0509: "Induced Current"

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Hurduser
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Re: "Induced Current" Discussion

Postby Hurduser » Wed Nov 26, 2008 12:30 pm UTC

'Solar flares' does refer to the famous BOfH excuse, right?
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radtea
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Re: "Induced Current" Discussion

Postby radtea » Wed Nov 26, 2008 1:21 pm UTC

Can people please stop using the words "might" and "possibly" with regard to the LHC creating black holes that destroy the Earth?

I know that English is not the first language of everyone on this forum, especially the Americans, but anyone with sufficient English language skills to post here should have no trouble refining their vocabulary to capture the correct meaning of these terms, which can only be properly used to refer to things that are not impossible.

On the other hand, if your standard of "impossible" is so high as to think that black holes from the LHC "might" "possibly" destroy the Earth, you need to explain why you keep bringing that "possibility" up, but don't ever bring up everything else that has a higher probability, like WMDs being found in Iraq, the use of cell phones attracting passing asteroids that crash into the Earth killing everyone, the spontaneous combustion of Stephen Hawking causing the Earth's atmosphere to catch fire, and so on.

Is it just that you're too stupid to realize that these other phenomena are out there, waiting to kill us all? Or are you too brain-dead uncreative to think of them, therefore being reduced to banal repetition of this single idiotic meme?

And finally, since we know this meme has killed at least one person, how does it feel to be a murderer?
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Re: "Induced Current" Discussion

Postby TizzyFoe » Wed Nov 26, 2008 1:30 pm UTC

It would have been so much better punchline was only given in the alt text. Add another panel about how the sun is approaching a period of high activity which is why extension cords have been safe for the past few years. Digg the comic up, and we probably would have actually seen in on mythbusters in a year or 2.
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Re: "Induced Current" Discussion

Postby Random832 » Wed Nov 26, 2008 1:37 pm UTC

radtea wrote:Can people please stop using the words "might" and "possibly" with regard to the LHC creating black holes that destroy the Earth?

I know that English is not the first language of everyone on this forum, especially the Americans, but anyone with sufficient English language skills to post here should have no trouble refining their vocabulary to capture the correct meaning of these terms, which can only be properly used to refer to things that are not impossible.

On the other hand, if your standard of "impossible" is so high as to think that black holes from the LHC "might" "possibly" destroy the Earth, you need to explain why you keep bringing that "possibility" up, but don't ever bring up everything else that has a higher probability, like WMDs being found in Iraq, the use of cell phones attracting passing asteroids that crash into the Earth killing everyone, the spontaneous combustion of Stephen Hawking causing the Earth's atmosphere to catch fire, and so on.


There is a difference between a low probability and an unknown. The language "might possibly" can be used for either. The LHC's effect on the Earth is an unknown, whereas those other things you listed are low-probability. Just because it's stupid is no excuse for you to use the fallacy of equivocation to argue against it.

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Re: "Induced Current" Discussion

Postby Armadillo Al » Wed Nov 26, 2008 2:19 pm UTC

FearfulFerret wrote:EDIT: no, it can't be. The comic clearly shows the beret either being transparent only on the left side of the head (unlikely) or simply that it is worn at a jaunty angle worn on the right side of the head, whereas Jamie always wears his on the left side of his head. I'm honestly suspecting that it's Jamie's evil twin or something.

No...Jamie's the evil twin. Jamie's hat is black, and Beret Guy's hat is white. Duh.

...okay, so maybe I've absorbed a little too much from the infinite stream of westerns my father watches all weekend...
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Re: "Induced Current" Discussion

Postby esprit » Wed Nov 26, 2008 2:35 pm UTC

I just want to see how they go about creating a micro blackhole out of a caravan.

Because you know that if they do it a Caravan is going down somewhere in the process.

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Re: "Induced Current" Discussion

Postby GodShapedBullet » Wed Nov 26, 2008 2:39 pm UTC

TizzyFoe wrote:It would have been so much better punchline was only given in the alt text. Add another panel about how the sun is approaching a period of high activity which is why extension cords have been safe for the past few years. Digg the comic up, and we probably would have actually seen in on mythbusters in a year or 2.


I think that might have run the risk of confusing too many people. alt/title text is a tricky business. You sort of want the comic to be able to stand without it for the sake of your readers that don't regularly check it (people sometimes tend to ignore it, especially when skimming through lots of pages of archives). But then sometimes a joke is best delivered with that extra beat the title text popping up gives you.

It's hard sometimes.

