0513: "Friends"

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Re: Friends Discussion

Postby Minchandre » Fri Dec 05, 2008 5:56 am UTC

Meh. I didn't find it particularly funny...I just felt kind of like he was trying to insult that segment of the population (which likely includes more than a few of his readers)

Ultimately, though, the measure of a comic is not who it insults, or what thoughts it provokes, but simply if it was funny. As I have already said, I think not...which makes this comic fail. :(

Obviously, you must now all cleave to my opinion.
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Re: "Friends" Discussion

Postby Whispering » Fri Dec 05, 2008 5:56 am UTC

Alt Text: Friends with detriments


Sounds like me with all my female friends before I got married.

No I just want to be friends


Or the best one:

I'm a lesbian


Then two weeks later she decided she was bi for one of my friends. *le sigh*

Oh well all the in the past now.
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Re: Friends Discussion

Postby cephalopod9 » Fri Dec 05, 2008 5:57 am UTC

Respect is slowly trapping someone in an unsattisfying relationship.

I'm debating whether or not to make this my new avatar.
friends.gif
friends.gif (5.96 KiB) Viewed 13448 times

hm, maybe I should change the timing.
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Re: Friends Discussion

Postby Devilsaur » Fri Dec 05, 2008 6:00 am UTC

This was a nice affirmation that the friend zone is ridiculous for both the guy (in the patheticness and plotting needed) and the girl (who gets to settle and feel unchallenged).
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Re: "Friends" Discussion

Postby Nevea » Fri Dec 05, 2008 6:00 am UTC

Kokuro wrote:Oh me yarm! I'm going through this issue right now! She's an amazing girl, and I realized about a week ago that after knowing her for almost a year I've fallen in love with her. But I have those exact same feelings as the guy in the comic. She just recently broke up with her boyfriend and I know this is probably my only chance, but if she doesn't like me the way I love her, I don't know if I'd be able to go on, knowing I f'd the chance to at least stay friends. So I'm doing everything I can just to stay close friends with her. It hurts so much. I don't fall in love easily, I've had thousands of crushes, but only three girls (her being the third) have ever made it to the love stage. I'm in love with her in every sense of the word. She's a beautiful girl with shoulder length dark blonde hair and the most beautiful hazel eyes you could ever look into. She's not huge in the chest area, but what she has is just right for her body. And her personality, Oh me yarm!!! She's sweet, and kind, and caring, and funny, and even a little dirty. I'll never forget one day we were standing there and she had her phone in her back pocket, all of sudden it started vibrating and she goes, "Ohh, I'm vibrating," and after checking the message she looks at me and kind of winks saying, "But I don't need a vibrator, I've got a boyfriend." Granted I'm sure she's as innocent as the day is long, but it's the naughtyness behind it that's what makes it so appealing. I'd litterally do anything for this girl, and while she thinks of me as a good friend, I know she doesn't think of me the way I think of her. Her birthday is coming up soon. I'm planning on getter her a card, a gift card to Dunkin, (she's in love with Dunkin and probably does run on it ¡This cheese is burning me!) and a single rose. I know she'll probably yell at me for it, saying she can't accept it all, and I plan on simply telling her that she's the only person at work I'd ever go to all the trouble for. Hopefully she'll finally realize I love her, and that knowledge will be enough for her. I'm not the greatest looking guy in the world, and I probalby don't deserve her love, but when I love someone, they're the only one I ever think of. So, wish me luck guys.


Not creepy at all.
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Re: Friends Discussion

Postby wodan46 » Fri Dec 05, 2008 6:02 am UTC

theta4 wrote:Nice soliloquy, stick man. But, it didn't work this time ;)

Actually it may still work. The girl has already moved to the dating a jerk state.
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Re: Friends Discussion

Postby Green9090 » Fri Dec 05, 2008 6:04 am UTC

This marks perhaps the first time ever that xkcd has taken me from a state of being in a relatively good mood, and changed it to being depressed. Usually it's the other way around :(
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Re: Friends Discussion

Postby Someursault » Fri Dec 05, 2008 6:09 am UTC

xkcd doesn't have to be funny if it's teaching important life lessons (like "Custom ringtones are ridiculous, stop using them"). This falls solidly in that category. Remember, he warns you against this behavior because he cares!
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Re: "Friends" Discussion

Postby caje » Fri Dec 05, 2008 6:16 am UTC

Kokuro wrote:Hopefully she'll finally realize I love her, and that knowledge will be enough for her. I'm not the greatest looking guy in the world, and I probalby don't deserve her love, but when I love someone, they're the only one I ever think of. So, wish me luck guys.

