0541: "TED Talk"

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Re: "TED Talk" Discussion

Postby Kitsusyn » Mon Feb 09, 2009 6:28 pm UTC

Back in 2007 furry-bashing would have been considered relevant, but you are late to the party in mocking us. Not fashionably late either. ¬_¬
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Re: "TED Talk" Discussion

Postby Moz » Mon Feb 09, 2009 6:35 pm UTC

Uniqueuponhim wrote:The answer is simple: use dashes instead of parentheses

Linux - or BSD :) - would


also, the alt-text today was much funnier than the comic

Those are hyphens (technically hyphen-minuses). Parenthetical statements are set off with em dashes (—), not hyphens. At least you didn't use that horrible double-hyphen thing (--) that I see everywhere.

Some style guides recommend using en dashes (–) surrounded by spaces, but this is utter nonsense and looks like trash.

But, like you said, using dashes instead of round brackets is an option. If the software doesn't support them, pester the developers, because honestly Unicode should be supported by everything by now.
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Re: "TED Talk" Discussion

Postby incongruity » Mon Feb 09, 2009 7:14 pm UTC

Mr. Munroe has has indeed been banned from PyCon. Just to clear that up. :D
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Re: "TED Talk" Discussion

Postby GemT » Mon Feb 09, 2009 7:22 pm UTC

flexfalelo wrote:I use backwards smileys (:

Advantages:
- No annoying emoticon replacements.
- Smile looks down on the sentence it applies to.
- Slightly better bracket performance (this is an example (: )


Another option would be Spanish-style smilies (:where you start with a reversed smily and end with a normal smily:)
Of course it looks a bit strange with frownys :(so what's new):
¿How does that work for you?
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Re: "TED Talk" Discussion

Postby branan » Mon Feb 09, 2009 7:23 pm UTC

incongruity wrote:Mr. Munroe has has indeed been banned from PyCon. Just to clear that up. :D


The only reference to "web spiders vs red spiders" that Google finds is that blog post. If Randall had given such a talk, It should be all over the intertubes. Not having read the PyCon blog means I don't know if joke posts are common or not but... something's a bit weird with that.
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Re: "TED Talk" Discussion

Postby ThemePark » Mon Feb 09, 2009 7:43 pm UTC

incongruity wrote:Mr. Munroe has has indeed been banned from PyCon. Just to clear that up. :D

This is what I love most about comics. When there's some kind of ping pong between the involved. Awesome move by PyCon.

branan wrote:
incongruity wrote:Mr. Munroe has has indeed been banned from PyCon. Just to clear that up. :D


The only reference to "web spiders vs red spiders" that Google finds is that blog post. If Randall had given such a talk, It should be all over the intertubes. Not having read the PyCon blog means I don't know if joke posts are common or not but... something's a bit weird with that.

PyCon wrote:Registration volunteers have been instructed to refuse admission to Randall Munroe personally, and in fact, to any stick figures who may attempt to register, particularly if they are wearing hats.

This paragraph didn't tip you off?
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Re: "TED Talk" Discussion

Postby jsoft » Mon Feb 09, 2009 8:03 pm UTC

I can think of two possible solutions (besides the obvious one of escaping the smile :\))

Linux ((or BSD :)) would ...

OR (Stand Back!)

/Linux \(or ((Net)|(Free)|(Open))?BSD [:;]'?\\[()]\) would \.\.\./
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Re: "TED Talk" Discussion

Postby vodka.cobra » Mon Feb 09, 2009 8:06 pm UTC

Kitsusyn wrote:Back in 2007 furry-bashing would have been considered relevant, but you are late to the party in mocking us. Not fashionably late either. ¬_¬

Irrelevance doesn't necessarily make it boring. :P
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Re: "TED Talk" Discussion

Postby dskarbek » Mon Feb 09, 2009 8:22 pm UTC

The square bracket solution occurred to me at first, but I think [this sort :) ] still looks confusing. I think the following is the best I've come up with:

...linux -- or BSD :) -- would...

It separates the parenthetical comment from the rest of the sentence and is syntactically different enough to not be visually parsed as part of the emoticon. Technically using the dash separator signals a different level of parenthetical comment than the parenthesis does, but I think that at the point you are using emoticons you have already thrown out the finer rules of punctuation.
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Re: "TED Talk" Discussion

Postby BigglesPiP » Mon Feb 09, 2009 8:22 pm UTC

Smile on the other side too?

