0739: "Malamanteau"

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0739: "Malamanteau"

Postby LucasBrown » Wed May 12, 2010 3:52 am UTC

See below for 'how it's done' when posting new threads ~~Felstaff

To the mod who cleared this post and replaced it with the red stuff: how is the following (which happens to be the post's original contents) not "how it's done"?

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Title-text: "The article has twenty-three citations, one of which is an obscure manuscript from the 1490's and the other twenty-two are arguments on LanguageLog."

Page existence war on Wikipedia in 3... 2... 1...
Last edited by LucasBrown on Wed Jun 09, 2010 11:37 pm UTC, edited 3 times in total.

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"Malamanteau" Discussion

Postby Megaryuu » Wed May 12, 2010 3:53 am UTC

Image

Title-text: The article has twenty-three citations, one of which is an obscure manuscript from the 1490's and the other twenty-two are arguments on LanguageLog.

Wow. I love Wikipedia.

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"Malamanteau" discussion

Postby MehPlusRawr » Wed May 12, 2010 3:53 am UTC

Edited, Merged. ~~Felstaff

I need to find a way to work this word into conversation. :D

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Re: "Malamanteau" discussion

Postby glasnt » Wed May 12, 2010 3:57 am UTC

I declare thee the winner.

HI JOEE.

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Re: "Malamanteau" discussion

Postby Megaryuu » Wed May 12, 2010 3:58 am UTC

Yeah... I would have won if he hadn't made an empty thread to edit into... Btw you're missing the link.

And I'm surprised this isn't a real Wikipedia article!

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Re: "Malamanteau" discussion

Postby LucasBrown » Wed May 12, 2010 3:58 am UTC

Thanks!

Now I feel like I can comment on it...

The alt-text has a typo--it shoudl be "1490s" instead of "1490's." But who cares... it's just an apostrophe in a non-serious entity.

Edit: ninja'd. Replying to response #3.
Last edited by LucasBrown on Mon Jun 07, 2010 6:24 am UTC, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: "Malamanteau" discussion

Postby Sparrow15 » Wed May 12, 2010 3:58 am UTC

http://ask.metafilter.com/67192/How-to- ... ge-mistake
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Re: "Malamanteau" discussion

Postby natey » Wed May 12, 2010 4:00 am UTC

Quick! Flood wikipedia with references to xkcd referencing wikipedia!

I know it's not the first time it's happened but I have that on the brain because of the last thread.
I guess this counts as a randall get out of my head moment?

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Re: "Malamanteau" discussion

Postby glasnt » Wed May 12, 2010 4:01 am UTC

LucasBrown wrote:Thanks!

Now I feel like I can comment on it...

The alt-text has a typo--it shoudl be "1940s" instead of "1940's." But who cares... it's just an apostrophe in a non-serious entity.

Edit: ninja'd. Replying to response #1.

*1490s

edit: Oh me yarm, ludwig_van is from flight of the Concords o_O
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Last edited by glasnt on Wed May 12, 2010 4:12 am UTC, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: "Malamanteau" discussion

Postby Kromix » Wed May 12, 2010 4:02 am UTC

:( it got deleted

Spoiler:
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Last edited by Kromix on Wed May 12, 2010 4:04 am UTC, edited 2 times in total.
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Spoiler:
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Re: "Malamanteau" discussion

Postby Coquelicot » Wed May 12, 2010 4:03 am UTC

I wanted that to be a real Wikipedia entry really badly. Shockingly enough, it wasn't.

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Re: "Malamanteau" discussion

Postby CAGE » Wed May 12, 2010 4:06 am UTC

Coquelicot wrote:I wanted that to be a real Wikipedia entry really badly. Shockingly enough, it wasn't.


It was, briefly. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malamanteau

But it was deleted about 5 minutes ago :(

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Re: "Malamanteau" discussion

Postby Omegaton » Wed May 12, 2010 4:08 am UTC

I wonder how many hits this article is going to get, haha.