This will NOT work. Instead get her a 5 dollar gift certificate to McDonald's, at least you'll get some lulz out of it, but play it up BIG right before you give it to her.
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Re: "Friends" Discussion

Postby GodShapedBullet » Fri Dec 05, 2008 6:17 am UTC

Hopefully she doesn't read the forum because you just kind of gave away your element of surprise.

I mean, only one person could have the most beautiful hazel eyes you could ever look into, so she has to know you are talking about her.
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Re: "Friends" Discussion

Postby JBridge » Fri Dec 05, 2008 6:19 am UTC

I'm planning on getter her a card, a gift card to Dunkin, (she's in love with Dunkin and probably does run on it ¡This cheese is burning me!) and a single rose. I know she'll probably yell at me for it, saying she can't accept it all, and I plan on simply telling her that she's the only person at work I'd ever go to all the trouble for. Hopefully she'll finally realize I love her, and that knowledge will be enough for her. I'm not the greatest looking guy in the world, and I probalby don't deserve her love, but when I love someone, they're the only one I ever think of. So, wish me luck guys.


Show her this strip. Maybe put it in the card. Hopefully she'll make the connection, If not, at least you've hooked her on to xkcd. Actually, this strip (and some others) would make great Valentine's Day cards.
Last edited by JBridge on Fri Dec 05, 2008 7:17 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Friends Discussion

Postby Dnumde Setnad » Fri Dec 05, 2008 6:19 am UTC

Oh, this one is familiar.

I liked her, tried to be the nice guy, like the comic. WoW was our connection, she was in my class, I found out she played, and I played the nice guy. Then, her friend drops the ball by letting me know she was afraid that someone would think we were going on, and now, at age 14, she's "role-play-married" to God knows who as a night elf. They can never stumble in their relationship because they only meet in a fantasy world. Now, I'm roped in a friend zone. I even asked her if she wanted me to just disappear and never be seen again, if my association was such a horrible thing, but she insists I stay in the friend zone.
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Re: "Friends" Discussion

Postby datavortex » Fri Dec 05, 2008 6:20 am UTC

This is very reminiscent of the oldie but goodie from the Intellectual Whores:
http://www.laddertheory.com/
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Re: "Friends" Discussion

Postby Quixotess » Fri Dec 05, 2008 6:22 am UTC

My favorite part is the all-black panel with the guy selflessly offering the women internet hugs. Oh, is there anything he won't do for her?
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Re: Friends Discussion

Postby dennisw » Fri Dec 05, 2008 6:25 am UTC

wasp wrote:This is exactly what I do. Get out of my head!!!
It didn't work this time, though. It took me about e months to find out I remind her too much of her ex. ...*sigh*

But if it doesn't work out, you still usually end up with a friend. That's how I justify it. I assume I would get rejected if I just ask her out. Given that, the expected value is somewhat higher with this strategy. (Yes, I know this is a faulty assumption. Obviously I am just emotionally fragile).


I calculate that e months is approximately 82 days, 16 hours and 20 minutes. Sounds like she's a little slow on the uptake.
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Re: "Friends" Discussion

Postby Quixotess » Fri Dec 05, 2008 6:29 am UTC

pacific14586 wrote:1. Loneliness is spelled lonliness in the comic.

2. I hate when humor is mixed into an otherwise insightful comic. I've taken the liberty of making today's xkcd more real, more beautiful. http://www.isowantone.com/xkcd.jpg

What? No way! The whole point of the comic is what a hypocritical, cynical, disingenuous loser this woman's "friend" is. His vision of what will happen with her "giving in" to him is not supposed to be realistic, and ending the comic that way implies his vision is what happens. Instead, we end the comic with the woman rejecting his view of reality, which gives him another chance to display his hypocrisy.
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Re: "Friends" Discussion

Postby spacermase » Fri Dec 05, 2008 6:30 am UTC

For what it's worth, I long ago abandoned the method described in the comic for exactly those reasons (well, and it never really worked, anyway), and have been very upfront and blunt to people that I'm interested in.

That hasn't worked *either*, but at least you find out quicker and can move on with your life faster, instead of wasting years hoping a girl will fall for you.
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Re: "Friends" Discussion

Postby vodka.cobra » Fri Dec 05, 2008 6:32 am UTC

Oh man, in b4 crybabies.

You're all stuck in the friend zone. Haha!

Me? I'm a sociopath. Fuck people!
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Re: "Friends" Discussion

Postby TheHand » Fri Dec 05, 2008 6:37 am UTC

Yeah... I don't think it's a good approach, but I think that was part of the point.
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Re: "Friends" Discussion

Postby random_alias » Fri Dec 05, 2008 6:41 am UTC

Damnit, Randall! You've blown our cover.

