0267: "Choices: Part 4"

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Tawnos
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0267: "Choices: Part 4"

Postby Tawnos » Thu May 24, 2007 4:06 am UTC

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http://www.xkcd.com/c267.html

Title Text: Making out with yourself: now an official xkcd theme? Troubling.


Not troubling... Intriguing. If you make out with yourself, does that make you gay? Of course, I wouldn't want to be within 15 feet of myself. Hate the sound of my own voice (such as in a recording or on video). Seeing myself live... heart attack material, that.
Last edited by Tawnos on Thu May 24, 2007 4:08 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.
If determinism is right, does it matter that I believe in free will?

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Postby RunningFool » Thu May 24, 2007 4:07 am UTC

Is there a reason STRANGE is hanging there in the first panel? Is this my first post ever? I'm scared.
EDIT: fixed! and no! and more tired than scared now, I'd say.[/color]
Last edited by RunningFool on Thu May 24, 2007 11:43 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby EradicateIV » Thu May 24, 2007 4:08 am UTC

Boo for beating me to it and not adding any commentary or anything.
No alt text either *Frowny Face*. Edit: Smoothhh

I saw this making out with yourself discussed in the last comic topic... Do we have control over the comics!?!?

But really, this one really goes out to a lot of people in more ways than one. Everyone in serious professions seem too stuck up half the time?
1010011010

Our truth is only as good as our assumptions.

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Postby Chippy » Thu May 24, 2007 4:10 am UTC

Oh man. Even after reading yesterdays post and the conversation about making out with yourself I totally did NOT see that last frame coming.

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Postby TwilightWonder » Thu May 24, 2007 4:11 am UTC

I'd just like to say that I really, really liked this one. :D

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Postby The LuigiManiac » Thu May 24, 2007 4:11 am UTC

Last frame = WIN

Enough said.

EDIT: Also, I don't get the "strange" in the first panel

NOW enough said.
Spoiler:
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Postby Anmorata » Thu May 24, 2007 4:17 am UTC

Wow. The entire message of the first 2-3 panels really stings. It's been so long since I've been spontaneous... plans are safe. Safety nets are good. But they're certainly no fun.
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Postby scowdich » Thu May 24, 2007 4:18 am UTC

This is seriously getting stapled to my wall, along with the three proceeding and the one after, no matter what. I love this whole week's worth so hard.

Additionally, I love the message of this one. It really speaks to just about every one of my peers, including myself - really, it's quite similar to that of "Fuck. That. Shit." But it's nice to see it refreshed. Love it, Randall, love it. Perhaps we shall see raptors on Friday to make the XKCDitude absolutely complete?

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Postby SimonSwift » Thu May 24, 2007 4:20 am UTC

Cool! :D

I liked this one. Especially the part where they said they made out...If I was a woman, I'd totally make out with myself. I mean...If I was also a woman...Except I was still here. And it was like a clone except a woman. But it wouldn't really be a clone, because it would be completely different.

But you know what I mean.
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Postby Berge » Thu May 24, 2007 4:21 am UTC

Anmorata wrote:Wow. The entire message of the first 2-3 panels really stings. It's been so long since I've been spontaneous... plans are safe. Safety nets are good. But they're certainly no fun.


I'm with you. I'm going to do something unexpected or spontaneous tomoro-wait...

Pre-planned spontaneity doesn't count does it :x
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Postby EradicateIV » Thu May 24, 2007 4:23 am UTC

Berge wrote:Pre-planned spontaneity doesn't count does it :x


But if you start to do something spontaneously with thinking about it which you have to do for ANYTHING, does that make it truly random?

I try to do random things all the time for myself, especially on my drives to college which take an hour at a time. Fun road games with people to make them think twice and blasting music.
1010011010



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Postby Berge » Thu May 24, 2007 4:33 am UTC

I used to argue long and hard that nothing we can do is truly random, and that coin flips, die rolls and the like aren't random either. I mean, given all the data on a situation (coefficients of friction, weight, air resistance, angle thrown at, power, etc you could predict a die roll.) I also like to think that human behavior is also just the result of chemical processes and such. (In other words, just another physical system.)


