0652: "More Accurate"

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Mattman
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Re: "More Accurate" Discussion

Postby Mattman » Wed Oct 21, 2009 6:04 pm UTC

Gavin.Immer wrote:I think I'm missing something...what exactly is the point to this?


I think the point being made is that in 1984, Sarah is being hunted by a cyborg sent from the year 2029, and human guy is sent to save her with his shotgun. In reality, it's 2009 right now, and we have these unmanned drones that do precision kills. Imagine now 20 years from now, and you realize that sending back a cyborg assassin isn't nearly as likely as sending back a bombing drone.

Crushy
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Re: "More Accurate" Discussion

Postby Crushy » Wed Oct 21, 2009 6:33 pm UTC

I first interpreted it as a parody of all the movies with the lead roles always narrowly avoiding death, but instead in this case the lead role is killed immediately. I quite liked that version, was refreshing.

Cal27
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Re: "More Accurate" Discussion

Postby Cal27 » Wed Oct 21, 2009 7:33 pm UTC

GuitarFreak wrote:As far as I know, missions can be programmed in to the drone and it'll do everything by itself. Take off, kill the target, and land without anyone controlling it.

This kind of makes me wonder if you could have an RTS-style control for one of these. Use Google Earth as the map, right click on your target and just watch while the plane does everything for you.

I wonder if they could implement a game that controls little robots and makes them fight each other in the style of an RTS.

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kernelpanic
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Re: "More Accurate" Discussion

Postby kernelpanic » Wed Oct 21, 2009 8:19 pm UTC

I think this is an xkcd first: I don't remember seeing a death happen in the strip before.
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A.DTheMediocre
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Re: "More Accurate" Discussion

Postby A.DTheMediocre » Wed Oct 21, 2009 8:47 pm UTC

Nope. Black hat guy painted the walls (and ceiling!) with a guy's blood in one strip.

I liked the comic, but I refuse to explain why.

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kernelpanic
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Re: "More Accurate" Discussion

Postby kernelpanic » Wed Oct 21, 2009 9:11 pm UTC

yes, but the death wasn't in the strip. Then you could add another one to the list, the comic with the car running off a cliff.
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Faranya
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Re: "More Accurate" Discussion

Postby Faranya » Wed Oct 21, 2009 9:20 pm UTC

That robotic drone reminds me more of Cylons than the Terminator.

If somebody suggests making them autonomous, I am going to have to say "JESUS CHRIST ARE YOU INSANE MAN? WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU THINKING!"

Of course, if they say "We want to see if we can make them autonomous." I'm all for it.
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petr
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Re: "More Accurate" Discussion

Postby petr » Wed Oct 21, 2009 9:34 pm UTC

Great point! (like many others comicses here :) )
Just in reality... isn't this plane only for exploration (i.e. tracking the enemy but unable to carry weapons)?

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Fat Zombie
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Re: "More Accurate" Discussion

Postby Fat Zombie » Wed Oct 21, 2009 9:49 pm UTC

petr wrote:Great point! (like many others comicses here :) )
Just in reality... isn't this plane only for exploration (i.e. tracking the enemy but unable to carry weapons)?


As I'm not sure whether we can post big images on here, I'll have to link it: I theenk not, mister petr.
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DesSidDes
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Re: "More Accurate" Discussion

Postby DesSidDes » Wed Oct 21, 2009 9:58 pm UTC

I might just be crazy, but I feel like recently the frequency of comics that incorporate color has increased. Anyone else notice something similar?

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Wyvern
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Re: "More Accurate" Discussion

Postby Wyvern » Wed Oct 21, 2009 10:32 pm UTC

Cal27 wrote:
GuitarFreak wrote:As far as I know, missions can be programmed in to the drone and it'll do everything by itself. Take off, kill the target, and land without anyone controlling it.

This kind of makes me wonder if you could have an RTS-style control for one of these. Use Google Earth as the map, right click on your target and just watch while the plane does everything for you.

I wonder if they could implement a game that controls little robots and makes them fight each other in the style of an RTS.


One? if they could do that, then I'd imagine that one person could would control, ten, twenty, maybe hundreds.

I'm imagining wars being played out RTS-style. Battles being fought entirely by unmanned vehicles with rudimentary AIs commanded by a handful of people thousands of miles away. Freaky....... (but cool! go future!)

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PhantomPhanatic
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Re: "More Accurate" Discussion

Postby PhantomPhanatic » Wed Oct 21, 2009 11:15 pm UTC

I especially liked the well drawn predator with shading and all. Very nice.
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Zarak666
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Re: "More Accurate" Discussion

Postby Zarak666 » Thu Oct 22, 2009 1:37 am UTC

A stupid human could be killed by a Predator, but what about a Velociraptor!

