0739: "Malamanteau"

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Nentuaby
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Re: "Malamanteau" discussion

Postby Nentuaby » Thu May 13, 2010 3:38 am UTC

Oh, every wiki has a few examples of egregious word overuse.

Pesh
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Re: "Malamanteau" discussion

Postby Pesh » Thu May 13, 2010 3:44 am UTC

Postby tastelikecoke » Wed May 12, 2010 3:02 pm UTC
Wikipedia does fail a bit, but that's where Simple Wikipedia goes to the rescue. Obviously a super special advanced topic like Deconstruction will be incomprehensible. Wikipedia doesn't regard your knowledge curve, more like writing the facts.


Try reading the pages on Kabbalah. Although, now that I've started reading actual BOOKS on Kabbalah, there's really no difference. (The Kabbalah books use the word "ontological" too often.) Sadly, there is no simple-wiki page on Kabbalah yet. That would rock.

picks up his copy of Kabbalah for Dummies again

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Moz
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Re: "Malamanteau" discussion

Postby Moz » Thu May 13, 2010 4:01 am UTC

Dammit. Every time xkcd mentions something related to Wikipedia, somebody has to rush over there and edit it. Then their edit gets removed, and people complain about censorship, how Wikipedia isn't really the free encyclopedia that anyone can edit, how admins are corrupt, and how Wikipedia's idea of notability is stupid. Every time.

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Outchanter
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Re: "Malamanteau" discussion

Postby Outchanter » Thu May 13, 2010 4:31 am UTC

Red Hal wrote:
RabbitWho wrote:Malamanamamantaeu.
Do Dooo be do do.
Image

I tried and failed to make the syllables fit the song :|

solacelost wrote:Somehow this comic led me to Wikipedia, which lead to me looking at a lot of useless shit, which led to me downloading a PDF copy of the Principia Discordia.

What the fuck?

There's little point in reading the Principia Discordia if you're already confused; that's like preaching to the choir!
~ You will eat a tasty fortune cookie. Oh look, it came true already! ~

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faunablues
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Re: "Malamanteau" discussion

Postby faunablues » Thu May 13, 2010 5:40 am UTC

sometimes i think the reason why certain wiki articles are completely unclear and overly complicated is because the author/s does not actually know the subject... just read about it on the reference, and attempted to paraphrase in a wiki-style.

e.g.:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mediastinum

ok, so even in my anatomy books there isn't a great definition. but still, it's a "group of structures"? What structures? And if it's "surrounded by connective tissue", then what's the structure that comprises the mediastinum? All that's left is space if you leave the connective tissue out.

most of the time, i can look up something technical on wikipedia and get a clearer picture. But sometimes, it's overly technical to the point that if you can understand what the article (or even intro) is saying, you don't need to read the article to begin with.

Phasma Felis
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Re: "Malamanteau" discussion

Postby Phasma Felis » Thu May 13, 2010 6:25 am UTC

squareroot wrote:HUZZAH!

It's been created/deleted thrice now.

We must all go and appeal to wikipedia. We'll get enough people to get the article created, they can't outvote us. Go vote on the discussion page.

You're under the deeply mistaken impression that Wikipedia is a democracy.

Indeed this is exactly why is isn't a democracy, because about every five minutes a bunch of dudes from some website decide it would be totally hilarious if their pet gag was in the encyclopedia.

jonm
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Re: "Malamanteau" Discussion

Postby jonm » Thu May 13, 2010 8:46 am UTC

My hobby: wikipedia editor sniping.

oddtail
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Re: "Malamanteau" Discussion

Postby oddtail » Thu May 13, 2010 9:45 am UTC

Hello... I've been reading xkcd for a while now, and have even visited the forums, but never got around to registering (this place, while fun to read, seems rather... intimidating at times).

But after this comic, I just had to say it:

I've seen things treated as Serious Business before, but the sheer amount (and, occasionally, stupidity) of reaction it has provoked on Wikipedia is just amazing. Xkcd, I salute you.

(also, it's as good an excuse to register in the forums as any other.)

solacelost
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Re: "Malamanteau" discussion

Postby solacelost » Thu May 13, 2010 10:28 am UTC

umpatte0 wrote:I don't know if I'm just reading too much into this, but this is something I saw about this comic:

"A malamanteau is a neologism for a portmanteau created by incorrectly combining a malapropism with a neologism."
What would be the correct combination of malapropism and neologism, Malaprogism? When you first look at Malamanteau, you think it should be a portmanteau of malapropism and portmanteau. This would be the case if the definition were "A malamanteau is a neologism for a portmanteau created by correctly combining a malapropism with a portmanteau." A Malaprogism would be the portmanteau of malapropism and neologism. But the definition of the malamanteau in the comic appears to be the definition of what would be malaprogism, and that incorrect definition is the result of malaprogism itself. I know that neologism and portmanteau don't sound especially similar, but that's why it's said to be used incorrectly. The definition of the word includes a malapropism of the one of the root words itself.

