0743: "Infrastructures"

[jacog]

Note: The above is not actually obnoxious Socratic posturing. I'm genuinely curious.

I think on that guy maybe obnoxious Socratic posturing would have worked better.

Or, just ignore anyone who uses terms like "douche", "noob", "fag/gay", etc. to describe anything/anyone.

(feel free to mention his mom though)

[Kalos]

Okay, so social networking sites that care nothing about your privacy continuing to care nothing about your privacy is bad, yes. But making a big deal out of a .doc file, when your precious OpenOffice can open the damn thing, and any halfway decent e-mail client will let you automatically preview that shit still makes you a douche bag who's just trying to be different and probably autistic or something. Also, OpenOffice is trash. The word processor is tolerable, their attempt at Excel is laughably pathetic though.

Really? You hate Calc that much? What features are missing? I've been using it for years and never noticed any major differences from Excel, except that most of the spreadsheet functions use a slightly different format. What are the features you are missing? I would have expected more complaints about the slideshow program or the weird-ass margin sizes on the word processor's default templates.

Note: The above is not actually obnoxious Socratic posturing. I'm genuinely curious.

For starters there's the simple fact that you can't open up an Excel file without all of the absolutely everything going to hell. Using these spreadsheet functions is pretty awkward, (which is saying something since Excel is cryptic enough that there are classes on how to use it). Graphing features are a chore to use. I could go on, but the last time I tried to get into an in-depth conversation about the failings of OpenOffice, it created a rift of despair and woe into the very fabric of the universe that was so strong it actually created Detroit.

[ikajaste]

Okay, so social networking sites that care nothing about your privacy continuing to care nothing about your privacy is bad, yes. But making a big deal out of a .doc file [...] is laughably pathetic though.

So... Sure, the huge iceberg that lurks below the surface and rips open your ships hull is bad, but hey, don't you dare whine about that little tip you see there, oh no, we don't need to worry about those tips, they're really no bother!

[Kalos]

Okay, so social networking sites that care nothing about your privacy continuing to care nothing about your privacy is bad, yes. But making a big deal out of a .doc file [...] is laughably pathetic though.

So... Sure, the huge iceberg that lurks below the surface and rips open your ships hull is bad, but hey, don't you dare whine about that little tip you see there, oh no, we don't need to worry about those tips, they're really no bother!

If you can explain what about Facebook could have been fixed by being a passive-aggressive jerk about document files that everybody else (for certain superlative definitions of everybody) uses, where there are a myriad of completely free ways to view the file (both official and unofficial) I would certainly like to hear it.

I think on that guy maybe obnoxious Socratic posturing would have worked better.

Or, just ignore anyone who uses terms like "douche", "noob", "fag/gay", etc. to describe anything/anyone.

(feel free to mention his mom though)

I can tell from the sheer smugness emanating from this post that you're a big fan of OpenOffice.

[Flayer]

"Battle.net 2.0" by Blizzard is going to have Facebook integration so all the useless achievements can be spammed everywhere.
I can't wait for the Twitter integration that automatically tweets whenever you win a game.

Not that I have an account on either, but still ...

And maybe sometime when Blizzard gets around to it, I can play with my US buddies or with people in my home (currently B.net disconnects when we log in with our separate accounts on separate PCs behind the same router and there is no LAN option). And maybe at some point have an actual chat channel in the game itself, as Battle.net 1.0 had so I can communicate with a group of people without being limited by a 'party'. But at least there's Facebook!

[tastelikecoke]

Our school used odf file as a standard file format, but it's simply pathetic. It works, but you have to suffer on an interface of 1997 software. It even has a 1997 launcher and a 1997 format.

[BigMcStrongmuscle]

For starters there's the simple fact that you can't open up an Excel file without all of the absolutely everything going to hell. Using these spreadsheet functions is pretty awkward, (which is saying something since Excel is cryptic enough that there are classes on how to use it). Graphing features are a chore to use. I could go on, but the last time I tried to get into an in-depth conversation about the failings of OpenOffice, it created a rift of despair and woe into the very fabric of the universe that was so strong it actually created Detroit.

