0739: "Malamanteau"

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lilyology
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Re: "Malamanteau" discussion

Postby lilyology » Wed May 12, 2010 6:51 am UTC

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Portmanteau

For the backstory on this all you need is the discussion thread for that tired old word.

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Re: "Malamanteau" discussion

Postby memcginn » Wed May 12, 2010 6:57 am UTC

Neologism? More like Neo-LOL-jism!

Okay, I think I'm close. It might involve a malapropism...somewhere.... Not sure if you could call that a portmanteau. On the bright side, it definitely uses at least one neologism. How'd I do?

Please pardon the crudeness of the joke. It sort of just...wandered into my head after reading the comic and the thread for long enough.
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Re: "Malamanteau" discussion

Postby jnnnnn » Wed May 12, 2010 7:02 am UTC

My prediction: in one year's time, this comic will be perfectly accurate.

Randall is fucking with all of us. That's the joke here, and it's hilarious.

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Re: "Malamanteau" discussion

Postby gooley » Wed May 12, 2010 7:17 am UTC

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Re: "Malamanteau" discussion

Postby psyEDk » Wed May 12, 2010 7:54 am UTC

oh god why can't i stop farting :(
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Re: "Malamanteau" discussion

Postby RabbitWho » Wed May 12, 2010 8:39 am UTC

I think this is my new favourite... If only there were more occasions to use it we could make it a real word very quickly.

http://www.wordnik.com/words/malamanteau

Wordnik is like urban dictionary except it won't accept words that don't have citations in professional texts... I wonder does XKCD count?
Someone try. I'm supposed to be working right now.


[on a side note I'd like to point out that this word has many of the attributes of a dyslexic persons nightmare three As in sequence, Ms and Ns, an E and an A together like that ea. It's like drawing folded stripes. Malamanamamantaeu.]

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Red Hal
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Re: "Malamanteau" discussion

Postby Red Hal » Wed May 12, 2010 9:00 am UTC

RabbitWho wrote:Malamanamamantaeu.
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Zorglub
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Re: "Malamanteau" discussion

Postby Zorglub » Wed May 12, 2010 9:00 am UTC

jnnnnn wrote:My prediction: in one year's time, this comic will be perfectly accurate.

Randall is fucking with all of us. That's the joke here, and it's hilarious.


That is exactly what I thought (after a bit of thinking). Bootstrapping a word is incredibly awesome! 8)

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jacog
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Re: "Malamanteau" discussion

Postby jacog » Wed May 12, 2010 9:01 am UTC

I always thought it'd be fun to create a word that describes synonyms on alphanumeric keypads. You know, like how "book" and "cool", or "home" and "good" each use the same numbers.

A funny one here in South Africa, is that we have a theme park named "Ratanga Junction", and it happens that "satanic" uses the same numbers as "Ratanga" - made for a humorous text message typo once to my wife.

I thought "solonym" would work, since "Solomon" is the listed inventor on the patent for the alphanumeric keypad.

But yeah, how do you go about creating a new word and having it made official?

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Re: "Malamanteau" discussion

Postby RabbitWho » Wed May 12, 2010 9:23 am UTC

Well there's no such thing as an official word.
If you mean how do you get it into the Oxford English dictionary all you have to do is get enough people to use it in official text, newspapers, books, magazines, everything... and when it is used enough for a few years then they will put it in. That's how it works with all the neologisms. It's the very same system as wikipedia except for you have to be a professional Lexicographer working for Oxford.
I think if you are Charles Dickens or an astrophysicist like Hong-Yee Chiu you can get a word in just by putting it in your own book or publication and proving it is not a synonym of any existing word and it has an exact meaning. [boredom, quasar]

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Re: "Malamanteau" discussion

Postby Nol-anderthal » Wed May 12, 2010 9:35 am UTC

Stop sneaking up--you chortled me!

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Re: "Malamanteau" discussion

Postby ratnix » Wed May 12, 2010 9:50 am UTC

This is not the penultimate time we'll see certain words overused on Wikipedia.

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Mr. Burke
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Re: "Malamanteau" discussion

Postby Mr. Burke » Wed May 12, 2010 10:30 am UTC

squareroot wrote:HUZZAH!

It's been created/deleted thrice now.

We must all go and appeal to wikipedia. We'll get enough people to get the article created, they can't outvote us. Go vote on the discussion page.


Or we just behave like reasonable beings for a change.

RabbitWho wrote:Well there's no such thing as an official word.


At least not in English. French, on the other hand ...

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Re: "Malamanteau" discussion

Postby RabbitWho » Wed May 12, 2010 10:38 am UTC

Mr. Burke wrote:
squareroot wrote:HUZZAH!

