0182: "Nash"

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0182: "Nash"

Postby tylerni7 » Fri Nov 10, 2006 7:03 am UTC

Wouldn't it be a stable equilibrium though?
If we look at it as a matrix:

Hot Ugly
Hot .5,.5 1,0
Ugly 1,0 1,1

They are guaranteed not to lose anything if they go for the ugly girl. If they consider switching, the same problem still arises. If they both try to switch, not only will their chances be minimized because they were already hitting on the girl's ugly friends, but if they both decide to switch and come on too strong, they again come up with nothing.

Are you saying it isn't stable because they might be able to get the hot girl, or because the ugly girls might reject them also?

Either way, it shows why I'm not very good at thinking about relationships...

(*Edit: Sorry I left out the 'Discussion' in the title...)

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no-genius
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Postby no-genius » Fri Nov 10, 2006 7:10 am UTC

Dammit Feynman


It's an unstable equilibrium because there's no restoring force?
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The Mighty Thesaurus wrote:Why? It does nothing to address dance music's core problem: the fact that it sucks.

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Postby DigitalMeatball » Fri Nov 10, 2006 7:57 am UTC

I'm definitely not contributing to getting over Feynman. I'm a huge fan.
"Physics is like sex. Sure, it may give some practical results, but that's not why we do it." -Feynman

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Postby frymaster » Fri Nov 10, 2006 9:22 am UTC

</lurk>
surely the disincentive to switch is that if you fail you're likely to break up with the plain woman and earn yourself a slap in the process?

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Postby Sonic# » Fri Nov 10, 2006 1:42 pm UTC

I interpreted it as not being stable.

Assume the starting point (two less-desirable girls) is the equilibrium.

Now, if it's stable, as time goes on, the guys will always stay a certain distance (emotional, interested, etc.) from the equilibrium point. However, this is not so, as at least one solution path is not bounded as such, and will always pursue the hot girl. And even if this action doesn't result in instability, the group being driven off by the action would.

Of course, the whole situation wouldn't be stable anyway for the reasons listed above. ^^;;;

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Postby athelas » Fri Nov 10, 2006 1:43 pm UTC


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Postby TheTankengine » Fri Nov 10, 2006 2:12 pm UTC

This is one of those threads that, while not completely over my head (I could very well take the time to research these things along with the necessary maths), is definitely oustide my box.

Maybe I need more coffee? Maybe I need to get more than 5 hours of sleep before getting to work @ 7? Maybe I shouldn't have had those 10 beers last night? :wink:

Alas, I am confuzzled.

EDIT:Increased total italicization value of my post.
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Postby tylerni7 » Fri Nov 10, 2006 4:48 pm UTC

I don't think that they could change their decision after they make it. If they go for the ugly friend and then for the hot girl, the hot girl will just reject them for taking advantage of the friend. If that were the case (which it may or may not be...), would that make it stable?

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Postby strangequarks » Fri Nov 10, 2006 5:15 pm UTC

So all of you would have lost the girls to Feynmann as well, just cos you were busy discussing strategy?

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Postby AwesomesauceOnCeilingfish » Fri Nov 10, 2006 5:43 pm UTC

Isn't this always what you smart-boy types do? Sit around and over analyze while the idiot meathead actualy makes a move and takes the girl home. For the sake of all of us nerd-girls: Grow a set, kthxbai.
whatwhat

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Postby tylerni7 » Fri Nov 10, 2006 5:56 pm UTC

I would argue that that isn't what we all do... but then I'd be lying.

Damn, why can't I be more like Richard Feynman....

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Postby Fuzz18500 » Fri Nov 10, 2006 6:45 pm UTC

Assuming that if both go for the hot girl, they will both fail, that there is more than one ugly girl, and that the hot girl is worth double the utility of an ugly girl (the amount doesn't matter as long as it's higher), the matrix would look like this:
------------------1------------
---------|-Hot----|---Ugly---|
----Hot-|(0,0)---|--(1,.5)---|
-2-------|--------|-----------|
----Ugly|(.5,1)--|--(.5,.5)--|

The Nash equlibria for this matrix are (Hot, Ugly) and (Ugly, Hot). This is because at either of these sets, no move by either player will result in a better result for himself. If the guy with the hot girl goes for an ugly girl, he decreases his utility by .5. If the guy with an ugly girl goes for the hot girl, he also decreases his utility by .5. In the case of both guys going for the hot girl, either one changing to the ugly girl increases his own utility by .5. The same is the case for both going after an ugly girl, and one changing to the hot girl.