In what has to be the most outmoded worldview ever, I still get the sense that the universe and everything in it as a physical system obeying a set of laws that results in everything following an immutable course. Randomness scares the hell out of me. The idea that some result can come from absolutely no input seems abhorrent.
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nosh276
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Go forth and read

Postby nosh276 » Thu May 24, 2007 4:37 am UTC

There's a thrilling science fiction short story entitled All You Zombies that tackles the concept of having relations with one's-self in a much more...extreme way.

I recommend it. It's rather well written and interesting.

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Postby space_raptor » Thu May 24, 2007 4:45 am UTC

Randall Munroe kicks so much ass it is impossible to quantify it.

The closest I can get is to say Randall Munroe kicks one Norris unit of ass.

Which is pretty much the most ass anyone can kick.

Seriously. This webcomic makes me want to be a better person.
Last edited by space_raptor on Thu May 24, 2007 4:51 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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chan the evoker
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Chan == Inspired

Postby chan the evoker » Thu May 24, 2007 4:46 am UTC

I hate inspirational material. This sequence was inspirational. I did not hate it.

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Postby The LuigiManiac » Thu May 24, 2007 4:48 am UTC

space_raptor wrote:The closet I can get is to say Randall Munroe kicks one Norris unit of ass.

Which is pretty much the most ass anyone can kick.

Seriously. This webcomic makes me want to be a better person.


I'd give it at least 1.1 Norris...s. Norrises. Norrisi. I don't know. I'd just give it 1.1 on the Norris scale, where 1 = Norris.
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Postby Toeofdoom » Thu May 24, 2007 4:52 am UTC

hahaha. So true... all of it. if you excuse me I will now be catching a bus to someplace then probably a tram and seeing a hell of alot of people from my old school. and maybe I'll have lunch on the way? hmmm... need socks actually... bye
Hawknc wrote:Gotta love our political choices here - you can pick the unionised socially conservative party, or the free-market even more socially conservative party. Oh who to vote for…I don't know, I think I'll just flip a coin and hope it explodes and kills me.

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Postby ArchangelShrike » Thu May 24, 2007 4:54 am UTC

But how many Saladin's Father can he kick?

And I thought it said in the about to not submit ideas, that it won't be used. Are the laws of physics breaking because of this, or did he simply bend the rules? Or do you have a second account to play with?! ARGH!!!

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Postby Benevolent Lion » Thu May 24, 2007 4:55 am UTC

Randall is -99.99 units of evil!(refer to Regarding Mussolini thread, and I did not want to invoke a Godwin law stupidity)
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Postby skeptical scientist » Thu May 24, 2007 4:56 am UTC

Does anyone want to point out the previous comics that included characters making out with themselves so I don't have to go hunting?
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Postby TheAutophobe » Thu May 24, 2007 5:00 am UTC

i've been to that place! the weird out-of-game experience place!
i didn't have a bubble, though, and i was smoking salvia divinorum.

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Postby GhostWolfe » Thu May 24, 2007 5:01 am UTC

Anmorata wrote:Wow. The entire message of the first 2-3 panels really stings. It's been so long since I've been spontaneous... plans are safe. Safety nets are good. But they're certainly no fun.


The line "if you see a group of people in a field..." that really hit me. I've been toying around with buying the "JUST SHY, not antisocial" shirt, but I'm too scared that I really am antisocial. :?

I would definitely make out with myself in that situation.
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Postby frezik » Thu May 24, 2007 5:04 am UTC

Berge wrote:I used to argue long and hard that nothing we can do is truly random, and that coin flips, die rolls and the like aren't random either. I mean, given all the data on a situation (coefficients of friction, weight, air resistance, angle thrown at, power, etc you could predict a die roll.) I also like to think that human behavior is also just the result of chemical processes and such. (In other words, just another physical system.)


In what has to be the most outmoded worldview ever, I still get the sense that the universe and everything in it as a physical system obeying a set of laws that results in everything following an immutable course. Randomness scares the hell out of me. The idea that some result can come from absolutely no input seems abhorrent.


You're right--it is an outmoded worldview. Einstein held on strongly to Scientific Determinism (which is more or less what you describe here), probably to his detriment. He suggested the "hidden variable" interpretation of Quantum Mechanics, because it's the only way Scientific Determinism can be reconciled with the wildly random behavior of very tiny things. After all these years, we're pretty sure that the hidden variable interpretation is wrong.

I was a bit disappointed when I found this out; randomness in the universe just seemed wrong. Then I realized that a deterministic universe has no room for free will beyond an illusion. I think I'm happier with things this way.

