0800: "Beautiful Dream"

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danielnairn
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Re: "Beatiful Dream" discussion (#800)

Postby danielnairn » Fri Oct 01, 2010 8:17 pm UTC

tetromino wrote:Women spend hundreds of dollars on overpriced clothing and personal grooming that men - if they even notice - often don't care much about.
Men spend hundreds of dollars on overpriced gadgets and consumer electronics that women - if they even notice - often don't care much about.

Both behaviors are more about showing off to one's own gender (and satisfying the urge to consume drilled into us since childhood) than about attracting a mate of the opposite sex.


Honestly, a lot of times, men and women do this to impress their own gender. I get pretty sick of this conversation between women: "You look so beautiful today!" "Not as pretty as you. I'm so ugly. And fat." "No you're not! I'm the ugly one. And fat." "No you're not! You're gorgeous! I'm the one that's...."
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Re: "Beautiful Dream" discussion (#800)

Postby DamnedHeathen » Fri Oct 01, 2010 8:44 pm UTC

Fuck. I lost twenty dollars and my self respect.

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Re: "Beautiful Dream" discussion (#800)

Postby SpringLoaded12 » Fri Oct 01, 2010 8:53 pm UTC

I never want to meet either of the groups of people the girl described. Although TBH, at first I thought "The Game" was the one that everyone keeps losing, except that Randall freed us from it way back when.
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Re: "Beautiful Dream" discussion (#800)

Postby darktalon » Fri Oct 01, 2010 8:57 pm UTC

"Do not discuss The Rules with your therapist" presumably because they know their ideas wouldn't survive contact with a trained psychologist.

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Re: "Beautiful Dream" discussion (#800)

Postby bmonk » Fri Oct 01, 2010 9:16 pm UTC

What if you grew up liking both "The Giving Tree" and "The Metamorphosis"?

danix wrote:
Elvish Pillager wrote:I think what we all want to know is, What happens if you play The Game by The Rules?

I asked Joshua. He said that the only winning move is not to play. :lol:


My thought exactly. Get out of my mind, danix!

I'd also note that one advantage of celibacy is that you no longer have to play the Game--and you have a whole new set of Rules, ones that make sense.
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Re: "Beautiful Dream" discussion (#800)

Postby Scrambles, the death dealer » Fri Oct 01, 2010 10:40 pm UTC

one shouldn't confuse "The Game" with "The Rules of The Game"

the first is a somewhat fictional expose on the PUA community the second is a how to book written by the same author.

the actual "techniques" in the second book can be summed up easily as "get a hair cut, some new clothing and don't worship women; they don't like that. There are plenty of fish in the sea, she's not special. Also actually talk to women, try that."

from the difference between the two books it seems that the elaborate techniques are more dumbo's feather than anything.

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Re: "Beautiful Dream" discussion (#800)

Postby fictiveLaark » Fri Oct 01, 2010 11:49 pm UTC

Does this comic imply that the advice given in the rules and the game works?

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Re: "Beautiful Dream" discussion (#800)

Postby Techrocket9 » Sat Oct 02, 2010 12:30 am UTC

Metamorphosis = worst book ever.

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Re: "Beautiful Dream" discussion (#800)

Postby The Boz » Sat Oct 02, 2010 12:34 am UTC

I simply MUST have a reply in this comic's thread. It features Shel, so I simply MUST say that I like it.
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Re: "Beautiful Dream" discussion (#800)

Postby EmptySet » Sat Oct 02, 2010 1:19 am UTC

TurboJudas wrote:The Game and the Rules are completely incompatible with each other. Unless you like playing power games against each other ALL NIGHT!


Seems compatible to me. I mean, just looking at The Rules on Wikipedia, it seems like half of them revolve around power games and/or passive-aggressive behaviour. The other half involve cultishly following the Rules even if your friends, family, and psychologist tell you they're ridiculous.

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Re: "Beautiful Dream" discussion (#800)

Postby ShifterCat » Sat Oct 02, 2010 5:42 am UTC

The really alarming thing about The Rules is that it's basically encouraging women to seek out stalker-types. Acting cool, evasive, and inaccessible is generally read as "I don't like you very much" behaviour -- and yet the authors insist that a guy who persists despite these signals is not pushy or clueless but "Mr. Right". That's more than bad relationship advice -- it's verging on dangerous.