It's been created/deleted thrice now.

We must all go and appeal to wikipedia. We'll get enough people to get the article created, they can't outvote us. Go vote on the discussion page.


Or we just behave like reasonable beings for a change.

RabbitWho wrote:Well there's no such thing as an official word.


At least not in English. French, on the other hand ...



Hee hee true! And you should see how they do it in Czech! If it didn't exist before 17th century then it's "colloquial" and with the exception of proper nouns which are new inventions it's pretty frowned upon to use it in written language! Imagine if we were only allowed to use Shakesperean English in writing but still spoke as we do now.

It's funny that not including scientific words there are about 800,000 in English, and yet we still need to invent new ones all the time. You would think one of those 800,000 would do.

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Re: "Malamanteau" discussion

Postby solacelost » Wed May 12, 2010 10:46 am UTC

Somehow this comic led me to Wikipedia, which lead to me looking at a lot of useless shit, which led to me downloading a PDF copy of the Principia Discordia.

What the fuck?

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Re: "Malamanteau" discussion

Postby jimbob_barnes » Wed May 12, 2010 11:00 am UTC

sourmìlk wrote:I think the actual joke is that the word "malamanteau" is itself a malamanteau.

The word is recursive


You mean autological, it expresses a property which (supposedly) it has itself.

The question is, is "autological" an autological word?

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Re: "Malamanteau" discussion

Postby RandAlThor » Wed May 12, 2010 11:41 am UTC

Randall: LEARN HOW TO USE A FUCKING APOSTROPHE!

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Re: "Malamanteau" discussion

Postby allanlw » Wed May 12, 2010 11:50 am UTC

I don't know if anyone has said this yet, but right now "malamanteau" is the 4th most popular google search in the past hour and "malamanteau wiki" is the 6th.

http://www.google.com/trends/hottrends?sa=X&date=2010-5-12

Attached is a screenshot of current trends page, taken right before I posted this.

EDIT: didn't notice that "malamanteau wikipedia" is also the 7th result!
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malamanteau.png
malamanteau.png (11.48 KiB) Viewed 5094 times

dbmag9
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Re: "Malamanteau" discussion

Postby dbmag9 » Wed May 12, 2010 11:52 am UTC

1) I'm fairly sure the joke is simply that Wikipedia article introductions do use the words 'portmanteau', 'malapropism' and 'neologism' quite a lot. It made me laugh, but that's mainly because I used to edit Wikimedia a fair amount when I was even younger, and it does ring true. The word 'malamanteau' is simply an excuse to get all three into one paragraph, through the Magic of Recursion. Yes, 'Wikipedia' is a portmanteau (of 'wiki', from the Hawaian, and 'encyclopedia', from the Greek), but that's not the point here (imho).

2) You're allowed to use an apostrophe to denote the plural of a number, at least according to Lynne Truss (Eats, Shoots and Leaves).
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matzo
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Re: "Malamanteau" discussion

Postby matzo » Wed May 12, 2010 11:54 am UTC

Where lies the difference with a regular 'contaminatio (Latin style figure)' or 'blend'?

eg. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blend
(Although the dutch wikipedia article is better: http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contaminatie_(taal))
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theflatworm
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Re: "Malamanteau" discussion

Postby theflatworm » Wed May 12, 2010 11:58 am UTC

Response to main comic: is this really a joke about the discussion page for the wikipedia entry on portmanteau? If so, it certainly gets a 10/10 for obscurity. I do feel that, over that last few weeks, I've started wanting to say 'I liked his early stuff better.' How indie kid of me.

Reponse to post-comic chatterings:

[...] which led to me downloading a PDF copy of the Principia Discordia.

What the fuck?


Oh dear. That's hardcore literary shit. You don't want to be messing with that.

It's funny that not including scientific words there are about 800,000 in English, and yet we still need to invent new ones all the time.


You know that metal cage thing you get on the top of champagne bottles, over the top of the cork. No word for that. It's a travesty.

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Re: "Malamanteau" discussion

Postby dbmag9 » Wed May 12, 2010 12:13 pm UTC

[...] which led to me downloading a PDF copy of the Principia Discordia.

What the fuck?

http://xkcd.com/214/

theflatworm wrote:
It's funny that not including scientific words there are about 800,000 in English, and yet we still need to invent new ones all the time.

You know that metal cage thing you get on the top of champagne bottles, over the top of the cork. No word for that. It's a travesty.