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Eikinkloster
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Re: "More Accurate" Discussion

Postby Eikinkloster » Thu Oct 22, 2009 2:07 am UTC

ExplodingTeeth wrote:If I remember, the issue was that in 2029 they only had the technology to send back organic tissue.


Suspension of disbelief required. They had a metallic robot with a fusion cell pass just because it was covered in organic tissue. Solution: stuff the stomach of a whale with guns and send the critter. Duh.
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Vieto
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Re: "More Accurate" Discussion

Postby Vieto » Thu Oct 22, 2009 2:21 am UTC

kernelpanic wrote:I think this is an xkcd first: I don't remember seeing a death happen in the strip before.


http://xkcd.com/311/

lots of death

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Eikinkloster
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Re: "More Accurate" Discussion

Postby Eikinkloster » Thu Oct 22, 2009 2:30 am UTC

Cal27 wrote:
GuitarFreak wrote:As far as I know, missions can be programmed in to the drone and it'll do everything by itself. Take off, kill the target, and land without anyone controlling it.

This kind of makes me wonder if you could have an RTS-style control for one of these. Use Google Earth as the map, right click on your target and just watch while the plane does everything for you.

I wonder if they could implement a game that controls little robots and makes them fight each other in the style of an RTS.


I would enjoy a RTS in which you lead autonomous squads. They would request general orders, report in critical situations, but otherwise proceed without your intervention, like in a real war in which the general doesn't need to micromanage each squad. Your army should behave much like an AI led army, but you would be able to intervene in real time whenever you felt the AI wasn't taking the optimal decisions. If anyone knows of a RTS with such mechanics, I'd really love to know.

I already do a lot of setting two AI armies against each other, on Command & Conquer 3, Supreme Commander and Dawn of War, to learn the AI strategies or simply enjoy the fireworks. I also like to turtle enough that the AI can't uproot me, but that I still have to constantly resupply my forces to keep the AI at bay. Still it frustrates me a lot that I can't correct the AI shortcomings of Supreme Commander, for instance, which seems to ignore the nuclear war mechanics. It doesn't build nukes or counter nukes God knows why.

I don't recall any glaring limitations on C&C 3 or Dawn of War AIs... But I'm a very lousy RTS player. No good memory or feeling for advanced tactics & strategies.
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Eikinkloster
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Re: "More Accurate" Discussion

Postby Eikinkloster » Thu Oct 22, 2009 2:43 am UTC

nirvana_grace wrote:" . . . Cro-Magnon University Prof. Ogg has invented the 'arrow' -- an autonomous weapon which, released by the inventor, flies by itself to the target and, witnesses claim, is capable of killing a Neanderthal with no physical contact to its wielder." -- Neolithic News Network

It's all just better rocks.


LOL :D :D :D
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Last edited by Eikinkloster on Thu Oct 22, 2009 3:39 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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hthall
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Re: "More Accurate" Discussion

Postby hthall » Thu Oct 22, 2009 2:53 am UTC

Nice one.

(That's my profound comment.)

gelidumbra
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Re: "More Accurate" Discussion

Postby gelidumbra » Thu Oct 22, 2009 4:13 am UTC

tl;dr any of the previous posts, but UAVs (unmanned aerial vehicles) are, in my opinion, one of the best advancements that in aeronautics that we've made. i know it was more of a long process than a discovery, but after all of the preliminary testing of droidies as reconnaissance aircraft, we've now been able to outfit them with small payloads as well... making them deadly, compact (unmanned) angels of death reigning fire from above :D.

awesome comic.

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Re: "More Accurate" Discussion

Postby Azrael001 » Thu Oct 22, 2009 4:20 am UTC

Eikinkloster wrote:If anyone knows of a RTS with such mechanics, I'd really love to know.
Have you played Dwarf Fortress?
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Magic Molly
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Re: "More Accurate" Discussion

Postby Magic Molly » Thu Oct 22, 2009 4:50 am UTC

Azrael001 wrote:
Eikinkloster wrote:If anyone knows of a RTS with such mechanics, I'd really love to know.
Have you played Dwarf Fortress?


Don't even go there.

Eikinkloster wrote:I already do a lot of setting two AI armies against each other, on Command & Conquer 3, Supreme Commander and Dawn of War, to learn the AI strategies or simply enjoy the fireworks. I also like to turtle enough that the AI can't uproot me, but that I still have to constantly resupply my forces to keep the AI at bay. Still it frustrates me a lot that I can't correct the AI shortcomings of Supreme Commander, for instance, which seems to ignore the nuclear war mechanics. It doesn't build nukes or counter nukes God knows why.