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Postby chan the evoker » Thu May 24, 2007 5:04 am UTC

skeptical scientist wrote:Does anyone want to point out the previous comics that included characters making out with themselves so I don't have to go hunting?


Just this one, as far as I can remember: http://xkcd.com/c105.html

That is the obvious course of action after encountering a copy of yourself, isn't it? I know it would be for me.

@frezik

I figure since it wouldn't be possible for me to predict where the universe is going even if it were deterministic, it doesn't matter whether my fate is predetermined. If you can't prove a theory right or wrong, it's not in the realm of science, and I don't give a shit. That's kind of how I feel about religion, but that's another topic.
Last edited by chan the evoker on Thu May 24, 2007 5:10 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Barbie » Thu May 24, 2007 5:07 am UTC

Wow, frames 1-2, that's exactly what I've been trying to explain to everyone I know for the last week. Proviso: the following is extremely out of character for me... After a couple days of eye-flirting (i.e. nothing verbal) with a guy at the gym, I decided the best course of action would be to just walk up to him and kiss him without saying a word. Not because it was the good choice or the bad choice; beacause it was the interesting choice.

Maybe Outside-The-Theatre-Barbie pulled me out of the game and whispered some hints in my ear.

I wonder if I made out with myself...

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Postby chan the evoker » Thu May 24, 2007 5:12 am UTC

@Barbie

A most excellent choice. If more people would follow your example the world would be a happier place. A more interesting place at least.

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Postby Berge » Thu May 24, 2007 5:31 am UTC

frezik wrote:
Berge wrote:I used to argue long and hard that nothing we can do is truly random, and that coin flips, die rolls and the like aren't random either. I mean, given all the data on a situation (coefficients of friction, weight, air resistance, angle thrown at, power, etc you could predict a die roll.) I also like to think that human behavior is also just the result of chemical processes and such. (In other words, just another physical system.)


In what has to be the most outmoded worldview ever, I still get the sense that the universe and everything in it as a physical system obeying a set of laws that results in everything following an immutable course. Randomness scares the hell out of me. The idea that some result can come from absolutely no input seems abhorrent.


You're right--it is an outmoded worldview. Einstein held on strongly to Scientific Determinism (which is more or less what you describe here), probably to his detriment. He suggested the "hidden variable" interpretation of Quantum Mechanics, because it's the only way Scientific Determinism can be reconciled with the wildly random behavior of very tiny things. After all these years, we're pretty sure that the hidden variable interpretation is wrong.

I was a bit disappointed when I found this out; randomness in the universe just seemed wrong. Then I realized that a deterministic universe has no room for free will beyond an illusion. I think I'm happier with things this way.


I've known for a while that I'm wrong, but the way things actually work really doesn't sit well with me. Which is of course a terrible reason for sticking with the old view, but I'm having a really hard time moving past it.

Regarding free will, to paraphrase a section of Waking Life "Does it really make sense that free will comes from the randomness of these tiny particles?"

...We should probably take this somewhere else though, before someone gets a Supersoaker
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Postby airtank » Thu May 24, 2007 5:48 am UTC

Anmorata wrote:Wow. The entire message of the first 2-3 panels really stings...


It may sting to you, but it sings to me: Lately, I've been unreasonably and inexplicably spontaneous, and I haven't felt poorly about a bit of it.

EradicateIV wrote:Do we have control over the comics!?!?


I was wondering about this as well.
Last edited by airtank on Thu May 24, 2007 6:01 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Rat » Thu May 24, 2007 5:55 am UTC

i dunno.. good things never really come of groups of people in fields... its always like... somebody getting whacked or some shit eating orgy or people picking shrooms and i dunno they might get defensive

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Postby airtank » Thu May 24, 2007 6:02 am UTC

Rat wrote:i dunno.. good things never really come of groups of people in fields... its always like... somebody getting whacked or some shit eating orgy or people picking shrooms and i dunno they might get defensive


Or zombies, a la 28 Weeks Later. @_@
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Postby Berge » Thu May 24, 2007 6:07 am UTC

Rat wrote:i dunno.. good things never really come of groups of people in fields... its always like... somebody getting whacked or some shit eating orgy or people picking shrooms and i dunno they might get defensive


Or they're making a crop circle! As a prank for their physics teacher because they know crop circles are his pet peeve and that he drives by this particular field every morning....