I've never had issues opening excel files, or thought the formulas and charts were terribly difficult at all after the first three days. To each his own, I suppose, but I hardly think "autistic douchebaggery" is the only reason anyone would disagree with you. You may wish to ease off the flamebait there.

EDIT: Yeah, just tried to open a bunch of excel documents there. Formulas, lookup tables, it all seems to work fine. Didn't test charts, but I didn't have one handy, and I'm not about to reinstall Office just to make one. . Maybe there's something wrong with your install or your box.

[Kalos]

For starters there's the simple fact that you can't open up an Excel file without all of the absolutely everything going to hell. Using these spreadsheet functions is pretty awkward, (which is saying something since Excel is cryptic enough that there are classes on how to use it). Graphing features are a chore to use. I could go on, but the last time I tried to get into an in-depth conversation about the failings of OpenOffice, it created a rift of despair and woe into the very fabric of the universe that was so strong it actually created Detroit.

I've never had issues opening excel files, or thought the formulas and charts were terribly difficult at all after the first three days. To each his own, I suppose, but I hardly think "autistic douchebaggery" is the only reason anyone would disagree with you. You may wish to ease off the flamebait there.

EDIT: Yeah, just tried to open a bunch of excel documents there. Formulas, lookup tables, it all seems to work fine. Didn't test charts, but I didn't have one handy, and I'm not about to reinstall Office just to make one. . Maybe there's something wrong with your install or your box.

2003 or 2007? I haven't bothered to use OpenOffice since last semester, so they might have fixed it since then. Still a rather grievous error when you're entire marketing is based off of "it works with MS Office, we swear!"

I also never even implied that it was the only reason people use OpenOffice. I merely stated that it's a horrible program because, well... it is. I mentioned that people who behave like the guy in the comic (of which I've met plenty, having a major in a computer-based field) use it out of "autistic douchebaggery" which I guess is also magically the term I used now.

[BigMcStrongmuscle]

2003 or 2007? I haven't bothered to use OpenOffice since last semester, so they might have fixed it since then. Still a rather grievous error when you're entire marketing is based off of "it works with MS Office, we swear!"

I also never even implied that it was the only reason people use OpenOffice. I merely stated that it's a horrible program because, well... it is. I mentioned that people who behave like the guy in the comic (of which I've met plenty, having a major in a computer-based field) use it out of "autistic douchebaggery" which I guess is also magically the term I used now.

I'm pretty sure I made each of the test files using Excel 2007, before I switched over completely.

Sorry about the misused quotes - my attempt at a more concise sentence kinda backfired there - but I do mean people like the comic guy. Caring enough to tell people about open standards and Microsoft Office exploits really doesn't make a guy a jerk; just an outspoken free-software type. Pushing opinions down the throats of people who expressly have told you they don't care makes someone a jerk, but thats not endemic to OOo - just an annoying minority of loud people everywhere.

[jacog]

I can tell from the sheer smugness emanating from this post that you're a big fan of OpenOffice.

Actually, in my line of work I have no need of word processing. Don't even have any office software installed.

At this point I feel like I should go on and explain about open standards and what negative impact the lack thereof has, but it seems so obvious to me that I really don't want to.

[baltakatei]

Okay, so social networking sites that care nothing about your privacy continuing to care nothing about your privacy is bad, yes. But making a big deal out of a .doc file, when your precious OpenOffice can open the damn thing, and any halfway decent e-mail client will let you automatically preview that shit still makes you a douche bag who's just trying to be different and probably autistic or something. Also, OpenOffice is trash. The word processor is tolerable, their attempt at Excel is laughably pathetic though.

Really? You hate Calc that much? What features are missing? I've been using it for years and never noticed any major differences from Excel, except that most of the spreadsheet functions use a slightly different format. What are the features you are missing? I would have expected more complaints about the slideshow program or the weird-ass margin sizes on the word processor's default templates.

Note: The above is not actually obnoxious Socratic posturing. I'm genuinely curious.