What I'm trying to say is, basicly, there's all these buzzwords floating around (neologism, malapropism, portmanteau). If you don't know what they precisely mean, they're easy to get confused. Instead of combining the words malapropism and neologism, they combined malapropism and neologism, but used the same word that would have been used as the combination of the first two. I think this is why it's mentioned that it's "incorrectly combining" the two words.
Does this make sense to anyone else?



...No.
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gordysc
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Re: "Malamanteau" Discussion

Postby gordysc » Thu May 13, 2010 1:16 pm UTC

oddtail wrote:Hello... I've been reading xkcd for a while now, and have even visited the forums, but never got around to registering (this place, while fun to read, seems rather... intimidating at times).

But after this comic, I just had to say it:

I've seen things treated as Serious Business before, but the sheer amount (and, occasionally, stupidity) of reaction it has provoked on Wikipedia is just amazing. Xkcd, I salute you.

(also, it's as good an excuse to register in the forums as any other.)



Agreed, the talk page about this on wikipedia is hilarious. Wikipedia editor sniping for sure. 8)

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Mr. Burke
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Re: "Malamanteau" discussion

Postby Mr. Burke » Thu May 13, 2010 2:36 pm UTC

Phasma Felis wrote:
squareroot wrote:Indeed this is exactly why is isn't a democracy, because about every five minutes a bunch of dudes from some website decide it would be totally hilarious if their pet gag was in the encyclopedia.

And that website would be The Imageboard Which Shall Not Be Named. We know would Wikipedia would look like then.

About this way, but with less ads.

GunJack
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Re: "Malamanteau" discussion

Postby GunJack » Thu May 13, 2010 2:39 pm UTC

Mr. Burke wrote:
Phasma Felis wrote:
squareroot wrote:Indeed this is exactly why is isn't a democracy, because about every five minutes a bunch of dudes from some website decide it would be totally hilarious if their pet gag was in the encyclopedia.

And that website would be The Imageboard Which Shall Not Be Named. We know would Wikipedia would look like then.

About this way, but with less ads.


LOL
I was thinking more like this [url]boards.4chan.org/b/[/url] :mrgreen:
I will NOT place a link to THAT.
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Re: "Malamanteau" Discussion

Postby extrablue » Thu May 13, 2010 2:53 pm UTC

What I think is great is that the Wiki Eds pants are soo tight and they think that they are responsible for quality work.
I work in a field where we do a lot of fact checking and honestly we don't even go near wikipedia, neither does any academic research.

If Wiki eds wanted their pedia to be taken seriously they should spend more time snarking out and less time being snarky/re-editing the BSG article. More proof that the internet is a perfect breeding ground for douches.
Sorry,
If I'm on internet forums I'm probably drunk.

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Re: "Malamanteau" Discussion

Postby RabbitWho » Thu May 13, 2010 8:26 pm UTC

extrablue wrote: neither does any academic research.
.


Nonsense. Wikipedia is the first place a lot of people go, my college lecturers included. They admitted this but told us not to include it in the bibliography of our thesis! Of course they don't believe every word it says, but it always offers a nice overview and it's an amazing site and a testament to humanity.

Anyway has everyone seen Mr. Munroe's comment on the discussion page?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Malam ... _you_doing.

GunJack
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Re: "Malamanteau" Discussion

Postby GunJack » Thu May 13, 2010 9:43 pm UTC

RabbitWho wrote:
extrablue wrote: neither does any academic research.
.


Nonsense. Wikipedia is the first place a lot of people go, my college lecturers included. They admitted this but told us not to include it in the bibliography of our thesis! Of course they don't believe every word it says, but it always offers a nice overview and it's an amazing site and a testament to humanity.

Anyway has everyone seen Mr. Munroe's comment on the discussion page?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Malam ... _you_doing.



I do not believe that is the real Randall Munroe
why?
first: the capital X...as it is stated in the same site and here.
second: in the banner above the article there's a link where it reads "Randall Munroe,...,has commented on the situation ...", but how does wikipedia verify this?
third: wait... verifying the verification method? and my head explodes

finally, that awful talkpage with awful commentaries AGAINST the guy who gave you the comic for FREE and put up a forum for you equally FREE is a lack of respect.

there is a huge problem within wikipedia, setting a elevated double standard : extense articles about "something" ok because editor like/know "something", xkcd article not ok because editor dont like xkcd.

