesel car if you stick to city/urban driving. The moment you start cruising highways it's diesel FTW.


And I can run my Peugeot off WVO, so there!
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Re: "SUV" Discussion

Postby Unforgiven » Mon Jun 16, 2008 10:28 am UTC

Trains ain't perfect, but since I live in Tokyo I can't think of a single reason to get a car. Cars are expensive to buy and maintain. The fuel is expensive. Tokyo streets are narrow, traffic is murder, and parking is impossible and expensive.

Sure, trains are crowded, but they're cheaper, they're nearly always on time, and I get lots of reading done. :)
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Re: "SUV" Discussion

Postby Rookie » Mon Jun 16, 2008 10:28 am UTC

Can't just the whole world adapt the SI-system? And join the € ... :D This would make discussions like this so much easier (for me)

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Re: "SUV" Discussion

Postby micco » Mon Jun 16, 2008 10:44 am UTC

Gas prices are insane here. 95 octane costs about 1,541€/litre, that would be about 8,96$/gallon. Fith prices like that, I simply can`t afford to drive a car, so I`m selling it.
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Re: "SUV" Discussion

Postby elbekko » Mon Jun 16, 2008 10:55 am UTC

Last time I went to fuel up it was €1.3/l, probably alot more now.
I drive a Range Rover Classic which I get >26mpg (9l/100km) with. Filling up is costly, but it's well worth the great drive.

Oh, and if I spot anyone saying this is an SUV, I'll personally come and kill you. It's far from sporty :P

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Re: "SUV" Discussion

Postby TheHand » Mon Jun 16, 2008 10:55 am UTC

Green is the new black.

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Re: "SUV" Discussion

Postby Noam Samuel » Mon Jun 16, 2008 11:01 am UTC

Whenever I go by a gas station, I gently caress the frame of my Trek road bike.

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Re: "SUV" Discussion

Postby Game_boy » Mon Jun 16, 2008 11:24 am UTC

Yes, in the UK it's near $10/gallon. $4 would be fantastic!
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Re: "SUV" Discussion

Postby ST47 » Mon Jun 16, 2008 12:02 pm UTC

xkcd wrote:Alt-text: Electric skateboards, by cost, get the equivalent of about 300 miles per gallon. Lithium batteries just need to get cheaper.

You know how many miles you can WALK with a gallon of gas?

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Re: "SUV" Discussion

Postby Random832 » Mon Jun 16, 2008 12:17 pm UTC

1337geek wrote:In other news, yesterday I saw a gas station with $3.999. I think I can safely say I'll see it above $4 as I drive to work tomorrow.


I don't know - here (= central Indiana) it stayed at 3.999 for about three weeks before going up. The gas stations seemed reluctant to cross that line.

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Re: "SUV" Discussion

Postby InsertUsernameHere » Mon Jun 16, 2008 12:18 pm UTC

did anyone else read that article saying that (according to one study) if everyone started walking everywhere, there wouldn't be that much of a reduction environmental/wallet impact, because of the costs in transporting the extra food? Wish i could remember where it was (and yes it was mostly environmental).

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Re: "SUV" Discussion

Postby Random832 » Mon Jun 16, 2008 12:21 pm UTC

Mmmm, Pi wrote:I remember the days when it was under 80p a litre and people still complained about it then.


80p a litre?

3.79 litres in a (US) gallon, and even when the dollar didn't suck, a pound was around $1.70 - that's about $5.15 a gallon. I feel sorry for you (yeah, I know most of it's taxes, but still). How much is it now?

predatormc wrote:Near me we are at £1.31/litre for diesel, that's $9.68/gallon. 50p of that goes to fuel duty, the rest goes to tax and delivery, leaving the product at about 46p. I'd like to know the breakdown of where the money goes in the US.


This inspired me to look it up.

Gasoline: The federal tax is $0.184/gallon (£0.025/L) and the average state tax is $0.286/gallon (£0.039/L). In my state, the [state] tax is $0.317/gallon (£0.043/L), so with gas prices of $4.159 (£0.562/L), $3.658 of that (£0.494/L) is the actual fuel price.

Diesel: The federal tax is $0.244/gallon (£0.033/L) and the average state tax is $0.292/gallon (£0.039/L). In my state, the [state] tax is $0.448/gallon (£0.061/L), so with diesel prices of $4.959 (£0.670/L), $4.267 of that (£0.576/L) is the actual fuel price.

I don't know what you mean by 'delivery' - transportation costs?
Last edited by Random832 on Mon Jun 16, 2008 12:36 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: "SUV" Discussion

Postby frymaster » Mon Jun 16, 2008 12:32 pm UTC

anyone have any recent info on diesel/hydraulic hybrids? The idea is a diesel engine pressurises a hydraulic canister which powers the car. First point is that the engine can operate at its most efficient speed all the time but the main point is that the tank can also be pressurised by regenerative braking.

