0468: "Fetishes"

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Rinsaikeru
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Re: "Fetishes" discussion

Postby Rinsaikeru » Wed Aug 27, 2008 5:34 am UTC

I read xkcd and my background is English/History. I usually know what the joke is, because it can be logically sorted out--but I rarely get the math/computer references without some reading.

ie. I understood why the right hand rule one was funny--but I had to get an engineer to explain to me why I knew it was funny. In this case, you can read the text and get the joke--'anything not on your list' makes it an impossible entry into the list--for the subtext and history I had to read it on the forum. (But I like history, even the history of math and science.)
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Re: "Fetishes" discussion

Postby Shakleton » Wed Aug 27, 2008 5:36 am UTC

obviuos link to the "What's your Fetish"-Thread in LSR-fora8

Loved the comic. I didn't get it the first time, though. (I thought they just had to put everything down, not the recursive stuff...) Thanks for explanation!

Finally, a great "Non-meme"-xkcd! :mrgreen:
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Re: "Fetishes" discussion

Postby suzi » Wed Aug 27, 2008 5:37 am UTC

PatrThom wrote:Found a link to the image in question, if anyone is interested.


--Patrick



Hrm. Pretty strange that glasses/geeks/bookishness wasn't on there. I guess you could argue it falls under "school play" but the broader categories of age and hurt/comfort really don't explain that type of fetish/attraction, in my opinion.

Humph.

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Re: "Fetishes" discussion

Postby '; DROP DATABASE;-- » Wed Aug 27, 2008 5:40 am UTC

I get it, but why can't "everything on this list twice" be added to the list? It's not like you'd have to duplicate the entire list, just write it literally. As for "everything not on this list", I guess the solution would be to add a footnote along the lines of "except, presumably, this item".
theta4 wrote:
HistidineTheCat wrote:Simple, find someone who is turned on by everything. Then Godel's fetishes can be summed up by "nothing," and you're all set!


I'd hate to be turned on by everything. That means everything.
You'd be turned on by the fact that you're turned on. O_o

Also, collars = hawt, but if I'm correct in understanding a fetish is something that must be present (as opposed to something that merely enhances the effect), then I guess I don't have one. :P
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Re: "Fetishes" discussion

Postby Shakleton » Wed Aug 27, 2008 5:47 am UTC

'; DROP DATABASE;-- wrote:
theta4 wrote:
HistidineTheCat wrote:Simple, find someone who is turned on by everything. Then Godel's fetishes can be summed up by "nothing," and you're all set!

I'd hate to be turned on by everything. That means everything.
You'd be turned on by the fact that you're turned on. O_o

And you would be turned on by the fact that you are turned on by the fact that you are turned on. [YaY infinity]
Imagine such a person. The only job possible would be in cybersex or something...
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Re: "Fetishes" discussion

Postby arbivark » Wed Aug 27, 2008 5:51 am UTC

Math?
Language?
Romance?
Sarcasm?
yup, yup, yup, yup.
Thanks for the chart.
I wonder if there's a chart like that for 4chan.
Do read GEB.
I don't have any fetishes. Just ask the 6 young men I spanked last night at the club.

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Re: "Fetishes" discussion

Postby Neck Bolts » Wed Aug 27, 2008 6:00 am UTC

'; DROP DATABASE;-- wrote:
theta4 wrote:I'd hate to be turned on by everything. That means everything.
You'd be turned on by the fact that you're turned on. O_o



Which would, in turn, turn him on.


After that last comic, I really hope that this person doesn't exist.
He knew with all his heart that the human situation was a frightful botch, but it was such a logical, intelligently arrived-at botch the he couldn't see how history could possibly have led anywhere else.

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Re: "Fetishes" discussion

Postby bjimba » Wed Aug 27, 2008 6:01 am UTC

Et tu, Randall? Or should I say Randal?

95% of the people named Russell spell it with two L's, yet the rest of the world blindly goes on spelling it with one. What's up with that?

Leon Russell.
Bill Russell.
Rosalind Russell.
BERTRAND RUSSELL.
Gail Russell.
Kimberly Russell.
Jane Russell.
Ken Russell.
Kurt Russell.
Brian Russell. (He was my uncle. He was Potlatch the cook in "Charlie and the Lonesome Cougar".)
Lillian Russell.
Nipsey Russell.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russel

I've been fighting this battle for 51 years. Can you tell?

Sincerely,
Jim "bjimba" Russell. With two L's.
http://bjimba.blogspot.com

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Re: "Fetishes" discussion

Postby cyberia » Wed Aug 27, 2008 6:03 am UTC

'; DROP DATABASE;-- wrote:
theta4 wrote:
HistidineTheCat wrote:Simple, find someone who is turned on by everything. Then Godel's fetishes can be summed up by "nothing," and you're all set!