Re. The Game: the book itself is an expose of Pick-Up Artists. It certainly describes their techniques in detail, and discusses how they're effective in some ways, but Neil Strauss is not out to portray Mystery et al. as people to be emulated. I mean, the book opens in a mansion littered with empty bottles and used condoms, with one of the PUAs screaming about how he wants to die.

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Re: "Beautiful Dream" discussion (#800)

Postby ninestraycats » Sat Oct 02, 2010 5:40 pm UTC

Loved it!!

As some have already said, 'The Game' provides one real good tip, "be confident" and "be interesting," ideas so obvious I'm amazed it made such an impact. I mean, who wants to hang out with a boring mope at a bar?

And didn't it downplay physical attraction? If you lock eyes with someone and it's clear she's interested, the hard part's over, just go and talk about who the fuck cares, dance for a bit, enjoy each other's company, and go fuck (or make a date for later if the conversations was that enjoyable). Why in the world do 650 Amazon voters consider this book so worthy it's got a 4.5 star rating?

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Re: "Beautiful Dream" discussion (#800)

Postby crimsonchin » Sat Oct 02, 2010 8:27 pm UTC

I think other people have basically said it, but so that it's in my own words: don't judge the book "The Game" by the people who claim to practice it. Actually, you probably shouldn't judge them either, but I'll deal with that next paragraph. My main point being that The Game is an amazing story; it's about a loser becoming more confident and going on crazy adventures (including going to a country that doesn't officially exist), and about the people who do live the pick-up artist lifestyle.

As for the people who claim to practice it... from where I'm standing it seems like the book tries to tackle the problem of attraction. You can be a perfectly nice guy, in fact on paper you can be a perfect match for a girl, but if she doesn't feel anything for you then nothing's going to happen. Attraction isn't rational, so if there's a way for us nerdy types to cheat it then is that so wrong? Just to get over the initial approach/attraction/avoiding the friend zone part, the relationship part is different. Not that I claim to be able to act like the guys in The Game or anything, just that I wouldn't say no if someone said they could teach me.

Oh and finally to the person trying to be clever about how there was no 404 comic, we've been over this, comic 409 was a double to make up for it. There HAS been 800 comics.

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Re: "Beautiful Dream" discussion (#800)

Postby rcox1 » Sat Oct 02, 2010 9:58 pm UTC

crimsonchin wrote:I think other people have basically said it, but so that it's in my own words: don't judge the book "The Game" by the people who claim to practice it. Actually, you probably shouldn't judge them either, but I'll deal with that next paragraph. My main point being that The Game is an amazing story; it's about a loser becoming more confident and going on crazy adventures (including going to a country that doesn't officially exist), and about the people who do live the pick-up artist lifestyle.

...You can be a perfectly nice guy, in fact on paper you can be a perfect match for a girl, but if she doesn't feel anything for you then nothing's going to happen. Attraction isn't rational, so if there's a way for us nerdy types to cheat it then is that so wrong? Just to get over the initial approach/attraction/avoiding the friend zone part, the relationship part is different. ...


Attraction is not rational, and so there is no basis to say that one is a match on paper, c.f. xkcd#55. A great deal of attraction, at least for the young, is social. How your friends think are cute, who you're parent think are bad, who has money, who will put out.

Not every guy has the same interest in sx. The sad thing about book fo the ilk of 'The Game' is that these guys are doing all these things not because that is who they are, but because they want sex and can't get sex, or, more distressingly, are told that they are expected to have lots of sex with lots of people, and therefore need to do these things even if this not what they want. It is just telling a woman that she is expected to get married, and she has to be that person even if that is not what she wants.

There may be a small set of guys who are can't get sex, or a small set of grils who can't find a husband. What I actually believe is that people over constrain themselves. One has to have a girl with a certain hair color, or a guy who drives a certain car, or a girl that will sleep with you on the first date, or a gu that likes to spend his money on you. It is this over constraint that creates a promotes a need for these types of books. Normal, healthy, people can have fun relationships without playing games. Maybe not at the levels they have been brainwashed into believing is normal. Maybe not relationships with people they believe they should have, but real relationships never the less.

And in all my time it has never been the interest of self confidence that is the issue. It has only been the awareness. Be aware of pople around you. Be aware that they are real people and not just flesh robots to be challenged or used. They have interests, that even though they may not be your intests, are valid. OTOH you can't feign interest in something you really find silly.Decide if a person is not attractive because they are not attractive to you, or simply not attractive enough to be in the movies. None of this has anything to do with picking up a girl the first night you are a college, or marring a guy. It has to do with compassion and not being a dick.