This result seems counter-intuitive, but that is how Nash equilibrium works. This is similar to the prisoner's dilemma, except the equivalent of the (hot, hot) set, (fink, fink), is better for one player and worse for the other than the (hot, ugly) or (ugly, hot) equivalents, (mum, fink) and (fink,mum), while (hot, ugly) and (ugly, hot) are better for both players than (hot, hot). There was probably an easier way to say that. I'm sorry.

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Postby rs180216 » Fri Nov 10, 2006 6:45 pm UTC

interesting side note
Nash lives like 5min from me, and I hang out with his son a bit at a local pizza parlor.
Gotta love Jersey :)

also, can someone explain to me what this comic is saying, because I feel that my education has failed me.

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Postby wisnij » Fri Nov 10, 2006 7:35 pm UTC

rs180216 wrote:also, can someone explain to me what this comic is saying, because I feel that my education has failed me.

It's saying that Feynman was a player.
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strangequarks
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Postby strangequarks » Fri Nov 10, 2006 8:45 pm UTC

Yup, education never mentions that fact, ey?

Also, speaking as gay nerd girl: just go talk to her. It's not that hard really.

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Postby no-genius » Fri Nov 10, 2006 8:51 pm UTC

i'm a lesbian trapped in the body of an ugly man. and now i can't go back :(
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The Mighty Thesaurus wrote:Why? It does nothing to address dance music's core problem: the fact that it sucks.

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Postby rachel » Fri Nov 10, 2006 9:02 pm UTC

Sometimes these comics really make me wish I did better in science and math in school.

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Postby rs180216 » Fri Nov 10, 2006 9:21 pm UTC

i knew Feynman was a player (Adventures of a Curious Character), but I have no idea what this equlibrium bit is about.

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Postby kakos » Fri Nov 10, 2006 9:28 pm UTC

no-genius wrote:i'm a lesbian trapped in the body of an ugly man. and now i can't go back :(


I'm a lesbian trapped in the body of an ugly man too! We should totally hook up.

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Postby LordRetard » Fri Nov 10, 2006 9:33 pm UTC

I thought the point was that if they all went for the hot chick, none of 'em would have a chance, but if some of them compromise and go for the ugly chicks, all of 'em get laid, even if it's with super-ugly chicks. John Nash didn't have a hell of a lot of standards, as I understand.

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Postby kakos » Fri Nov 10, 2006 9:41 pm UTC

LordRetard wrote:I thought the point was that if they all went for the hot chick, none of 'em would have a chance, but if some of them compromise and go for the ugly chicks, all of 'em get laid, even if it's with super-ugly chicks. John Nash didn't have a hell of a lot of standards, as I understand.


Well, there's a lot of indication that Nash was gay, so I'm sure he doesn't care if he's with a hot girl or an ugly girl, considering he might not be attracted to either of them.

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Postby PchHtr23 » Fri Nov 10, 2006 9:52 pm UTC

It is way more than a silly childish crush. Feynman and I are in love and you just can't stand to see me happy.

Sincerely, Science

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Postby no-genius » Fri Nov 10, 2006 10:58 pm UTC

PchHtr23 wrote:It is way more than a silly childish crush. Feynman and I are in love and you just can't stand to see me happy.

Sincerely, Science


Are you the guy who pretends to be the internet?
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The Mighty Thesaurus wrote:Why? It does nothing to address dance music's core problem: the fact that it sucks.

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Postby athelas » Sat Nov 11, 2006 12:34 am UTC

You mean blagoblag, right?

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Postby no-genius » Sat Nov 11, 2006 1:05 am UTC

blagosphore?
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The Mighty Thesaurus wrote:Why? It does nothing to address dance music's core problem: the fact that it sucks.

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Postby Bluebottle » Sat Nov 11, 2006 10:15 am UTC

I really don't believe Nash equilibria 100%. I mean the ultimatum game is the first stop for "Why should we buy this?" and then of course it genuinely gets overshadowed by Perfect Baynesian Equilibria.

Eh. I've just finished a course on Game Theory for Microeconomics. And it was all very interesting, but (and perhaps this is just the curse of economics coming into play) so very very distant from the real world.

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Postby Hides-His-Eyes » Sat Nov 11, 2006 11:46 am UTC

:lol: Feynman ges ALL the ladies


In his book he tells the tory of the time he used "If I buy you drinks all night, will you sleep with me?" as a pickup line

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Postby no-genius » Sat Nov 11, 2006 1:39 pm UTC

Hides-His-Eyes wrote:Fenynman used "If I buy you drinks all night, will you sleep with me?" as a pickup line


Damn you Feynman!
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The Mighty Thesaurus wrote:Why? It does nothing to address dance music's core problem: the fact that it sucks.

