0084: "National Language"

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Locoluis
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Re: "National Language" Discussion

Postby Locoluis » Wed Nov 14, 2007 1:44 pm UTC

Why not Annúnaid (=Westron)? It was pretty much the universal language among humans in Middle Earth.

Or do we also want to be lankier, have pointy ears, and live hundreds of years? :P
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Re: "National Language" Discussion

Postby Moo » Wed Nov 14, 2007 2:02 pm UTC

Locoluis wrote:Or do we also want to be lankier, have pointy ears, and live hundreds of years? :P
Wouldn't mind me some of that pointy lanky longevity.
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Kin
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Re: "National Language" Discussion

Postby Kin » Wed Nov 14, 2007 9:17 pm UTC

Viagra.






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Nero
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Re: "National Language" Discussion

Postby Nero » Fri Nov 16, 2007 10:23 am UTC

Ari wrote:
mrmanme wrote:It certainly makes sense to offer services in multiple languages, but only the common ones. In Canada, all Federal services have to give the option of either French or English. In many cases, because the Ontario/Quebec region uses both languages anyways, the rest of the country gets both. I used to think that the contests in Coke bottles meant I could instantly win a "ganger", whatever that was. However, other than English and French, if you want help in another language you're on your own. If you want something in German or Spanish, you've got to find someone bilingual and have them help you :S.

In Japan, where I currently am, it's not uncommon to see things in five languages: Japanese, Korean, Chinese, English, and Russian. Interestingly, English is the least spoken of these languages in this area (VERY few gaijin), but is always put on to look professional. In this area, the Korean, Chinese, and Russian are provided to be helpful, out of no obligation. Try and get something in any other language and you will get an angry glare, like "Why would you even want to speak French?"


Well, given they already provide them in five languages...

Things here aren't quite as thoughtful. We only recognise English, Maori, and New Zealand Sign Language.


I really really want to see a sign written in NZSL. For while the language is written as English, sentence construction and grammar are totally different. It would mess with people's heads.

Eldan
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Re: "National Language" Discussion

Postby Eldan » Fri Nov 16, 2007 10:42 am UTC

Heh. We also get five languages here. German, French, Italian and rumansh as the four native languages and sometimes english, just to be nice to people.

jdmimic
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Re: "National Language" Discussion

Postby jdmimic » Wed Jan 13, 2010 6:48 pm UTC

The current de facto system in place is fine as it is. A lot of folks like to use hyperbole when trying to argue an "English-only" stance, saying something like "oh we can't have 50 translations of everything we make!" when the reality is, like what's been said here, we're really only talking about 2 to 4 languages, tops, and even then just dependent on area (no one here's been hyperbolic so far--well, seriously hyperbolic at least).


This is not entirely true. A local school district near me is required to provide foreign language services in any language requested. This requires them to provide translators in almost 40 different languages and I am not talking a bout a large school district in a major city (I know what you're thinking, he must be exaggerating, I didn't believe it either until they showed me the list of languages they were paying translators for). I can only imagine what it must be like for a school system in, say, New York. The costs for all of these translators is huge. So it is neither cost-effective nor a minor issue for them, but they are required to do so. This requirement is because we don't have a national language, so all languages must be available and that number is much larger than people think.

I see valid arguments on both sides of the debate, so I am not going to say which one is "right", but in any discussion, we need to make sure we are speaking from accurate conceptions, not assumptions that may or may not be true. In this case, the financial costs of providing multiple language services is quite high in many places. Whether or not that cost is justifiable is another question and much more of a social and philosophical debate.

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Re: "National Language" Discussion

Postby ocdscale » Wed Jan 13, 2010 8:11 pm UTC

jdmimic wrote:This is not entirely true. A local school district near me is required to provide foreign language services in any language requested. This requires them to provide translators in almost 40 different languages and I am not talking a bout a large school district in a major city (I know what you're thinking, he must be exaggerating, I didn't believe it either until they showed me the list of languages they were paying translators for). I can only imagine what it must be like for a school system in, say, New York.


Are they paying the salary of the translators? Or does that just mean the school has a business relationship with the translators and can hire them if something needs translating?