I seem to recall the was a fairly small (relative to the cost of the car) cost of retrofitting this is, and a small (relative to the fuel savings) increase in maintainance costs, but finding reliable up to date info is quite hard.

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Re: "SUV" Discussion

Postby sithpirateknight » Mon Jun 16, 2008 12:46 pm UTC

Instead of driving/biking/walking, I unicycle everywhere. I find it's a little faster than walking and it makes people turn their heads.
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Re: "SUV" Discussion

Postby Gobo » Mon Jun 16, 2008 12:48 pm UTC

ST47 wrote:You know how many miles you can WALK with a gallon of gas?

Not many. A gallon of gas is heavy. I'd leave the gas behind if I were walking.

Before I went back to grad school, I had a 50 mile daily commute to and from work. We could have moved closer to my work except that there was no freakin' town up there so my wife would have had the same commute in the opposite direction. (That and I didn't like that job enough to buy a house in a nonexistent town for it.) My car (a Saturn) was getting 34-36 miles per gallon consistently. I think I was using some of the hypermileage tricks mentioned upthread.

I got very good at sensing trends in gas prices. Here was my strategy:
* The trick when gas prices are going up is to bite the bullet and fill your tank today, it will only be more expensive tomorrow. When gas prices were going up, I would fill my tank both going to and from work. Yes, this means I was only buying $2 worth of gas at a time. But this is about dollar-cost-averaging and buying as much gas at the lowest price possible.
* I used a credit card of the station (i.e. a Citgo card at a Citgo station, Mobil at a Mobil etc.) since the corporation doesn't charge card transaction fees to the gas station owner. This is important, because the retail margins on gasoline are very low and the gas station owners get screwed by the credit card issuers. Obviously pay the card off monthly because one service charge would cancel any savings made.
* When gas was going down in price, I'd wait until the last possible moment to fill up. People strangely tend to do the opposite; avoid buying gas when prices go up, run out and have to fill up at the highest price or go on a buying spree when the price dips slightly rather than wait for it to bottom out.
* Also, I can't confirm this, but apparently filling up in the early morning is better than later due to thermal expansion; you allegedly get more fuel when it is cooler (perhaps some of the physics/chemistry geeks here can confirm if this makes a real difference).

What are the chances we can get Americans to learn to drive a stick-shift instead of automatics? That would make a difference (obviously continuously-variable transmissions are different).

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Re: "SUV" Discussion

Postby Steve the Pocket » Mon Jun 16, 2008 1:30 pm UTC

sk8ingdom wrote:Typically if I want to "excite" hybrid owners, I just start talking about the second law of thermodynamics, how bad batteries are for the environment, where electricity actually comes from, how much emission actually come from cars, or how Malthus was actually right, etc, haha. I love dinner parties where I don't know people very well.

I'm surprised nobody called this yet. The electricity in a hybrid doesn't come from the grid; the battery is recharged by the engine while it's idling and braking. So it's basically free energy.

Granted, a small H2 fuel cell would be a better method of storing this energy than a heavy ol' battery, but it would also be a lot more expensive to produce.

Incidentally, I've crunched the numbers on a Prius vs. its closest non-hybrid counterpart, the Toyota Matrix/Pontiac Vibe twins, based on the fuel-mileage estimates in Consumer Reports. At current American fuel prices, you would pay off the price difference after roughly 70,000 miles, assuming you don't have to have the battery replaced. Not bad for a car that costs thousands more than its all-gasoline counterpart.
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Re: "SUV" Discussion

Postby jakerman999 » Mon Jun 16, 2008 1:36 pm UTC

1 1 2 3 5 8 13 21 wrote:
tesla4d wrote:
1800yolk wrote:I smell smug! <cough cough>


If you really want smug, talk to me or one of the other thousands of people in the world that consume no fossil fuel by riding bicyles.

Last year I only spent money on gas to pay my friend for when I had to leave my usual 14-mile radius, meaning I spent about US$100 on gasoline, and US$6000 on my usual fuel, i.e., Spaghetti, salad, hamburgers...

When was the last time you sucked down a liter of gasoline and survived, much less enjoyed it? :-P

Unfortunately, some of us live in a state with a climate best described as "Armpit-like", where living without air-conditioning is not optional (Unless you're my #@(*$&@ landlord... IT'S BROKEN SIX TIMES IN A MONTH! SIX! And STAYED broken each time longer than it stayed FIXED!), and unless you want to arrive at work drenched in sweat and smelling like said-climate-decription, you essentially have to have a car.

I guess what I'm saying is I love air conditioning, and hate this heat. DEAR LORD IT'S STILL 80 OUTSIDE AND IT'S 3AM! AND I HAVE NO AIR CONDITIONER!

