0639: "Lincoln-Douglas"

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Clamburger
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Re: "Lincoln-Douglas" Discussion

Postby Clamburger » Tue Sep 22, 2009 8:05 pm UTC

t_catt11 wrote:Geez, people, back off. It's a "your mama" joke with an XKCD historical reference. Sure, it's not the best one of the comic, but it's fine.

Is there any difference between a historical reference and an xkcd historical reference?

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Re: "Lincoln-Douglas" Discussion

Postby SirMustapha » Tue Sep 22, 2009 8:15 pm UTC

ishkabibble wrote:I completely agree that good criticism is hard to do well. But "xkcd USED to be funny" does not equate good criticism.


Let it be clear that I didn't claim I made a good criticism of the comic here. I'm not in the mood for writing stuff the fanboys aren't willing to read, to be honest, but I can do it if there are enough people interested (say, one would be enough).

I'm on board with LtBonzai: I don't get why people so eager to share their dissatisfaction about how funny a comic is or isn't.


I also don't get the eagerness to jump on the "get out of my head!" bandwagon at every mediocre opportunity, but there are many people doing that. I guess that's just me.

Also, what is with all of the "You're just kissing the author's ass" accusations (not just here, I've read them in several threads.) First of all, it's completely possible to enjoy the comic while loathing Randall. (Maybe that could be another spin-off site: "xkcd is awesome but Randalls a dick.") Second, this is one of the....SILLIEST responses possible: it blatantly ignores actual arguments and reduces the conversation to personal attacks. ("well if you LIKE xkcd so much, why don't you MARRY RANDALL?!")


I don't quite think if I fit in that argument. Personally, I try not to make any clear connection between Randall the person and his webcomic (though he himself abuses that separation, as many of his strips seem overly, scarily personal and earnest), but several fans here do that. "Randall, get out of my head", anyone? But when I said "kiss the author's ass", I was referring to Randall as an artist, not as a person, and I was talking about people who just can't handle criticism and, because of that, think criticism doesn't belong here.

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Re: "Lincoln-Douglas" Discussion

Postby zug » Tue Sep 22, 2009 8:24 pm UTC

SirMustapha wrote:
ishkabibble wrote:I completely agree that good criticism is hard to do well. But "xkcd USED to be funny" does not equate good criticism.


Let it be clear that I didn't claim I made a good criticism of the comic here. I'm not in the mood for writing stuff the fanboys aren't willing to read, to be honest, but I can do it if there are enough people interested (say, one would be enough).

I'm on board with LtBonzai: I don't get why people so eager to share their dissatisfaction about how funny a comic is or isn't.


I also don't get the eagerness to jump on the "get out of my head!" bandwagon at every mediocre opportunity, but there are many people doing that. I guess that's just me.

Also, what is with all of the "You're just kissing the author's ass" accusations (not just here, I've read them in several threads.) First of all, it's completely possible to enjoy the comic while loathing Randall. (Maybe that could be another spin-off site: "xkcd is awesome but Randalls a dick.") Second, this is one of the....SILLIEST responses possible: it blatantly ignores actual arguments and reduces the conversation to personal attacks. ("well if you LIKE xkcd so much, why don't you MARRY RANDALL?!")


I don't quite think if I fit in that argument. Personally, I try not to make any clear connection between Randall the person and his webcomic (though he himself abuses that separation, as many of his strips seem overly, scarily personal and earnest), but several fans here do that. "Randall, get out of my head", anyone? But when I said "kiss the author's ass", I was referring to Randall as an artist, not as a person, and I was talking about people who just can't handle criticism and, because of that, think criticism doesn't belong here.

No, I don't think trolling belongs here. The words you used only vaguely resemble actual criticism, as you yourself were so quick to point out.

Also, I fail to understand why people who are continually dissatisfied with a comic continue to fucking read it.
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Re: "Lincoln-Douglas" Discussion

Postby XbHW_TestEngr » Tue Sep 22, 2009 10:57 pm UTC

I must say, for most part, the debate and commentary on this comic has been
roseap wrote:... based on logic, ethical values, and philosophy, and arguably one of the most polite and respectful ...

threads.

While I'm not actually old enough to have heard the debates in person, I do know they were a high point in American politics.
The "your mom" joke ... clever. How far we have fallen. :(

To the "your mom" haters ... (insert snarky, impolite and disrespectful comment here.)
... and there will be cake.

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benbald72 wrote:I feel connected to the author and therefore appreciate the comic, regardless of whether or not I understand the joke ....

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Re: "Lincoln-Douglas" Discussion

Postby Byrdman1324 » Wed Sep 23, 2009 3:17 am UTC

I think lincon could be BHG's great great grandfather.


...or maybe BHG is lincon and he some how got a time-machine and grew a beard...
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Re: "Lincoln-Douglas" Discussion

Postby Almost in register » Wed Sep 23, 2009 5:19 pm UTC

zug wrote:I fail to understand why people who are continually dissatisfied with a comic continue to fucking read it.


Because we're not continually dissatisfied, just occasionally. This is one of those times.

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Re: "Lincoln-Douglas" Discussion

Postby Homncruse » Wed Sep 23, 2009 8:34 pm UTC

SirMustapha wrote:
ishkabibble wrote:I completely agree that good criticism is hard to do well. But "xkcd USED to be funny" does not equate good criticism.


Let it be clear that I didn't claim I made a good criticism of the comic here. I'm not in the mood for writing stuff the fanboys aren't willing to read, to be honest, but I can do it if there are enough people interested (say, one would be enough).


