0694: "Retro Virus"

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0694: "Retro Virus"

Postby WhiskerTips » Wed Jan 27, 2010 5:03 am UTC

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http://xkcd.com/694/

Title: He says this is the year of Linux on the desktop! The world of Windows will fade any moment now!

I like this a lot, even though I use windows often. :D

Everyone knows the reason to use windows is to wait for that one perfect virus which installs and organizes millions of good quality porn pictures on your computer!
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Re: "Retro Virus" Discussion

Postby curuinor » Wed Jan 27, 2010 5:06 am UTC

Hmm. Such an idea would be akin to anti-crime, as espoused by Pratchett. Something similar to breaking-and-decorating and whitemailing(threatening to expose donations to charity).

Edit addition: Can you get Kazaa for Linux? I mean, the mocking people could be familiar with it or have switched from XP to Linux, but that reference points more to the direction of newer-Windows users.
Last edited by curuinor on Wed Jan 27, 2010 2:16 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: "Retro Virus" Discussion

Postby Alsadius » Wed Jan 27, 2010 5:07 am UTC

Am I the only one who thinks that this smacks of bragging about using an OS too unpopular for people to bother writing viruses for it?
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Re: "Retro Virus" Discussion

Postby WhiskerTips » Wed Jan 27, 2010 5:08 am UTC

Alsadius wrote:Am I the only one who thinks that this smacks of bragging about using an OS too unpopular for people to bother writing viruses for it?


This is bragging? Nonsense...


/sarcasm
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Re: "Retro Virus" Discussion

Postby chocolate.razorblades » Wed Jan 27, 2010 5:09 am UTC

lmao. Always behind everyone else. This is probably the same guy from this comic. :)
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Re: "Retro Virus" Discussion

Postby gotcha84 » Wed Jan 27, 2010 5:10 am UTC

The world of Doors will open any moment now!
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Re: "Retro Virus" Discussion

Postby Comic JK » Wed Jan 27, 2010 5:11 am UTC

Alsadius wrote:Am I the only one who thinks that this smacks of bragging about using an OS too unpopular for people to bother writing viruses for it?

It is authentically harder to write viruses for Linux machines, partly because of design differences and partly because with open source more of the hackers are on your side.

Bragging it certainly is, but not unjustified.
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Re: "Retro Virus" Discussion

Postby WhiskerTips » Wed Jan 27, 2010 5:11 am UTC

chocolate.razorblades wrote:lmao. Always behind everyone else. This is probably the same guy from this comic. :)


And the one making fun of him is probably this guy.
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Re: "Retro Virus" Discussion

Postby Warriorccc0 » Wed Jan 27, 2010 5:18 am UTC

chocolate.razorblades wrote:lmao. Always behind everyone else. This is probably the same guy from this comic. :)


Probably also this one.
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Re: "Retro Virus" Discussion

Postby traversability » Wed Jan 27, 2010 5:19 am UTC

Not going to lie, the title totally made this comic for me. What's that you say? That wasn't the main joke? But ... retro! Viruses! It's hilarious!

My love affair with puns has probably reached unhealthy levels.
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Re: "Retro Virus" Discussion

Postby Shale » Wed Jan 27, 2010 5:21 am UTC

I can't decide if this is making fun of Linux snobs or a roundabout way of being one.
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Re: "Retro Virus" Discussion

Postby Interactive Civilian » Wed Jan 27, 2010 5:33 am UTC

Smug Mac user checking in. :P :mrgreen:
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Re: "Retro Virus" Discussion

Postby Magic Molly » Wed Jan 27, 2010 5:34 am UTC

Shale wrote:I can't decide if this is making fun of Linux snobs or a roundabout way of being one.


Both.

I hate it when mac users brag about the lack of viruses.
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Re: "Retro Virus" Discussion

Postby Omegaton » Wed Jan 27, 2010 5:39 am UTC

Wow, am I out of touch? I had no idea viruses/Windows had declined this much.
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Re: "Retro Virus" Discussion

Postby djublonskopf » Wed Jan 27, 2010 5:39 am UTC

Magic Molly wrote:
Shale wrote:I can't decide if this is making fun of Linux snobs or a roundabout way of being one.


Both.

I hate it when mac users brag about the lack of viruses.


