0606: "Cutting Edge"

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Dr. Kilereren
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Re: "Cutting Edge" discussion

Postby Dr. Kilereren » Mon Jul 06, 2009 1:08 pm UTC

GET OUT OF MY HEAD RANDAL!
I've been playing through the half-life series recently.

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BioTube
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Re: "Cutting Edge" discussion

Postby BioTube » Mon Jul 06, 2009 1:13 pm UTC

I appreciate the classics - Hocus Pocus is high up there and Lost Eden was good too(but nothing beats Chrono Trigger). Anybody else remember Runtime Error 200?

I do wish, however, that either fglrx was better or that 3D would hurry up and come to the open source driver - I want to finish my first time through Half Life(though I watched my brother play it as a kid, I only stated playing it myself a month or two before I switched to the Radeon - stupid decision, that) and finish the Sands of Time trilogy. Plus, ZSNES runs really slow with software rasterization.

And it's not bad that I've got Still Alive on my playlist, right?
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King Author
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Re: "Cutting Edge" discussion

Postby King Author » Mon Jul 06, 2009 1:15 pm UTC

I can't believe someone else thought of this! I have myself on a videogame lag not for the sake of not upgrading systems to the required specs, but to save money. I've been rocking Morrowwind, Baldur's Gate II and, coincidentally enough, Half-Life 2 recently, and got 'em all unopened off eBay for like, five bucks each. It has other advantages -- temporal displacement helps weed out the crap; only the really good games survive years and years with people still remembering them. The major downside? I'm not getting the new Wii Zelda or Metroid for at least three years after they're released (and they probably won't be released 'til 2010/2011 anyway ;_;).

Then again, I play old games all the time, anyway. DOS is, by far, my favorite operating system. Nothing released in the past two decades can touch King's Quest, and few FPS can compare to System Shock. Plus, people <b>still develop</b> for DOS.
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philsov
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Re: "Cutting Edge" discussion

Postby philsov » Mon Jul 06, 2009 1:23 pm UTC

My standard is "less than $20" rather than "five years". It's a good way of filtering out the crap: if people are still talking about it, it's probably a good game.


I'd be careful with that philosophy. For example, many of the good playstation-era rpgs that weren't final fantasy (like Suikoden 2) are selling for $80+ on ebay.

Still have morrowind somewhere in my backlog...
Last edited by philsov on Mon Jul 06, 2009 1:25 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: "Cutting Edge" discussion

Postby Storm » Mon Jul 06, 2009 1:24 pm UTC

BioTube wrote:And it's not bad that I've got Still Alive on my playlist, right?
No! It is never bad to have Still Alive on a playlist.

As far as PCs go Morrowind is a personal favourite of mine and LANs with my friends consist solely of Warcraft 3 (as did my MGT100 class). I think the last game I bought for PC's when it came out was World of Warcraft.
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Re: "Cutting Edge" discussion

Postby LongTailGamer » Mon Jul 06, 2009 1:46 pm UTC

I .. I feel so naked before the world now. Like Randall has seen into my soul and displayed it for all to see. Thanks Randall!

I started reviewing the old games I love a few months ago. Started with Ur-Quan Masters (AKA Star Control II), moved along to Patrician III, and next week, I should have XCOM up and playing.

Man, I loves me some vintage gaming goodness.

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SirMustapha
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Re: "Cutting Edge" discussion

Postby SirMustapha » Mon Jul 06, 2009 1:47 pm UTC

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, NOT PORTAL

(though this is still way, way, way less painful than putting glados next to HAL 9000 -- I feel like committing murder every time I think of that. I still need to disinfect my mind, though)

Pretty dull strip.

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Re: "Cutting Edge" discussion

Postby skyefalcon » Mon Jul 06, 2009 1:53 pm UTC

....another poster alluded to this but it would appear by the CRT in the comic, that the guy buys his monitors on a five year lag too. :)

SF

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mysticRight
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Re: "Cutting Edge" discussion

Postby mysticRight » Mon Jul 06, 2009 2:10 pm UTC

Whispering wrote:Cake is a lie but pi is truth.