Code: Select all
...linux (: or bsd :) would...
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Re: "TED Talk" Discussion

Postby bersl2 » Mon Feb 09, 2009 8:28 pm UTC

vodka.cobra wrote:
Kitsusyn wrote:Back in 2007 furry-bashing would have been considered relevant, but you are late to the party in mocking us. Not fashionably late either. ¬_¬

Irrelevance doesn't necessarily make it boring. :P


Look, guys, let it go. There are a million other conventions of all kinds from which Randall has not been banned. Who (other than Greenreaper, apparently :P ) gives a shit whether he can attend this or that convention?

(And I sometimes put a space between the smilie and the right parenthesis, and other times I put it just outside. ;) ) :P

(It's not an optimal solution, but sometimes it has to be ugly. Otherwise, rewrite what you had to say, or put some other statement after the emoticon.)

EDIT: Changed a couple of ghastly typos.
Last edited by bersl2 on Tue Feb 10, 2009 5:18 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: "TED Talk" Discussion

Postby Catdrake » Mon Feb 09, 2009 8:32 pm UTC

Why do i get the feeling some well-meaning furry convention is going to take this as a sort of challenge and send him an invite?

And why do i suddenly feel the urge to watch this possibility like a hawk?
Nothing to see here, move along.
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Re: "TED Talk" Discussion

Postby PeterH » Mon Feb 09, 2009 8:46 pm UTC

I've always had the same problem but just decided to use an elipsis there.

like this.

(Which would be awkward :)...)

It still looks a little weird, but it's better than :))...
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Re: "TED Talk" Discussion

Postby bersl2 » Mon Feb 09, 2009 8:47 pm UTC

Catdrake wrote:Why do i get the feeling some well-meaning furry convention is going to take this as a sort of challenge and send him an invite?

And why do i suddenly feel the urge to watch this possibility like a hawk?

Just in case anybody is seriously thinking about it: is this thing about being banned from conventions just a joke or a one-off stunt, or does Randall actually have a history of crashing cons?
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Re: "TED Talk" Discussion

Postby Summercat » Mon Feb 09, 2009 8:53 pm UTC

Catdrake wrote:Why do i get the feeling some well-meaning furry convention is going to take this as a sort of challenge and send him an invite?

And why do i suddenly feel the urge to watch this possibility like a hawk?


I registered JUST for this.

Hi, I'm on staff for Califur, in Southern California. Particularly, I'm the head of the Gaming Programming Track, but I'm also doing quite a few other jobs. I not only invite Randall to COME to Califur, I will give him (somewhere, somehow) a two hour slot of time in one of our programming rooms for ANYTHING that is legal and allowed by the hotel.

((Haha, GR, you've just been Mario'd!))
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Re: "TED Talk" Discussion

Postby Summercat » Mon Feb 09, 2009 8:56 pm UTC

bersl2 wrote:
Catdrake wrote:Why do i get the feeling some well-meaning furry convention is going to take this as a sort of challenge and send him an invite?

And why do i suddenly feel the urge to watch this possibility like a hawk?

Just in case anybody is seriously thinking about it: is this thing about being banned from conventions just a joke or a one-off stunt, or does Randall actually have a history of crashing cons?


My bet is that it's a joke. I know everyone banned at Califur, and he's not among them. For another, I'm willing to bet that other conventions listed haven't actually banned him, if they even know who he is.

Randall's character, in the universe created in XKCD where Cory Doctorow wears a red cape and flies around in a balloon, battling Tron Paul, is banned from these conventions after starting this... presentations. Randall himself is not, I'm willing to bet.
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Re: "TED Talk" Discussion

Postby Random832 » Mon Feb 09, 2009 8:58 pm UTC

bersl2 wrote:Just in case anybody is seriously thinking about it: is this thing about being banned from conventions just a joke or a one-off stunt, or does Randall actually have a history of crashing cons?

It's not the first time he's made this joke in the comic, but I suspect that's all it is - a [running] joke.

http://xkcd.com/153/

http://xkcd.com/410/ - kind of similar
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Re: "TED Talk" Discussion

Postby SpringLoaded12 » Mon Feb 09, 2009 9:29 pm UTC

I've always had that problem!

(:)) just looks stupid.