I'd hate to be turned on by everything. That means everything.
You'd be turned on by the fact that you're turned on. O_o


Recursive erotica? 0_o
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Re: "Fetishes" discussion

Postby Handsome » Wed Aug 27, 2008 6:13 am UTC

I have to stop reading the comic late at night. I almost woke up my roommate I laughed so hard.

That being said, I need a new copy of Godel-Escher-Bach. My current one is about 25 years old and falling apart.
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Re: "Fetishes" discussion

Postby Cooley » Wed Aug 27, 2008 6:18 am UTC

As of posting, xkcd.com has an alexa rank of 3,009. You can't expect everyone who comes here to be seriously hardcore math/science people that we'd get why this comic is so funny, except in a "oh, haha, that wouldn't work he tricked" them sort of way. But then the people who've been set up for this comic by studying and personal interests laugh out loud because they get the history.

Now, the fora on the other hand...

(The explanations in this thread only enhanced the joke, IMO. Loved it.)

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Re: "Fetishes" discussion

Postby Simplex » Wed Aug 27, 2008 6:29 am UTC

Yet another long time lurker, first time poster. Lets get the obligatory "get out of my head Randal" out of the way first; I'm in the middle of reading "A brief history of the paradox" by Roy Sorensen at the moment (good book, I do have a strange love for paradoxes though). Was reading about Socrates, Parmenides, Epimenides, Aristotle etc just the other night, and it mentioned how the Liar Paradox, among other's, had inspired allot of great scientific, language theory, and mathematical work, so a comic touching on Gödel's work was quite nice (If someone wants, I'll find the passage and quote it, it's interesting). Definitely one of my favorite comics, I'm surprised so many people didn't get it without doing some background reading first.

The idea of a person being turned on by everything is fellatious fallacious; ignoring what everyone else has already said, they'd be turned on by the thought of nothing being able to turn them on! :wink:

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Re: "Fetishes" discussion

Postby Cooley » Wed Aug 27, 2008 6:37 am UTC

Simplex wrote:The idea of a person being turned on by everything is fellatious fallacious; ignoring what everyone else has already said, they'd be turned on by the thought of nothing being able to turn them on!


Isn't that kind of how fetishes work? That nothing turns that person on except one thing, and the not being turned on thing makes that one thing much more powerful?

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Re: "Fetishes" discussion

Postby skeptical scientist » Wed Aug 27, 2008 6:40 am UTC

Best. xkcd. ever.

Want T-shirt!
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Re: "Fetishes" discussion

Postby diotimajsh » Wed Aug 27, 2008 6:42 am UTC

The curious thing about this for me (aside from the cringe-worthy spelling of Russell as "Russel") is that comic-Gödel's response almost seems a better fit for Russell's own paradox rather than the Incompleteness Theorem. Granted, of course, there's quite a bit of conceptual similarity between the two (as noted by Hofstadter in his wonderful book), but still. I guess it's much funnier this way, though.
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Re: "Fetishes" discussion

Postby stormoftara » Wed Aug 27, 2008 6:46 am UTC

madhollywood wrote:I am modestly surprised this conversation has yet to devolve into a listing of fetishes. I would have volunteered some of mine, but since nobody has volunteered theirs I will refrain. Who will be the first to demonstrate some courage?

My fetishes are all those things that people won't list in this thread.

...what?


EDIT: I bet all those people in the comic are going to show up in Google's most searched.

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Re: "Fetishes" discussion

Postby somdude04 » Wed Aug 27, 2008 7:20 am UTC

PatrThom wrote:Found a link to the image in question, if anyone is interested.


--Patrick


Things I noticed missing:
Spoiler:
cheerleader outfit (although that's mainstream where it may not be considered a fetish), a whole multiple partners category and rape (although they did have a non-consenting partners category they didn't actually spell it out)

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Re: "Fetishes" discussion

Postby Aviatrix » Wed Aug 27, 2008 7:21 am UTC

Also laughed, also cringed at Russel.

But how can someone be enough of a lurker to know to say GOOMHR and not know about intro threads?

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Re: "Fetishes" discussion

Postby akirjazi » Wed Aug 27, 2008 7:22 am UTC

Recursive FAIL

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Re: "Fetishes" discussion

Postby Anthemyst » Wed Aug 27, 2008 7:28 am UTC

Kickass awesome; I laughed so hard my stomach hurts. And now I feel a smug sort of pride; after not getting countless CS comics, finally my Logic minor enables me to get the joke without looking things up first!
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Re: "Fetishes" discussion

Postby mgcclx » Wed Aug 27, 2008 7:41 am UTC

Anthemyst wrote:Kickass awesome; I laughed so hard my stomach hurts. And now I feel a smug sort of pride; after not getting countless CS comics, finally my Logic minor enables me to get the joke without looking things up first!