I know how the alt-text goes I can't stand going back to old games and not finding anyone playing except for Koreans, nothing against you guys but I don't speak that language. Well that and they tend to beat you in 10 seconds. Anyone up for Red Alert: Yuri's Revenge?



I am always up for Red Alert 2. I never really cared for the Yuri army, but I'll play without the expansion. I can't tell you how many hours I spent playing that game back in high school. Now I just need to find a machine I can run it on. I am pretty sure Vista isn't good enough for this game.

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Re: "Cutting Edge" discussion

Postby Teilo » Mon Jul 06, 2009 2:25 pm UTC

Oh, man. I am that guy.

I am half-way through HL2, and I just beat Portal.

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Re: "Cutting Edge" discussion

Postby Jorpho » Mon Jul 06, 2009 2:27 pm UTC

King Author wrote:DOS is, by far, my favorite operating system. Nothing released in the past two decades can touch King's Quest, and few FPS can compare to System Shock. Plus, people <b>still develop</b> for DOS.
I think you mean that you prefer the games that are made for DOS, for DOS as an operating system leaves a great deal to be desired, especially if you've ever tried to develop for it. I reckon it's a lot easier than it used to be with Allegro, but then you can use Allegro for a whole bunch of operating systems, so why bother with DOS?

Amarsir
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Re: "Cutting Edge" discussion

Postby Amarsir » Mon Jul 06, 2009 2:35 pm UTC

As others have said, if you can lower your expectations this applies to far more than just games. Try it with phones.

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Re: "Cutting Edge" discussion

Postby FoolishOwl » Mon Jul 06, 2009 2:36 pm UTC

Every so often, Steam does a survey of the hardware users are using. I'd find it disheartening, as my computer was clearly on the low end. It's got only one processor, an AMD Sempron 2500.Yet, aside from playing games, it's more than powerful enough to do everything I want of it, and it plays games from five years ago or more quite well.

One of the things I'd find most irritating about "gamer" forums is that there's a rampant immaturity, in which anyone who doesn't have the latest in commercially available computer hardware is insulted. It's quite a contrast with the attitude on GNU/Linux forums, in which people are impressed when someone gets old hardware working. I also notice that many people will say the only thing that keeps them from switching from Windows is the games. I decided that, given that most of the software I used in practice on Windows, other than games, were FLOSS, and that I couldn't afford the hardware to play the newest games anymore, the games alone weren't a justification anymore. (Later, I discovered Wine.)

Once upon a time, I found Fallout 2 and Alpha Centauri in a discount bin. That was one of the best uses to which I ever put $20.

Occasionally, I still play Angband.

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Re: "Cutting Edge" discussion

Postby Zylon » Mon Jul 06, 2009 2:39 pm UTC

I only played Star Control 2 for the first time about three years ago (thanks to the freeware Ur-Quan Masters port). Despite being a 17-year-old DOS game, it was still awesome.

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Re: "Cutting Edge" discussion

Postby zombie_monkey » Mon Jul 06, 2009 2:41 pm UTC

glasnt wrote:Has anyone else started a drunken sing-a-long to 'Still Alive' with a room full of intoxicated geeks? I haven't. We were actually walking along the streets in the wee hours. We ended up rickrolling the fuzz as well. That was a good night.

Ooh, I have! Started the Portal theme song and Never Gonna Give You Up singalongs and also at night outside drunk too.
Last edited by zombie_monkey on Mon Jul 06, 2009 2:43 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: "Cutting Edge" discussion

Postby Sprocket » Mon Jul 06, 2009 2:41 pm UTC

But the cake wasn't a lie....there was cake...at the end. So delicious and moist.

Someday I will maybe get old video game consoles and play old video games. In the meantime, the greater my distance from college, the less frequent my exposure to a video game.
Last edited by Sprocket on Mon Jul 06, 2009 2:51 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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alias.exe
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Re: "Cutting Edge" discussion

Postby alias.exe » Mon Jul 06, 2009 2:43 pm UTC

The CRT burns my eyes, really it does.