Seriously... reality is what we think.

SO STOP BREAKING REALITY, DAMNIT!

:) Loved the comic.
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Re: Friends Discussion

Postby SocialSceneRepairman » Fri Dec 05, 2008 6:42 am UTC

I think far too many people are agreeing with this comic...missing the point juuust a little. Although it's kind of a...well-worn point, isn't it...?

Then again, I don't believe I could ever give anyone all they wanted in life, so my plan is just to have as much random sex as my looks and personality will allow me until I die old and alone with a nice snowglobe for company. (But I'm keeping the sled, dammit.)
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Re: "Friends" Discussion

Postby williamager » Fri Dec 05, 2008 6:43 am UTC

I certainly had a situation where this happened, in way, for almost two years; in fact, until two weeks ago. I backed out of events with people who were (and are) almost certainly interested in me (though some of them didn't and still don't have any chance, to be sure) in order to accept her invitations for events I knew I wouldn't enjoy as much, just to be with her; I watched as she went through various relationships, and tried to help her with her problems; and yet I never brought up my own feelings, except in the subtle and indirect ways that are so typical of my style of conversation. And yet, after one night where I met people far more similar to me in their personality, culture, and upbringing, that feeling was almost instantly lost - I now think that the reason was not so much some reluctance due to fear or concerns about losing her as a friend, but some vague concern that she wasn't really that like me, and any closer relationship with her would become awkward. I realized that there are, in fact, people who do recognize and like my indirect manner, and respond in kind, that there are people who enjoy the sort of life that I lead, and that they, unlike her, actually do seem interested in me beyond just friendship (I do hope this post doesn't end up being terribly awkward, because she, unlike those I'm involved with now, almost certainly reads xkcd).

For those who feel they are in the sort of situation described in the comic, it would be wise to consider the actual reasons one holds off from making any advances. With the romantic feelings gone, I actually like my position with her now: close enough of a friend that I can always enjoy being with her, and we'll always invite each other to various things, but not so close that our major differences will matter too much, or so close that we're obligated to invite each other to things that we wouldn't enjoy.
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Re: Friends Discussion

Postby foodeater184 » Fri Dec 05, 2008 6:45 am UTC

I've been in the afraid of rejection state many times, but oddly I've never been in the situation where a girl says she only likes me as a friend. Maybe because I'm a pussy and don't ask them out often enough, maybe because I have a shot :lol: (so many emoticons fit there..)

Also, it does get pretty creepy towards the end. That's where the real joke is, I didn't catch that the first time through.
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Re: "Friends" Discussion

Postby Ratclaw » Fri Dec 05, 2008 6:48 am UTC

Williamager kind of said what I was thinking. How much do you lose with just a close friendship compared to a romance (besides the obvious)? You have companionship, affection, and so on. You have to decide whether the things that go with a relationship mean that much to you.

And the two penultimate panels make it obvious what Randall thinks of this kind of thing.
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Re: Friends Discussion

Postby FiveFinger » Fri Dec 05, 2008 6:50 am UTC

Thanks xkcd! Now I feel great about myself.

How about the method of building up a friendship, and then straightforwardly asking them out? (Actually, it was more blunt than straightforward in my case.) Is that acceptable, or is that cruelly manipulative as well?
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Re: Friends Discussion

Postby telkanuru » Fri Dec 05, 2008 6:51 am UTC

This seems to happen to me, but I'm not actively plotting it.

I guess it's kind of like The Game...




Damn it!

...I just lost twenty dollars and my self respect :x

"The game" becomes twenty dollars and my self respect? The fuck?
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Re: "Friends" Discussion

Postby FiveFinger » Fri Dec 05, 2008 6:53 am UTC

vodka.cobra wrote:Oh man, in b4 crybabies.

You're all stuck in the friend zone. Haha!

Me? I'm a sociopath. Fuck people!


Well, yes, I believe that is the idea.
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Re: "Friends" Discussion

Postby baf » Fri Dec 05, 2008 6:56 am UTC

I mean, only one person could have the most beautiful hazel eyes you could ever look into, so she has to know you are talking about her.


Well, sure. She'd look at everyone else and say "No one else has the most beautiful hazel eyes you could ever look into, therefore it must be me." And then she'd kill herself that night. So if she's still alive tomorrow morning, I'll know that I have the most beautiful hazel eyes you could ever look into too!
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Re: "Friends" Discussion

Postby Waffles » Fri Dec 05, 2008 6:57 am UTC

vodka.cobra wrote:Me? I'm a sociopath. Fuck people!

You're my hero.