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ysth
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Re: "Malamanteau" discussion

Postby ysth » Wed May 12, 2010 4:09 am UTC

Twice:

# 04:12, 12 May 2010 UtherSRG (talk | contribs) deleted "Malamanteau" ‎
# 04:08, 12 May 2010 UtherSRG (talk | contribs) deleted "Malamanteau"

so far.
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Re: "Malamanteau" discussion

Postby SocialSceneRepairman » Wed May 12, 2010 4:10 am UTC

Okay, I'm going to go make some posts in the General Discussion forum at some point so that I don't turn into one of the anticuddlefish, but I hate this update. It's the single worst I've ever seen. If the article existed, it would be mildly unfunny, but as it is, it strikes me as an invitation to vandalism, which occurred, with a stub on "malaporteau" (a neologism I've never heard) that I would have deleted myself if someone hadn't beaten me to it while I was looking up protocol. Randall made up an "it would be funny if..." that really wasn't funny at all, and it had (very, very mild) real-world consequences. Neither the main joke nor the alt-text gives a laugh. It might be that I'm tipsy and stressed, and maybe the term's been seen before in places I've not been, but I see no redeeming value in this comic.

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Re: "Malamanteau" discussion

Postby SocialSceneRepairman » Wed May 12, 2010 4:14 am UTC

...holy crap, the real joke just occurred to me. Wiki + encyclopedia... dammit. I'm an idiot.

...well, the alt-text was stupid. Ish, maybe.

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Re: "Malamanteau" discussion

Postby Peristarkawan » Wed May 12, 2010 4:16 am UTC

SocialSceneRepairman wrote:...holy crap, the real joke just occurred to me. Wiki + encyclopedia... dammit. I'm an idiot.


I still don't get it. Where is the malapropism in "Wikipedia"?

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Re: "Malamanteau" discussion

Postby compro01 » Wed May 12, 2010 4:17 am UTC

Kromix wrote::( it got deleted

Spoiler:
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what? it was not made up in school. it was made up on xkcd!

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Re: "Malamanteau" discussion

Postby reyortdor » Wed May 12, 2010 4:19 am UTC

SocialSceneRepairman wrote:Okay, I'm going to go make some posts in the General Discussion forum at some point so that I don't turn into one of the anticuddlefish, but I hate this update. It's the single worst I've ever seen. If the article existed, it would be mildly unfunny, but as it is, it strikes me as an invitation to vandalism, which occurred, with a stub on "malaporteau" (a neologism I've never heard) that I would have deleted myself if someone hadn't beaten me to it while I was looking up protocol. Randall made up an "it would be funny if..." that really wasn't funny at all, and it had (very, very mild) real-world consequences. Neither the main joke nor the alt-text gives a laugh. It might be that I'm tipsy and stressed, and maybe the term's been seen before in places I've not been, but I see no redeeming value in this comic.

I don't know if I "hate" this one, but I agree there's little humor here.

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Re: "Malamanteau" discussion

Postby eviloatmeal » Wed May 12, 2010 4:19 am UTC

Title text: "The article has 23 citations, one of which is an obscure manuscript from the 1490's and the other twenty-two are publications by one Dr. B.H. Guye. He must be a person of prominence in the fields of etymology and morphology!"
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Re: "Malamanteau" discussion

Postby DrJamesH » Wed May 12, 2010 4:27 am UTC

The wikipedia entry was deleted (it was a stub, but I hope others would add the citations), then redirected to xkcd, restored, deleted, and now seems to be developing into an edit war.

The dictionary entry at http://en.wiktionary.org/w/index.php?title=malamanteau was a bit slower to be deleted, but it is also under contention.

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Re: "Malamanteau" discussion

Postby DrJamesH » Wed May 12, 2010 4:32 am UTC

I just looked at the criteria for speedy deletion, and it seems that this is being misused:

Non-criteria
The following are not by themselves sufficient to justify speedy deletion.
. . .
4. Neologisms. New specialized terms should have a wider hearing.
. . .

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Re: "Malamanteau" discussion

Postby sourmìlk » Wed May 12, 2010 4:34 am UTC

I think the actual joke is that the word "malamanteau" is itself a malamanteau.

The word is recursive
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Re: "Malamanteau" discussion

Postby tetsujin » Wed May 12, 2010 4:38 am UTC

I once wrote up an article in Uncyclopedia about "Port Manteau", a town in Louisiana with a suspicious similarity to New Orleans, a few accidents of history that kept it forever out of the center of attention, and its one widely recognized contribution to the rest of the world (I think you can guess where that bit is going...)