I don't recall any glaring limitations on C&C 3 or Dawn of War AIs... But I'm a very lousy RTS player. No good memory or feeling for advanced tactics & strategies.


There are several very nice AI mods for Supreme Commander. (the guy who made one of the best and best known one actually got a job with making Supcom2) AFAIK, they build and use nukes quite well.

So much fun to set an attacking oriented one vs a defensive oriented one.

dainbramage
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Re: "More Accurate" Discussion

Postby dainbramage » Thu Oct 22, 2009 6:24 am UTC

Somewhat surprisingly, I'd watched this on TV shortly before reading the comic.


So uhh, get out of my head randall?

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Kisama
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Re: "More Accurate" Discussion

Postby Kisama » Thu Oct 22, 2009 6:51 am UTC

The phrase "left the present and entered the future" annoys me. Although I just realised the time-travel idea ties in with the Terminator theme, so I am appeased :) Even though time-travel movies are almost always stupid.

radtea wrote:As this comic points out, we have entered the the future. We just haven't learned a damned thing from the past before doing so, and still think that killing people is an efficient means of solving problems. It is--in rare cases--effective. It is never efficient, economically or morally.
I dunno... I'm sure it can be economically efficient.
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StClair
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Re: "More Accurate" Discussion

Postby StClair » Thu Oct 22, 2009 8:10 am UTC

nirvana_grace wrote:" . . . Cro-Magnon University Prof. Ogg has invented the 'arrow' -- an autonomous weapon which, released by the inventor, flies by itself to the target and, witnesses claim, is capable of killing a Neanderthal with no physical contact to its wielder." -- Neolithic News Network

YOU AM PLAY GODS!

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Re: "More Accurate" Discussion

Postby Plasma Man » Thu Oct 22, 2009 9:37 am UTC

Of course we're living in the future - it's the 21st century. Never mind the robot assassins though, I want my jet pack.
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Vieto
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Re: "More Accurate" Discussion

Postby Vieto » Thu Oct 22, 2009 10:53 am UTC

Plasma Man wrote:Of course we're living in the future - it's the 21st century. Never mind the robot assassins though, I want my jet pack.


never mind jetpacks, I want my hoverboard / flying car!

of course, BTTF2 said we would have them in 6 years.

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cellocgw
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Read TNY this week

Postby cellocgw » Thu Oct 22, 2009 2:09 pm UTC

The New Yorker has a pretty long article on drones this week.
The scary part isn't their autonomous abilities (or lack thereof), but that CIA is using them, probably far more than the military. Unlike the military, there's no oversight and essentially no accountability. One way to look at it is: if CIA is not the military, then it's not a war/military action, which means it's 100% assassinations.

ouch
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Re: "More Accurate" Discussion

Postby Faranya » Thu Oct 22, 2009 5:16 pm UTC

gelidumbra wrote:tl;dr any of the previous posts, but UAVs (unmanned aerial vehicles) are, in my opinion, one of the best advancements that in aeronautics that we've made. i know it was more of a long process than a discovery, but after all of the preliminary testing of droidies as reconnaissance aircraft, we've now been able to outfit them with small payloads as well... making them deadly, compact (unmanned) angels of death reigning fire from above :D.

awesome comic.


While I agree that the fact that we are capable of crating them is indeed impressive, I fundamentally disagree with their usage as weapons. Dehumanizing war, replacing soldiers with machines, only makes war that much more acceptable a solution, and increases the collateral damage done to civilians at the targets of these frivolous wars that much greater.

Soldiers are meant to die in wars, and it is meant to be an unavoidable tragedy. That way, war is considered to be distasteful. A war without soldiers is just a massacre.
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neoliminal
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Re: "More Accurate" Discussion

Postby neoliminal » Thu Oct 22, 2009 5:20 pm UTC

June 5, 1942 <-- the last date on which the United States of America declared war.

And the United States of America is not allowed to assassinate people:
EO 12333 wrote: 2.11 PROHIBITION ON ASSASSINATION

No person employed by or acting on behalf of the United States
Government shall engage in, or conspire to engage in,
assassination.


Obviously we've engaged in what would be considered wars since 1942, (and everyone has called wars), but declaring war ties us to many treaties that get in the way of administrative goals. Like assassination.
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boradis
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Re: "More Accurate" Discussion

Postby boradis » Thu Oct 22, 2009 6:25 pm UTC

aquilo wrote:Doesn't it have to be covered in skin to go back in time? If you want it to fly, it might have to be some kind of bat-robot.