For one thing, Solver. I mean, there's no obvious way to get a non-linear solver plug-in to work with whatever plug-in module setup Calc uses. Also, sure, I limped along graphing things in Calc, but despite not having used Excel for 5 years I was pulling out awesome customized scatter plots within the hour of installing it.

[DVC]

They send all notices and information as pdf attachments to emails, which is frigging ridiculous.

No it's not

It is if it's 5 lines long. Use text and stop making me open a bloody attachment!

[Manial]

I was enjoying the first two panels, but then I read the rest and suffocated in smug.

[Borbus]

I'm always bitching about how wrong it is to send ANYTHING in .doc format. Especially some Uni office workers who send announcements out. It's just wrong to be reading something that's only meant for reading in the bloody editor.

Yes. A lot of people don't know the difference between something like M$ Turd and a text editor. Often plain ASCII is sufficient for sending messages. Turd, OOo, TeX etc. are actually for typesetting documents (although the first two do it horribly). The reason for typesetting is that you actually want it to be printed out at some point. There are much better formats for screen only use, like HTML. If you must send a typeset document, use PDF. If you want the other party to be able to edit the document then you must agree on a format to use beforehand. I wouldn't send somebody LaTeX source code and expect them to "deal with it". And I do not expect to receive DOC, ODF etc. either.

[Sizik]

Just a note: OpenDocument didn't become a standard until 2005.

[Steroid]

For me, Facebook avoidance isn't so much about Open Source. It's more about the fact that we used to have a gateway that promised to be your portal to the Internet, a true Home Page that you could use to make Net use easier. . . and it was called AOL!

[Karilyn]

But I like OpenOffice. Just because I like it better than Microsoft Office. No fancy reason. Same with their spreadsheets.

[Borbus]

There is a common issue between proprietary file formats and facebook. It's the problem of vendor lock in. Many people think having Micro$oft Turd is absolutely necessary for communication with people, because DOC is such a popular format. It's the same with facebook. People who use facebook don't talk to each other in real life. They don't make plans in real life. If you want to know about these plans and be "social" you have to use facebook. It's quite similar to vendor lock in.

It doesn't have much to do with "open source" (or Free Software), though. Since that is mentioned in the comic it just makes this stereotype comedy.

[A'Tuin]

Yo Xkcd

Haven't posted for a while but thought this comic's alt text was far to good an opportunity for a shameless plug of Diaspora.

Diaspora is not a ''facebook killer'

They are trying to replace all social networking tools, but more importantly they are trying to decentralise them. Each user has there own node (or seed as Diaspora calls them),on a server they control. On this all their information(Profiles,messages,tweets etc) would be stored and the ways in which it could be accessed and used would be completely in control of the user. The whole project is Open source, and having read quite a few interviews with the team I feel this is a awesome Idea.

I'm dyslectic and bad at explaining things to boot, so please give the Diaspora team 3m32s of your time and see what you think

http://vimeo.com/11099292

http://joindiaspora.com/project.html

[RabbitWho]

There was an alternative to .doc in 2003? Wow! I was 16 and still writing Watership Down fan fictions on a windows 98 computer. I think most people were (16 and writing WDFF on Win98)

I guess I was pretty late to catch on to open source. I blame dial up.


Guys, surely it's much easier to send everything as .doc? No? You can read it in open office and others so what's the problem?

I mean take my CVs.. I send them .doc.. I need the companies to be able to read them.. what format do you want me to use? Also I'm not necessarily sending them to people who have any interest in all this... so I need them to be familiar with it and know what to do with it.
I used to sent everything as html files, but I found people got confused and thought they were being shown a website.

Genuine question.. I'm totally in the dark about this and don't want to be obliviously using an immoral file extension.

[Karilyn]

I also never even implied that it was the only reason people use OpenOffice. I merely stated that it's a horrible program because, well... it is.

It really isn't. I suspect the main problem is that you are unwilling to spend an hour or two with getting re-accustomed to the differences between the two word processors... the same hour or two you spent originally learning Microsoft Office.

