0520: "Cuttlefish"

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Tycho
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Re: "Cuttlefish" Discussion

Postby Tycho » Mon Dec 22, 2008 10:01 pm UTC

Well I haven't read all of the comments on this thread, but as a biologist let me tell you I found todays comic quite hilarious! And rest assured my friend: we are not training cuttlefish to get or kill you physicists. Oh and we are totally not transfecting nor training tardigrades to do it either! Really, we are not!

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Re: "Cuttlefish" Discussion

Postby achan1058 » Mon Dec 22, 2008 10:03 pm UTC

Aetius wrote:I'm a Physics-Biology person. I can deal with a science that makes sense and has rules and relationships, and I can deal with a science that doesn't and requires you to memorize everything, but I can't deal with the bastard child of the two known as Chemistry. So there are rules except when they don't apply? WHAT IS THIS MADNESS?!
It's called English.
mgcclx wrote:Mathematicians define they would beat every other science and tries to prove the consistency of the system.
And when they have succeeded, they realized that their system must be inconsistent because of Godel's Incompleteness Theorem.
Last edited by achan1058 on Mon Dec 22, 2008 10:10 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.

Werts
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Re: "Cuttlefish" Discussion

Postby Werts » Mon Dec 22, 2008 10:04 pm UTC

cbhl wrote:He also mentioned that seeing someone who is "Chemistry-Physics" or "Chemistry-Biology" was a lot more common than seeing someone who is "Physics-Biology".


I myself am more of a "Physics-Biology" person as well.

Anyway, an anamalocaris is a much more versatile weapon than a cuttlefish. :P

I'll be stocking up.

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Re: "Cuttlefish" Discussion

Postby sourmìlk » Mon Dec 22, 2008 10:54 pm UTC

My best bet is on the robot revolution.
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Re: "Cuttlefish" Discussion

Postby Timequake » Mon Dec 22, 2008 10:58 pm UTC

Biologists: army of Cuttlefish, can be stopped by computer science because robots know no fear
Chemists: Poisoning, can be stopped by biologists, many of whom share this knowledge and know its effects
Physicists: can construct any number of doomsday devices, which can be sabotaged by chemists (like LHC was disabled by (accidental) superconductor coolant leak)
Computer Science: robot army, can be stopped by the physicists with their technology
And, of course, the engineers are everyone's minions
If the mathematicians manage to divide by zero, however, it will be the end of us all.
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Re: "Cuttlefish" Discussion

Postby ConMan » Mon Dec 22, 2008 11:07 pm UTC

achan1058 wrote:
mgcclx wrote:Mathematicians define they would beat every other science and tries to prove the consistency of the system.
And when they have succeeded, they realized that their system must be inconsistent because of Godel's Incompleteness Theorem.


Well, no, if they prove it's consistent, then it's either incomplete or unable to deal with arithmetic. The second's probably more fun.
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Re: "Cuttlefish" Discussion

Postby Tycho » Mon Dec 22, 2008 11:20 pm UTC

Timequake wrote:Biologists: army of Cuttlefish, can be stopped by computer science because robots know no fear
Chemists: Poisoning, can be stopped by biologists, many of whom share this knowledge and know its effects
Physicists: can construct any number of doomsday devices, which can be sabotaged by chemists (like LHC was disabled by (accidental) superconductor coolant leak)
Computer Science: robot army, can be stopped by the physicists with their technology
And, of course, the engineers are everyone's minions
If the mathematicians manage to divide by zero, however, it will be the end of us all.


LOL!

Bear in mind my friend, Cuttlefish can be made to feel no fear! Also we could just make an army of Praying mantises, those can make a robot shit his pants anytime. Specially if we genetically modify them to you know, spin spider webs, have a calcareous exoskeleton, a lion's growl, and erm... a shark's mouth. yeah that will teach any robot a lesson. Also they can reproduce quite fast and quite more cheaply, than any robot.. Muahahahaha...

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Re: "Cuttlefish" Discussion

Postby Tiberius Gracchus » Mon Dec 22, 2008 11:25 pm UTC

Timequake wrote:Chemists: Poisoning, can be stopped by biologists, many of whom share this knowledge and know its effects

That's where organometalic chemists come in. They can kill you with anything in the periodic table, including things you haven't seen. And good luck making a cuttlefish that can stand up to HCl.
By the way, physicists have the really big bombs.