I just remind them that my Etch-a-Sketch doesn't get viruses either.
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Re: "Retro Virus" Discussion

Postby e1000 » Wed Jan 27, 2010 5:42 am UTC

I don't even think it was the comic referenced the 'traditional' desktop linux like suse or ubuntu.

I first saw the comic on my Android (read: linux) powered smartphone.
Anybody who read it on their kindle can also thank linux.
If you use a mac, or an ipod, you are using yet another flavor of unix.

Perhaps in a year we will be reading this on one of the many inexpensive linux or OSX powered tablets with 3G connectivity. Windows is slowly dying.
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Re: "Retro Virus" Discussion

Postby Shale » Wed Jan 27, 2010 5:49 am UTC

djublonskopf wrote:I just remind them that my Etch-a-Sketch doesn't get viruses either.


Something else that doesn't get viruses: My Windows PC. Because I'm not a moron.
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Re: "Retro Virus" Discussion

Postby cjmcjmcjmcjm » Wed Jan 27, 2010 5:52 am UTC

e1000 wrote:Perhaps in a year we will be reading this on one of the many inexpensive linux or OSX powered tablets with 3G connectivity. Windows is slowly dying.

Inexpensive OS X machines? You must be joking! As Steve Jobs said (yes, this is a paraphrase)
I haven't found a way to make a sub-U$500 computer that isn't a piece of junk
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Re: "Retro Virus" Discussion

Postby Benson » Wed Jan 27, 2010 5:57 am UTC

Everyone seems to think this is about Linux. Maybe I'm stupid, but I thought the joke was something to do with Windows 7 no longer getting viruses... Note win32 (where everyone these days uses 64-bit, but 64-bit XP was a horrendous mess), and the alt-text implication that "year-of-desktop-linux/death-of-windows" thread is as dated and silly as XP viruses -- because Windows 7's awesome security has eliminated the virus reason to switch. (Note I took the joke to be about 7's improved security, but I don't really know if it's improved much because I don't have/want a Windows 7 box. My current laptop came with Vista, whose security is famously annoying enough to make most users disable it or numbly click through anything, a la "sudo rm -rf /" and while I thought of getting a student-discounted upgrade at one point, I realized I boot into Windows rarely enough that it wouldn't be worth the hassle to upgrade, reinstall cygwin, etc., for whatever benefit 7 might bring during those few hours a month. So please, don't try to argue with me about the merit's of 7's allegedly improved UAC setup.)

Either way, I'm afraid it's lost on me -- I ran an XP box as a daily driver at work for a number of years, and never had a virus infection. The reason I use free UNIXen almost exclusively is because I like UNIX better, not because I think it's a magic bullet that will allow me to open suspicious web pages in a browser tightly integrated with the OS, execute random attachments, run in god-mode all the time, and generally carry on stupidly and irresponsibly, while the mighty penguin/daemon saves me from all harm; certainly there are more exploits in the wild for Windows, and there's a greater chance of catching a virus in spite of sane precautions on XP than on slackware, but the chance for both cases is quite small.
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Re: "Retro Virus" Discussion

Postby e1000 » Wed Jan 27, 2010 6:07 am UTC

cjmcjmcjmcjm wrote:Inexpensive OS X machines? You must be joking! As Steve Jobs said (yes, this is a paraphrase)
I haven't found a way to make a sub-U$500 computer that isn't a piece of junk


Carrier subsidies; worked for the iphone...
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Re: "Retro Virus" Discussion

Postby Mighty Jalapeno » Wed Jan 27, 2010 6:09 am UTC

Interactive Civilian wrote:Smug Mac user checking in. :P :mrgreen:

We just call you guys "smack-users".
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Re: "Retro Virus" Discussion

Postby niknak94 » Wed Jan 27, 2010 6:15 am UTC

Windows doesn't get viruses! It just gets stupid people to buy it, then google 'free virus download'.
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Re: "Retro Virus" Discussion

Postby PlayingMonkey » Wed Jan 27, 2010 6:20 am UTC

I have windows 7, got it with student discount a few days after it came out.