There is nothing really more or less intuitive about Microsoft Office or Open Office. Both are very even footed equals. Just one is free and the other isn't... Well, at least that was the only difference before Microsoft Office 2007 was released. I question if you have tried Microsoft Office 2007 yet, as it is extremely unintuitive, and one of the worst interfaces I have ever had the misfortune of working with. And this isn't just a "Oh I used it once but hate it" thing. I used the program for well over a year because my college adopted it. "Let's just take up half the screen with buttons! Nevermind that menus are totally awesome, compact, and easy to navigate, we'll forgo them in order to make Office look like Internet Explorer with way too many spyware toolbars installed"

*yawns* Sure you can just pirate a copy of Microsoft Office or Photoshop. Then again, why deal with the hassle of piracy when OpenOffice and GIMP are free, and quite literally are every bit as efficient, if you just take the few minutes you did when you first got Microsoft Office and Photoshop, and simply just learn how to use it. Easier to learn it the second time too, cause you already know how the features work, you only need to locate them.

[gordysc]

I could go on, but the last time I tried to get into an in-depth conversation about the failings of OpenOffice, it created a rift of despair and woe into the very fabric of the universe that was so strong it actually created Detroit.

Rofl. That sir just made my day.

[Stay_Puft_marshmallows]

Facebook's power grab does not in any way detract from the fact that non-beard-guy is 100% right in the first 2 panels.

[Karilyn]

Facebook's power grab does not in any way detract from the fact that non-beard-guy is 100% right in the first 2 panels.

The day I have day I have a problem with Open Office is the day that... well I still won't agree with you. When using Microsoft Office, it fails to work on a near daily basis. It is a formating nightmare. Good luck making your document look like how you want it to look when you print it out. You're going to need it.

If you aren't planning on printing it out... Why aren't you using NotePad, WordPad, TextEdit, or one of the gajillion other free plaintext editors, most of which come pre-packaged with your Operating System? If you are sending a file to someone else that you don't intend to be printed out, and you aren't sending it in .txt or .rtf, you are doing it wrong. Nobody likes spending 3 minutes downloading a .doc file that could have been downloaded in 3 seconds if it was saved in .txt or .rtf formats.

If on the off-chance you are planning on having the person print out the document, then if you aren't sending it in .pdf you're doing it wrong.

Either way, the non-beard-guy is 100% wrong in the first two panels. Admittedly beard guy is still wrong too, but for a different reason.

EDIT: Honestly let's face it. Even if you want to argue that Microsoft Office is a marginally better word processor, is it worth the extra $500 per computer in your house? Seriously? And piracy of course isn't an option if you have a business. Microsoft Office is one of the grossest wastes of money ever.

[sabik]

For me, the tag on the first panel should be some time in the nineties... whenever I first read RMS's "Right to Read".


First time you read it, back in the nineties, you might dismiss it - it's just paranoid, except for maybe three points from which he's extrapolating.

A couple of years later you might come across it again and it's still just paranoid, except for maybe four points from which he's extrapolating.

A few years on, it's still just paranoid, except for maybe five—

Drats.


η

[squonk]

I can't believe that nobody has figured this out yet!

The bearded guy is obviously Mohammed.

[ProZac]

I also never even implied that it was the only reason people use OpenOffice. I merely stated that it's a horrible program because, well... it is.

It really isn't. I suspect the main problem is that you are unwilling to spend an hour or two with getting re-accustomed to the differences between the two word processors... the same hour or two you spent originally learning Microsoft Office.

There is nothing really more or less intuitive about Microsoft Office or Open Office. Both are very even footed equals. Just one is free and the other isn't... Well, at least that was the only difference before Microsoft Office 2007 was released. I question if you have tried Microsoft Office 2007 yet, as it is extremely unintuitive, and one of the worst interfaces I have ever had the misfortune of working with. And this isn't just a "Oh I used it once but hate it" thing. I used the program for well over a year because my college adopted it. "Let's just take up half the screen with buttons! Nevermind that menus are totally awesome, compact, and easy to navigate, we'll forgo them in order to make Office look like Internet Explorer with way too many spyware toolbars installed"

I used OpenOffice (2003, I think?) for close to 2 years in college. It was quite the horrible experience. It was slow to open any program, granted my machine sucked. Formatting never seemed to save if I transferred between machines. They 'compatibility with MS' was terrible, so I couldn't take my work from my computer to another computer. Eventually, I got a cheap copy of MS Office 07 and it was happy days. Sure, all the changes were annoying at first, but after a bit of extended use, I find it's really a better interface. 'Menus' are more descriptive, and it's easier to find what I'm looking for. Maybe OpenOffice has improved since I used it, but I'd have a hard time convincing myself to use it again.