After reading what you said...
I feel so superior because I know all math, cs and logic references in xkcd without a high school diploma!
I must be really into math fetishes.
Don't mind that I fail at all popular, science and humanity ones.

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Re: "Fetishes" discussion

Postby Flewellyn » Wed Aug 27, 2008 7:42 am UTC

I think this is now my favorite XKCD ever. Godel's theorem and "proof by contradiction" in general tickle my intellectual funny bone.

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Re: "Fetishes" discussion

Postby thebeaky » Wed Aug 27, 2008 8:06 am UTC

stormoftara wrote:EDIT: I bet all those people in the comic are going to show up in Google's most searched.


yeah, I had wondered. everytime there is a google results for comic, the google results change.

I recently searched "killed in a blogging accident" and found rather more than one entry.

loved the comic. got the Godel if you'll forgive the missing omlouts. didnt know the others, and it took me a while to get the everything on the list twice answer. but many thanks fora for helping out.

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Re: "Fetishes" discussion

Postby tylerxdurden » Wed Aug 27, 2008 8:07 am UTC


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Re: "Fetishes" discussion

Postby Simplex » Wed Aug 27, 2008 8:23 am UTC

tylerxdurden wrote:talking about strange fetishes:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dendrophilia_(paraphilia)


Even stranger is knowing of the fetish already, ignoring my partial knowledge of greek (δένδρο / dendro = tree). Also, phili is love, for those curious.

But how can someone be enough of a lurker to know to say GOOMHR and not know about intro threads?


Intro threads are creepy. I'll wander over there later, I'd much rather my first post be adding something to a discussion, rather than "Name, rank, serial number, oh and by the way, i like kittens ^_^"

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Re: "Fetishes" discussion

Postby Southwest » Wed Aug 27, 2008 8:25 am UTC

Somewhat related to being aroused by everything, I give you Sarah Carmen.

The tagline says that she suffers from the syndrome. I find that claim highly dubious.

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Re: "Fetishes" discussion

Postby Hrngh » Wed Aug 27, 2008 8:34 am UTC

OK, here's what confuses me about this. It seems like Godel's stating Russell's paradox to Russell. Which is. Well. I dunno, confusing, since he's not really saying anything about, you know, incompleteness. It seems like maybe Russell should be saying what Godel is saying, only to Frege.

Also, does someone understand the alt text? Like, diagonalization arguments (which are what Cantor is often associated with) prove something not to be in a collection.... I don't know what he could be referring to here....

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Re: "Fetishes" discussion

Postby JurPic » Wed Aug 27, 2008 8:44 am UTC

skeptical scientist wrote:Best. xkcd. ever.

Want T-shirt!

I second that, but only if the misspelling of "Russell" is fixed.
On the comic: best in months, easily. I <3 Logic! :o

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Re: "Fetishes" discussion

Postby Greyjoy » Wed Aug 27, 2008 8:59 am UTC

PatrThom wrote:Found a link to the image in question, if anyone is interested.


--Patrick


Notably absent from the chart: Sprawling, complex charts

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Re: "Fetishes" discussion

Postby tsouanas » Wed Aug 27, 2008 9:24 am UTC

diotimajsh wrote:The curious thing about this for me (aside from the cringe-worthy spelling of Russell as "Russel") is that comic-Gödel's response almost seems a better fit for Russell's own paradox rather than the Incompleteness Theorem. Granted, of course, there's quite a bit of conceptual similarity between the two (as noted by Hofstadter in his wonderful book), but still. I guess it's much funnier this way, though.


True ;) This is how Russell would have ruined Cantor's attempt to compile the list.

Had I seen that you already mentioned that, I wouldn't have gone through the trouble to register.. grmf!

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Re: "Fetishes" discussion

Postby creaothceann » Wed Aug 27, 2008 9:38 am UTC

thebeaky wrote:omlouts

What's that? :P

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Re: "Fetishes" discussion

Postby SirMustapha » Wed Aug 27, 2008 10:09 am UTC

Don't think this is my favourite strip ever, but it was epic. Thankfully I got it right away. It's one of the best in months, indeed.

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Re: "Fetishes" discussion

Postby adbp » Wed Aug 27, 2008 10:25 am UTC

Indeed a most beautiful comic - just a shame that Gödel is giving Bertram Russell's answer.
Why the man ever wrote Principa Mathematica with Whitehead after finding that loophole is a mystery to me...

