0622: "Haiku Proof"
Moderators: Moderators General, Prelates, Magistrates
0622: "Haiku Proof"
http://xkcd.com/622
AltText : After somewhere around 40 hours, there's no academic reason to go to the class. Only go for the hallucinations.
Q.E.D. Bitches !
Last edited by ndookie on Wed Aug 12, 2009 4:07 am UTC, edited 3 times in total.
Re: "Haiku Proof" discussion
I love it. Pure win. That is all.
 J the Ninja
 Posts: 713
 Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:08 pm UTC
 Location: Portland, USA
 Contact:
Re: "Haiku Proof" discussion
Crap.....school is coming back soon. Good thing Fall term doesn't start for me until 9/22. I swear I won't start loading my backpack until a week or two before.
_{(he/him/his)}Shishichi wrote:Applies a sexward force to counter the sexpression effect that Forward Advection can apply to fluid density, particularly along sextainer boundaries. In this way, the sextribute attempts to conserve the overall fluid volume ensuring no density loss.
Re: "Haiku Proof" discussion
haiku(s?) about math;
xkcd can make me
hallucinate more
xkcd can make me
hallucinate more
Re: "Haiku Proof" discussion
Holy crap, after reading this
ideas to optimize a prime number finder thing i was working on entered my brain.
ideas to optimize a prime number finder thing i was working on entered my brain.

 Posts: 88
 Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2009 8:41 pm UTC
 Location: Wherever you aren't looking at the moment.
Re: "Haiku Proof" discussion
Does the infinite prime thing have to do with flying, or is that just random?
Re: "Haiku Proof" discussion
This comic made me laugh
Lectures can be fun some times...
Also, hi joee!
Lectures can be fun some times...
Also, hi joee!
Hi joee! (origin story)
 Eternal Density
 Posts: 5316
 Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2008 12:37 am UTC
 Contact:
Re: "Haiku Proof" discussion
Just yesterday I was in an online discussion about the effects of Lack Of Sleep. It's uncannily coincidental that it showed up in the very next xkcd! Get out of my posts, Randall!
Also, hi joee and glasnt!
Also, hi joee and glasnt!
Play the game of Time! castle.chirpingmustard.com Hotdog Vending Supplier But what is this?
we/us/our
we/us/our
Re: "Haiku Proof" discussion
Why doesn't the second panel have a border :S...
Re: "Haiku Proof" discussion
FCN wrote:Top prime's divisors? Huh?
Haiku's are awesome.
But they don't have to make sense...
Refrigerator.
Hi joee! (origin story)
 Eternal Density
 Posts: 5316
 Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2008 12:37 am UTC
 Contact:
Re: "Haiku Proof" discussion
My thought exactly.FCN wrote:Top prime's divisors? Huh?
Play the game of Time! castle.chirpingmustard.com Hotdog Vending Supplier But what is this?
we/us/our
we/us/our

 Posts: 1
 Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 4:11 am UTC
Re: "Haiku Proof" discussion
FCN wrote:Top prime's divisors? Huh?
yeah, that doesn't make sense proofwise. The divisors of a prime are itself and 1. The top prime's divisors' product plus one is just the top prime plus one.
multiply all primes.
add one to that. factors are...?
QED Bitches!
 Raptor Jesus
 Posts: 81
 Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 11:52 am UTC
 Location: Everywhere, and Nowhere
 Contact:
Re: "Haiku Proof" discussion
I had to manually enter this comic's number into my browser
Ah well its ok xkcd I forgive you
Or
This is a haiku
Just Japanese poetry
Buy a Honda
Poetry does have 3 syllables right? Haha
Ah well its ok xkcd I forgive you
glasnt wrote:FCN wrote:Top prime's divisors? Huh?
Haiku's are awesome.
But they don't have to make sense...
Refrigerator.
Or
This is a haiku
Just Japanese poetry
Buy a Honda
Poetry does have 3 syllables right? Haha
Last edited by Raptor Jesus on Wed Aug 12, 2009 4:25 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.
Re: "Haiku Proof" discussion
It's saying something like Given prime n, what are n+1's factors?
Re: "Haiku Proof" discussion
Rabscuttle wrote:FCN wrote:Top prime's divisors? Huh?
yeah, that doesn't make sense proofwise. The divisors of a prime are itself and 1. The top prime's divisors' product plus one is just the top prime plus one.
multiply all primes.
add one to that. factors are...?
QED Bitches!
Yeah, I came here to see if anyone had figured that bit out. Well, it can all be pegged to sleepdeprived hallucinations I guess.
Re: "Haiku Proof" discussion
Crysm wrote:Rabscuttle wrote:FCN wrote:Top prime's divisors? Huh?
yeah, that doesn't make sense proofwise. The divisors of a prime are itself and 1. The top prime's divisors' product plus one is just the top prime plus one.
multiply all primes.
add one to that. factors are...?
QED Bitches!
Yeah, I came here to see if anyone had figured that bit out. Well, it can all be pegged to sleepdeprived hallucinations I guess.
EDIT:
Doodle77 wrote:It's saying something like Given prime n, what are n+1's factors?
That's not quite how I read it, but if that's the case, n+1 isn't a prime (it'll be divisible by 2... except for n=2) so it doesn't further the argument.
EDIT2: WTF, how did that doublepost?
Last edited by Crysm on Wed Aug 12, 2009 4:25 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.
 '; DROP DATABASE;
 Posts: 3284
 Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2007 9:38 am UTC
 Location: Midwest Alberta, where it's STILL snowy
 Contact:
Re: "Haiku Proof" discussion
Yeah be careful with that. Last time I tried it, I mistook my chair for a toilet. O.o Fortunately I did not have to actually go at the time, nor did I remove my pants, even though I thought I was going... that was 72 hours though.
I was a bit confused by the "prime divisors" thing too... never really studied primes so I figured I was just wrong. >_>
I was a bit confused by the "prime divisors" thing too... never really studied primes so I figured I was just wrong. >_>
poxic wrote:You suck. And simultaneously rock. I think you've invented a new state of being.