Thank you!

I think a way funnier image is just the Predator silhouette covered in a layer of flesh. Nekkid flyin' Predator robo-plane.

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Re: "More Accurate" Discussion

Postby Kailen » Thu Oct 22, 2009 6:55 pm UTC

In fairness to the Terminator franchise, the human-looking androids were "recent" developments, long into the robot vs human war. They already HAD plenty of robots for all kinds of missions, large ones, small ones, flight drones etc. The human looking ones were developed specifically to infiltrate the remaining human colonies. Even then, the T-600 line came first, which had an outer skin that only passed from a distance. The T-800s were fairly "new" to the future time line by Terminator 1, and were fairly effective at their job. (Though it was long enough that they had started using dogs as sentries to sniff out the T-800's)
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Re: "More Accurate" Discussion

Postby herbys » Thu Oct 22, 2009 7:58 pm UTC

OK, people, either this comic came out one decade early through some time warping wormhole, or I've been missing under a rock.
Because to my knowledge there are no autonomous killing machines in use or even on trial at this moment. Raptors and the like are all spy planes without weapons, and the only weapon carrying robots in existence are all ground-bound and remotely operated.
So the strip is fun, but not terrifying because of it being real today, because it isn't. I'm pretty sure we'll see it during our lifetimes (OK, other than the firs victim, which will not see it) but it's not there yet.

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Eikinkloster
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Re: "More Accurate" Discussion

Postby Eikinkloster » Thu Oct 22, 2009 8:07 pm UTC

herbys wrote:the only weapon carrying robots in existence are all ground-bound and remotely operated.


I'm not sure what "ground-bound" means, but if it means non flying, you're missing the Predator. It carries missiles. You can see one dogfighting a Mig-25 (and losing) here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWUR3sgKUV8
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P13808
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Re: "More Accurate" Discussion

Postby P13808 » Thu Oct 22, 2009 11:21 pm UTC

Isn't there a rule of robotics saying robots can't intentionally harm humans?

matt.matolcsi
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Re: "More Accurate" Discussion

Postby matt.matolcsi » Thu Oct 22, 2009 11:30 pm UTC

I thought it was important to point out that current UAV's are not exactly robot assassins. Both the Predator and Reaper (among the 5-7 or so others that come up on Wikipedia) require remote (presumably) human control. AFAIK, there is no AI making decisions about when to fire a missile. (And given the state of search engines and machine learning, I think it's unlikely that they would in the next 10 years.)

IOW, things aren't totally f'd-up yet.

herbys
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Re: "More Accurate" Discussion

Postby herbys » Fri Oct 23, 2009 2:11 am UTC

P13808 wrote:Isn't there a rule of robotics saying robots can't intentionally harm humans?


You can always claim that enemies are not humans. It has been done before.

herbys
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Re: "More Accurate" Discussion

Postby herbys » Fri Oct 23, 2009 2:13 am UTC

Eikinkloster wrote:
herbys wrote:the only weapon carrying robots in existence are all ground-bound and remotely operated.


I'm not sure what "ground-bound" means, but if it means non flying, you're missing the Predator. It carries missiles. You can see one dogfighting a Mig-25 (and losing) here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWUR3sgKUV8



Predators are not unmanned. They are piloted from the ground by pilots via radio. Robots are not making decisions. Not yet.

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Eikinkloster
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Re: "More Accurate" Discussion

Postby Eikinkloster » Fri Oct 23, 2009 2:54 am UTC

herbys wrote: Predators are not unmanned. They are piloted from the ground by pilots via radio. Robots are not making decisions. Not yet.


Agreed. But that was not what I was disputing. I was disputing this:

herbys wrote:Raptors and the like are all spy planes without weapons"


I actually don't know what you meant by raptors. Only raptor I know of is the F-22 raptor. Is this raptor you refered to an actual AI robot? My statement is that not all drones are just spy planes, the Predator being the case I know.
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axirim
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Re: "More Accurate" Discussion

Postby axirim » Fri Oct 23, 2009 6:36 am UTC

Vieto wrote:
kernelpanic wrote:I think this is an xkcd first: I don't remember seeing a death happen in the strip before.


http://xkcd.com/311/

lots of death


I rather think that's just a lot of ass-kickery. "River Tam Beats Up Everyone" is not "River Tam Kills Everyone".

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Re: "More Accurate" Discussion

Postby rpgamer » Fri Oct 23, 2009 10:26 pm UTC

Has this video been posted yet?

Just a few steps away from Terminators...
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