Anyway, this statement was almost true for me until recently, when I went all out and put together a top-of-the-range (for now) computer. At the moment, I therefore get to enjoy Crysis maxed at 1920x1080...or at least I could, if it wasn't a shit game.

But you get the point :)

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Simon17
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Re: "Cutting Edge" discussion

Postby Simon17 » Mon Jul 06, 2009 2:45 pm UTC

Wow. Another internet-meme comic.
I was just thinking about how these comics are!
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Re: "Cutting Edge" discussion

Postby Black ICE » Mon Jul 06, 2009 2:50 pm UTC

My first "Get out of my head Randall!" I finished the Half-Life 2 series up until ep. 2 just last month. It was machinima of Half-Life that recently peaked my interest in the series. Can't wait for ep. 3 :D I just got into PC gaming, and so far i like it better than playing games on a console most of the time.

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Re: "Cutting Edge" discussion

Postby phillipsjk » Mon Jul 06, 2009 3:38 pm UTC

A few years ago I had the idea of designing a game-engine that would scale from quake-quality graphics text descriptions of the world on a 486 to photo-realistic scenery on a computing cluster. My idea involves a lot of pre-rendered on-the-fly sprites, so may not work due to memory constraints or network bandwidth.

When developers design/program new games they tend to use recent hardware. I find this annoying because I spend years building/configuring specific computers; and I don't usually buy new. Since I don't follow cutting-edge games too often, I sometimes watch "Electronic Playground" just on the off chance they have something useful or informative to say (they don't.) They complain when a game does not take full advantage of the hardware in latest consoles! I'm left thinking: who cares? Do the graphics look good regardless? How is the game-play?

I did notice that some games have flash version as a demo. If you can play the flash demo, you can probably play the game with less overhead. Unless, you run into the latest DRM/copy-protection schemes. I think those are killing the PC-game industry. At least in the console world there is only one implementation of DRM to worry about, and only a few variations of the hardware. This means that the end-users won't have any nasty surprises unless they want to try "Jail-breaking" their console.
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KyrieEleison
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Re: "Cutting Edge" discussion

Postby KyrieEleison » Mon Jul 06, 2009 3:49 pm UTC

Kisama wrote:You can find it here :-) I had Where in Time and Where in Space is Carmen Sandiego; lots and lots of fun!


lith wrote:It's been abandonware for years now.
http://www.abandonia.com/en/games/13/Wh ... diego.html

EDIT: GOD DAMNIT


Thanks so much to both of you, but I should have said I was looking for the Deluxe Edition, which that site did not have, but I found it (along with nine other incarnations) here. A few minutes trying to figure out how to run it in DOSBox, and I'm already an investigator!

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Re: "Cutting Edge" discussion

Postby philsov » Mon Jul 06, 2009 4:06 pm UTC

contact employ-EE travel!
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Re: "Cutting Edge" discussion

Postby deepforestgreen » Mon Jul 06, 2009 4:07 pm UTC

I get this - I just started playing Guild Wars ($10!) and my friends won't play because they are tired of it. Oh, well, it's a blast.

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Re: "Cutting Edge" discussion

Postby FoolishOwl » Mon Jul 06, 2009 4:17 pm UTC

phillipsjk wrote:They complain when a game does not take full advantage of the hardware in latest consoles! I'm left thinking: who cares? Do the graphics look good regardless? How is the game-play?

I was just having breakfast with three children, two of whom are seven years old, one of whom is twelve, and they were talking about Pac-Man.

How many games that take "full advantage of the hardware" now will be remembered in twenty-nine years?

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Re: "Cutting Edge" discussion

Postby mrcheesypants » Mon Jul 06, 2009 4:35 pm UTC

What's pathetic is I still consider Half-life 2 "next gen" since I still don't have a computer that can run it.
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Re: "Cutting Edge" discussion

Postby SunAvatar » Mon Jul 06, 2009 4:55 pm UTC

I don't usually make "get out of my head" posts but seriously, Randall, get out of my head.