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Re: "Beautiful Dream" discussion (#800)

Postby krucifi » Sun Oct 03, 2010 12:49 am UTC

SirMustapha wrote:
krucifi wrote:ermm.... this is comic 799.... why do people keep saying its his 800th?


Nobody said this is the 800th comic: people said it's comic 800, i.e., the comic numbered 800. Pointing out the "missing" comic 404 does not make you special.


pointing out that i pointed out that comic 404 doesn't exist, doesn't make you special either. and anyway i was only pointing it out because people were expecting epicness for this comic. one can only hope that mondays comic will contain said epicness... good day to you sah!!!
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Re: "Beatiful Dream" discussion (#800)

Postby keiyakins » Sun Oct 03, 2010 1:10 am UTC

Don't Discuss The Rules with Your Therapist.

This sends up /serious/ red flags. Because it's probably encouraging self-destructive behavior, or such...

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Re: "Beautiful Dream" discussion (#800)

Postby keiyakins » Sun Oct 03, 2010 1:25 am UTC

fictiveLaark wrote:Does this comic imply that the advice given in the rules and the game works?

Actually, they seem to match. From what I can tell, they're both trying to train you to force overly stereotypical behavior, which would likely include attraction to the opposite overly stereotypical behavior.

By the way (hey! Let's let the internet be my therapist, there's no way THAT can go wrong!) does anyone have a general set of 'rules' to fall back on for generic social situations to fall back on when paniced/scared that will at least get you out to calm down without upsetting anyone too much? >_> (This talk of 'The Rules' makes me think of 'rules' in general. And yeah. Thinking out loud <_<)

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Re: "Beautiful Dream" discussion (#800)

Postby BioTube » Sun Oct 03, 2010 3:28 am UTC

Make an excuse to get away from the group, such as needing to take a leak.
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Re: "Beautiful Dream" discussion (#800)

Postby SirMustapha » Sun Oct 03, 2010 4:27 am UTC

krucifi wrote:pointing out that i pointed out that comic 404 doesn't exist, doesn't make you special either.


I don't need to feel special; I just get annoyed with such gratuitous pedantry.


krucifi wrote:and anyway i was only pointing it out because people were expecting epicness for this comic. one can only hope that mondays comic will contain said epicness...


I wouldn't have great hopes:

http://www.xkcd.com/500/
http://www.xkcd.com/501/
http://www.xkcd.com/600/
http://www.xkcd.com/601/
http://www.xkcd.com/700/
http://www.xkcd.com/701/

Nothing epic there... Randall probably thinks that only those lowly, inferior "liberal arts majors" worry about those round numbers.

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Re: "Beautiful Dream" discussion (#800)

Postby StNowhere » Sun Oct 03, 2010 5:05 am UTC

SirMustapha wrote:
krucifi wrote:pointing out that i pointed out that comic 404 doesn't exist, doesn't make you special either.


I don't need to feel special; I just get annoyed with such gratuitous pedantry.


That's funny. If you enjoy watching Randall fail to live up to your expectations, that's one thing. But the fact that you keep coming back to post about it suggests you want someone to notice your displeasure, to make you feel superior because you aren't so easily pleased.

SirMustapha wrote:Nothing epic there... Randall probably thinks that only those lowly, inferior "liberal arts majors" worry about those round numbers.


I wasn't aware liberal arts majors could read numbers.

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Re: "Beautiful Dream" discussion (#800)

Postby Melkarion » Sun Oct 03, 2010 6:53 am UTC

StNowhere wrote:
I wasn't aware liberal arts majors could read numbers.


Reading numbers is easy... but who's to say what they really mean?

(I kid. I mean, it's obvious that the entire fabric of mathematics is a metaphor for the mutual alienation of semi-exclusive human philosophical paradigms, vis-a-vis the artificial distinctions and seperations between the purported number domains; consider the false dualism between the so-called "real" and "imaginary" groups, or the hierarchy inherent in the ascription of rationality and irrationality to various numbers. AmIright folks?)
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Re: "Beautiful Dream" discussion (#800)

Postby wiserd911 » Sun Oct 03, 2010 7:04 am UTC

In 2001 the followup book The Rules for Marriage: Time-Tested Secrets for Making Your Marriage Work was released in the midst of Fein's legal separation from her husband to whom she had been married for sixteen years....