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Re: "Induced Current" Discussion

Postby josephoenix » Wed Nov 26, 2008 4:23 pm UTC

radtea wrote:Can people please stop using the words "might" and "possibly" with regard to the LHC creating black holes that destroy the Earth?

I know that English is not the first language of everyone on this forum, especially the Americans, but anyone with sufficient English language skills to post here should have no trouble refining their vocabulary to capture the correct meaning of these terms, which can only be properly used to refer to things that are not impossible.

On the other hand, if your standard of "impossible" is so high as to think that black holes from the LHC "might" "possibly" destroy the Earth, you need to explain why you keep bringing that "possibility" up, but don't ever bring up everything else that has a higher probability, like WMDs being found in Iraq, the use of cell phones attracting passing asteroids that crash into the Earth killing everyone, the spontaneous combustion of Stephen Hawking causing the Earth's atmosphere to catch fire, and so on.

Is it just that you're too stupid to realize that these other phenomena are out there, waiting to kill us all? Or are you too brain-dead uncreative to think of them, therefore being reduced to banal repetition of this single idiotic meme?

And finally, since we know this meme has killed at least one person, how does it feel to be a murderer?


I might possibly think you're a total ass-hat. Really, all of that was unnecessarily rude and abrasive for no reason. Saying the LHC might possibly create a black hole is a perfect statement of accuracy. Accurate in the fact that we have no clue what is going to happen. You're basing your argument off of "definitions" of words. Really, if it's common and accepted to use might and possibly in these situations, then they can use them. The purpose of language is to communicate, and if everyone understands them, [except you], then the rules are for the birds, and it's completely acceptable. Not to mention you're arguing over linguistics like you're the king of language when your post was so riddled with grammatical errors it's ridiculous. But i won't point them out to you, because i'm not as much of a persnickety Nazi as you are.

Anyway, due to this comic, it is now my life goal to start a myth so simultaneously amazing and ridiculous that it appears on the show to be busted. [It would be even more awesome if the myth i created out of my imagination turns out to be plausible.]
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Re: "Induced Current" Discussion

Postby GodShapedBullet » Wed Nov 26, 2008 4:40 pm UTC

josephoenix wrote:
I might possibly think you're a total ass-hat. Really, all of that was unnecessarily rude and abrasive for no reason. Saying the LHC might possibly create a black hole is a perfect statement of accuracy. Accurate in the fact that we have no clue what is going to happen. You're basing your argument off of "definitions" of words. Really, if it's common and accepted to use might and possibly in these situations, then they can use them. The purpose of language is to communicate, and if everyone understands them, [except you], then the rules are for the birds, and it's completely acceptable. Not to mention you're arguing over linguistics like you're the king of language when your post was so riddled with grammatical errors it's ridiculous. But i won't point them out to you, because i'm not as much of a persnickety Nazi as you are.


Welcome to the internet, everyone!

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Re: "Induced Current" Discussion

Postby greycloud » Wed Nov 26, 2008 4:42 pm UTC

cyberblade wrote:Took me a minute to dig this up, but here it is: http://www.leasticoulddo.com/comic/20081001

Still, the alt-text was funny too-and I'm sure it's something lots of us have thought about...

Edit: Is the guy in the comic stealing lines from the BOFH or is he the BOFH?



lol I knew that alt text sounded farmiluar!

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Re: "Induced Current" Discussion

Postby Sprocket » Wed Nov 26, 2008 4:55 pm UTC

the alt. text was a very direct simple connection. At least, that's where the comic lead me.
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Re: "Induced Current" Discussion

Postby Elennaro » Wed Nov 26, 2008 5:38 pm UTC

Am I the only one who thinks this should have been a BHG comic?

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Re: "Induced Current" Discussion

Postby math.english.ginger » Wed Nov 26, 2008 5:58 pm UTC

This is the first time I've truely had a 'Randall get out of my head' moment... I checked XKCD as a break from studying for my physics exam on - what else? - induced currents. A bit too weird.

And yes, I created an account just to announce this event.

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Re: "Induced Current" Discussion

Postby Additives » Wed Nov 26, 2008 6:35 pm UTC

I thought this should have been BHG,

By the way, first time poster, long time pissing myself laughing.
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Re: "Induced Current" Discussion

Postby Aelfyre » Wed Nov 26, 2008 7:30 pm UTC

GodShapedBullet wrote:
josephoenix wrote:
I might possibly think you're a total ass-hat. Really, all of that was unnecessarily rude and abrasive for no reason. Saying the LHC might possibly create a black hole is a perfect statement of accuracy. Accurate in the fact that we have no clue what is going to happen. You're basing your argument off of "definitions" of words. Really, if it's common and accepted to use might and possibly in these situations, then they can use them. The purpose of language is to communicate, and if everyone understands them, [except you], then the rules are for the birds, and it's completely acceptable. Not to mention you're arguing over linguistics like you're the king of language when your post was so riddled with grammatical errors it's ridiculous. But i won't point them out to you, because i'm not as much of a persnickety Nazi as you are.