If other people are expecting emoticons and can figure out what you're trying to do (Ex. chatrooms, IRC, MMOs), then I advise a space between the emoticon and the parentheses. Possibly two, if you think it's necessary for the font.

Square brackets [] are also an option, but look funny in certain situations or fonts.

Another option is to not use :) , instead use :D . However, this may cause issues when dealing with a winking emote ;) .

You could use right side-up emoticons ^_^ -_- O_O o_0 , but sometimes sideways ones have no equivalent in this form.

The best way, I think, is to reword the statement so having a section in parentheses is unnecessary. This is best if you have plenty of time to formulate a response, such as in emails. If the text cannot be reworded to allow for this, replace the parentheses with a * and use a * endnote at the bottom of the text to write what you would have put in parentheses. This only works for multi-line texts that are not heavily restricted. Like before, you could use this for email, but not for, say, a Youtube comment (if you can muster the bravery to write one).
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Re: "TED Talk" Discussion

Postby tetsujin » Mon Feb 09, 2009 10:11 pm UTC

You know, I've never really liked graphical emoticons in forums... It seems like there's no reason they have to be a problem, it's just the implementation has made that difficult... For instance:

1) When a web forum replaces a text emoticon (like :P) with a graphical one (like :P) the result often conveys a different feeling than the original. In this case, what I'd consider a more dead-pan raspberry gets turned into a goofy grin - and graphically almost indistinguishable from a regular smile.
2) Disabling emoticons in a post doesn't protect the post's content from getting interpreted as emoticons (for instance, if it's quoted in a reply)
3) Disabling emoticons in a post is all-or-nothing - one can't disable emoticons to protect a piece of ordinary text, and then use them later.
4) Some graphical emoticons are activated with long-form text like :evil: - which is handy, as it stays out of the way for the most part and is easy to remember... Others are only available in shorthand form... I feel it'd be better to have them all use long form...
5) Having smilies converted to graphics seems to defeat the purpose of having the original ASCII text version look like the corresponding smiley face
6) Although the smileys are more detailed than their ASCII counterparts, they're generally small in size which makes them harder to read.
7) The only reason this list is so long is so I could get to point #8.
8) Certain character sequences that might be used in ordinary conversation get converted into graphical emoticons
9) Yes, I know I could use [list]... but you see the problem here?
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Re: "TED Talk" Discussion

Postby malenkylizards » Mon Feb 09, 2009 10:18 pm UTC

I like brackets [like this! :)].

Advantages:
- They require one keystroke instead of two, doubling your productivity [if all you do is type parentheses, anyway].
- They don't interfere with emoticons unless you like the glib look: :-]

Other alternatives include:
- (-: [an interesting aside: when texting I prefer C-: as my cell phone's symbol key has colons and dashes, but one must enter a menu to enter parens]
- :-D [enthusiastic!!!]
- *smile*
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Re: "TED Talk" Discussion

Postby The Abominable Cellist » Mon Feb 09, 2009 10:27 pm UTC

Dude. Brackets.
ie, Linux (or BSD :])
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Re: "TED Talk" Discussion

Postby Monika » Mon Feb 09, 2009 10:44 pm UTC

Drbass wrote:I honestly can't believe that there is this much discussion about the smiley in parenthesis when there hasn't been a word said about the even bigger problem. HOW DO YOU USE SMILEYS IN A SENTENCE??

You missed my post, evidently.

___________

Moz wrote:At least you didn't use that horrible double-hyphen thing (--) that I see everywhere.

I think using -- is a reasonable solution whereever dashes are not easily available. I am certainly not going to drag out the charachter map to create a dash on a forum or e-mail.

___________

And PyCon rulez.
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Re: "TED Talk" Discussion

Postby Random832 » Mon Feb 09, 2009 10:56 pm UTC

Monika wrote:I think using -- is a reasonable solution whereever dashes are not easily available. I am certainly not going to drag out the charachter map to create a dash on a forum or e-mail.


Alt-0151

(Alt codes I have memorized: 0128, 0133, 0145-0148, 0149, 0150-0151, 0163, 1 ☺, 15, 20, 21, 0215)

Also, a bit of time spent with MSKLC can be very useful.