It was pretty easy to install though windows glitched the .ISO file. Other than that I have had no problems with it on my laptop. Or my desktop.
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Re: "Retro Virus" Discussion

Postby Eebster the Great » Wed Jan 27, 2010 6:21 am UTC

The whole comic confused me. Is the XP guy an ordinary dude getting harassed by Linux assholes? That would be the most straightforward interpretation, but Windows users don't generally call their PCs "boxes."

But beyond that, Linux isn't new . . . at all. It was released in 1991. XP was 2001. So the whole premise is a little strange.

P.S. niknak, I get viruses, and I am not stupid. I just occasionally go on shady sites with my antivirus subscription expired :D. But they really aren't that hard to remove. Usually. And Security Task Manager is your friend (it has a free download).
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Viruses on Unix systems?

Postby almafuerte » Wed Jan 27, 2010 6:24 am UTC

Ok, I'll explain it as simply as possible:

On any REAL operating system you have a filesystem, with directories that have different permissions. DIfferent directories serve different purposes. You have a unified, secure login mechanism. When logged in, you are one user and one user only belonging to a given group. That user/group has a given set of permissions on each directory (each directory has an owner, and permissions for the owner, group of owner, and rest of the world). Those permissions are: Read, write and execute. ANYTHING that you execute directly is executed under your current user no matter what. Then, you have a SINGLE secure way of executing programs under other users.

All of that is true for all modern operating systems, except windows. Also, all modern operating systems are POSIX compliant (MacOSX, GNU/Linux, FreeBSD, OpenBSD, NetBSD, HPUX, etc, etc, etc.). The only "operating system" that is NOT POSIX compliant is windows.

All of that means that whatever it is you execute in your computer is executed under your regular user. That user has NO WRITE PERMISSIONS outside it's own home directory and /tmp. That means, that you can download and execute ANY program on your computer, as destructive as you want, and it won't be able to do anything outside your home directory. You CAN just kill that process. There's nowhere to hide. Or you can just easily log out. That's it. The system is running normally, and the malicious code is GONE. Off course, you can execute that program with root permissions. But that means intentionally running it with sudo and typing in your administrator password.

So, the only way to get a Virus on a working POSIX system is to manually install it. Off course, there's another way: A vulnerability. That means that there must be a vuln on your system that can allow for a real permissions scalability. Such a bug is nowdays VERY rare on Unix systems, and when one does popup, it's usually a) extremely hard to exploit b) very quickly patched.

On the other hand, on windows systems, there are no real permissions (windows never had real permissions, and it probably never will. Here is a link on a WORKING code to TOTALLY BYPASS user permissions on WINDOWS 7 http://www.istartedsomething.com/200906 ... erability/) That code is still working today, and the same has been true for all published windows versions.

So, the issue is NOT that there is more malware for windows than for other systems. Actually, it would be MORE profitable to exploit other systems. Think about this: over 65% of all public internet servers run on Unix. It would be way more profitable to gain access to servers than to gain access to shitty user computers. I am a Sysadmin. I have many Unix systems that are public and live, serving 24/7. You wouldn't believe my logs. I receive thousands of attack attempts daily. From SSH brute-force attacks, to attempts at SQL injection and apache-related exploits. And my servers have never been compromised, not even one.

So, there's a bigger market in attacking Unix servers than there is on attacking windows desktops. Actually, the more popular reason windows systems get attacked is to add them to spam-sending botnets. If it were just as easy to compromise a Unix system, the spammers would be attacking postfix/qmail/sendmail servers (That server most of the email traffic in the world) and just placing mails there. Instead, they are attacking millions of windows machines, just to put mail on a few thousand servers.

So, stop the bullshit. Windows is a totally insecure platform. It also violates your rights, your privacy, and it keeps you a slave of a huge corporation.
Unix systems, whether privative or Free aren't perfect. No system is. But they are reasonably secure. The install base of POSIX-compliant systems is probably way bigger than you think, if you take into account all the OSX desktops + all the GNU/Linux desktops + all other other Unix Desktops + All the Unix servers. And all those systems are secure.
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Re: "Retro Virus" Discussion

Postby Concept2 » Wed Jan 27, 2010 6:30 am UTC

When i read it i thought of that virus that hit a weak ago that no anti-virus software was able to block except for one. like a quarter of people got it who still used XP. Also, what was the Howard Dean Friendster comment at the end about?
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Re: "Retro Virus" Discussion

Postby macrocephalic » Wed Jan 27, 2010 6:31 am UTC

I remember getting viruses all those years ago. I still run XP in various flavours on all my PC's, I'm just smart enough to avoid dodgy websites and executables. I tried using linux for a desktop OS once, it didn't last long. Then I tried it on my netbook, and found that it wasn't really that much faster than a stripped down XP install - and I was too lazy to script functionality that I was missing.