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Re: "Beautiful Dream" discussion (#800)

Postby jfriesne » Sun Oct 03, 2010 8:09 am UTC

I can honestly say this is the first time I've ever felt sexually attracted to a stick figure.

Yowza!

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Re: "Beatiful Dream" discussion (#800)

Postby jfriesne » Sun Oct 03, 2010 8:18 am UTC

edbdqt wrote:He was scared. After all, 800 is a BIG ROUND number!!!!!


Little known fact about Randall, he has an extra finger on each hand -- that might explain his unique drawing style. In any case, expect a real doozy of a strip when we get to #1152.

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Re: "Beautiful Dream" discussion (#800)

Postby Elvish Pillager » Sun Oct 03, 2010 12:42 pm UTC

Melkarion wrote:(I kid. I mean, it's obvious that the entire fabric of mathematics is a metaphor for the mutual alienation of semi-exclusive human philosophical paradigms, vis-a-vis the artificial distinctions and seperations between the purported number domains; consider the false dualism between the so-called "real" and "imaginary" groups, or the hierarchy inherent in the ascription of rationality and irrationality to various numbers. AmIright folks?)

You're right, of course, but it would be funnier if you attacked the mathematical concepts themselves instead of the terminology that humans have stupidly been using for them. :P
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Re: "Beautiful Dream" discussion (#800)

Postby StNowhere » Sun Oct 03, 2010 2:53 pm UTC

Melkarion wrote:
StNowhere wrote:
I wasn't aware liberal arts majors could read numbers.


Reading numbers is easy... but who's to say what they really mean?

(I kid. I mean, it's obvious that the entire fabric of mathematics is a metaphor for the mutual alienation of semi-exclusive human philosophical paradigms, vis-a-vis the artificial distinctions and seperations between the purported number domains; consider the false dualism between the so-called "real" and "imaginary" groups, or the hierarchy inherent in the ascription of rationality and irrationality to various numbers. AmIright folks?)


You forgot to mention that the double cone, which can be used to represent any of the conical sections that form a large part of analytical geometry, take on a Freudian aspect when we view them as two opposing, yet touching, phalluses; the opposition representing an eternal conflict within the mathematician to reject Oedipal desires (not necessarily toward their mothers, but probably yours), as well as the contact, which represents a latent homosexuality which pervades Euclidean reality.

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Re: "Beautiful Dream" discussion (#800)

Postby theflatworm » Sun Oct 03, 2010 4:57 pm UTC

Melkarion wrote:(I kid. I mean, it's obvious that the entire fabric of mathematics is a metaphor for the mutual alienation of semi-exclusive human philosophical paradigms, vis-a-vis the artificial distinctions and seperations between the purported number domains; consider the false dualism between the so-called "real" and "imaginary" groups, or the hierarchy inherent in the ascription of rationality and irrationality to various numbers. AmIright folks?)


I agree with this post.

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Re: "Beautiful Dream" discussion (#800)

Postby theflatworm » Sun Oct 03, 2010 5:02 pm UTC

Melkarion wrote:
Reading numbers is easy... but who's to say what they really mean?


"2+2 = 10... in base 4!"

Edit: In all seriousness, the purity of mathematics and its seeming essential 'rightness' stems almost entirely from its abstraction. It is easy to design an abstract system which contains no uncertainties and no contradictions when it does not have to concern itself too closely with the 'real' or, more accurately, the world as perceived by the human senses, sometimes mediated by non-human sensory instruments. However, the further mathematics delves into reality (which I'm using to mean 'the perceived world' as previously defined) the more one finds that the purity and validity of the foundations of mathematical constructs are entirely subjective and debatable. Even the very concept of oneness is philosophically difficult. Where does one take an object in the real world to begin and end? How does one even go about proving that it exists when our reality is little more than a set of blips on a sonar screen, and the underlying, objective object is fundamentally unknowable.

This is not, of course, to undermine the immense practical importance of mathematics. Just to point out that, whatever some mathematicians would like to think, theirs is not the language of God, but rather just another vague translation.

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Re: "Beautiful Dream" discussion (#800)

Postby theflatworm » Sun Oct 03, 2010 6:13 pm UTC

StNowhere wrote:You forgot to mention that the double cone, which can be used to represent any of the conical sections that form a large part of analytical geometry, take on a Freudian aspect when we view them as two opposing, yet touching, phalluses; the opposition representing an eternal conflict within the mathematician to reject Oedipal desires (not necessarily toward their mothers, but probably yours), as well as the contact, which represents a latent homosexuality which pervades Euclidean reality.