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Re: "Cuttlefish" Discussion

Postby Kawa » Mon Dec 22, 2008 11:43 pm UTC

Meteorswarm wrote:Really, the only reason biologists haven't taken over the world yet is their pervasive fear of mathematics.

I actually sometimes think it's mathematicians' fear of biology since mathematics is so traditionally taught with physics examples instead of biology ones. (Then again, my marine biologist boyfriend is researching into using neural networks to model protein pathways...) Either way, the Society for Mathematical Biology is working on that.

Nyerguds wrote:According to this site they are so good they can imitate a chess board pattern.

Unfortunately, their ability is greatly hampered by the fact they're colourblind :|


Actually the cells involved can detect light frequency to *some* degree so they change color independently of whether or not the cuttlefish can see it. CRAZY!
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Re: "Cuttlefish" Discussion

Postby Xevoros » Tue Dec 23, 2008 12:23 am UTC

Tycho wrote:
Timequake wrote:Biologists: army of Cuttlefish, can be stopped by computer science because robots know no fear
Chemists: Poisoning, can be stopped by biologists, many of whom share this knowledge and know its effects
Physicists: can construct any number of doomsday devices, which can be sabotaged by chemists (like LHC was disabled by (accidental) superconductor coolant leak)
Computer Science: robot army, can be stopped by the physicists with their technology
And, of course, the engineers are everyone's minions
If the mathematicians manage to divide by zero, however, it will be the end of us all.


¡This cheese is burning me!!

Bear in mind my friend, Cuttlefish can be made to feel no fear! Also we could just make an army of Praying mantises, those can make a robot shit his pants anytime. Specially if we genetically modify them to you know, spin spider webs, have a calcareous exoskeleton, a lion's growl, and erm... a shark's mouth. yeah that will teach any robot a lesson. Also they can reproduce quite fast and quite more cheaply, than any robot.. Muahahahaha...


Why do that? why not http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mantis_shrimp they can break bone with a single hit,have hyperspectral vision,can generate temperatures up to several thousand kelvin,are highly intelligent,and can accelerate their arms about the same speed as a .22 calibur bullet! Breed them with cuttlefish,and we have a death machine!
edit:minor grammatical and spelling edit
Last edited by Xevoros on Tue Dec 23, 2008 12:49 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.

Tycho
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Re: "Cuttlefish" Discussion

Postby Tycho » Tue Dec 23, 2008 12:46 am UTC

Xevoros wrote:Why do that? why not http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mantis_shrimp they can break bone with a single hit,hyperspectral vision,can generate temperatures up to several thousand kelvin,are highly inteligent,and their arms accelerate about the same speed as a .22 calibur bullet! Breed them with cuttlefish,and we have a death machine!


Touché, my friend! You have reminded me how mother nature is just beyond anything we humans can hope to ever create or achieve... even if we are a part of mother nature.

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Re: "Cuttlefish" Discussion

Postby LtStorm » Tue Dec 23, 2008 12:54 am UTC

Tiberius Gracchus wrote:
Timequake wrote:Chemists: Poisoning, can be stopped by biologists, many of whom share this knowledge and know its effects

That's where organometalic chemists come in. They can kill you with anything in the periodic table, including things you haven't seen. And good luck making a cuttlefish that can stand up to HCl.
By the way, physicists have the really big bombs.


Chemists are already poisoning you. Bisphenol A? It's in everything plastic, and you're surrounded by plastics....

And those really big bombs have some very complex chemistry in their designs to make them actually work. Without that all you have is a lump of radioactive metal.