I'm not a Windows fanboi, I'm just too lazy to be any other sort of fanboi.
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Re: Viruses on Unix systems?

Postby thisismyusername » Wed Jan 27, 2010 6:35 am UTC

almafuerte wrote:Ok, I'll explain it as simply as possible:

On any REAL operating system you have a filesystem, with directories that have different permissions. DIfferent directories serve different purposes. You have a unified, secure login mechanism. When logged in, you are one user and one user only belonging to a given group. That user/group has a given set of permissions on each directory (each directory has an owner, and permissions for the owner, group of owner, and rest of the world). Those permissions are: Read, write and execute. ANYTHING that you execute directly is executed under your current user no matter what. Then, you have a SINGLE secure way of executing programs under other users.

All of that is true for all modern operating systems, except windows. Also, all modern operating systems are POSIX compliant (MacOSX, GNU/Linux, FreeBSD, OpenBSD, NetBSD, HPUX, etc, etc, etc.). The only "operating system" that is NOT POSIX compliant is windows.

All of that means that whatever it is you execute in your computer is executed under your regular user. That user has NO WRITE PERMISSIONS outside it's own home directory and /tmp. That means, that you can download and execute ANY program on your computer, as destructive as you want, and it won't be able to do anything outside your home directory. You CAN just kill that process. There's nowhere to hide. Or you can just easily log out. That's it. The system is running normally, and the malicious code is GONE. Off course, you can execute that program with root permissions. But that means intentionally running it with sudo and typing in your administrator password.

So, the only way to get a Virus on a working POSIX system is to manually install it. Off course, there's another way: A vulnerability. That means that there must be a vuln on your system that can allow for a real permissions scalability. Such a bug is nowdays VERY rare on Unix systems, and when one does popup, it's usually a) extremely hard to exploit b) very quickly patched.

On the other hand, on windows systems, there are no real permissions (windows never had real permissions, and it probably never will. Here is a link on a WORKING code to TOTALLY BYPASS user permissions on WINDOWS 7 http://www.istartedsomething.com/200906 ... erability/) That code is still working today, and the same has been true for all published windows versions.

So, the issue is NOT that there is more malware for windows than for other systems. Actually, it would be MORE profitable to exploit other systems. Think about this: over 65% of all public internet servers run on Unix. It would be way more profitable to gain access to servers than to gain access to shitty user computers. I am a Sysadmin. I have many Unix systems that are public and live, serving 24/7. You wouldn't believe my logs. I receive thousands of attack attempts daily. From SSH brute-force attacks, to attempts at SQL injection and apache-related exploits. And my servers have never been compromised, not even one.

So, there's a bigger market in attacking Unix servers than there is on attacking windows desktops. Actually, the more popular reason windows systems get attacked is to add them to spam-sending botnets. If it were just as easy to compromise a Unix system, the spammers would be attacking postfix/qmail/sendmail servers (That server most of the email traffic in the world) and just placing mails there. Instead, they are attacking millions of windows machines, just to put mail on a few thousand servers.

So, stop the bullshit. Windows is a totally insecure platform. It also violates your rights, your privacy, and it keeps you a slave of a huge corporation.
Unix systems, whether privative or Free aren't perfect. No system is. But they are reasonably secure. The install base of POSIX-compliant systems is probably way bigger than you think, if you take into account all the OSX desktops + all the GNU/Linux desktops + all other other Unix Desktops + All the Unix servers. And all those systems are secure.



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Re: "Retro Virus" Discussion

Postby arbivark » Wed Jan 27, 2010 6:47 am UTC

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Re: "Retro Virus" Discussion

Postby Josephine » Wed Jan 27, 2010 6:56 am UTC

arbivark wrote:http://www.stripcreator.com/comics/arbi/485617

Oldest Microsoft joke ever.
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Re: Viruses on Unix systems?