On a side note: Please kill me. Or fix my Air Conditioner. Preferably the AC one.



you should come up here to canada. we have people in the middle of summer that walk around in sweatsuits(I'm one of them). two years living up here and you will be immune to temperature.
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Re: "SUV" Discussion

Postby fishyfish777 » Mon Jun 16, 2008 1:57 pm UTC

I thought today's comic was funny...

I like the big in-car touchscreen that comes with the priuses though, if you know what I mean :mrgreen: It's cool



...


But I like my StreetMate better.
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The reverse!

Postby InvisblePinkUnicorn » Mon Jun 16, 2008 2:16 pm UTC

As for me, I like to rent an ethanol hybrid, drive it to impoverished regions, and laugh at their inability to pay for food.

400% increase in the price of tortillas? Ha! Your human need for nourishment aint lookin' so pretty now, is it?

(and before you spam "LOL YOU CAN'T EAT SWITCHGRASS!!111" think for a second about what a farmer will do if the government says they'll pay him more than he currently makes if he converts his land to ethanol production...)

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Re: "SUV" Discussion

Postby ASW » Mon Jun 16, 2008 2:18 pm UTC

shasan wrote:As the first Prius driver to chime in, I have to say that it's pretty nice to be cruising down the road and looking at 50+ MPG. The nice thing is that the tank is relatively small as well, so when it is time to fill up it's not too painful. I don't think I've ever spent more than $35 on gas. And I'm able to get over 400 miles on a single tank -- that's mostly city driving, too.

One tidbit that is really interesting, even to non-hybrid owners, is that fuel efficiency really does drop off markedly at higher speeds. I get dramatically better fuel efficiency at 45 MPH (70 MPG+) versus 60 MPH (<50 MPG).

All this said, I'm happy about high fuel prices. Maybe that will get people angry enough to persuade our governments (local, state, federal) to improve public transportation so that it isn't necessary for most people to own a car in this country.


Phew, I thought I was the only one around that was actually happy about the high fuel prices. I heard an economist say not too long ago that we wouldn't see the American public care about gas and do something about their consumption until gas hit $4.00 a gallon. Im hoping it stays up here so the automakers will start competing for the fuel efficient market. $3.00 a gallon was just enough to make people whine. At $4.00 a gallon we are seeing things like Trucks no longer #1 sellers.
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Re: "SUV" Discussion

Postby Cytoplasm » Mon Jun 16, 2008 2:29 pm UTC

Huh, that's funny because my dad and I were talking about SUVs last night and how they're not very popular right now (due to gas prices). I wish gas was $4.08 in my town, but the lowest is eight cents higher.

This comic made me giggle all the same.
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Re: "SUV" Discussion

Postby Newto » Mon Jun 16, 2008 3:01 pm UTC

Gobo wrote:* Also, I can't confirm this, but apparently filling up in the early morning is better than later due to thermal expansion; you allegedly get more fuel when it is cooler (perhaps some of the physics/chemistry geeks here can confirm if this makes a real difference).


The pumps are actually supposed to be calibrated to deal with temperature changes.

There was actually a massive survey of fuel pumps in Canada recently (it filled two sections of the Ottawa Citizen over two days). The pumps are set up to always give you the same amount. The issue is that not all pumps are calibrated properly, most are outside of the acceptable range. What's more concerning is most are biased to the pump owner. So what you are better off doing is somehow measuring the amount of gas that comes out of each pump and finding out which pump is better calibrated in your favour at all the pumps you use, and always use that one

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Re: "SUV" Discussion

Postby asad137 » Mon Jun 16, 2008 3:49 pm UTC

joee wrote:Can someone tell me what the M and P stand for? I assume D=Diesel?


Mid-grade and Premium. Here, the levels are 87, 89 (mid-grade), and 92 (premium) octane.

Asad

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Re: "SUV" Discussion

Postby JoseB » Mon Jun 16, 2008 3:50 pm UTC

Another Prius driver, living in the Netherlands. I was doubting whether to buy a Prius or a diesel. It would be my first "new" car (until then I had been driving a small 2nd-hand car, which I got after I obtained my driver's licence in order to get used to driving).

Although the Prius was more expensive than the diesel, although they use (roughly) the same amount of fuel and this would favour the diesel car (for diesel fuel is somewhat cheaper here than gasoline)... I went for the Prius for a simple reason: taxes.

In the Netherlands, a diesel car pays more yearly road tax than a gasoline car, to begin with. Also, the Dutch government was giving a rebate to the tune of EUR 1,000 to buyers of vehicles with an "A" label for energy efficiency (the rank goes from "A" -best- to "G" -worst-). The Prius is in the "A" class, and the only other "A"-class cars available were much smaller than the Prius is, and less comfortable.

After making the calculations, and taking into account the fact that the differential between diesel fuel and gasoline prices has narrowed quite a bit, I decided to buy the Prius.