 Posts: 127
 Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 2:52 am UTC
Re: "Haiku Proof" discussion
I was thinking the same thing about "Top prime's divisors" not making sense, and I tried revising it myself. It turns out that my revision was almost same as Rabscuttle's; my first line was, "Product of all primes." But I think "Multiply all primes" sounds a lot better.
"It is common sense to take a method and try it. If it fails, admit it frankly and try another. But above all, try something."
 Franklin D. Roosevelt
 Franklin D. Roosevelt
Re: "Haiku Proof" discussion
Rabscuttle wrote:multiply all primes.
add one to that. factors are...?
QED Bitches!
Or:
Product of the primes,
Plus one, has the divisors...?
QED, bitches!
Spoiler:

 Posts: 2
 Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 5:05 am UTC
 Location: The midnight train.
Re: "Haiku Proof" discussion
It takes more than 40 hours for hallucinations to set in...

 Posts: 2
 Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2009 3:49 am UTC
 Contact:
Re: "Haiku Proof" discussion
One proof that there's an infinite number of primes is to:
1 Assume a finite number of primes
2 Take the product of all primes (p_{1}, p_{2},...,p_{n} with p_{1} as the 1st prime and p_{n} as the last) and add 1
3 This number cannot be divisible by any of the primes in the list, so it must either be prime or divisible by a prime larger than p_{n}, and therefore the original assumption of a finite number of primes is invalid
This seems to be the proof Randall is using, but I'm not exactly sure what the divisors part is meant to be. Bad wording?
1 Assume a finite number of primes
2 Take the product of all primes (p_{1}, p_{2},...,p_{n} with p_{1} as the 1st prime and p_{n} as the last) and add 1
3 This number cannot be divisible by any of the primes in the list, so it must either be prime or divisible by a prime larger than p_{n}, and therefore the original assumption of a finite number of primes is invalid
This seems to be the proof Randall is using, but I'm not exactly sure what the divisors part is meant to be. Bad wording?
Re: "Haiku Proof" discussion
The flying professor's declaration of "Q.E.D., Bitches!" caused me some serious cheese burnage
nodedef: tactical hacking sim. Now in open beta.
 InsanePyros
 Posts: 18
 Joined: Fri Mar 21, 2008 6:13 am UTC
Re: "Haiku Proof" discussion
apparently at the 20 hour mark you keep on reading infinities instead of primes despite the fact that they sound nothing alike, the haiku doesn't work, and the proof makes even less sense. It's probably just because I love the fact that there are an infinite number of infinities. Or more accurately, an aleph0 number of infinities.
Re: "Haiku Proof" discussion
Hi glasnt and eternal destinydensity (do I know you, btw?)
*exhausted* after getting back from sydney. should just go home and die
<3 comic though, apart from the crappy prime number proof
*exhausted* after getting back from sydney. should just go home and die
<3 comic though, apart from the crappy prime number proof
Last edited by joee on Wed Aug 12, 2009 4:38 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.
Hi glasnt.
 Kwiz
 Posts: 21
 Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2007 2:16 am UTC
 Location: University of Washington, Seattle
 Contact:
Re: "Haiku Proof" discussion
revolutionx897 wrote:Bad wording?
Nope. Just hallucinatory wording.
"Apathy on the individual level translates into insanity at the mass level."
 Douglas Hofstadter, Metamagical Themas
 Douglas Hofstadter, Metamagical Themas