Postby Tyris and Cortle » Wed Jan 27, 2010 7:16 am UTC

almafuerte wrote:and it keeps you a slave of a huge corporation.

We were prepared to take you completely seriously right up until this bit.


In unrelated news: Damnit Munroe, that is not what "retrovirus" means!
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Re: Viruses on Unix systems?

Postby almafuerte » Wed Jan 27, 2010 7:33 am UTC

Tyris and Cortle wrote:
almafuerte wrote:and it keeps you a slave of a huge corporation.

We were prepared to take you completely seriously right up until this bit.


In unrelated news: Damnit Munroe, that is not what "retrovirus" means!


I am completely serious. And you can double check every piece of information I just posted.

And about being slave to a huge corporation ... you are. You pay them shitloads of money every year. You get to use the software they allow. You buy hardware that has been certified by them. They put DRM on your system. They tell you when you have to get more ram, a better processor, or when to get a whole new system. The software you are using is not yours. You just a get a contract that says "ok, we'll let you use it, but your computer is ours. And we can terminate this contract anytime we want, and for any reason". On Windows, the "system" user (Micro$oft) has more privileges than the Administrator user (You). There are things that the System user can do that Administrator can't, and there's no way for anyone, not even you, to login as "System". Only m$ software gets access to that level.

That sounds pretty much like slavery to me. Enjoy your mediocre computer.
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Re: "Retro Virus" Discussion

Postby Shale » Wed Jan 27, 2010 7:37 am UTC

You know what actually sounds like slavery? Slavery. Human beings being owned like livestock and worked to death for the profit of another. What you talk about is more like an end-user agreemnt you don't care for. Perpective. Have some.

"M$" isn't helping us take you seriously either, nor is your "No TRUE Scotsman writes an OS like Windows!" argument.

Also, I'm kind of puzzled about paying Microsoft tons of money every year, and taking orders from them as to when to upgrade my system. Are there memos I'm not getting? Did I forget to update my e-mail address again? I hate when that happens.
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Re: "Retro Virus" Discussion

Postby westrim » Wed Jan 27, 2010 7:43 am UTC

Well, at least it's better than the soul-crushiness of the last one. Needs +1 explanation though.

Shale wrote:
djublonskopf wrote:I just remind them that my Etch-a-Sketch doesn't get viruses either.

Something else that doesn't get viruses: My Windows PC. Because I'm not a moron.

But you are a PC. But yes, it's really not that difficult to not get viruses. It's just that a large portion of the human population can be massively stupid at times, yet still generally stay a functioning part of society. The one time I got a virus, I also knew exactly how I got it.

cjmcjmcjmcjm wrote:
e1000 wrote:Perhaps in a year we will be reading this on one of the many inexpensive linux or OSX powered tablets with 3G connectivity. Windows is slowly dying.

Inexpensive OS X machines? You must be joking! As Steve Jobs said (yes, this is a paraphrase)
I haven't found a way to make a sub-U$500 computer that isn't a piece of junk

Either he has standards that need to come down to earth, or he sucks at cost control. My $450 laptop serves me very well.
Also, I shudder to think of a time when only tablets and touchscreens are available. Nothing I've tried has finer control than my mouse, and I've been butt called too many times to think touchscreen phones were ever a good idea. And I don't want to look down at the screen, I want to look forward.

PlayingMonkey wrote:I have windows 7, got it with student discount a few days after it came out.
It was pretty easy to install though windows glitched the .ISO file. Other than that I have had no problems with it on my laptop. Or my desktop.

Why did you bother getting a new OS and going through reinstalling and resetting everything instead of waiting till you just needed a new computer? I've never understood the idea of getting the latest OS when I'm already used to the one I have, unless it was free too.

almafuerte wrote:Ok, I'll explain it as simply as possible:
Blah. Blah blah. Blah blah blah blah blaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh


When you say you will explain something simply and then proceed to post a page long wall of text on a forum, you are NOT making it simple. And also guaranteeing almost no one will bother to read said wall o text (though I do seem to be well along to a wall of my own).

arbivark wrote:http://www.stripcreator.com/comics/arbi/485617


To which I say "yes, but without walls and doors, how do you keep people out?" To which you say "With windows and gates, how to you prevent people from getting in." To which I wanna say one word to you, just one word: plastics http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSxihhBzCjk locks.