[Sebastian]

Moin Moin

This comic made me really laugh.
Maybe because I'm a long-haired bearded guy working with and on several open source projects.

I had a discussion some moths ago with two other programmers about open source licenses.
There were basicly three different points of view.
One of them was working as a programmer for years now, the other on is just studying at a university
and me who has just finished school and programs websites and applications for $$ in his free time.
After some hours we realized exactly the same stuff, as shown in the comic.
A lot of those bearded open source fanatics who had some good points in the past, seem to have become totally insane.

At that time I was developing an application using Qt and it's QSslSocket which uses OpenSsl.
The plan was to publish that application under GPL.
During this discussion I showed some parts oft it and somebody noticed by chance that my Windows installer included OpenSsl and my GPL application.
He pointed out that there is a legal problem and shipping both together could violate either GPL or OpenSsl license.
It took me some time to understand that problem. There are simply 2 conflicting paragraphs in the licenses.
I thought "Okay the GPL or the OpenSsl guys should know about that problem and find a solution."
After some research I noticed that they were both building their violins instead.
GNU recommends to use GNU tls instead of OpenSsl which would mean rewriting parts of Qt at the moment
and OpenSsl recommends asking everyone who contributed in the gpled code, for permission to modify the GPL.

What is all that fanatic license chaos about ?
Qt, OpenSsl and my application are all os-software we have the same intention regarding freedom and all that.
Imho I should be easy for the GPL guys and the OpenSsl guys to talk to each other and simply solve that problem.

All those open source fanatics should get back to the really important problems.

Maybe I have over interpreted the comic a bit, bu that's what came to my mind while looking at it.
It could have been a caricature, of many open source people as well.

Sebstian

PS:

"help, I have X computer problem."
"[Okay|I'm busy], but you wouldn't have that problem if you used X free software that I recommended instead."
"I use software that works, give the free software thing a rest already!"
"You're the one who has computer problems"

I've been banned from 2 irc-channels for doing exactly that.

[endolith]

I'd say that we should be freaking out about Google

The company that runs all their shit on open source software, contributing lots of their own code back to the community, produces an open source browser and OS, and donates millions of dollars to students so that they can write open source software?

Yeah, they're sooooo evil. Grab your pitchforks!

[spekkeh]

As long as it's not postscript / LaTeX. Seriously, give THAT a rest. It's very popular under business students now, because they found out everybody's only been using it to look smug anyway. Contemporary word processors can handle math equations just fine, and the rest even better. Hell Office 2010 finally has ligatures working if that was the only reason you were clinging on to it.

[mannjess]

Sure you can just pirate a copy of Microsoft Office or Photoshop. Then again, why deal with the hassle of piracy when OpenOffice and GIMP are free, and quite literally are every bit as efficient.

I was totally with you until the Photoshop/Gimp comparison. You should really stop using that example to further your case. It doesn't. GIMP isn't even in the same league as PS. It works fine for small tasks, but for anything else it's a joke, occasionally buggy, and with a horrendous UI to boot. I wish, so badly, this wasn't true... but it is. Photoshop is the most requested piece of software on linux for a reason, and it's not that us linux users are unaware of the open source alternatives.

[CLAVDIVS]

Am I the only one bothered by references to autism as if it were a character flaw?

[wackojacko1138]

Proprietary document formats and terrible privacy policies have what to do with each other now? It doesn't follow.

[endolith]

when my friends want a file, I'll give it to them and leave them to discover that it is on FLAC or OGG or 5.1 mp3. When they complain, I tell 'em it was free.

You have friends?

having Micro$oft Turd

Your hilariously witty word substitution has convinced me of the merit of your arguments, and converted me wholly from a Microsoft fanboy to a dedicated open source disciple.