 Posts: 8
 Joined: Mon Nov 17, 2008 9:10 pm UTC
Re: "Haiku Proof" discussion
revolutionx897 wrote:One proof that there's an infinite number of primes is to:
1 Assume a finite number of primes
2 Take the product of all primes (p_{1}, p_{2},...,p_{n} with p_{1} as the 1st prime and p_{n} as the last) and add 1
3 This number cannot be divisible by any of the primes in the list, so it must either be prime or divisible by a prime larger than p_{n}, and therefore the original assumption of a finite number of primes is invalid
This seems to be the proof Randall is using, but I'm not exactly sure what the divisors part is meant to be. Bad wording?
i was having trouble seeing #3 until i thought of modular arithmetic... then it becomes obvious. guess i have too much sleep deprivation myself >_<
Re: "Haiku Proof" discussion
The proof was shitty and the haiku wasn't even clever.
And although "you hallucinate when you're tired" has potential to make a decent comic, this one didn't do anything remotely creative or original.
Also my uncle died from sleep deprivation. Not funny not cool such a shitty comic.
And although "you hallucinate when you're tired" has potential to make a decent comic, this one didn't do anything remotely creative or original.
Also my uncle died from sleep deprivation. Not funny not cool such a shitty comic.
Randall, get out of my trunk!
 Raptor Jesus
 Posts: 81
 Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 11:52 am UTC
 Location: Everywhere, and Nowhere
 Contact:
Re: "Haiku Proof" discussion
Simon17 wrote:...Also my uncle died from sleep deprivation. Not funny not cool such a shitty comic.
You are not Sje46 (I think that was the number)
And btw what ever happened to him?
Last edited by Raptor Jesus on Wed Aug 12, 2009 4:59 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.
Re: "Haiku Proof" discussion
Attempted revision:
Take primes one through N
Product (plus 1)'s factors are?
QED, Bitches
(I'm fairly certain Randall just thought up that last line and built a comic around it.)
Take primes one through N
Product (plus 1)'s factors are?
QED, Bitches
(I'm fairly certain Randall just thought up that last line and built a comic around it.)