Tyris and Cortle wrote:
almafuerte wrote:and it keeps you a slave of a huge corporation.

We were prepared to take you completely seriously right up until this bit.
In unrelated news: Damnit Munroe, that is not what "retrovirus" means!

Yeah, I thought a retro virus was what caused nostalgia. And why did you actually read all that? Masochism?

almafuerte wrote:
Tyris and Cortle wrote:
almafuerte wrote:and it keeps you a slave of a huge corporation.

We were prepared to take you completely seriously right up until this bit.

Bladibla, bladibla, bladi blablabla

Hats for sale! Geeeet your tinfoil hats for sale! One shred of sanity each!

Shale wrote:You know what actually sounds like slavery? Slavery. Human beings being owned like livestock and worked to death for the profit of another. What you talk about is more like an end-user agreemnt you don't care for. Perpective. Have some.

"M$" isn't helping us take you seriously either, nor is your "No TRUE Scotsman writes an OS like Windows!" argument.

Also, I'm kind of puzzled about paying Microsoft tons of money every year, and taking orders from them as to when to upgrade my system. Are there memos I'm not getting? Did I forget to update my e-mail address again? I hate when that happens.


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Re: "Retro Virus" Discussion

Postby ysth » Wed Jan 27, 2010 7:45 am UTC

djublonskopf wrote:
Magic Molly wrote:
Shale wrote:I can't decide if this is making fun of Linux snobs or a roundabout way of being one.


Both.

I hate it when mac users brag about the lack of viruses.


I just remind them that my Etch-a-Sketch doesn't get viruses either.

how very retro
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Re: Viruses on Unix systems?

Postby oliverrichard47 » Wed Jan 27, 2010 7:54 am UTC

almafuerte wrote:
Tyris and Cortle wrote:
almafuerte wrote:and it keeps you a slave of a huge corporation.

We were prepared to take you completely seriously right up until this bit.


In unrelated news: Damnit Munroe, that is not what "retrovirus" means!


I am completely serious. And you can double check every piece of information I just posted.

And about being slave to a huge corporation ... you are. You pay them shitloads of money every year. You get to use the software they allow. You buy hardware that has been certified by them. They put DRM on your system. They tell you when you have to get more ram, a better processor, or when to get a whole new system. The software you are using is not yours. You just a get a contract that says "ok, we'll let you use it, but your computer is ours. And we can terminate this contract anytime we want, and for any reason". On Windows, the "system" user (Micro$oft) has more privileges than the Administrator user (You). There are things that the System user can do that Administrator can't, and there's no way for anyone, not even you, to login as "System". Only m$ software gets access to that level.

That sounds pretty much like slavery to me. Enjoy your mediocre computer.


I'm pretty sure it is possible to 'log on' as system on Windows XP. You just kill explorer.exe with your command prompt still open. Then you can use the 'at' command to run it again in a couple of minutes. As the system scheduler is 'owned' by 'system', when explorer.exe runs IT will be owned by system. Of course, why bother when you could just use Linux :P
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Re: Viruses on Unix systems?

Postby fuzzy » Wed Jan 27, 2010 7:57 am UTC

Some nitpicking...

almafuerte wrote:On any REAL operating system you have a filesystem, with directories that have different permissions. DIfferent directories serve different purposes. You have a unified, secure login mechanism. When logged in, you are one user and one user only belonging to a given group. That user/group has a given set of permissions on each directory (each directory has an owner, and permissions for the owner, group of owner, and rest of the world). Those permissions are: Read, write and execute. ANYTHING that you execute directly is executed under your current user no matter what. Then, you have a SINGLE secure way of executing programs under other users.


On REAL filesystems you can set permissions for any user or group you like, not just one specific user, one specific group and everybody else. Also SINGLE way of executing programs as other users? I'm sure su, sudo, gksu, gksudo, ksu etc. all have the same call somewhere inside, but that's hardly a SINGLE program. That aside, NTFS permissions are OK. The vulnerability is, you can elevate your privileges illegally.

almafuerte wrote:On the other hand, on windows systems, there are no real permissions (windows never had real permissions, and it probably never will. Here is a link on a WORKING code to TOTALLY BYPASS user permissions on WINDOWS 7 http://www.istartedsomething.com/200906 ... erability/) That code is still working today, and the same has been true for all published windows versions.