I have been saying exactly this line about a five-year lag for years, and now it's been published and if I keep saying it I'll just sound like I'm ripping off xkcd. There goes my favorite method of seeming clever.
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Re: "Cutting Edge" discussion

Postby Zorlin » Mon Jul 06, 2009 5:17 pm UTC

phlip wrote:
Jorpho wrote:
Quicksilver wrote:This comic is pretty inaccurate. I can play Portal on a Celeron D, the game was designed from the start for low end computers and high end so there was no excuse to have not played the game.
But they didn't have Celeron D's in 2004, did they?
Maybe, but up until three days ago, I was running a CPU I bought in early 2003 (an Athlon K7 of some sort) and a mid-range graphics card from the same time (GeForce 5500 FX), and Portal still ran fine, if in low-detail mode. Could still get perfectly fine framerates with the render depth up a couple of notches, even.

Also, I still have a CRT (21", weighs about 7 metric tonnes), but that's next on my list of things to replace.

But that's a real graphics card, not an integrated graphics card. Try running it on a 2004 box (AMD Athlon64 3000+) and an ATi Radeon 9200SE [OEM card] or a 2004 laptop and you'll see what Randall's talking about.

While the Source engine (Portal isn't the only game to do this) is designed to be scalable to work on high and low-end machines it can only do so much before it falls down.
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Re: "Cutting Edge" discussion

Postby TurtleMidget » Mon Jul 06, 2009 5:19 pm UTC

Quicksilver wrote:This comic is pretty inaccurate. I can play Portal on a Celeron D, the game was designed from the start for low end computers and high end so there was no excuse to have not played the game.

Nay.
It's not my processor that keeps me from playing it, it's my damned integrated graphics. I can only play it if I turn off the ability to see through portals, which I refuse to do.
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Re: "Cutting Edge" discussion

Postby Jourdy289 » Mon Jul 06, 2009 6:14 pm UTC

quadripedman wrote:Uh, Randal, what are you doing in my head? I just got HL2 a few weeks ago ($2 at Good Will and a few hours of some questionabally legal maneuvers involving falsifying a receipt and other such things) and have been playing it non-stop.


Quadripedman, get out of MY head! I got Age of Empires at Goodwill (I call it GW) for around 3-4 dollars! Right now I'm hoping to get a Nintendo Gamecube just so that I can play Pikim :mrgreen:
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Re: "Cutting Edge" discussion

Postby Doug52392 » Mon Jul 06, 2009 6:24 pm UTC

I bought The Orange Box last year, and to my surprise, Team Fortress 2 actually ran quite well on my computer. Aside from an (at the time) new graphics card (nVidia 8600GT), my computer isn't exactly a super-fast gaming machine (3.4Ghz Pentium D processor/1Gb RAM/Vista). Although even Fallout 3 runs well on medium settings on it.

An extra benefit of being a "5 year lag gamer": Your not on Valve Time!

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Re: "Cutting Edge" discussion

Postby KyrieEleison » Mon Jul 06, 2009 7:44 pm UTC

philsov wrote:contact employ-EE travel!


Warrant Dee-partment!

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Re: "Cutting Edge" discussion

Postby straight » Mon Jul 06, 2009 7:46 pm UTC

There are so many good reasons for doing this.

Thanks to mod communities, Morrowind and Oblivion are easily 3x better games than when they were first released. And dirt cheap. And lots of bugs ironed out and patched. And with moderate hardware they look better now than they did on the finest hardware available when released.

Really the only reason not to do this is multiplayer and spoilers. My backlog of fantastic, best-of-the-best older games that I haven't played yet (and that are available for $20 or less) is huge...

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Re: "Cutting Edge" discussion

Postby The1exile » Mon Jul 06, 2009 8:02 pm UTC

I regretfully must also join the list of people whose heads belong to Randall. My most recent game purchase is The Orange Box, and the last game I got frustrated over not working was Master of Olympus: Zeus (prior to that, Diablo II - iirc my graphics are somehow not advanced enough to run it O.o).

Admittedly, this computer (being 3 years old and therefore so past it) is falling apart so badly that it has trouble rerunning Episode One. Hell if I know why it got so much worse suddenly.
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Re: "Cutting Edge" discussion

Postby Zero51423 » Mon Jul 06, 2009 8:23 pm UTC

Ironically, I just beat HL2 for the third time yesterday. As a side note, the cake is not a lie, GLaDOS simply doesn't give you any...