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Re: "Cuttlefish" Discussion

Postby TheCitadel » Tue Dec 23, 2008 12:57 am UTC

Cuttlefish are really cool :) I hope I'm not off topic or something, but:
I'm already tired of the 'who knows more Maths' discussions and I'm only just entering the university. Anyway, I have some friends who are physicists and from what I gather they have a pretty good knowledge of applied Maths. Biologists are having less and less Maths, at least in my country (I know this because I have checked, since I want to study Biology and love Maths)
As far as I'm concerned, and I don't know why, physicists and biologists don't like chemists pretty much. I used to like Chemistry till I learned that the subjects that I liked actually belonged to Physics, only they were included in Chemistry in high school for unknown purposes (some quantum mechanics issues). I'm not sure it's a matter of competition between the efficiency of different treatments of the same subject, because the Science Faculty here has a lot of physicists, chemists and biologists working in the same projects with the same amount of success. It's not like they could do without chemists.
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Re: "Cuttlefish" Discussion

Postby Demonsloth » Tue Dec 23, 2008 1:39 am UTC

Go cuttlefish! (That's more of a cheer than a command, btw)
Where in this chemist vs physicist vs biologist thing do the in-betweeners fit? People like biochemists and such who work in both fields? Do they sit it out or are they caught in the crossfire?

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Re: "Cuttlefish" Discussion

Postby achan1058 » Tue Dec 23, 2008 1:49 am UTC

ConMan wrote:
achan1058 wrote:
mgcclx wrote:Mathematicians define they would beat every other science and tries to prove the consistency of the system.
And when they have succeeded, they realized that their system must be inconsistent because of Godel's Incompleteness Theorem.


Well, no, if they prove it's consistent, then it's either incomplete or unable to deal with arithmetic. The second's probably more fun.
You mean it's either inconsistent or unable to deal with arithmetic, as the 2nd theorem says that a consistent system cannot prove its consistency.

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Re: "Cuttlefish" Discussion

Postby Tycho » Tue Dec 23, 2008 1:52 am UTC

Demonsloth wrote:Go cuttlefish! (That's more of a cheer than a command, btw)
Where in this chemist vs physicist vs biologist thing do the in-betweeners fit? People like biochemists and such who work in both fields? Do they sit it out or are they caught in the crossfire?


Yeah you are sad and lonely creatures! Personally I think of you biochemist more of being chemists... and I suppose chemists equate you more towards being bio-people... so are pretty like... science's pariahs...
heh!

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Re: "Cuttlefish" Discussion

Postby atomfullerene » Tue Dec 23, 2008 2:25 am UTC

I just got a Master's in Marine Biology a few days ago, and I approve of this comic. I want to put out a plea to all my fellow scientists. We must stop this infighting. The real enemy are those heathens in humanities and the heretics in the so-called social sciences! They plot to turn us against each other. But by our powers combined...Physics! Chemistry! Biology! Computer Science! Engineering! we can reign supreme! (note: I really want to see a late 80's cartoon visual of this)

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Re: "Cuttlefish" Discussion

Postby Mavrisa » Tue Dec 23, 2008 2:44 am UTC

The more I learn about DNA, the more amazed I am at how similar it is to machine code.

I'm really surprised some CS people haven't gotten on making an assembly language for DNA.
Or at least writing straight machine code / base pairs like Woz did for the Apple II...

Start from scratch, just make a bacteria that divides a few times before it runs out of energy. 1 chromosome. We can take care of eating later. A proof of concept, I beg you.


Oh, it's well on its way. Craig Venter is leading the group which presents the best example of this I've ever seen.
http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/crai ... _life.html
It's a long, somewhat dry video, but the concepts really are fascinating.
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Re: "Cuttlefish" Discussion

Postby MuToiD_MaN » Tue Dec 23, 2008 3:21 am UTC

For more reasons to fear cuttlefish, you should go here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pfeffer%27 ... Cuttlefish

This one's got a similarly lethal toxin as what the Blue-Ringed Octopus has in order to make it the most deadly poisonous creature on Earth.
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Re: "Cuttlefish" Discussion

Postby Doodle77 » Tue Dec 23, 2008 3:58 am UTC

moonlitfractal wrote:
philsov wrote:Funny, I always saw the chemists and the biologists joining forces to kill the physicists.


As a biologist, I can say that that's not likely. Maybe because of the healthy separation between the fields of biology and physics their practitioners have little to find conflict over. Myself, I tend to believe that it has to do with an inherent evil present in the discipline of chemistry (making up non SI units just to drive the rest of us mad and so on). When the war comes, the biochemists will have to chose sides. Let us hope they chose wisely.

Astrophysicists make up even more non-SI units...