I end this post with the words of george Carlin: "one standard will do just fine"
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neoliminal
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Re: "Malamanteau" Discussion

Postby neoliminal » Thu May 13, 2010 11:42 pm UTC

Guys, just go to http://uncyclopedia.org please.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0073YYXRC
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BlueNight
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Re: "Malamanteau" Discussion

Postby BlueNight » Fri May 14, 2010 2:35 am UTC

Tricky, Randall, tricky. You put a drawing of the NEW Wikipedia logo up here before it went up on the real site. I can't find the comment in this thread that pointed out the difference in the logo, though...
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iamevn
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Re: "Malamanteau" Discussion

Postby iamevn » Fri May 14, 2010 3:31 am UTC

BlueNight wrote:Tricky, Randall, tricky. You put a drawing of the NEW Wikipedia logo up here before it went up on the real site. I can't find the comment in this thread that pointed out the difference in the logo, though...


i don't believe it
can we get a before and after to prove it?

Mercurywoodrose
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Re: "Malamanteau" Discussion

Postby Mercurywoodrose » Fri May 14, 2010 4:43 am UTC

This is a fascinating example of the cybernetic (feedback yada yada yada) nature of culture. There is a nonzero probability that this word will enter the human vocabulary, and thats just fine. WP, as i posted in their redirects for discussion page for this redirect, is analogous to Maxwell's demon, in that it actively separates out notable information from nonnotable, against entropy, to create itself. which is, of course, what people are. we are conscious, self-directed, organic, cellular, cybernetic, Maxwell's demons, at multiple levels of iteration. we all need to accept this and get over it, and just keep on truckin.

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BlueNight
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Re: "Malamanteau" discussion

Postby BlueNight » Fri May 14, 2010 5:14 am UTC

iamevn wrote:
BlueNight wrote:Tricky, Randall, tricky. You put a drawing of the NEW Wikipedia logo up here before it went up on the real site. I can't find the comment in this thread that pointed out the difference in the logo, though...


i don't believe it
can we get a before and after to prove it?


Sure! From earlier in the thread:

Kromix wrote::( it got deleted

Spoiler:
Image


I would just point you to the History tab, but this is not Wikipedia. (I already miss the thicker bevels on the old logo. *sigh*) He even got the non-italicized "The Free Encyclopedia" right.
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quietus
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Re: "Malamanteau" Discussion

Postby quietus » Fri May 14, 2010 6:55 am UTC

for those people thinking he managed to get the new logo before it was released, i personally cant see any difference, and he could have easily missed the italics.

but if you find sufficient proof he did, its probably because that logo was used on the Beta page of Wikipedia for some time now.

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Patashu
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Re: "Malamanteau" discussion

Postby Patashu » Fri May 14, 2010 7:38 am UTC

jacog wrote:I always thought it'd be fun to create a word that describes synonyms on alphanumeric keypads. You know, like how "book" and "cool", or "home" and "good" each use the same numbers.

A funny one here in South Africa, is that we have a theme park named "Ratanga Junction", and it happens that "satanic" uses the same numbers as "Ratanga" - made for a humorous text message typo once to my wife.

I thought "solonym" would work, since "Solomon" is the listed inventor on the patent for the alphanumeric keypad.

But yeah, how do you go about creating a new word and having it made official?

Just chipping in, I'd base the word off homophone - instead of two words sounding the same, it's two words typing the same. Homotype? Homotext? Homopad?

oddtail
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Re: "Malamanteau" discussion

Postby oddtail » Fri May 14, 2010 12:38 pm UTC

Patashu wrote:
jacog wrote:I always thought it'd be fun to create a word that describes synonyms on alphanumeric keypads. You know, like how "book" and "cool", or "home" and "good" each use the same numbers.

A funny one here in South Africa, is that we have a theme park named "Ratanga Junction", and it happens that "satanic" uses the same numbers as "Ratanga" - made for a humorous text message typo once to my wife.

I thought "solonym" would work, since "Solomon" is the listed inventor on the patent for the alphanumeric keypad.

But yeah, how do you go about creating a new word and having it made official?

Just chipping in, I'd base the word off homophone - instead of two words sounding the same, it's two words typing the same. Homotype? Homotext? Homopad?


Homocellphone?