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Re: "Fetishes" discussion

Postby Chalnoth » Wed Aug 27, 2008 10:44 am UTC

Just for anybody who wants to see, here is the list:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_paraphilias

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Re: "Fetishes" discussion

Postby Alder » Wed Aug 27, 2008 11:03 am UTC

StochasticTemper wrote:I am probably not alone in that I only started reading the forums because I didn't get the intricate math/coding jokes.

Yup.
The number of times I have to do some homework before I get the joke... :D




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Re: "Fetishes" discussion

Postby madhollywood » Wed Aug 27, 2008 11:15 am UTC

Neck Bolts wrote:
madhollywood wrote:I am modestly surprised this conversation has yet to devolve into a listing of fetishes. I would have volunteered some of mine, but since nobody has volunteered theirs I will refrain. Who will be the first to demonstrate some courage?



Descartes' fetish was cross-eyed women



Who am I to argue with Descartes?

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Re: "Fetishes" discussion

Postby SimonBob » Wed Aug 27, 2008 11:38 am UTC

My fetish is watching barbers cry after mathematicians ask who shaves them.

(preemptive strike against "I don't get it")
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Re: "Fetishes" discussion

Postby Boxcar Aldous Huxley » Wed Aug 27, 2008 11:56 am UTC

So for people who know the theorem better than I: It feels to me like the "proof" as presented in the comic isn't quite how the actual proof goes. What would make it more in line (or is it already)?

On a lighter note, what about the people turned on by Godel's Incompleteness Theorem?


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StochasticTemper wrote:XKCD is not just for CS/Math geeks... what about us biochemists? We know that science works (bitches) and have a sense of humor but, alas, never made it past multivariable calc.

I am probably not alone in that I only started reading the forums because I didn't get the intricate math/coding jokes.


There's plenty of biochemists using advanced math. Note that my profile pic (as of now) could only have been created with a bunch of fourier analysis (and lots of computer help as well).
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Re: "Fetishes" discussion

Postby libra » Wed Aug 27, 2008 12:21 pm UTC

SimonBob wrote:My fetish is watching barbers cry after mathematicians ask who shaves them.[/url])[/size]

Bravissimo! :)

Until, of course, the barber responds with "Oh, I shave myself regardless because, you know, I'm human and therefore can contain contradictions."

The issue of what Gödel's supposed to have done might still have slipped by many beginners to mathematics, to the fora and indeed to the intersection of both sets.

In short: For any mathematical theorem T, there exists a statement G such that G is unprovable within T.

In other words, G can't be proven true; not only that, G can't be proven false, either. Within T, G is a flaw; an incompleteness.

Within the remit of the scope of fetish plays and paraphilias, it is clear that many paraphilias have not been listed. These include the paraphilia some women have for large man made structures (one woman was said to have engaged the Berlin Wall, and another has claimed to have married the Eiffel Tower), and the paraphilia some men have for copulating with various, somewhat smaller yet still large, objects such as cars, RealDolls and sidewalks.

I only skimmed that above diagram, yet I don't recall any mention of "danger sex," where the sexual act (exhibitionism, masturbation or some form of partnered sexual activity) occurs in a public venue with a very real danger of reprisals of some sort (in a church, on a low roof overlooking an outdoor party, in the middle of a rock concert or football stadium, out on the street underneath CCTV cameras etc).

Also conspicuously absent is the paraphiliac fetish for using various forms of anaesthetic, usually in gaseous form - nitrous oxide being the all-time favourite - on various parties, willing and often unwilling. Some are turned on by the application of the medical mask, others by wearing fully functioning gas masks, and others still by administering the drug or gas upon unwitting subjects. Very frequently, the laughing gas fetish is combined with the tickling BDSM fetish, where the bound victim is tickled unto orgasm, with a long side trip through hilarity.

The aim here is not to perform the rape act upon an unconscious subject, but rather to fulfil the fantasy of the "knockout-carry-tie up" scenario made popular by comics passim. A corollary to this is, of course, "rescue sex," where the distressed person receives a thrill from being either the rescuer or the rescuee. Often, "rescue sex" and "danger sex" may mean the same thing, as the copulation may take place within the room wherein the rescuee had been bound; "Hurry! The guards might return any minute!"

So, rather than "Nothing," I'd suggest that Gödel's response to the researchers should be "Within your comprehensive list of fetishes, there exists one fetish which cannot be described in your list."

That doesn't include "nothing," because a zero response to sexual stimuli can be considered one extreme of the curve of sexual sensitivity, the other extreme of course being Panphilia.

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Re: "Fetishes" discussion

Postby guayec » Wed Aug 27, 2008 12:41 pm UTC

Laughing and learning at the same time.
I really love xkcd.
Great comic.


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