It got deleted because, apparently, it wasn't funny. Maybe just sour grapes here but I thought it was good.

Haven't really gone deep enough into Wikipedia to pick up on neologism and malapropism... "Portmanteau" I definitely not only noticed but actually learned from Wikipedia. But, you know, while I can see the point here, that maybe sometimes people are using these words just to sound more intelligent - I also feel strongly that when there's a word that perfectly describes your idea, you should take advantage of it. I believe in the virtues of an extensive vocabulary.


And as for the actual "Malamanteau" article on Wikipedia being deleted - good. It never should have been posted on there in the first place.
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Re: "Malamanteau" discussion

Postby unpredictable » Wed May 12, 2010 4:39 am UTC

Did anyone notice, Randall's Wikipedia globe is much more incomplete than the actual one. :)

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Re: "Malamanteau" discussion

Postby Peristarkawan » Wed May 12, 2010 4:54 am UTC

sourmìlk wrote:I think the actual joke is that the word "malamanteau" is itself a malamanteau.

How do you figure? "Malamanteau" is a neologism and a portmanteau, sure, but neither "malapropism" nor "portmanteau" is either a malapropism or a neologism.

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Re: "Malamanteau" discussion

Postby SocialSceneRepairman » Wed May 12, 2010 4:59 am UTC

sourmìlk wrote:I think the actual joke is that the word "malamanteau" is itself a malamanteau.


No, the actual joke is that "Wikipedia," although no one remembers due to its prominence, was originally a neologism made of a portmanteau of "wiki," a general term for websites that could be edited without review by a relatively large group of people (like a class, or a company, or, in this case, the planet), and "encyclopedia," a compendium of information (and if you didn't already know that, I weep for you), yet it bans neologisms, many of which are portmanteaux.

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Re: "Malamanteau" discussion

Postby BlueNight » Wed May 12, 2010 5:05 am UTC

It cannot be argued that malamanteau is indeed both a neologism and a portmanteau. However, we're going about the creation of an article in exactly the wrong way. First, we start using the word properly, in context, in mixed company, and in scholarly works. Then, we continue doing so for three or more years. Finally, when it appears in an Associated Press article, we create the Wikipedia article. At that point, malamanteau will have become a word we've historically added to the language just for the purpose of making it a new word.

I hereby dub such a word a "backrogism" - a neologism I have just coined which is a portmanteau adapting parts of backronym and neologism.

Wait a minute...

"-gism" sounds like a dirty word, and when combined with either "backro-" or "bacro-" (as bacronym is also an acceptable spelling) suggests something unspeakably filthy to an English speaker, similar in repugnance to that other neologism, backne (acne on the back). Thus "backrogism" (or "bacrogism") is a portmanteau of a malapropism ("-gism") and a neologism ("backro-" or "bacro-").

And now I find myself pondering the structure of "backrogism". Since "logism" (relating to a word) is the root of neologism, and the "-ro-" of "backrogism" is actually from "acronym" and does not refer at all to "back-", I have constructed the word incorrectly. "backlogism" should be the word describing a nonsense word that is retconned into being real, not "backrogism."

Holy red spiders! I've created a malamanteau!
Last edited by BlueNight on Wed May 12, 2010 5:21 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: "Malamanteau" discussion

Postby PersonalRobotJesus » Wed May 12, 2010 5:11 am UTC


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Re: "Malamanteau" discussion

Postby squareroot » Wed May 12, 2010 5:13 am UTC

HUZZAH!

It's been created/deleted thrice now.

We must all go and appeal to wikipedia. We'll get enough people to get the article created, they can't outvote us. Go vote on the discussion page.
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Re: "Malamanteau" discussion

Postby szarka » Wed May 12, 2010 5:23 am UTC

IMHO, you can't blame xkcd for someone mistakenly (or purposefully, for that matter) creating an article. It should have been obvious that it was a joke, since the word "malapropism" didn't exist in the 1490s...