We're not all fanboys, but think about where you're posting. You don't go to the Twilight Forums and post about hating Twilight and how the first book was full of epic win, but the second and third books were literary feces. You don't go to a Republican rally and promote Communism. While it's a valid opinion, and you're certainly entitled to it, you're going to catch a lot of disagreeable feedback in places geared toward the opposite opinion.

That said, I occasionally agree with the flipside too in that xkcd's quality is lessening, so I'll call your bluff and say I'm interested in your opinion and the detailed reasoning supporting it.

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Re: "Lincoln-Douglas" Discussion

Postby SirMustapha » Thu Sep 24, 2009 11:23 am UTC

Homncruse wrote:That said, I occasionally agree with the flipside too in that xkcd's quality is lessening, so I'll call your bluff and say I'm interested in your opinion and the detailed reasoning supporting it.


My problem with this comic is that it seems to be pretty much a "your mom" joke that crossed Randall's mind and he thought was awesome enough to put on the webcomic; but, to validate it, he needed a "historical context". A fictional context, of course, but something that would make the joke work. Thing is, the joke isn't really funny, "your mom" is already a very tired meme, and I don't see the cleverness in coming up with false history to justify such a weak attempt at humour. Come on, it's a webcomic featuring stick figures; wasn't there a slightly more substantial idea to work? Compare this to the visually reminiscent Wikipedian Protester comic and see the difference between a carelessly hacked together joke and a concise, clever one. This might also help you see that the "detractors" here have a good reason to be worried about the comic's decline -- xkcd was excellent, and worthy of having a very dedicated fanbase. Think about it: there are people who are probably just shrugging their shoulders and going off as if xkcd never existed, to begin with. You may say that is how we should be, but, hell, I don't want to be that fickle. I just can't bring myself to spit on the plate I just ate on. It's probably a fault of mine, I admit it; but if these boards are not open for differing opinions (and all too willing to promptly label them "trolling"), it's not my fault, and I'm not going to give in to such repression. You know the "if you don't like it, don't read it" attitude towards xkcd? I could use THAT to my posts as well. But I won't. It's your right to criticise my attitude, and I'm replying to the criticism, instead of just telling you all to fuck yourselves, because I'm not smug or arrogant -- or at least try not to be.

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Re: "Lincoln-Douglas" Discussion

Postby dennisw » Thu Sep 24, 2009 3:27 pm UTC

SirMustapha wrote: ..."your mom" is already ... very tired...


I can tell you how your mom got that way!

See. That's how it's done. <d,r,h>
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Re: "Lincoln-Douglas" Discussion

Postby neoliminal » Thu Sep 24, 2009 3:39 pm UTC

dennisw wrote:See. That's how it's done.


That's what she said.
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Re: "Lincoln-Douglas" Discussion

Postby SirMustapha » Thu Sep 24, 2009 8:21 pm UTC

dennisw wrote:See. That's how it's done.


Yeah, but your mom showed me how it is done.

I improved my writing skills a lot since she started giving me tips. Now I'm a fairly good writer thanks to her. I have absolute respect for her.

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Re: "Lincoln-Douglas" Discussion

Postby Homncruse » Mon Sep 28, 2009 4:55 pm UTC

SirMustapha wrote:
Homncruse wrote:That said, I occasionally agree with the flipside too in that xkcd's quality is lessening, so I'll call your bluff and say I'm interested in your opinion and the detailed reasoning supporting it.


My problem with this comic is that it seems to be pretty much a "your mom" joke that crossed Randall's mind and he thought was awesome enough to put on the webcomic; but, to validate it, he needed a "historical context". A fictional context, of course, but something that would make the joke work. Thing is, the joke isn't really funny, "your mom" is already a very tired meme, and I don't see the cleverness in coming up with false history to justify such a weak attempt at humour. Come on, it's a webcomic featuring stick figures; wasn't there a slightly more substantial idea to work? Compare this to the visually reminiscent Wikipedian Protester comic and see the difference between a carelessly hacked together joke and a concise, clever one. This might also help you see that the "detractors" here have a good reason to be worried about the comic's decline -- xkcd was excellent, and worthy of having a very dedicated fanbase. Think about it: there are people who are probably just shrugging their shoulders and going off as if xkcd never existed, to begin with. You may say that is how we should be, but, hell, I don't want to be that fickle. I just can't bring myself to spit on the plate I just ate on. It's probably a fault of mine, I admit it; but if these boards are not open for differing opinions (and all too willing to promptly label them "trolling"), it's not my fault, and I'm not going to give in to such repression. You know the "if you don't like it, don't read it" attitude towards xkcd? I could use THAT to my posts as well. But I won't. It's your right to criticise my attitude, and I'm replying to the criticism, instead of just telling you all to fuck yourselves, because I'm not smug or arrogant -- or at least try not to be.


Actually, I couldn't agree more. I was just playing devil's advocate to see if you'd continue to be rational. You, sir, get a gold star. You may collect it from your nearest Scribblenauts.

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Re: "Lincoln-Douglas" Discussion

Postby Rookie32 » Tue Sep 29, 2009 1:55 am UTC

I'm suprised no one has pointed out the fact that Lincoln lost the original 1858 debates.

Not to mention the fact that senators were appointed by state legislature at the time, so the whole point of the debates was questionable in the first place...

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Re: "Lincoln-Douglas" Discussion

Postby danieldaniel » Fri Oct 16, 2009 2:08 pm UTC


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Re: "Lincoln-Douglas" Discussion

Postby HighwoodFool » Sun Jan 31, 2010 9:49 am UTC

It seems that I am in a minority, but I actually like this particular comic.

Given the caption, I interpret that Randall is not only making a "your mom" joke, but also making fun of the hackneyed genre.
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