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SirMustapha
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Re: "Malamanteau" discussion

Postby SirMustapha » Fri May 14, 2010 1:21 pm UTC

Moz wrote:Dammit. Every time xkcd mentions something related to Wikipedia, somebody has to rush over there and edit it. Then their edit gets removed, and people complain about censorship, how Wikipedia isn't really the free encyclopedia that anyone can edit, how admins are corrupt, and how Wikipedia's idea of notability is stupid. Every time.


What's worse is that Randall knows that. Either that or he's a complete dumbass who's not keeping up with the facts. This has happened dozens of times already, and the comic in hand only makes me think that Randall did it on purpose. Come on, what kind of comic is that? There's not even an actual joke in it, and making fun of Wikipedia got old about 4 years ago already. He did that on purpose.

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Re: "Malamanteau" Discussion

Postby VaRaine » Fri May 14, 2010 2:13 pm UTC

Don't ask me why, but I find myself facsinated by this whole hubbub. Reading the hotly debated name-calling argument on the wikipedia discussion page kept me entertained for hours! (Plus I learned all about Godwin's Law). I think that THIS situation is the "joke" Mr. Munroe was going for - I find it hilarious, and educational. His "I told you so, nanny-nanny-boo-boo" observation is deft.

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Re: "Malamanteau" Discussion

Postby lihan161051 » Fri May 14, 2010 2:36 pm UTC

Randall, you're a genius.

We already knew that, but the sheer beauty of the strange loop you created only proves it further.

(And Wikipedia thinks so too. ;) )

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neoliminal
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Re: "Malamanteau" Discussion

Postby neoliminal » Fri May 14, 2010 2:42 pm UTC

1) It's a word. Once two people agree on the meaning of some series of letters, it's a word. Welcome to "language."
2) It does not deserve a Wikipedia Article. It may merit inclusion in the XKCD article or Wikinary.
3) Randall should know there will a backlash by the fans on Wikipedia. If this strokes his ego, I feel sorry for him.
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Re: "Malamanteau" Discussion

Postby VaRaine » Fri May 14, 2010 3:44 pm UTC

Urban Dictionary is now defining Malamanteau as as word defined to infuriate Wikipedia editors.

Wolfkeeper
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Re: "Malamanteau" Discussion

Postby Wolfkeeper » Fri May 14, 2010 10:40 pm UTC

Actually in the name wikipedia- wiki means quick, and pedia refers to children (I'm not making this up, it's the same greek root as paediatic).

Or Quick! Children!

So the term wikipedia really means something like 'home of the pedobear'. :P

deschutron
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Re: "Malamanteau" Discussion

Postby deschutron » Sun May 16, 2010 9:23 pm UTC

Hi guys, I created a Malamanteau article on Uncyclopedia.

Apparently I wasn't the first to do it. The page said there was a deleted version already. But the scanner-guys have now put my version in intensive care for a week before they huff it, so I guess their only complaint is that it's short.

I couldn't read the earlier version (maybe there's a way, I don't know), so I copied the xkcd comic, with a couple of embellishments.

http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Malamanteau
Check it out.

I can't think of anything more to add to it, so if any of guys want to edit it, go ahead.

I thought a fun thing to do would be to think up lots of Malamanteaus and make up a story that mentions them one by one, but Malamanteaus are tricky to think up. It probably doesn't help that I tend to avoid thinking about Portmanteaus and Malapropisms normally.

Deschutron

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Re: "Malamanteau" discussion

Postby uiri » Mon May 17, 2010 9:19 pm UTC

Patashu wrote:
jacog wrote:I always thought it'd be fun to create a word that describes synonyms on alphanumeric keypads. You know, like how "book" and "cool", or "home" and "good" each use the same numbers.

A funny one here in South Africa, is that we have a theme park named "Ratanga Junction", and it happens that "satanic" uses the same numbers as "Ratanga" - made for a humorous text message typo once to my wife.

I thought "solonym" would work, since "Solomon" is the listed inventor on the patent for the alphanumeric keypad.

But yeah, how do you go about creating a new word and having it made official?

Just chipping in, I'd base the word off homophone - instead of two words sounding the same, it's two words typing the same. Homotype? Homotext? Homopad?


Homograph, obviously.
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neoliminal
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Re: "Malamanteau" Discussion

Postby neoliminal » Mon May 17, 2010 10:23 pm UTC

deschutron wrote:Hi guys, I created a Malamanteau article on Uncyclopedia.

Apparently I wasn't the first to do it. The page said there was a deleted version already. But the scanner-guys have now put my version in intensive care for a week before they huff it, so I guess their only complaint is that it's short.

I couldn't read the earlier version (maybe there's a way, I don't know), so I copied the xkcd comic, with a couple of embellishments.

http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Malamanteau
Check it out.