Welcome to the internet, everyone!



We were lead to believe there would be punch and pie?
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Re: "Induced Current" Discussion

Postby Spyike Johansson » Wed Nov 26, 2008 7:33 pm UTC

One day, I'm going to make a low-fi punk band, and call our first album "By Extending Your Power Cord, You Could Kill Us All."

Awwww yeah...
Last edited by Spyike Johansson on Wed Nov 26, 2008 10:08 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: "Induced Current" Discussion

Postby GodShapedBullet » Wed Nov 26, 2008 7:41 pm UTC

Aelfyre wrote:
GodShapedBullet wrote:
josephoenix wrote:
I might possibly think you're a total ass-hat. Really, all of that was unnecessarily rude and abrasive for no reason. Saying the LHC might possibly create a black hole is a perfect statement of accuracy. Accurate in the fact that we have no clue what is going to happen. You're basing your argument off of "definitions" of words. Really, if it's common and accepted to use might and possibly in these situations, then they can use them. The purpose of language is to communicate, and if everyone understands them, [except you], then the rules are for the birds, and it's completely acceptable. Not to mention you're arguing over linguistics like you're the king of language when your post was so riddled with grammatical errors it's ridiculous. But i won't point them out to you, because i'm not as much of a persnickety Nazi as you are.


Welcome to the internet, everyone!



We were lead to believe there would be punch and pie?


Nope, just accusing people of being Nazis!

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Re: "Induced Current" Discussion

Postby justAnotherProphet » Wed Nov 26, 2008 7:49 pm UTC

Shouldn't he be wearing a black hat?

Wait, never mind, BHM would probably already have something like that ready. White Beret Man would plug his extension cord into a giant electromagnet, with an appropriately large permanent magnet inside it, so that when the flare happened, WBM's electronics would receive 1.21 GW of DC at.. I don't know, a billion amps? The building would go floom and all we'd see is BHM sneaking out the side door...

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Re: "Induced Current" Discussion

Postby greycloud » Wed Nov 26, 2008 8:42 pm UTC

I think the reason why this hasn't got BHG is because in terms of naivity/gullability:

BHG < Normal < White Berret Guy

The Normal guy would never have fallen for this. And BHM would have been even more mean then this, and probably wouldn't need to be reminded he was being mean.

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Re: "Induced Current" Discussion

Postby Senethior459 » Wed Nov 26, 2008 10:00 pm UTC

I had to do it... I'm surprised nobody else did.
http://community.discovery.com/eve/foru ... 8381944399

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Re: "Induced Current" Discussion

Postby scikidus » Wed Nov 26, 2008 10:03 pm UTC

phlip wrote:OK, so maths time: how strong are the deviations in the magnetic field caused by the solar wind, and how long would a piece of wire have to be to get a significant induced voltage from this?


The first part shouldn't be very hard. Heck, you could probably measure it from pictures. Without solar wind, the magnetic field should look something like this:
Image

However, instead solar wind squishes and stretches the field to look like this:
Image

--------

On a side note, with reference to above, during Shark Week Adam Savage revealed that one of his previous jobs was measuring and building models from pictures. We could probably get him to figure out the exact displacement from those two pictures. :wink:


(Oh, and first post.)
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Re: "Induced Current" Discussion

Postby GodShapedBullet » Wed Nov 26, 2008 10:20 pm UTC

Senethior459 wrote:I had to do it... I'm surprised nobody else did.
http://community.discovery.com/eve/foru ... 8381944399


Thetroll figured you out pretty quickly, huh?

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Re: "Induced Current" Discussion

Postby wubrgamer » Wed Nov 26, 2008 11:17 pm UTC

I'm just curious, how would one test the feasibility of the LHC's threat to the world? I think we need to work on procedural design to present to the mythbusters...

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Re: "Induced Current" Discussion

Postby serrath » Wed Nov 26, 2008 11:47 pm UTC

A few words to the troll quoted below: I kinda might've maybe mentioned something to that effect before you trolled about it, but I won't hold it against you that you missed that & decided to gripe about other people instead. (Hint, I lied about something, and it was that I won't hold that against you, buddy.)



radtea wrote:Can people please stop using the words "might" and "possibly" with regard to the LHC creating black holes that destroy the Earth?