Witness http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... -feminists . Alas, it seems your parody is, in some cases at least, less crazy than reality.

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Re: "Beautiful Dream" discussion (#800)

Postby EthanW » Sun Oct 03, 2010 9:36 pm UTC

The techniques TALKED about in The Game work, however The Game is a novel, not a reference guide.

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Re: "Beautiful Dream" discussion (#800)

Postby bmonk » Sun Oct 03, 2010 9:47 pm UTC

DorkRawk wrote:Back in my single days I had a lot of people try to tell me "tricks" to pick up girls and stuff like that. The problem with these "rules" and "secrets to the game" or whatever is that it makes people think of a relationship as some sort of contest where you have to outsmart or trick the other person involved, rather than working with them.

If you're looking to just get laid, yea I'm sure there are people out there for whom these strategies would produce success, but if you actually want a decent relationship try just communicating with the other person. Quit trying to "lifehack" everything.


I'd have to fully agree. What's more, what do you get by "pretending" or acting like something you are not?

1. If you are close enough to grow into the person you are acting, you might actually grow. Is this someone you want to be? Then maybe it's a viable option. If not, see no. 2.

2. If you are not going to grow into that person, anyone you "catch" this way won't actually be someone who likes you as you are, but the person you are pretending to be. In the long run, either you will have to reboot the relationship, starting from the premise that you lied, or you will fail. Neither is a particularly good (or easy) outcome.

3. If you are not interested in a possible long-term relationship, well, I feel sorry for you--and even sorrier for the people you hurt along the way.
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Re: "Beautiful Dream" discussion (#800)

Postby edbdqt » Sun Oct 03, 2010 10:41 pm UTC

I found "The Rules" on Wikpedia as per a previous poster. My personal favorite:
"ALWAYS end the date first"

1. Seriously, who does this? What if the guy tries to end the date first? "Sorry, I have an early me---", "No, I"M ENDING THIS DATE RIGHT NOW!!!" "ok, uh, let's do this, uh, again sometime??"
2. If a woman doesn't follow this rule, does her date go on interminably? My wife and I didn't follow this rule. Have we been on a ten year date with 4 kids and a wedding?

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Re: "Beautiful Dream" discussion (#800)

Postby Headrushed » Mon Oct 04, 2010 12:02 am UTC

I'm a douchebag loser who only cares about himself and not other people, and an ass, and a jerk, and /other adjective people have used so far. BUT i don't read "the game," because...

ummmm...

I'm completely illiterate. It's more of a gift than a curse. I trained my parakeet to take my dictations, don't ask me how.

Anyways, how can i get in on this "The Rules" action? Because I'm screwed if all the shallow girls are gone, and only people who genuinely care about other people are left :(

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Re: "Beautiful Dream" discussion (#800)

Postby Vaskafdt » Mon Oct 04, 2010 12:03 am UTC

SirMustapha wrote:...
I wouldn't have great hopes:
...
http://www.xkcd.com/601/
http://www.xkcd.com/700/
...
Nothing epic there... Randall probably thinks that only those lowly, inferior "liberal arts majors" worry about those round numbers.


I will have to disagree. 601 is as epic as they come.

and 700 has the god damn Batman!
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Re: 0800: "Beautiful Dream"

Postby QueenofCups » Fri Oct 08, 2010 2:18 am UTC

I am actually related to one of the authors of The Rules. Fortunately for me only one of the women is my cousin through marriage so I did not share blood relatives to inherit the stupid from.

Note: She gave all the women who attended her daughter's 2nd birthday party a copy of The Rules. She gave it to married and single women alike. I was 12 when I got the book, I wasn't thinking about getting married just yet.

At one of my parties she had an in depth interview with all the adults so that she could write Rules 3 for the married couples. I made it a point to never see her again.

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Re: 0800: "Beautiful Dream"

Postby transatlantic » Sat Oct 09, 2010 3:18 am UTC

Alt text: "Lucky. In MY dream, all the people who grew up loving The Giving Tree paired up with all the students who had weird dreams after reading The Metamorphosis. That one was more confusing."


Hey! That's me!

Both of it.

No wonder I've spent so much time alone.

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Re: 0800: "Beautiful Dream"

Postby RoarkIsAwesome » Sun Oct 24, 2010 6:40 pm UTC

Search the game and the rules on encyclopedia Dramatica. Thats what he's talking about.


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