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Postby rachel » Sat Nov 11, 2006 1:56 pm UTC

Hides-His-Eyes wrote::lol: Feynman ges ALL the ladies


In his book he tells the tory of the time he used "If I buy you drinks all night, will you sleep with me?" as a pickup line


Did that work? Did he get some? I need to know!

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Postby Minerva » Sat Nov 11, 2006 3:22 pm UTC

This is now one of my all-time favourites, along with the sandwich one, Science and Angular Momentum

In my capacity as a scientist, i think the crush certainly remains alive and well :D

I'll leave you all with the above-referenced anecdote from Surely you're joking....

We went into the bar, and before I sat down, I said, "Listen, before I buy you a drink, I want to know one thing: Will you sleep with me tonight?"
"Yes."
So it worked even with an ordinary girl! But no matter how effective the lesson was, I never really used it after that. I didn't enjoy doing it that way. But it was interesting to know that things worked much differently from how I was brought up.


PS: Yes, i'm a huge, huge fan of the comic. Thanks!

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Postby starvingartist » Sat Nov 11, 2006 11:07 pm UTC

kakos wrote:
no-genius wrote:i'm a lesbian trapped in the body of an ugly man. and now i can't go back :(


I'm a lesbian trapped in the body of an ugly man too! We should totally hook up.


hey, i'm a lesbian trapped in the body of... uh, well a lesbian. hmm. does that balance anything out?

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Postby yy2bggggs » Sat Nov 11, 2006 11:54 pm UTC

starvingartist wrote:hey, i'm a lesbian trapped in the body of... uh, well a lesbian. hmm. does that balance anything out?

Yeah, but are you underage?

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Postby Verysillyman » Sun Nov 12, 2006 2:13 am UTC

I'm a lesbian trapped in a gay man's body. It's very confusing.

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no-genius
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Postby no-genius » Sun Nov 12, 2006 2:49 am UTC

starvingartist wrote:
kakos wrote:
no-genius wrote:i'm a lesbian trapped in the body of an ugly man. and now i can't go back :(


I'm a lesbian trapped in the body of an ugly man too! We should totally hook up.


hey, i'm a lesbian trapped in the body of... uh, well a lesbian. hmm. does that balance anything out?


this depends entirely on if there are pix

edit: only jokin. can you think of me as a friend o' lesbians?
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The Mighty Thesaurus wrote:Why? It does nothing to address dance music's core problem: the fact that it sucks.

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Postby starvingartist » Sun Nov 12, 2006 3:37 am UTC

yy2bggggs wrote:
starvingartist wrote:hey, i'm a lesbian trapped in the body of... uh, well a lesbian. hmm. does that balance anything out?

Yeah, but are you underage?


ha ha, yeah, i'm 13. come over to my house and meet chris hansen from dateline nbc. i mean... :P

actually i'm not underage. but a better question is, are you a dude?

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Postby AwesomesauceOnCeilingfish » Sun Nov 12, 2006 4:30 am UTC

Oh me yarm a/s/l pixx plz
whatwhat

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Postby yy2bggggs » Sun Nov 12, 2006 5:38 am UTC

starvingartist wrote:actually i'm not underage. but a better question is, are you a dude?

Yes, I'm one of those guy thingies.

I take it you're not one of those lesbians that emails mp3's to random guys asking them for dates, right? (Those chicks are annoying)

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Postby starvingartist » Sun Nov 12, 2006 3:04 pm UTC

yy2bggggs wrote:I take it you're not one of those lesbians that emails mp3's to random guys asking them for dates, right? (Those chicks are annoying)


what kind of messed up lesbians are those? ha ha. shouldn't they be randomly emailing other lesbians and asking them on dates? so to answer your question, no i am not. and what's with the lesbian obsession? i think guys should obsess over bisexual women, because there's actually a plausible chance they can get with them... and their bisexual girlfriends :lol:

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Postby LE4dGOLEM » Sun Nov 12, 2006 6:33 pm UTC

starvingartist wrote:
yy2bggggs wrote:I take it you're not one of those lesbians that emails mp3's to random guys asking them for dates, right? (Those chicks are annoying)


what kind of messed up lesbians are those? ha ha. shouldn't they be randomly emailing other lesbians and asking them on dates? so to answer your question, no i am not. and what's with the lesbian obsession? i think guys should obsess over bisexual women, because there's actually a plausible chance they can get with them... and their bisexual girlfriends :lol:


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Postby rs180216 » Sun Nov 12, 2006 8:49 pm UTC

i like bisexual chicks


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