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Re: "Cutting Edge" discussion

Postby Technical Ben » Mon Jul 06, 2009 9:07 pm UTC

Hence why the "you will get cake" is a lie...

But some of the best are the oldies. I still play Sim City 4 and know people playing 2000. Just look at the popularity of the Nintendo hardware. It's not the fastest or the best. But they really know how to use it to get some good games.
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Re: "Cutting Edge" discussion

Postby baultista » Mon Jul 06, 2009 9:07 pm UTC

Ah.ah! That was actually pretty funny.

As for the time lag... I'm a bit of an anomaly (I think?). I still build a high end rig every 2-3 years, but I very rarely get a game after its release. The major exceptions to this pattern are any sports titles (mostly EA NHL for the 360, purchased on street release date), the Half Life series, and the Hitman series (waited 2yrs before playing Hitman Blood Money on account of Hitman Contract's epic suckage).

With any other game I always wait until at least the 1st price drop. Playing five year old games is tough unless you're 100% committed to it. If you play at least one other modern game, the graphics of a 5 year old game will make your eyes bleed. Someone here mentioned that great artwork tends to hold up over time. Although that is true, it's more of the exception than the rule in the world of videogames.

IMO HL2 still looks sharp today, whereas Doom 3 looks like hell... or more specifically NOT like hell.


But yeah, funny comic today.
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Re: "Cutting Edge" discussion

Postby Glenn Magus Harvey » Mon Jul 06, 2009 9:11 pm UTC

Dude, Randall, you fail.

I do this. I played Golden Sun (2003) in 2007, Castlevania: Symphony of the Night (1997) in 2005, and Metroid Prime (2002) in 2009, and I watched Noir (2003) in 2008-2009 and Kiddy Grade (2002) in 2009.

Except I don't have that drawback. How, you ask?

All I need to do is hang out on some internet fora and IRC channels.

Seriously, everything I know about giant enemy crabs, cakes being lies, Halo being a pretty cool guy who doesn't afraid of anything, and tires donning exits comes from my contact with fellow gamers who chatter incessantly about topics that I don't really care for, but turn them into memes (which I do care for, because they're generally funnier).

(Yes, they're funnier. The Stop Having Fun Guys can go enjoy their own boring little flying platform with no items and only Fox clones.)

(For reference, I do play Melee, but that's only because a bunch of friends in college introduced me to it. I'm no good, but I do enjoy playing pikachu, jumping into a big fistfight of three other players, and calling down a thunderbolt upon them. Chance of at least one person getting knocked out is about 50% or better. For what it's worth, I also play Game&Watch.)

Also, not to mention that I still play Game Boy, NES, and SNES games. Take THAT!

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Re: "Cutting Edge" discussion

Postby Black ICE » Mon Jul 06, 2009 9:37 pm UTC

TurtleMidget wrote:
Quicksilver wrote:This comic is pretty inaccurate. I can play Portal on a Celeron D, the game was designed from the start for low end computers and high end so there was no excuse to have not played the game.

Nay.
It's not my processor that keeps me from playing it, it's my damned integrated graphics. I can only play it if I turn off the ability to see through portals, which I refuse to do.


I had that same problem, so i paid $220 for a new PSU and 9800GT graphics card. I figured it was either that or play without seeing through portals =\ My PC needed an upgrade anyway.

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Re: "Cutting Edge" discussion

Postby Felshen » Mon Jul 06, 2009 9:52 pm UTC

Weird coincidence, I've been re-playing Half Life 2 all this week. (Obligatory "get out of my head, Randall")

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Re: "Cutting Edge" discussion

Postby Zylon » Mon Jul 06, 2009 9:58 pm UTC

baultista wrote:Playing five year old games is tough unless you're 100% committed to it. If you play at least one other modern game, the graphics of a 5 year old game will make your eyes bleed.

Only if you're the worst kind of graphics whore. I still regularly play the likes of Thief and System Shock 2, games which are now nearly a decade old. Hell, I occasionally play Atari 2600 games in emulation.


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