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Re: "Cuttlefish" Discussion

Postby jaded » Tue Dec 23, 2008 4:26 am UTC

And who will join the linguistics majors? We can beat your fancy freeze rays with ... words ...

Or not. It's not as showy.

(Experiment: lol :lol: lol'd loled :D 'lol lol' lol:)

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Re: "Cuttlefish" Discussion

Postby my_ledge_ends » Tue Dec 23, 2008 4:48 am UTC

RockoTDF wrote:
my_ledge_ends wrote:
RockoTDF wrote:Also, on a more technical note, the proper term is "the animals learned to..." not "we trained them to..."


...Wouldn't it actually be "we conditioned them to..."?


Nope. "Learn" is very general, "conditioned" is more specific to a simple stimulus-response or a basic operant task.


Right. The generality of "learn" obfuscates the fact that the new behavior was instilled by something other than the cuttlefish. With "conditioned," and the subsequent operant implication, we know that their behavior has been modified by an outside source.

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Re: "Cuttlefish" Discussion

Postby Glenn Magus Harvey » Tue Dec 23, 2008 5:31 am UTC

Randall Munroe could say:
Cuttlefish! I choose you!


(If this joke has been done before, I apologize. But I'm too lazy to trudge through the rest of the posts to check.)

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Re: "Cuttlefish" Discussion

Postby Anoria » Tue Dec 23, 2008 5:51 am UTC

As much as I agree with atomfullerene's suggestion that we all band together and wipe out the non-sciences first, I do see some advantages to this interdisciplinary war. Mostly in that when I go back to get a physics degree after graduating in chemistry this spring, I'd like to be able to blame my grades on direct sabotage from the physicists.

Nobody has pointed out yet that a big advantage that chemists have is that we could weed out a good portion of the competition just by singing the elements song until your brains start leaking out your ears. (Or maybe I only have the power to annoy people to death because I'm a little sister, not because I'm a chemist? Not sure about that one.)

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Re: "Cuttlefish" Discussion

Postby Nasaniaru » Tue Dec 23, 2008 5:54 am UTC

I don't know if anyone has said this yet but I have always thought that Cephalopods were the most intelligent species excluding velociraptors (Sorry Randall) If it weren't for the fact that they don't have the advantage of living on land like humans, they would probably be the rulers of the world. The reason why I say this is because of the fact that if some of the cephalopods redirected some of the intelligence needed to create camoflouge into memory and inquisitiveness, I'm sure that would give cephalopods a far greater intelligence quotent. I also will succumb to our soon to be tentacled overlords because of this show that was shown on the Discovery Channel called "The Future is Wild" which made the bold prediction that after the humans die out, the next forerunners of civilization will be the descendants of squid in the year 200,000,000 c.e. called Squibbons.
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Re: "Cuttlefish" Discussion

Postby Chaz » Tue Dec 23, 2008 6:31 am UTC

Good to know I'm not the only one who drinks out of Erlenmeyers...

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Re: "Cuttlefish" Discussion

Postby LuckyDucky » Tue Dec 23, 2008 6:36 am UTC

cbhl wrote:This comic reminds me of something that my Grade 12 chemistry teacher told me: that most people are good at two out of the three main sciences.

He also mentioned that seeing someone who is "Chemistry-Physics" or "Chemistry-Biology" was a lot more common than seeing someone who is "Physics-Biology".


Well I rocked at biology freshman year, and I'm getting owned by chemistry. I'll take physics next year and see. Of course, all we're doing in chemistry is learning all these wavelength energy conversion or electron-filled diagrams. I suck so hard at those because the teacher so far is teaching the rigid stuff. I actually failed my last test on something about bonding, getting me a B that 9-weeks. EFFING MESSED UP ELECTRONEGATIVITY AND BONDS. I for some reason thought that polar covalent>1.67>ionic. WHAT THE HELL WAS I THINKING?

I really dig the conceptual stuff like why stuff are the way they are. I *think* we cover that the coming semester so let's see how I do :P

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Re: "Cuttlefish" Discussion

Postby Belial » Tue Dec 23, 2008 7:01 am UTC

atomfullerene wrote: The real enemy are those heathens in humanities and the heretics in the so-called social sciences! They plot to turn us against each other. But by our powers combined...Physics! Chemistry! Biology! Computer Science! Engineering! we can reign supreme! (note: I really want to see a late 80's cartoon visual of this)


.....Well hold on. Let's just say, hypothetically, that there was a superior race of avian/reptilian death machines lurking in your midst.