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Re: "National Language" Discussion

Postby Coffee » Mon Jan 25, 2010 7:56 pm UTC

I may be biased, but I say make plains Apache the official language.
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Re: "National Language" Discussion

Postby stolid » Fri Jan 29, 2010 6:06 pm UTC

I don't really understand the hate over the non-de facto languages in countries. Personally here in the US I would have little issue with Spanish taking over (my 2nd language, which I'm intermediately good in). Likewise with any other language if there's a significant demand I'd gladly attempt to learn some of it. Sadly Americans don't pay much attention to foreign languages, even to the ones growing hugely in the US (Spanish). I also think immigrants should make a decent effort to learn the language of whatever country they're in, but they shouldn't be denied any help in their native language. Likewise if I were to say move to Sweden, I'd seriously attempt to learn the language (possibly a bad example...half of Sweden speaks English, but whatever).
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Raptortech97
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Re: "National Language" Discussion

Postby Raptortech97 » Sat Jan 30, 2010 1:43 am UTC

You know what people should speak? Latin. For all of Europe, the Americas, and Africa. Australia and Asia can do what they want.
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Re: "National Language" Discussion

Postby santy22 » Sat Jan 30, 2010 5:54 am UTC

Great comic.
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BAZINGA!

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Re: "National Language" Discussion

Postby mirni » Sat Jan 30, 2010 6:49 am UTC

Raptortech97 wrote:You know what people should speak? Latin. For all of Europe, the Americas, and Africa. Australia and Asia can do what they want.


People needn't have to speak anything. Although Latin might arguably be a good idea, the very idea of people having to learn a dead language is quite contradictory.

I am Greek, by the way, and I live in Greece, where about 15% of the population are first generation immigrants. The better part of them speak a fair amount of greek, quite a bit don't speak any at all, very few speak fluent greek. But I consider this a success. Native-language speakers should remember how difficult it is to actually learn their language. Personally, I feel for people who have to learn greek. It's a powerful language, but a hell to master.

-m-

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ced623
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Re: "National Language" Discussion

Postby ced623 » Tue May 11, 2010 11:56 am UTC

The way i see it, we speak english in the US because we went to war several hundred years ago, and took the land from the indians. do i think we did the right thing? no, i dont; but it has happened. so now that we speak english here, the mexican/cuban/other hispanic population should either learn our language, or the US should realize that it is a war and take action.
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Re: 0084: "National Language"

Postby 20andHeartless » Tue May 15, 2012 5:32 am UTC

People who move to the United States should learn English, period. And not because it's something I want, but because it's in their best interest. What do you suppose the earning power is for someone who doesn't speak English in this country, as compared to someone who does?

The whole "righteous indignation" thing that so many people do when confronted with this view is really obnoxious and frankly a little racist. We should encourage immigrants to speak English, because that's the best way to be successful here. The character in this comic can say, "you don't have to learn English, because we didn't learn Cherokee" and sound clever to people who aren't paying attention, but what's really happening is that immigrants are being patronized rather than encouraged to do something that would be truly beneficial to them and their family.

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Re: "National Language" Discussion

Postby Widmerpool » Thu May 17, 2012 1:59 pm UTC

Scilly_Guy wrote:Its surprising the number of United Statesians who can't speak any language (I am aware of the irony! It was intentional), they claim to be able to speak English but when us Brits try to point out that you have it all wrong you claim that we speak your language, hmm now if I recall you're descended from us!

Nice troll, but your spoon doesn't work on me!
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Re: "National Language" Discussion

Postby marcel » Thu May 17, 2012 3:00 pm UTC

Widmerpool wrote:
Scilly_Guy wrote:Its surprising the number of United Statesians who can't speak any language (I am aware of the irony! It was intentional), they claim to be able to speak English but when us Brits try to point out that you have it all wrong you claim that we speak your language, hmm now if I recall you're descended from us!

Nice troll, but your spoon doesn't work on me!

You do realise you are responding to a trollish post made four and a half years ago by a poster who has made 20 posts in total.

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Re: "National Language" Discussion

Postby Widmerpool » Thu May 17, 2012 3:04 pm UTC

marcel wrote:
Widmerpool wrote:
Scilly_Guy wrote:Its surprising the number of United Statesians who can't speak any language (I am aware of the irony! It was intentional), they claim to be able to speak English but when us Brits try to point out that you have it all wrong you claim that we speak your language, hmm now if I recall you're descended from us!

Nice troll, but your spoon doesn't work on me!

You do realise you are responding to a trollish post made four and a half years ago by a poster who has made 20 posts in total.

Ah.

Oh.

<embarrassed>
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