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Re: "Malamanteau" discussion

Postby scalziand » Wed May 12, 2010 5:24 am UTC

tetsujin wrote:I once wrote up an article in Uncyclopedia about "Port Manteau", a town in Louisiana with a suspicious similarity to New Orleans, a few accidents of history that kept it forever out of the center of attention, and its one widely recognized contribution to the rest of the world (I think you can guess where that bit is going...)

It got deleted because, apparently, it wasn't funny. Maybe just sour grapes here but I thought it was good.

Haven't really gone deep enough into Wikipedia to pick up on neologism and malapropism... "Portmanteau" I definitely not only noticed but actually learned from Wikipedia. But, you know, while I can see the point here, that maybe sometimes people are using these words just to sound more intelligent - I also feel strongly that when there's a word that perfectly describes your idea, you should take advantage of it. I believe in the virtues of an extensive vocabulary.


I suppose now is as good a time as any to mention http://portmanteaur.com/ something one of my friends made for creating portmanteaus.

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Re: "Malamanteau" discussion

Postby szarka » Wed May 12, 2010 5:24 am UTC

BTW, Wikipedia did score a win vs. the OED recently: http://www.newscientist.com/blogs/short ... sipho.html

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Re: "Malamanteau" discussion

Postby Franz » Wed May 12, 2010 5:49 am UTC

Regarding the alt-text:
this is why i me and my friend would play wikipedia races. What you do is select a topic, say... The history of the american flag. you both go to the homepage, press the random button and press navigate through links to get to the american flag article. I got the idea from: http://xkcd.com/214/

What can i say? bored in computer science class... compiling

I'm fairly sure every page in wikipedia is linked to one-another somehow

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Re: "Malamanteau" discussion

Postby squareroot » Wed May 12, 2010 6:07 am UTC

scalziand wrote:I suppose now is as good a time as any to mention http://portmanteaur.com/ something one of my friends made for creating portmanteaus.


That's pretty fun. Some good ones I got - which had nothing to do with what sounded like - were "paradoxicorpism", which sounds like a nonsensical body but is actually an analytic function that doesn't make sense, "papergeometric", which sounds like origami but is actually a quickly growing function which doesn't make any sense, and "mononuntum", which is a quantum disease spread by kissing.

Also, I just noticed that the word "portmanteau" is used on the xkcd article. How wonderful!
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Re: "Malamanteau" discussion

Postby darkspork » Wed May 12, 2010 6:08 am UTC

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Malamanteau
My cheese burns at the flamewar going on over there.

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Re: "Malamanteau" discussion

Postby VHBT » Wed May 12, 2010 6:20 am UTC

Franz wrote:I'm fairly sure every page in wikipedia is linked to one-another somehow.

Nope. Most of the major pages probably are, though.

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Re: "Malamanteau" discussion

Postby Majicou » Wed May 12, 2010 6:35 am UTC

I feel fairly certain that the actual joke, which is admittedly not one of his strongest ever, is that if you read Wikipedia a lot, you'll find the words "portmanteau" and "neologism" crop up many, many times.

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Re: "Malamanteau" discussion

Postby Kalos » Wed May 12, 2010 6:40 am UTC

Majicou wrote:I feel fairly certain that the actual joke, which is admittedly not one of his strongest ever, is that if you read Wikipedia a lot, you'll find the words "portmanteau" and "neologism" crop up many, many times.

Ding ding ding. We have the first person who wasn't such a mouth-breather that they read the caption at the bottom of the comic that states exactly what the joke is. The rest of you need to seek out the nearest suicide booth.


Also:
Instances of "malapropism" on Wikipedia: 225
Instances of "neologism" on Wikipedia: 1,403
Instances of "portmanteau" on Wikipedia: 2,023

This is out of a total of 3,290,074 articles.



And stop vandalizing Wikipedia, cunts.

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Re: "Malamanteau" discussion

Postby Red Hal » Wed May 12, 2010 6:49 am UTC

And thus, like the urchins scribbling 'quiz' on the walls and houses of late 18th Century Dublin, the hordes of xkcd fans descend upon the streets of wikipedia to spread the word. A comparison made even more apt as neither is true.

I quite liked the comic, and the thought of a word that describes poorly formed or thought-out portmanteaux does appeal to me.
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