People who use facebook don't talk to each other in real life. They don't make plans in real life.

After installing Ubuntu, my social life declined. I spent all of my time trying to maintain my computer, dealing with bugs and lost data, and trying to find substitutions for software I needed that would actually run on my OS. After joining Facebook, I started being invited to parties, shows, and dates again. YMMV, I guess.

They are trying to replace all social networking tools, but more importantly they are trying to decentralise them.

The idea of a decentralized social network is great, but

1. It already exists
2. Running your own web server? Seriously? So it's like Facebook, but your friends' profiles are offline 90% of the time?

Building something directly into the browser with distributed storage seems like a much better idea than standalone web server software.

Then again, why deal with the hassle of piracy when OpenOffice and GIMP are free, and quite literally are every bit as efficient

Because they aren't. I'm surprised at how far OpenOffice has come, and I use it often without grumbling too much, but it's still just a half-assed clone of Microsoft Office. If Microsoft released their software open source, there would be absolutely no reason to use OpenOffice or Ubuntu anymore. They aren't better in any way, they're just "freer".

[BentFranklin]

There was an alternative to .doc in 2003? Wow! I was 16 and still writing Watership Down fan fictions on a windows 98 computer. I think most people were (16 and writing WDFF on Win98)

I guess I was pretty late to catch on to open source. I blame dial up.


Guys, surely it's much easier to send everything as .doc? No? You can read it in open office and others so what's the problem?

I mean take my CVs.. I send them .doc.. I need the companies to be able to read them.. what format do you want me to use? Also I'm not necessarily sending them to people who have any interest in all this... so I need them to be familiar with it and know what to do with it.
I used to sent everything as html files, but I found people got confused and thought they were being shown a website.

Genuine question.. I'm totally in the dark about this and don't want to be obliviously using an immoral file extension.

When I receive a resume (or anything) in doc format the sender gets a -1. It's a less polished, more naive, way of doing things. Send in pdf format to appear more professional. There are lots of pdf-writing printer drivers to choose from.

[A'Tuin]

2. Running your own web server? Seriously? So it's like Facebook, but your friends' profiles are offline 90% of the time?

Not sure, about your number 1 point can't find enough information about that software but having looked at Diaspora I can find anything its realy lacks.

As for no2 The diaspora team will offer turnkey servers like wordpress. So they will provide with a private area on one of their servers, but you will always be able to use a server of your own.

[SirMustapha]

I agree with the first two panels of today's comic.

[nowfocus]

Okay, so social networking sites that care nothing about your privacy continuing to care nothing about your privacy is bad, yes. But making a big deal out of a .doc file, when your precious OpenOffice can open the damn thing, and any halfway decent e-mail client will let you automatically preview that shit still makes you a douche bag who's just trying to be different and probably autistic or something. Also, OpenOffice is trash. The word processor is tolerable, their attempt at Excel is laughably pathetic though.

Really? You hate Calc that much? What features are missing? I've been using it for years and never noticed any major differences from Excel, except that most of the spreadsheet functions use a slightly different format. What are the features you are missing? I would have expected more complaints about the slideshow program or the weird-ass margin sizes on the word processor's default templates.

Note: The above is not actually obnoxious Socratic posturing. I'm genuinely curious.

I'm big into open source, but I have to agree Calc is often insufficient. The row/column maximums are far below those of excel, and when openning large tab-delimited files it just sort of skips some rows. I've learn to live with it, but if I can ever get Office back (reinstalled OS, they didn't send disk), I'm going to put it on with Wine.

[hatten]

/me doesn't have facebook either.

I send in all my files in .txt, but when my teacher tries to open them it opens with wordpad, that doesn't have linebreaks on by default (and it's impossible to find in the drop down menu called format).

[kerohazel]

Vorbis stuff

Two things in Vorbis's favor that you neglected to mention:
- It's not patent-encumbered.
- Low-bitrate Vorbis KILLS just about every other audio format out there. It's awesome for streaming on less-than-great connections.

Not that I disagree about any of the points you made, though.