Yes, that's the real problem. MS conceived this convoluted contraption of automatic privilege elevation, and the weird non-elevated administrator behavior... it would be far better if they just went with POSIX-like system here.

almafuerte wrote:So, the issue is NOT that there is more malware for windows than for other systems. Actually, it would be MORE profitable to exploit other systems. Think about this: over 65% of all public internet servers run on Unix. It would be way more profitable to gain access to servers than to gain access to shitty user computers. I am a Sysadmin. I have many Unix systems that are public and live, serving 24/7. You wouldn't believe my logs. I receive thousands of attack attempts daily. From SSH brute-force attacks, to attempts at SQL injection and apache-related exploits. And my servers have never been compromised, not even one.


And you're jumping to something completely different here. From local vulnerabilities, to network attacks. The same servers can easily run on windows, and the system won't be compromised. Windows IP stack is not THAT messed up :).

almafuerte wrote:It also violates your rights, your privacy, and it keeps you a slave of a huge corporation.


That's and exaggeration based probably only on your belief that you should be able to easily modify, change and maybe even redistribute their products. By that thinking so does Apple, Google, Sony, Nintendo and a multitude of other companies, I bet you never used any of their products, right?
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Re: Viruses on Unix systems?

Postby Clamburger » Wed Jan 27, 2010 8:05 am UTC

almafuerte wrote:And about being slave to a huge corporation ... you are.

I am likely being trolled but I feel it necessary to respond to your points in detail.

almafuerte wrote:You pay them shitloads of money every year.

I wasn't aware that Microsoft released a new operating system year, nor was I aware that I was obliged to purchase each one. The point you seem to be trying to make is "your operating system costs money". Lots of things cost money. Welcome to capitalism.

almafuerte wrote:You get to use the software they allow.

I am allowed to use whatever software I choose, as well as write whatever software I choose. The amount of software they "allow" me to use is 100%.

almafuerte wrote:You buy hardware that has been certified by them.

Your car was certified by somebody. Your house was certified by somebody. Does that you mean you are a slave to those respective corporations? In addition, I am not required to buy Microsoft-certified hardware. I can use whatever hardware I please, providing there are drivers for them.

almafuerte wrote:They put DRM on your system.

It is true that WGA is a type of DRM that prevents you from utilising your operating system fully if it cannot activate for whatever reason. Personally I do not see this as an issue but I see why some people have a problem with it.

almafuerte wrote:They tell you when you have to get more ram, a better processor, or when to get a whole new system.

This is outright false and shall not waste my time responding to it.

almafuerte wrote:The software you are using is not yours. You just a get a contract that says "ok, we'll let you use it, but your computer is ours. And we can terminate this contract anytime we want, and for any reason".

I would dismiss this however I have not read the EULA so I am cannot provide an informed viewpoint. Perhaps you could provide us with the relevant portion that backs up your claims?

almafuerte wrote:On Windows, the "system" user (Micro$oft) has more privileges than the Administrator user (You). There are things that the System user can do that Administrator can't, and there's no way for anyone, not even you, to login as "System". Only m$ software gets access to that level.

That's not a problem, that's just how the operating system works. It isn't Microsoft software that gets access to that level either, since I don't ever recall Microsoft Office running as the system user. The only "Microsoft software" that runs as System is the system itself,

almafuerte wrote:That sounds pretty much like slavery to me.

After analysing your points in detail, no, it sounds very much unlike slavery to me.

almafuerte wrote: Enjoy your mediocre computer.

I admit my computer is rather old (by technology standards), however I don't see what the operating system has to do with it.
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Re: Viruses on Unix systems?

Postby Max2009 » Wed Jan 27, 2010 8:12 am UTC

almafuerte wrote:So, stop the bullshit. Windows is a totally insecure platform. It also violates your rights, your privacy, and it keeps you a slave of a huge corporation.

My hero.

I suppose this qualifies as a Randall get out of my head. I'm always doing this to the poor Windows users.
Cogito ergo surf - I think therefore I network

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Re: "Retro Virus" Discussion

Postby HaudNomen » Wed Jan 27, 2010 8:32 am UTC

Dear everyone,

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Sincerely,
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