Quixotess wrote:What? No way! The whole point of the comic is what a hypocritical, cynical, disingenuous loser this woman's "friend" is. His vision of what will happen with her "giving in" to him is not supposed to be realistic, and ending the comic that way implies his vision is what happens. Instead, we end the comic with the woman rejecting his view of reality, which gives him another chance to display his hypocrisy.


Not quite. Thats what I kind of thought at first too, but when you take it deeper, you realize that her finding 'jerk' and him tearing 'jerk' down, means that he's trying the 'just friends' approach, and is actually the first step in his evil plan.

Also, people tend to think that if they declare their hopeful intentions, that the friendship is lost. Not necessarily true. The way its brought up and the way the aftermath is handled makes all the difference. Not saying that every situation can end up well, but you're not going to lose the good friend just for saying 'hey, could a relationship work here? I'm interested in you in that vein, I've cared about you a lot for a long time. No? Alright, then I'll do my best to move that interest elsewhere so it doesn't make our friendship too wierd.'

Seriously, being rejected by a good friend doesn't mean "everything is ruined forever" with that person. Try to trust me.
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Re: "Friends" Discussion

Postby aleflamedyud » Fri Dec 05, 2008 7:00 am UTC

datavortex wrote:This is very reminiscent of the oldie but goodie from the Intellectual Whores:
http://www.laddertheory.com/

No, it really isn't. Now you've been on Reddit too much (OK, Craigslist also carries this delusion-meme).

Women do not date "jerks" because those "jerks" are "alpha-males" or better physical specimens than nerds. They date "jerks" because A) most of them aren't actually jerks and B) women, like men, have to take what comes to them. If guy A has the balls to ask a woman out and guy B tries the "Friends" approach*, guy A deserves to get the girl and almost always does. Why? Because he used his chutzpah instead of deciding to live a lie.

It has nothing to do with "ladders" or any other method of imposing a total ordering on the set of all potential sexual/relationship partners, and everything to do with living an honest life.

Now everyone listen to Waffles.

* -- There is nothing wrong with being genuinely friendly to a girl. There is everything wrong with being friendly to get laid later.
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Re: "Friends" Discussion

Postby Sulix » Fri Dec 05, 2008 7:05 am UTC

In my years of lurking, I've had many "get out of my head Randall"TM moments.

This, however, is exactly how my life has been for the past five years (and continues to be).

Code: Select all
this->Sigh();


(Yes, I will post in the Intro thread -- any minute now. I promise :))
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Re: "Friends" Discussion

Postby random_alias » Fri Dec 05, 2008 7:06 am UTC

Interesting point. "Jerks" vs. "alpha-males"

In my experience:

a "jerk" is someone who sometimes thinks about what _they_ want, and acts upon it. Lesson: TAKING CARE OF YOURSELF IS NOT SELFISH.

A "jerk" is also someone who, *gasp* doesn't always put my needs first. Look up Ambrose Bierce's definition of egoist (I think).
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Re: "Friends" Discussion

Postby datavortex » Fri Dec 05, 2008 7:09 am UTC

aleflamedyud wrote:re: http://www.laddertheory.com/

It has nothing to do with "ladders" or any other method of imposing a total ordering on the set of all potential sexual/relationship partners, and everything to do with living an honest life.


Uh-huh. Sticking with the ladders here for plausibility reasons.
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Re: Friends Discussion

Postby littlesuz13 » Fri Dec 05, 2008 7:11 am UTC

telkanuru wrote:I guess it's kind of like The Game...


Damn you! I haven't lost twenty dollars and my self respect in a while!
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Re: "Friends" Discussion

Postby somdude04 » Fri Dec 05, 2008 7:12 am UTC

I was this guy. Did this for 4 years with 5 different girls, with gradual improvement.

The first time, she pre-emptively shot me down over AIM. She could tell I liked her, and they was no point lying and saying that I didn't have feelings for her. She told me it would never work between us, and now she's one of my closest female friends, and while I still think her choices in boyfriends have sucked, I don't want to date her anymore.

The second time, the girl started dating someone like me. We sat down and talked one day and I asked why it was him and not me. The simple answer was that he got there 3 years earlier and had been a friend that much longer. I knew I had no chance, because he was actually a perfect guy for her. They're happily married with a daughter now.

The third time I decided I needed to grow a pair and actually tell her my feelings before she started dating a jerk. So, I worked up the courage, walked to her apartment (she had been avoiding my calls since I had tried to make it obvious the day before but hadn't been direct) I get there, and he's there. We step outside, and have an awkward conversation. I get clarified that I have no shot, ever with her.