I know that English is not the first language of everyone on this forum, especially the Americans, but anyone with sufficient English language skills to post here should have no trouble refining their vocabulary to capture the correct meaning of these terms, which can only be properly used to refer to things that are not impossible.

On the other hand, if your standard of "impossible" is so high as to think that black holes from the LHC "might" "possibly" destroy the Earth, you need to explain why you keep bringing that "possibility" up, but don't ever bring up everything else that has a higher probability, like WMDs being found in Iraq, the use of cell phones attracting passing asteroids that crash into the Earth killing everyone, the spontaneous combustion of Stephen Hawking causing the Earth's atmosphere to catch fire, and so on.

Is it just that you're too stupid to realize that these other phenomena are out there, waiting to kill us all? Or are you too brain-dead uncreative to think of them, therefore being reduced to banal repetition of this single idiotic meme?

And finally, since we know this meme has killed at least one person, how does it feel to be a murderer?

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Re: "Induced Current" Discussion

Postby Rysto » Thu Nov 27, 2008 12:13 am UTC

I was under the impression that the Mythbusters keep themselves in business.

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Re: "Induced Current" Discussion

Postby ConMan » Thu Nov 27, 2008 12:44 am UTC

Hmm. It seems Beret Guy (if indeed it is him - why is his beret see-through in this one?) is, despite his infinite wisdom regarding existence, dignity, pie and other baked goods, staples and who knows what else, is somewhat naïve when it comes to matters of science and/or internet memes as evidenced by this comic and Dark Flow, where he didn't recognise a "Your Mom" joke.
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Re: "Induced Current" Discussion

Postby Spoom » Thu Nov 27, 2008 1:41 am UTC

On this episode of MythBusters:

Adam and Jamie create a black hole! Will it destroy the Earth?

Also, more stupid cube and pyramid myths! Will Adam shoot himself?
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Re: "Induced Current" Discussion

Postby Maltese Gauze » Thu Nov 27, 2008 5:57 am UTC

wubrgamer wrote:I'm just curious, how would one test the feasibility of the LHC's threat to the world? I think we need to work on procedural design to present to the mythbusters...


Cosmic rays have been testing it for billions of years. We know that high-energy collisions of subatomic particles won't destroy the Earth because if they could, they already would have.

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Re: "Induced Current" Discussion

Postby lone_pear » Thu Nov 27, 2008 9:06 am UTC

Keeping it on-topic, I've always had the notion that World Destruction by the LHC could be summed up by this equation:

http://tinyurl.com/3x3l3a + http://tinyurl.com/5ubwv9

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Re: "Induced Current" Discussion

Postby Maltese Gauze » Thu Nov 27, 2008 10:12 am UTC

Unfortunately, a black hole doesn't look nearly as awesome as a katamari.

I think I might have to go play that game again.

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Re: "Induced Current" Discussion

Postby Susy » Thu Nov 27, 2008 2:04 pm UTC

Maltese Gauze wrote:
Unfortunately, a black hole doesn't look nearly as awesome as a katamari.

I think I might have to go play that game again.


Are you using the word "might" refering to an event that has a "high" possibility of not being imposible at all?? :roll:

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Re: "Induced Current" Discussion

Postby Zap » Thu Nov 27, 2008 2:32 pm UTC

No need to worry about LHC destroying the world for a while yet.

It's not as super-cool as they had hoped.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7632408.stm

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Re: "Induced Current" Discussion

Postby AYQC » Thu Nov 27, 2008 2:47 pm UTC

josephoenix wrote:I might possibly think you're a total ass-hat.

My hobby: sometimes when someone calls anyone an [adjective] ass-[noun], I mentally move the hyphen one word to the left. (I do this rarely)

hmm, now there's just this minor issue: what is a "total-ass hat"? :?

Anyways: I really like this comic (and #37 and its modifictions;).

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Re: "Induced Current" Discussion

Postby GemT » Thu Nov 27, 2008 6:09 pm UTC

josephoenix wrote:
radtea wrote:bring up everything else that has a higher probability, like WMDs being found in Iraq, the use of cell phones attracting passing asteroids that crash into the Earth killing everyone, the spontaneous combustion of Stephen Hawking causing the Earth's atmosphere to catch fire, and so on.

You do realise that you have just wrecked Randal's next three episodes, don't you?

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Re: "Induced Current" Discussion

Postby GemT » Thu Nov 27, 2008 6:14 pm UTC

scikidus wrote:
phlip wrote:OK, so maths time: how strong are the deviations in the magnetic field caused by the solar wind, and how long would a piece of wire have to be to get a significant induced voltage from this?