I can't think of anything more to add to it, so if any of guys want to edit it, go ahead.

I thought a fun thing to do would be to think up lots of Malamanteaus and make up a story that mentions them one by one, but Malamanteaus are tricky to think up. It probably doesn't help that I tend to avoid thinking about Portmanteaus and Malapropisms normally.

Deschutron


Try links? Or ... something funny?
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Re: "Malamanteau" discussion

Postby darkspork » Tue May 18, 2010 4:03 am UTC

uiri wrote:
Patashu wrote:
jacog wrote:I always thought it'd be fun to create a word that describes synonyms on alphanumeric keypads. You know, like how "book" and "cool", or "home" and "good" each use the same numbers.

A funny one here in South Africa, is that we have a theme park named "Ratanga Junction", and it happens that "satanic" uses the same numbers as "Ratanga" - made for a humorous text message typo once to my wife.

I thought "solonym" would work, since "Solomon" is the listed inventor on the patent for the alphanumeric keypad.

But yeah, how do you go about creating a new word and having it made official?

Just chipping in, I'd base the word off homophone - instead of two words sounding the same, it's two words typing the same. Homotype? Homotext? Homopad?


Homograph, obviously.

Doesn't that already refer to two words spelled the same with different pronunciations and meanings, like wind?
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Re: "Malamanteau" discussion

Postby BioTube » Tue May 18, 2010 12:24 pm UTC

darkspork wrote:Doesn't that already refer to two words spelled the same with different pronunciations and meanings, like wind?
I always thought it was 'homoglyph', but you're right.
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Re: "Malamanteau" discussion

Postby darkspork » Tue May 18, 2010 9:18 pm UTC

BioTube wrote:
darkspork wrote:Doesn't that already refer to two words spelled the same with different pronunciations and meanings, like wind?
I always thought it was 'homoglyph', but you're right.

Hmmm... then what's the greek root for number?
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Re: "Malamanteau" Discussion

Postby Spangen » Wed May 19, 2010 12:56 pm UTC


Mostly_Harmless
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Re: "Malamanteau" Discussion

Postby Mostly_Harmless » Wed May 19, 2010 7:32 pm UTC

Spangen wrote:Hey,

Looks like we made BBC America!

http://www.bbcnewsamerica.com/malamante ... pedia.html

That's not the BBC.

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Re: "Malamanteau" Discussion

Postby kenas » Thu May 20, 2010 3:05 am UTC

Just a little side-note, thingy here.

Has anybody else noticed that the half-completed runic sphere of Wikipedia sort of resembles the half-completed Death Star? Just a thought.....

Lathe
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Re: "Malamanteau" discussion

Postby Lathe » Wed Jun 02, 2010 2:53 pm UTC

DragonHawk wrote:FWIW, that's the International Phonetic Alphabet. The reason it's used is that Wikipedia is supposed to be global and as language neutral as possible. The pronunciation conventions used in dictionaries vary widely. Worst of all, pronunciation itself varies widely. "Correct pronunciation" will be very different for American vs British speakers. The IPA is seen as a lesser evil, which makes everyone equally unhappy. Nobody's been able to come up with a better idea. Do you have one?

I have some familiarity with IPA. Instead of providing a mechanism that at least some people understand, the idea was to come up with a new, overly-precise mechanism that barely anyone understands.

My recommendation is to use the pronounciation mechanisms we were taught in elementary school: use the bar and curve symbols over the vowels and use consonants that have less ambiguous sounds. For example, "cat" is pronounced as "kăt". While this mechanism isn't perfect, it was used to teach generations of Americans pronounciation (can't speak for UK) so are large portion of the population knows it. For those who were not taught it, it is very trivial to learn. This would allow Wikipedia to succeed where it is currently failing.

IPA reminds me of a joke...

A helicopter pilot flying near Seattle lost his navigational instruments in a fog. To get his bearing he flew to the nearest office building he could find. There he circled the building while his copilot held up a hand written sign so it could be read by workers in the building. The sign read
"Where am I?"
The office workers scrambled about, then held up a sign of there own. It read:
"You're in a helicopter."
The pilot nodded his thanks and immediately flew a beeline to his heliport. Once he landed his copilot asked:
"How could that answer possibly help you find your way here?"
The pilot answered:
"The answer was technically correct but utterly useless. So I knew we were at the Microsoft building."


IPA is like Microsoft. It is technically correct but utterly useless.

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Re: "Malamanteau" Discussion (#739)

Postby csours » Fri Jun 18, 2010 2:12 pm UTC



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