Girl #4. I hang out with her a ton, she's single, acting like we'd work as a couple, always mentioning similarities between me and her last boyfriend. I tell her I like her, she turns me down, but is never specific about why we couldn't date, couple months later starts dating a new guy, very similar to me. When I ask her what's different between me and him the only answer she can offer is that he's 2 inches taller. I realize she's a flake and I'm not interested.

Girl #5. I'm fairly direct, ask her on a date, but don't use the word date. I pay, we really hit it off, she's talking about how my eyes are beautiful and other datish type things. I drive her back to her apartment, tell her I'm interested, she tells me she doesn't have enough time. After seeing her schedule following that for the next few months, she was actually being honest. Says she's a friends first for a long time kind of girl. I ask her how she knows that, especially if she's never dated anyone (whether friend first or not)

Which brings us to the end of the cycle and girl #6. By now I've fixed my pattern a bit. I'm more direct, upfront. If I like someone, they're going to know quickly. I start hitting on a girl I like, we hit it off, start hanging out that week, and less than two weeks later are boyfriend and girlfriend. We've been dating now three weeks and it's been absolutely perfect. Also, now that I'm dating her, I realize in each of those past relationships, I was settling a bit. Sure, they were fun to be around and attractive, and occasionally might be interested in a video game or something, but me and my girlfriend just... fit. Three weeks in and one of us can simulate the other in conversation and hold both sides of the discussion solo, match the other's thoughts completely, and yet putting words in each other's mouths makes neither of us angry. Even if this doesn't work out in the long run, I would never settle for anything less than this ever again.
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Re: Friends Discussion

Postby littlesuz13 » Fri Dec 05, 2008 7:15 am UTC

agree with telkanuru... wtf... "The Game" becomes twenty dollars and my self respect
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Re: "Friends" Discussion

Postby vodka.cobra » Fri Dec 05, 2008 7:17 am UTC

FiveFinger wrote:
vodka.cobra wrote:Oh man, in b4 crybabies.

You're all stuck in the friend zone. Haha!

Me? I'm a sociopath. Fuck people!


Well, yes, I believe that is the idea.

But not all at once collectively.
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Re: "Friends" Discussion

Postby Flewellyn » Fri Dec 05, 2008 7:21 am UTC

datavortex wrote:
aleflamedyud wrote:re: http://www.laddertheory.com/

It has nothing to do with "ladders" or any other method of imposing a total ordering on the set of all potential sexual/relationship partners, and everything to do with living an honest life.


Uh-huh. Sticking with the ladders here for plausibility reasons.


But the ladders are not at all plausible, or based on anything other than the writer's own mentality, which is itself skewed. The author, who is a man, purports to understand the way women think, that is, in terms of two separate "ladders", without ever actually asking women if they think like this. (I have in fact done so, and here's a hint: in general, they do not.) Also, he purports to understand how all men think,
i.e., in terms of one ladder, which is again, not the case. And he has absolutely nothing to base this on.

He calls the putative theory "funny", which is perhaps subjective, but I didn't laugh. And he calls it "scientific", which is not subjective, and easily disproven by the fact that he never shows any sources, provides any hard data, or does anything other than assert without backup that these claims of his are true.

Really, the whole problem with the "friends with detriments" approach is that it's dishonest. I find it works better to just honestly, straightforwardly say to someone "I'm attracted to you, what do you say?" Then if they say "no thanks" for whatever reason, pursuing an honest friendship is still possible. On the other hand, if they say "yes", you can actually pursue a romantic relationship without any deceit, and one that can actually work out well because it's an honest relationship.

Yes, occasionally, two people who have been friends for a long time can develop romantic feelings for each other, but this only works if they're...wait for it...HONEST with each other.

The requirement for honesty in a working relationship is something that has actually been studied; ask any sociologist or psychologist, especially a marriage counselor. This "Ladder Theory", on the other hand, is axiomatic: it's "true" because he says so, and that's the basis of the entire system.

So by all means, stick with the ladders if you wish. Me, I'll be over here, treating women like human beings.
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Re: "Friends" Discussion

Postby thret » Fri Dec 05, 2008 7:24 am UTC

richlayers wrote:I can't decide if it's worse to be the guy or the girl in this situation. I think I'd prefer to be the jerk.


QFT.
thret
 
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Re: "Friends" Discussion

Postby wing » Fri Dec 05, 2008 7:25 am UTC

Dear Randall: FUCK YOU!

And to think, I'd almost recovered.
I AM A SEXY, SHOELESS GOD OF WAR!
Akula wrote:Our team has turned into this hate-fueled juggernaut of profit. It's goddamn wonderful.
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wing
the /b/slayer
 
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