 Posts: 1
 Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 4:31 am UTC
Re: "Haiku Proof" discussion
If you (like me) are bugged by the given proof, consider the following:
What prime could divide
One more than all primes' product?
Q.E.D., bitches!
What prime could divide
One more than all primes' product?
Q.E.D., bitches!
Re: "Haiku Proof" discussion
Raptor Jesus wrote:Your not Sje46 (I think that was the number)
HAY RAPTOR JESUS
Look, don't be a douche. Spelling mistakes can be annoying, but then there is also such a thing as foreigners and people with dyslexia who can be great people but not master English.
 fjafjan
Randall, get out of my trunk!
 Raptor Jesus
 Posts: 81
 Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 11:52 am UTC
 Location: Everywhere, and Nowhere
 Contact:
Re: "Haiku Proof" discussion
Simon17 wrote:Raptor Jesus wrote:Simon17 wrote:...Also my uncle died from sleep deprivation. Not funny not cool such a shitty comic.
You are not Sje46 (I think that was the number)
HAY RAPTOR JESUS YOUR RETARTED
The hell? If you are gunna troll at least be original (Or entertaining)
To keep this on topic
Buy A Honda
They are not that cool or fun
Q.E.D. bitches!
Poetic license
Last edited by Raptor Jesus on Wed Aug 12, 2009 4:59 am UTC, edited 2 times in total.
Re: "Haiku Proof" discussion
Raptor Jesus wrote:The hell? If your gunna troll at least be original (Or entertaining)
http://www.wikihow.com/UseYou'reandYour
AHHHH!!!!
Randall, get out of my trunk!
 Raptor Jesus
 Posts: 81
 Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 11:52 am UTC
 Location: Everywhere, and Nowhere
 Contact:
Re: "Haiku Proof" discussion
Simon17 wrote:Raptor Jesus wrote:The hell? If your gunna troll at least be original (Or entertaining)
http://www.wikihow.com/UseYou'reandYour
AHHHH!!!!
See that had class haha I welcome that kind of troll but blatant (if that is a word?) yelling for a mistake?
Edit: But please grammar Nazi's eventually get annoying. I write "your" like that because its faster then typing "you're" but ah well
P.S.I fixed my mistakes if that makes you any happier because I'm sure your life depends on everything being perfect
Buh Duh Duh Duh Dah
Bah Duh Duh Dum Doh Hah Hah
Q.E.D. bitches!
Re: "Haiku Proof" discussion
Raptor Jesus wrote:Edit: But please grammar Nazi's eventually get annoying.
Yes, blatant is a word, but that's not how it's used.
There's a difference between being a "Nazi" and getting frustrated because I have to read multiple spelling and grammar errors in every post you make.
Also,
http://www.wikihow.com/UseApostrophes
...
I'm thinking that I just got trolled.
No grammar for you!
Randall, get out of my trunk!
Re: "Haiku Proof" discussion
Pretty sleepdeprived myself, I read "number of pirates" at first.
A math joke: r =  csc(θ)+sec(θ)  csc(θ)sec(θ) 
Re: "Haiku Proof" discussion
Primes being finite,
Take product of all, add one.
A prime! Q.E.D.
Lawsuits would be filed for using "bitches" as a form of address for students.
Furthermore, I want more haiku proofs.
Take product of all, add one.
A prime! Q.E.D.
Lawsuits would be filed for using "bitches" as a form of address for students.
Furthermore, I want more haiku proofs.
Re: "Haiku Proof" discussion
Awesome comic! I enjoy ending any argument with Q.E.D. but now I think I'm going to end them with haiku's and Q.E.D., Bitches.
*inspired*
Also.. I think the Prof used Python in the middle of the lecture.
*inspired*
Also.. I think the Prof used Python in the middle of the lecture.
Three Quotes:
Spoiler:
Re: "Haiku Proof" discussion
I find this particular proof a bit terse and unhelpful (again, ignoring the obviously incorrect "divisors of a prime part"specifically, it requires a supporting lemma that escapes me at the moment.
So, we want to prove the following, in effect, for the proof as stated to be valid:
Given consecutive primes p1....pn starting at 2, the product x of p1 to pn plus one cannot be divisible by some combination of factors a1p1, a2p2.....anpn, where a1....an are integers.
A previous poster mentioned that this is doable via modular arithmetic, which I'm sure is accurate, but without thinking about it more in that vein this claim is not self evident. In particular, it's obvious that for sufficiently high values of ai, it's possible to have a1p1.......anpn greater than x, so what we're really trying to prove here is that THERE DOES NOT EXIST A COMBINATION OF INTEGERS a1.....an such that a1p1 *.... * anpn = (p1 * p2 *...... * pn) + 1, which strikes me as not immediately selfevident Can someone explain how best to go about this proof and why it might be considered obvious?
******
Edit: Wikipedia makes the argument clearer by the simple claim that clearly (x + 1) / pi must have a remainder of 1 since pi > 1 for all pi. Certainly the proof is simple in this context, although as stated in the comic its terseness is perhaps unwarranted....although maybe so, given its elegance and expressibility in haiku. Also, remembering that I actually took an Algebra class in college, I recall that p1^a1.....pn^an would have been a much more canonical way of expressing a composite as a product of primes. silly me.
So, we want to prove the following, in effect, for the proof as stated to be valid:
Given consecutive primes p1....pn starting at 2, the product x of p1 to pn plus one cannot be divisible by some combination of factors a1p1, a2p2.....anpn, where a1....an are integers.
A previous poster mentioned that this is doable via modular arithmetic, which I'm sure is accurate, but without thinking about it more in that vein this claim is not self evident. In particular, it's obvious that for sufficiently high values of ai, it's possible to have a1p1.......anpn greater than x, so what we're really trying to prove here is that THERE DOES NOT EXIST A COMBINATION OF INTEGERS a1.....an such that a1p1 *.... * anpn = (p1 * p2 *...... * pn) + 1, which strikes me as not immediately selfevident Can someone explain how best to go about this proof and why it might be considered obvious?
******
Edit: Wikipedia makes the argument clearer by the simple claim that clearly (x + 1) / pi must have a remainder of 1 since pi > 1 for all pi. Certainly the proof is simple in this context, although as stated in the comic its terseness is perhaps unwarranted....although maybe so, given its elegance and expressibility in haiku. Also, remembering that I actually took an Algebra class in college, I recall that p1^a1.....pn^an would have been a much more canonical way of expressing a composite as a product of primes. silly me.
Last edited by Tarquin on Wed Aug 12, 2009 5:54 am UTC, edited 2 times in total.