I am very satisfied with it, and I think it behaves quite nicely on the road. Also, the interior is comfortable and bigger than it would appear at first glance.

In my case, the Prius was the car that maximized my function for buying a car, based on the parameters of comfort, low fuel consumption, and taxes I'd have to pay. Max(f(C, F, T)) if you will. That is why I bought mine.

And I am happy with my decision, to tell the truth :)

Just my 2 eurocent!

JoseB

P.S.: Yesterday I saw gasoline priced at €1.65 / litre . That translates to roughly $ 9.67 / gallon with the latest exchange rates.
Last edited by JoseB on Mon Jun 16, 2008 4:18 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
JoseB
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Rookie
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Re: "SUV" Discussion

Postby Rookie » Mon Jun 16, 2008 4:07 pm UTC

asad137 wrote:Here, the levels are 87, 89 (mid-grade), and 92 (premium) octane.


Oh nice. We have 91 (Normal), 95 (Super) and 98 (Super Plus) octane. Modern cras need at least 95, most want 98 but can live with 95. This is why 91 and 95 are the same price now (some weeks ago they even were in sync with Diesel).

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caiomarcos
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Re: "SUV" Discussion

Postby caiomarcos » Mon Jun 16, 2008 4:39 pm UTC

Turns out gas is not that expensive here in Brazil, around U$3.65 after all conversions.
But (and that's a huge BUT) our average income is a bazillion times less than US or Europe. In the end I think it's quite hard to keep the thank full here even thou nowadays everyone has a flex car (can run on any combination of gas/ethanol mixture, ethanol being much cheaper than gas and a bit less efficient).

I have a driver's license, but the only time I get behind the wheel is the occasional help for my father/brother to park in our apartment garage. But just this morning I SMASHED my brother's car on a concrete column while parking it, so I guess from now on it's gonna be like "LESS CAR, MORE BIKE", on other words "LESS GAS, MORE BACON!"

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Re: "SUV" Discussion

Postby InvisblePinkUnicorn » Mon Jun 16, 2008 4:58 pm UTC

ASW wrote:Phew, I thought I was the only one around that was actually happy about the high fuel prices. I heard an economist say not too long ago that we wouldn't see the American public care about gas and do something about their consumption until gas hit $4.00 a gallon. Im hoping it stays up here so the automakers will start competing for the fuel efficient market. $3.00 a gallon was just enough to make people whine. At $4.00 a gallon we are seeing things like Trucks no longer #1 sellers.
My green sister says there is a 100mpg Prius on its way in the next couple years.


And as a result of your blind acceptance of gimmicks without looking at the consequences, you'll all be paying more for food and gas.

Simple logic:

1. government subsidizes ethanol production.
2. Farmers see they can get more $$$ for corn or switchgrass than they can for wheat, barley, other crops.
3. Farmers switch over to switchgrass/corn production.
4. Less food is produced.
5. Food costs more.

and:

1. Gas prices go up
2. People wanting to save money become more efficient with their driving
3. Government subsidizes ethanol production
4. Hybrid cars become popular
5. With 50+ MPG, people become less efficient with their driving (maybe even less efficient than when gas was at $2/gal)
6. More gas/ethanol is wasted
7. Gas prices increase a little (but gas production is high so it won't increase much)
8. Ethanol prices skyrocket (ethanol production is relatively low)

Not to mention that the money for this government subsidization comes from tax dollars that you have to pay. So you're paying more in taxes and food to get the illusion of paying less for fuel.

All this, without even helping the environment!

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JoseB
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Re: "SUV" Discussion

Postby JoseB » Mon Jun 16, 2008 5:13 pm UTC

But, InvisiblePinkUnicorn, hybrid cars do not work with ethanol mixtures. They are called hybrid because they are gasoline/electric... A Prius cannot burn ethanol-mixed fuel, as far as I know. Yet you are talking about the problems of using ethanol as fuel, which are unrelated to hybrid automobiles per se.

Anyway, the problems with ethanol as biofuel stem mostly from the way the US has approached the manufacturing of ethanol (subsidizing ethanol from corn, which is very inefficient but keeps the US farmers happy). In Brazil, for instance, they have been producing huge amounts of ethanol for decades by using the by-products of their sugarcane crop, but they are blocked from exporting excedents of it by huge tariffs in the US and other countries.

Another possibility would stem from research being done on breeding bacteria that would eat cellulose and metabolize alcohol as a by-product. That would allow you to use wheat and other food crops, using the grain for food and the straw for fuel. But that is still quite a ways off, it seems.

Just my 2 eurocent!

JoseB
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DanielZKlein
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Re: "SUV" Discussion

Postby DanielZKlein » Mon Jun 16, 2008 5:50 pm UTC

Right. Someone beat me to it.


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