It's called a muselet. http://www.portfolio.com/interactive-features/2007/12/champagne.
-dbmag9

mszegedy
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Re: "Malamanteau" discussion

Postby mszegedy » Wed May 12, 2010 12:17 pm UTC

Franz wrote:Regarding the alt-text:
this is why i me and my friend would play wikipedia races. What you do is select a topic, say... The history of the american flag. you both go to the homepage, press the random button and press navigate through links to get to the american flag article. I got the idea from: http://xkcd.com/214/

What can i say? bored in computer science class... compiling

I'm fairly sure every page in wikipedia is linked to one-another somehow


I thought only I did that… however, Google is fair game for a starting point, except you can only type in two letters.

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Re: "Malamanteau" discussion

Postby RabbitWho » Wed May 12, 2010 12:18 pm UTC

theflatworm wrote:Response to main comic: is this really a joke about the discussion page for the wikipedia entry on portmanteau? If so, it certainly gets a 10/10 for obscurity. I do feel that, over that last few weeks, I've started wanting to say 'I liked his early stuff better.' How indie kid of me.
.


When I first started checking XKCD every week for comics I felt like I had just missed all the good stuff, then i realized it's all funny and getting funnier if it's read in sequence from the beginning. So go back and do that every time there's a new comic.




There seems to be something missing from the "see also" links....

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Re: "Malamanteau" discussion

Postby GunJack » Wed May 12, 2010 12:33 pm UTC

RandAlThor wrote:Randall: LEARN HOW TO USE A FUCKING APOSTROPHE!



are those used like a regular apostrophe?? :?: :?: :?: :?: :?:

mmm....reminds me of some fucking jacket... :P
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Re: "Malamanteau" discussion

Postby Eternal Density » Wed May 12, 2010 12:38 pm UTC

Derp.
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Re: "Malamanteau" discussion

Postby RabbitWho » Wed May 12, 2010 12:47 pm UTC

Not feeling confident about what exactly the joke was, the XKCD fans took the time to laugh at every individual word.



Hey!

Get on twitter! Use the hashtag; #malamanteau to list examples of malamanteau. Some people are doing it already... most people are just wondering why it's a trending search (or trying to cash in on that).

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Re: "Malamanteau" discussion

Postby theflatworm » Wed May 12, 2010 12:49 pm UTC



I stand corrected. That article I read in The Independent lied to me. :(

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Tei
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Re: "Malamanteau" discussion

Postby Tei » Wed May 12, 2010 12:50 pm UTC

I don't know if the concept is interesting or not, because the deletionism puritans censors have killed the page on wikipedia.

So sad Wikipedia is run by censors now :-(

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Re: "Malamanteau" discussion

Postby RabbitWho » Wed May 12, 2010 12:54 pm UTC

Did the page really exist before last night? My impression was that it had just been invented and then XKCD fans created it.

A lot of less-than-reputable news sources feel differently:
http://www.examiner.com/x-14795-Page-On ... -wikipedia
http://news.lalate.com/2010/05/12/malam ... wikipedia/

They are the top two google hits - certainly just trying to cash in on the trending search.


So.. The page did exist yesterday? And the extra attention caused wikipedia to realize it was silly and delete it?

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Re: "Malamanteau" discussion

Postby theflatworm » Wed May 12, 2010 12:57 pm UTC

Tei wrote:I don't know if the concept is interesting or not, because the deletionism puritans censors have killed the page on wikipedia.

So sad Wikipedia is run by censors now :-(



To be fair, it's not actually a generally recognised word yet. However, the good news is that we can make it a word if we want it long enough, and on mass...
Last edited by theflatworm on Wed May 12, 2010 1:03 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: "Malamanteau" discussion

Postby theflatworm » Wed May 12, 2010 1:02 pm UTC

RabbitWho wrote:A lot of less-than-reputable news sources feel differently:
http://www.examiner.com/x-14795-Page-On ... -wikipedia
http://news.lalate.com/2010/05/12/malam ... wikipedia/

They are the top two google hits - certainly just trying to cash in on the trending search.


I love the second one! Reads like a first year undergrad's essays:

"A prompt search of “Malamanteau” into Wikipedia asks the user if the word being sought instead is “mallammana”. Mallammana is the first name of a character in its title role from a 1969 Indian film. The film called Mallammana Pavaada was “a Kannada language film released in 1969″ with the “heroine of the film [being] Mallamma” played by B Sarojadevi."

I kept expecting to see: 'the dictionary defines Malamanteau as...'

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Re: "Malamanteau" discussion

Postby Andrusi » Wed May 12, 2010 1:22 pm UTC

compro01 wrote:
Kromix wrote::( it got deleted

Spoiler:
Image


what? it was not made up in school. it was made up on xkcd!