There's a chance, and I'm not committing to anything here, that the prospect of a good novel or a pleasant poem now and again is the only thing keeping them from just slaughtering you all outright.

Hypothetically.

Nasaniaru wrote:I don't know if anyone has said this yet but I have always thought that Cephalopods were the most intelligent species excluding velociraptors (Sorry Randall) If it weren't for the fact that they don't have the advantage of living on land like humans, they would probably be the rulers of the world. The reason why I say this is because of the fact that if some of the cephalopods redirected some of the intelligence needed to create camoflouge into memory and inquisitiveness, I'm sure that would give cephalopods a far greater intelligence quotent.


Well, it's hard to say, because cephalopods have a very *different* approach to intelligence and to brains in general than most land animals we're aware of. Distributed processing, decentralized ganglia and such. Their "brain" isn't as big or as central a part of their nervous system as ours is, which means that the way they think would probably be very, very weird compared to us. The kind of abstract thought we manage might not work in that kind of setup, or it might come about in some totally different way that we don't have a concept for.

Likewise, to really approach human levels they would need communication. Currently, they use their colour changes for that purpose. If, as you suggest, they somehow lost the ability to colour-change and somehow rededicated that energy and processing power to straight-up abstract neural processing (which isn't a particularly easy change), they would be SOL on a means of communication. They could learn how to make mouth noises, I suppose, but that would, in turn, require the formation of new neural, respiratory, and oral structures that would probably take up as much energy as the camouflage did anyway, if not more. Or else they could be relegated to the status of very, very intelligent but solitary animals who ultimately never go anywhere due to their inability to collaborate.
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Re: "Cuttlefish" Discussion

Postby Volkov » Tue Dec 23, 2008 7:10 am UTC

Well, I'm a biology major, and I'm gonna have to side with the chemists. They make better alcohol than the physicists. If you know biologists, you'll know that alcohol is important. I may leave the physicists alone though, in favor of wiping out the sociologists, anthropologists, and psychologists with my cephalopoid minions. I'm all for taking out the soft (social) sciences that don't even know the meaning of the words "hypothesis testing" before I start going after the hard sciences. Well, I might include anthropology in the category of hard science, but I'm putting it on notice. They need to clean up their act. Of course, theoretical physicists need to start admitting that their "theories" are in fact hypotheses as well. String theory is not a theory, until we get some observational data that agrees with it's predictions. Still better than sociology though, sociology is dead to me.

(Sorry Stephen Colbert, I totally stole your lines here)

Historians though, are to be left alone.

And good luck making a cuttlefish that can stand up to HCl.


HCl? Bah, that's no big deal. Just neutralize it with some NaOH. Gives you salt and H20, which a cuttlefish lives in anyway. of course that titration is long and tedious, so I might just heavily buffer the cuttlefish tank and team up with the CS guys to give the tank robotic legs. A little more HCl in the tank? Who cares!

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Re: "Cuttlefish" Discussion

Postby arden13 » Tue Dec 23, 2008 7:23 am UTC

I'm a Biochem major, am i just screwed like a bastard hemaphroditic child of romeo and juliet?

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Re: "Cuttlefish" Discussion

Postby Luthen » Tue Dec 23, 2008 8:20 am UTC

Belial wrote:
atomfullerene wrote: The real enemy are those heathens in humanities and the heretics in the so-called social sciences! They plot to turn us against each other. But by our powers combined...Physics! Chemistry! Biology! Computer Science! Engineering! we can reign supreme! (note: I really want to see a late 80's cartoon visual of this)


.....Well hold on. Let's just say, hypothetically, that there was a superior race of avian/reptilian death machines lurking in your midst.

There's a chance, and I'm not committing to anything here, that the prospect of a good novel or a pleasant poem now and again is the only thing keeping them from just slaughtering you all outright.

Hypothetically.
Does someone need to go to the confessions thread?

arden13 wrote:I'm a Biochem major, am i just screwed like a bastard hemaphroditic child of romeo and juliet?
More importantly how did two dead teenagers have a kid?
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Re: "Cuttlefish" Discussion

Postby arden13 » Tue Dec 23, 2008 8:27 am UTC

Luthen wrote: More importantly how did two dead teenagers have a kid?