Of course, there are also alternatives for other systems - there's already a keyboard layout with option stuff on mac, and it's easy to write a new keyboard layout for X11, as someone using Linux (or BSD Image) would need to do.
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Re: "TED Talk" Discussion

Postby Eriksson » Mon Feb 09, 2009 10:58 pm UTC

Summercat wrote:
Catdrake wrote:Why do i get the feeling some well-meaning furry convention is going to take this as a sort of challenge and send him an invite?

And why do i suddenly feel the urge to watch this possibility like a hawk?


I registered JUST for this.

Hi, I'm on staff for Califur, in Southern California. Particularly, I'm the head of the Gaming Programming Track, but I'm also doing quite a few other jobs. I not only invite Randall to COME to Califur, I will give him (somewhere, somehow) a two hour slot of time in one of our programming rooms for ANYTHING that is legal and allowed by the hotel.

((Haha, GR, you've just been Mario'd!))

Also note that this is his second reference to the Furry Fandom in a row.
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Re: "TED Talk" Discussion

Postby tetsujin » Mon Feb 09, 2009 10:58 pm UTC

Random832 wrote:
Monika wrote:I think using -- is a reasonable solution whereever dashes are not easily available. I am certainly not going to drag out the charachter map to create a dash on a forum or e-mail.


Alt-0151

(Alt codes I have memorized: 0128, 0133, 0145-0148, 0149, 0150-0151, 0163, 1 ☺, 15, 20, 21, 0215)

Also, a bit of time spent with MSKLC can be very useful.

Of course, there are also alternatives for other systems - there's already a keyboard layout with option stuff on mac, and it's easy to write a new keyboard layout for X11 for linux/bsd


Works better if you have a numeric keypad, I bet. Does the alt+numpad thing work in Linux? I can't remember.
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Re: "TED Talk" Discussion

Postby shadowterm » Mon Feb 09, 2009 11:08 pm UTC

Enclose the emoticon in brakets (like this [:)])
Image

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Re: "TED Talk" Discussion

Postby Random832 » Mon Feb 09, 2009 11:38 pm UTC

tetsujin wrote:
Random832 wrote:
Monika wrote:I think using -- is a reasonable solution whereever dashes are not easily available. I am certainly not going to drag out the charachter map to create a dash on a forum or e-mail.


Alt-0151

(Alt codes I have memorized: 0128, 0133, 0145-0148, 0149, 0150-0151, 0163, 1 ☺, 15, 20, 21, 0215)

Also, a bit of time spent with MSKLC can be very useful.

Of course, there are also alternatives for other systems - there's already a keyboard layout with option stuff on mac, and it's easy to write a new keyboard layout for X11 for linux/bsd


Works better if you have a numeric keypad, I bet. Does the alt+numpad thing work in Linux? I can't remember.


Nothing wrong with Alt-Fn-mjij. But anyway - for Linux or BSD it's easy to write a custom keyboard layout using xmodmap.
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Re: "TED Talk" Discussion

Postby jaszczesniak » Mon Feb 09, 2009 11:47 pm UTC

Lincoln used the emoticon in the discussed manner... in 1862...
http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/ ... -emoticon/
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Re: "TED Talk" Discussion

Postby dean.menezes » Mon Feb 09, 2009 11:49 pm UTC

Solutions:

a. Don't use smileys.
b. Use brackets instead of parenthesis:
Code: Select all
Linux [or BSD :)] can ...

c. Replace with GENERIC UNIX OS :) can ...
d. Escape the parenthesis using \ or ^ (if using Windows because that is the escape character in DOS).
e. Use brackets instead of parenthesis in the emoticon: Linux (or BSD :]) can ...
f. call it GNU/Linux
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Re: "TED Talk" Discussion

Postby Troger64 » Mon Feb 09, 2009 11:59 pm UTC

randall get out of my head!!
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Re: "TED Talk" Discussion

Postby Kadzar » Mon Feb 09, 2009 11:59 pm UTC

dean.menezes wrote:Solutions:

a. Don't use smileys.
That is not an option!
Troger64 wrote:randall get out of my head!!
That's been done far too many times already. Nowadays, you have to find a way to say that without using those exact words (: Also, I quite like this:).
Last edited by Kadzar on Tue Feb 10, 2009 12:03 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: "TED Talk" Discussion

Postby dennisw » Tue Feb 10, 2009 12:01 am UTC

shadowterm wrote:[:)]

Frankensmiley*

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I find these very useful: Common Errors in English Usage (web site) and Eats, Shoots & Leaves (book). You may, too.