The first part shouldn't be very hard. Heck, you could probably measure it from pictures. Without solar wind, the magnetic field should look something like this:


Have you considered investing in some of randal's "actual size" stickers? I think they might be appropriate in this case.
http://store.xkcd.com/#ActualSizeStickers

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Re: "Induced Current" Discussion

Postby gormster » Fri Nov 28, 2008 2:55 am UTC

radtea wrote:Can people please stop using the words "might" and "possibly" with regard to the LHC creating black holes that destroy the Earth?

I know that English is not the first language of everyone on this forum, especially the Americans, but anyone with sufficient English language skills to post here should have no trouble refining their vocabulary to capture the correct meaning of these terms, which can only be properly used to refer to things that are not impossible.


Ah, but you are forgetting the wisdom of Dirk Gently, Holistic Detective.

"What did Sherlock Holmes always say? Once you eliminate the impossible, what remains must be true, however improbable."
"I reject that entirely. The impossible often has a kind of integrity about it which the merely improbable lacks. Have you ever been presented with an explanation for something which makes sense in every way, except that it is hopelessly improbable? Your first instinct is to say, "Yes, but he or she simply wouldn't do that." Take the wheelchair girl from today, for example: the idea that she is receiving this information through some psychic channel unknown to us is impossible, and therefore must be true, because the idea of her keeping up an elaborate hoax of no benefit to herself is hopelessly improbable. Impossible merely suggests that there is something we don't know about, and god knows there are enough of those. Improbable, however, runs contrary to something we do know about."

So I would say that the LHC is not going to destroy the world, because whilst this outcome is not impossible, it is hopelessly improbable.
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Re: "Induced Current" Discussion

Postby Ignifluous » Fri Nov 28, 2008 3:03 am UTC

<sigh> Why is it that I have to sound like a internet addict and say the meme made me join xkcd?

But maybe, just maybe, the meme tried to chase me away, and I fought it, I battled it even, and I succeeded in joining. Yeah. That's what happened. <points> You all saw it.

I feel better now.

Anyhow ... this has probably been posted here before somewhere (knowing the vast melange (variety not spice (hmm ... interesting "variety is the spice of life", where one can argue that both "variety" and "spice" could, at a stretch, be replaced with melange (my apologies for the nest parenthi ... I plead that my code is compiling ...))) of personalities present here, someone is bound to have), but in the context of the current comic, I felt that posting the following excellent camera footage of the LHC was required ....

http://www.cyriak.co.uk/lhc/lhc-webcams.html

Ig.

PS: This is an entirely factual video ... we just haven't noticed yet because the conversion front of the unreality wave is progressing so slowly ......

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Re: "Induced Current" Discussion

Postby Jamaican Castle » Fri Nov 28, 2008 5:52 am UTC

For the latest on LHC-induced world endings (with a 99.85% chance of catching world-ends by other sources!), I present:

Has The Large Hadron Collider Destroyed The World Yet?

Guaranteed accurate or your money back. Only valid in the Sol system. Void where prohibited by physical law. No purchase necessary. Actual odds of losing approximately 1:googol. Your millage may vary. Warranty void if parentheses opened or product exceeds c.
Last edited by Jamaican Castle on Fri Nov 28, 2008 8:34 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: "Induced Current" Discussion

Postby RanCorp » Fri Nov 28, 2008 2:15 pm UTC

Jamaican Castle wrote:... Actual odds of losing approximately 1:google. ...

Please do not misuse trademarks. The word you're looking for is "googol."

RanCorp

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Re: "Induced Current" Discussion

Postby scikidus » Fri Nov 28, 2008 2:17 pm UTC

Jamaican Castle wrote:For the latest on LHC-induced world endings (with a 99.85% chance of catching world-ends by other sources!), I present:

Has The Large Hadron Collider Destroyed The World Yet?

Guaranteed accurate or your money back. Only valid in the Sol system. Void where prohibited by physical law. No purchase necessary. Actual odds of losing approximately 1:google. Your millage may vary. Warranty void if parentheses opened or product exceeds c.

I love that site. I think the source code is the best bit.

Code: Select all

<script type="text/javascript">
if (!(typeof worldHasEnded == "undefined")) {
document.write("YUP.");
} else {
document.write("NOPE.");
}
</script>

[...]

<!-- if the lhc actually destroys the earth & this page isn't yet updated
please email mike@frantic.org to receive a full refund -->
Happy hollandaise!

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