Its in a parallel universe where Shakespeare decided that they were going to live. (because saying it is 'hypothetical' is just too easy)

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Re: "Cuttlefish" Discussion

Postby ThemePark » Tue Dec 23, 2008 11:55 am UTC

atomfullerene wrote:I just got a Master's in Marine Biology a few days ago, and I approve of this comic. I want to put out a plea to all my fellow scientists. We must stop this infighting. The real enemy are those heathens in humanities and the heretics in the so-called social sciences! They plot to turn us against each other. But by our powers combined...Physics! Chemistry! Biology! Computer Science! Engineering! we can reign supreme! (note: I really want to see a late 80's cartoon visual of this)

It is sad that I, by that line, knew what was gonna happen. :(

Glenn Magus Harvey wrote:Randall Munroe could say:
Cuttlefish! I choose you!


(If this joke has been done before, I apologize. But I'm too lazy to trudge through the rest of the posts to check.)

Actually, no it hasn't been done before, in this thread. Well played, sir.

Somehow, I wouldn't be surprised if the Pokemon makers are running out of ideas and will turn to real animals noone have ever heard of in the next versions, thus Cuttlefish will be born.
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Re: "Cuttlefish" Discussion

Postby Alcazabedabra » Tue Dec 23, 2008 1:03 pm UTC

In the last panel, the drinking stickman could either be leaning back as he drinks with an arm thrown back, or leaning into it.

I've seen drunks lean *way* forward as they drink... it's as though the force of the alcohol hitting the backs of their throats is something they have to compensate for, or maybe they're expecting a stiff breeze from that direction, I don't know.

I think it's a little funnier if he's leaning forward as he drinks.

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Re: "Cuttlefish" Discussion

Postby Jarn » Tue Dec 23, 2008 1:05 pm UTC

I'd just like to point out that when it comes right down to it, any competition among science and techies is probably going to go to the Engineers. Because at most schools all types of engineers take the same classes freshman (and sometimes sophomore) year we're much more used to collaboration over competition among the disciplines, giving us access to a much broader range of knowledge: aerospace, biomedical, chemical, computer, electrical, mechanical, nuclear... it goes on and on. There's so many more I didn't even list!

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Re: "Cuttlefish" Discussion

Postby Belial » Tue Dec 23, 2008 1:14 pm UTC

Having spent most of my career-time thus far (not a very long time, I'll grant) working with engineers......

I'm profoundly un-worried.
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Re: "Cuttlefish" Discussion

Postby Iluvatar » Tue Dec 23, 2008 2:46 pm UTC

Forget Comp Sci - we Software Engineering majors will have the world taken over any day now. We just need to put some last minute touches on the code to do it. Some minor bug fixes. Some new feature requests. Some documentation and testing we didn't get around to. We're almost done - next release, I swear. You know what they say about the last 10% of a software project...

Also a Political Science minor. I figure we'll rule whoever wins the discipline war (great name for a book or short story), assuming we don't get destroyed in it for not being a real science. :)
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Re: "Cuttlefish" Discussion

Postby Broklynite » Tue Dec 23, 2008 3:18 pm UTC

It's funny in particular because as a chemist, I am constantly joking with the Biologists I know about ganging up together to take down those insufferable Physicists.

No, seriously, I've had it up to here with damn physicists. They think they're so hot because they made a nuke back in the 40's. Well, what have they done for us since? That's right- nothing.

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Re: "Cuttlefish" Discussion

Postby Arancaytar » Tue Dec 23, 2008 3:28 pm UTC

vodka.cobra wrote:PZ Myers is going to be so pissed that you exposed his plan, Randall. Although I think it would be more "kill the creationists" than anything.


The irony being that the killer cuttlefish are intelligently designed.
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Re: "Cuttlefish" Discussion

Postby markkat » Tue Dec 23, 2008 3:55 pm UTC

Being a physicist turned biologist, I am all for this.

I recall having a Chemistry book the was titled: "Chemistry: The Central Science"

Yeah, 'Central Science' -If you have to say it...

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