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Re: "TED Talk" Discussion

Postby ThomasS » Tue Feb 10, 2009 12:19 am UTC

dean.menezes wrote:Solutions:
a. Don't use smileys.

But without smileys, our writing would be dull, unimaginative, and most critically, unemotional. For indeed, no other technique used in the cannon of English literature provides the refined emotional content of a smiley. Nothing else provides room for such a layering of meaning. I could belabor my point further, but perhaps the following point will make it sufficiently clear. So often when I see a smiley, I think to myself that without it I wouldn't know to laugh.
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Re: "TED Talk" Discussion

Postby MuToiD_MaN » Tue Feb 10, 2009 12:28 am UTC

Personally I'd like to see what XKCD subject would be used to get thrown from the baking conference (an obvious one by comparison being the paleontology conference :) ). Perhaps something related to the Beret Guy's antics?
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Re: "TED Talk" Discussion

Postby ConMan » Tue Feb 10, 2009 12:57 am UTC

To those suggesting that the emoticon be placed outside of the parentheses I would like to point out that the point of making a statement parenthetical is so that it may be considered separately from the statement it is associated with, and may be removed without affecting the meaning of the original statement (although of course in some circumstances the parenthesis may act to modify or provide an ironic counterpoint to the meaning). As such, the emoticon should appear within the parentheses, otherwise it may be construed as being associated with the outer statement, causing confusion when the emotion displayed does not match that of the statement.

For example, if the statement were "I have to go in to work over the weekend (but then I have the following week off) :)", then removing the parenthesis leaves "I have to go in to work over the weekend :)", implying that the writer is pleased about having to work on the weekend rather than having time off (which we would assume is the more pleasing event).

As for those asking why people do not use the emotional tags such as <g>, the answer should be simple - they are no longer standards-compliant, and should be replaced by a more modern equivalent <g />.

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Re: "TED Talk" Discussion

Postby Cantaloupe » Tue Feb 10, 2009 1:26 am UTC

In my opinion this is kinda similar to this
How did randall get banned from every furry convention in the US? I'm not a furry, but yeah, randall always is nice (or not so mean :\) to furries... O.o
(P.S. meh : ) )
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Please Note Internet Explorer cannot handle arcs very well.

Postby Felstaff » Tue Feb 10, 2009 2:31 am UTC

Linux (or BSD Ü)
Linux (or BSD °‿ °)
Linux (or BSD ‿" )
Linux (or BSD ε:)
Linux (or BSD °υ°)
Linux (or Windows ಠ_ಠ)


Linux (or Windows 2000 ȫ)
Habent sua fata libelli et balli
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Re: "TED Talk" Discussion

Postby jpallan » Tue Feb 10, 2009 2:49 am UTC

I suppose the more important question to me is why no one has drawn the obvious parallel to Marcus Antonius here.

You, with those jaws of yours, and those sides of yours, and that strength of body suited to a gladiator, drank such quantities of wine at the marriage of Hippia, that you were forced to vomit the next day in the sight of the Roman people. O action disgraceful not merely to see, but even to hear of. If this had happened to you at supper amid those vast drinking cups of yours, who would not have thought it scandalous? But in an assembly of the Roman people, a man holding a public office, a master of the horse, to whom it would have been disgraceful even to belch, vomiting filled his own bosom and the whole tribunal with fragments of what he had been eating reeking with wine. But he himself confesses this among his other disgraceful acts.



Really, xkcd has a long way to go before he can even begin to approach the greats in terms of pissing people off at public talks ...
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Re: "TED Talk" Discussion

Postby ThemePark » Tue Feb 10, 2009 3:37 am UTC

Cantaloupe wrote:In my opinion this is kinda similar to this
How did randall get banned from every furry convention in the US? I'm not a furry, but yeah, randall always is nice (or not so mean :\) to furries... O.o
(P.S. meh : ) )

Please don't ever do this again. That was just one and a half hour of my time wasted.

An awesome time, yeah, but still.
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Re: "TED Talk" Discussion

Postby soniku64 » Tue Feb 10, 2009 4:43 am UTC

About us Furries was it this? http://xkcd.com/471/ if not I dont know.




psst Randall..[i]



http://furry.wikia.com/wiki/ConFuzzled_2009
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