Good times.
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Postby Gelsamel » Thu May 24, 2007 6:08 am UTC

w00t
"Give up here?"
- > No
"Do you accept defeat?"
- > No
"Do you think games are silly little things?"
- > No
"Is it all pointless?"
- > No
"Do you admit there is no meaning to this world?"
- > No

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Postby mrsaturn » Thu May 24, 2007 6:15 am UTC

This is amazing.
I wish i had more people tell me hints like this earlier in my life.
I got shivers up my body reading this.

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Postby etho » Thu May 24, 2007 6:18 am UTC

It frightens me how much this particular storyline reflects my own life. Perhaps I should take those hints.

Also, I should probably spend more time making out with myself.

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Postby Phob0s » Thu May 24, 2007 6:19 am UTC

hahaha, ironically, just today I went to starbucks with my best friend like we do almost everyday, but at one point we just stood up, walked out, and found a field and walked around in it. That was fun.
As to the lack of spontaneity and randomness in our world... even if a truly random act cannot exist, it's still better to break from whatever mold you sit in.

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Postby scowdich » Thu May 24, 2007 6:21 am UTC

There's only one random-ish thing from this that I do..."open unmarked doors."

I make a habit of exploring buildings on campus. I've discovered tunnels under streets connecting 3 (and possibly more) buildings together. Best setting for a horror movie ever, in my humble opinion. That is, other than the grid and catwalks above my high school's stage.

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Postby skeptical scientist » Thu May 24, 2007 6:21 am UTC

Berge wrote:
Rat wrote:i dunno.. good things never really come of groups of people in fields... its always like... somebody getting whacked or some shit eating orgy or people picking shrooms and i dunno they might get defensive


Or they're making a crop circle! As a prank for their physics teacher because they know crop circles are his pet peeve and that he drives by this particular field every morning....

Good times.

Is there more of a story to this?
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Postby Spaz Funbag » Thu May 24, 2007 6:31 am UTC

that i s a pretty cool comic, and it definitely took an "unexpected" turn. Love the last panel ;)

Odd it still is, indeed.

Now I am especially curious about what she will do? Maybe Homework boy is the "cute geek next door" she has never asked out before.


And the question remains: which was first? The last panel's idea, or the previous' comic's discussion? ;)
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Postby John DeSavage » Thu May 24, 2007 6:41 am UTC

frezik wrote:
Berge wrote:I used to argue long and hard that nothing we can do is truly random, and that coin flips, die rolls and the like aren't random either. I mean, given all the data on a situation (coefficients of friction, weight, air resistance, angle thrown at, power, etc you could predict a die roll.) I also like to think that human behavior is also just the result of chemical processes and such. (In other words, just another physical system.)


In what has to be the most outmoded worldview ever, I still get the sense that the universe and everything in it as a physical system obeying a set of laws that results in everything following an immutable course. Randomness scares the hell out of me. The idea that some result can come from absolutely no input seems abhorrent.


You're right--it is an outmoded worldview. Einstein held on strongly to Scientific Determinism (which is more or less what you describe here), probably to his detriment. He suggested the "hidden variable" interpretation of Quantum Mechanics, because it's the only way Scientific Determinism can be reconciled with the wildly random behavior of very tiny things. After all these years, we're pretty sure that the hidden variable interpretation is wrong.

I was a bit disappointed when I found this out; randomness in the universe just seemed wrong. Then I realized that a deterministic universe has no room for free will beyond an illusion. I think I'm happier with things this way.


Aha! But if events are either deterministic or random, then how can you claim to have free will?

If everything is deterministic, then the choices you make have been pre-determined by earlier, external events.

If everything is random, then your "choices" are randomly determined as well, and you cannot claim to have chosen them out of free will. Nor will they have any appreciable effect on the worl^H^H^H^H universe.

If events are either deterministic or random, then either your choices were pre-determined, which means you have no control over them, or randomly affected, which means you have no control over them.

You're better off trying to redefine what "free will" means.
Or ranting about how free will is illusionary.

(I prefer the latter.)

Or subverting duality.

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Postby John DeSavage » Thu May 24, 2007 6:44 am UTC

Also, this strip reminds me heavily of the first track of Saul Williams' second album. For obvious reasons.

(It's good, go check it out...)


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