I'm more confused by the reference to the Ignore all rules policy. How is that relevant?
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Re: "Malamanteau" discussion

Postby DragonHawk » Wed May 12, 2010 1:22 pm UTC

"Malamanteau" is a perfectly cromulent word. (I'm surprised nobody's posted a remark like this yet.)
-----
My understanding is that if one has a "Randal get of my head moment", one is morally obligated to post it in the comic thread. So: I was actually correcting some remarks on the Wikipedia meta pages about xkcd references right before I remembered it was Wednesday and should check out the new xkcd.
-----
Props to GunJack for the "Jacket" reference.
-----
RabbitWho wrote:Did the page really exist before last night?

No. It was created in response to the comic. The talk page has a screen cap of the history.
Andrusi wrote:I'm more confused by the reference to the Ignore all rules policy. How is that relevant?

It is dis-improving the encyclopedia to spam it with every damn thing xkcd mentions. Thus, the page was deleted. There's no need for a specific rule for xkcd spam. Hence IAR. Contrary to what many people think, Wikipedia is trying to be a serious encyclopedia. It's not there for amusement. (Try Uncyclopedia for that.) (Note that the fact that Wikpedia is far from perfect does not mean it's not trying to be a serious encyclopedia.)

(Sorry to be a stick in the mud, but xkcd spam has been going on for *years* now, and it's Just. Not. Funny. Anymore. A seminal xkcd explains the principle: http://xkcd.com/16/)

(Humorous note: When I went to link the talk page, I at first used MediaWiki markup without even thinking about it. Fortunately I preview religiously.)

(Serious note: Hmmm, actually, it would be cool if phpBB supported MediaWiki markup for links. BBCode is so cumbersome and pointless. It's just as cryptic as HTML, yet gratuitously incompatible.)

(Seriouser note: I am now late for work.)
Last edited by DragonHawk on Wed May 12, 2010 1:30 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: "Malamanteau" discussion

Postby RabbitWho » Wed May 12, 2010 1:24 pm UTC

Ah ha ha that's true!

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.p ... id=4957403
http://www.wordnik.com/words/malamanteau


Viral? :)

What was I gonna say... Oh yeah this is different to making a Wikipedia page about anything else.. Like wood in popular culture for example... This is a word which should exist. It has a unique function and a pretty cool one at that.

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Re: "Malamanteau" discussion

Postby bruhinb » Wed May 12, 2010 1:39 pm UTC

"...and the blogosphere will implode."

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Re: "Malamanteau" discussion

Postby ablestmage » Wed May 12, 2010 1:44 pm UTC

RabbitWho wrote:Well there's no such thing as an official word.

I'm glad someone could say this before I did. I was afraid this board was entirely squiptipadoogleboinkafloppists, despite the overtly descriptive nature of language. If we want to make a word up and say that it means something, then it simply does and that's the end of it.

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Re: "Malamanteau" discussion

Postby ludwig_van2 » Wed May 12, 2010 2:08 pm UTC

Yes, hello everyone. I am the inventor of the word "malamanteau." Royalty checks and self-addressed stamped envelopes for autographed headshots can be sent to my publicist at 6** N 19th St., Philadelphia PA, 19130. Best wishes,

Steve

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Re: "Malamanteau" discussion

Postby YuriPup » Wed May 12, 2010 2:09 pm UTC

Is it bad of me to think the real humor in this comic is the serious discussion going on on the talk page for Malamanteau?

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Re: "Malamanteau" discussion

Postby umpatte0 » Wed May 12, 2010 2:12 pm UTC

I don't know if I'm just reading too much into this, but this is something I saw about this comic:

"A malamanteau is a neologism for a portmanteau created by incorrectly combining a malapropism with a neologism."
What would be the correct combination of malapropism and neologism, Malaprogism? When you first look at Malamanteau, you think it should be a portmanteau of malapropism and portmanteau. This would be the case if the definition were "A malamanteau is a neologism for a portmanteau created by correctly combining a malapropism with a portmanteau." A Malaprogism would be the portmanteau of malapropism and neologism. But the definition of the malamanteau in the comic appears to be the definition of what would be malaprogism, and that incorrect definition is the result of malaprogism itself. I know that neologism and portmanteau don't sound especially similar, but that's why it's said to be used incorrectly. The definition of the word includes a malapropism of the one of the root words itself.

What I'm trying to say is, basicly, there's all these buzzwords floating around (neologism, malapropism, portmanteau). If you don't know what they precisely mean, they're easy to get confused. Instead of combining the words malapropism and neologism, they combined malapropism and neologism, but used the same word that would have been used as the combination of the first two. I think this is why it's mentioned that it's "incorrectly combining" the two words.
Does this make sense to anyone else?


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