0817: "Mutual"

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Re: 0817: "Mutual"

Postby keithc » Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:43 pm UTC

TheGrammarBolshevik wrote:Personally I like that he controverted "sexist" but not "asshole."

that's just men for you

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Re: 0817: "Mutual"

Postby keithc » Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:48 pm UTC

cjmcjmcjmcjm wrote:Also, is anyone else reminded of this, especially after reading about mamihlapinatapai?
Pink Floyd wrote:Strangers passing in the street
By chance two separate glances meet
And I am you and what I see is me.
And do I take you by the hand
And lead you through the land
And help me understand
The best I can.

Pedantically, it was Roger Waters who wrote the words and the whole band the music.

But it does give me a place to ask something that's been bugging me for a time now. Has anyone else noticed that a lot of people are pretty much saying the same as music "fans" who always claim the early stuff was best (that is, before the band really learned how to play)?

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Re: 0817: "Mutual"

Postby The Mighty Thesaurus » Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:59 pm UTC

It's also before the band learned the appeal of a more mainstream audience.
Ghavrel wrote:Or people who took any class in the Humanities.

Because that classics course I took in second year really makes me qualified to analyse art.
LE4dGOLEM wrote:your ability to tell things from things remains one of your skills.
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Re: 0817: "Mutual"

Postby Vaskafdt » Thu Nov 11, 2010 10:18 pm UTC

TheGrammarBolshevik wrote:
callmenuge wrote:Re: "Why don't you talk to her about it?

Tried. No arguments can be won against a woman. Even if you win, you don't.

Welcome to the forums. Don't be a sexist asshole. People will like you better.


well. I didn't really find him much of an asshole.. he just sounded very young to me... I think his attitude towards women comes from his on insecurity. from his point of view he sees all women as trying to win some "argument," but that's just his inexperienced viewpoint. the argument itself most likely doesn't exist.

and besides.. one day he will realize there are no winners in arguments.. women only listen to themselves anyway.
unlike men who only listen to themselves also... err.

I thought this forum will at least try to be a bit more forgiving.. and not denounce and push away a new member who has a slightly different point of view.. even if it isn't a really nice one.
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Re: 0817: "Mutual"

Postby The Mighty Thesaurus » Thu Nov 11, 2010 10:23 pm UTC

We do not suffer fools gladly
LE4dGOLEM wrote:your ability to tell things from things remains one of your skills.
Weeks wrote:Not only can you tell things from things, you can recognize when a thing is a thing

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Re: 0817: "Mutual"

Postby TheGrammarBolshevik » Thu Nov 11, 2010 10:24 pm UTC

vaskafdt wrote:a slightly different point of view

I lol'd.
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Re: 0817: "Mutual"

Postby Sandry » Thu Nov 11, 2010 10:28 pm UTC

vaskafdt wrote:I thought this forum will at least try to be a bit more forgiving.. and not denounce and push away a new member who has a slightly different point of view.. even if it isn't a really nice one.

There are some points of view that push away many, many people. Like how having a sexist point of view and presenting that in public makes women uncomfortable.

We are really okay here with pointing out to people that holding a POV which is alienating to many people is actually not okay.

Comfort of 50% of the forums supersedes the comfort of one new guy, who will probably be better off down the road if he re-aligns his offensive-to-half-the-world viewpoint in the first place.
He does not spout ever more, new stupidities. He "diversifies his wrongness portfolio."
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Re: 0817: "Mutual"

Postby Box Boy » Thu Nov 11, 2010 11:05 pm UTC

Also, it's really fun.
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Re: 0817: "Mutual"

Postby Weeks » Thu Nov 11, 2010 11:07 pm UTC

Box Boy wrote:Also, it's really fun.
Heed this one's words, for he speaks truth
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Re: 0817: "Mutual"

Postby Vaskafdt » Thu Nov 11, 2010 11:14 pm UTC

Sandry wrote:
vaskafdt wrote:I thought this forum will at least try to be a bit more forgiving.. and not denounce and push away a new member who has a slightly different point of view.. even if it isn't a really nice one.

There are some points of view that push away many, many people. Like how having a sexist point of view and presenting that in public makes women uncomfortable.

We are really okay here with pointing out to people that holding a POV which is alienating to many people is actually not okay.

Comfort of 50% of the forums supersedes the comfort of one new guy, who will probably be better off down the road if he re-aligns his offensive-to-half-the-world viewpoint in the first place.



Thank you Sandry. I can dig that.


tho he was right about most women.. he just didn't know it's the same with most men as well..
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Re: 0817: "Mutual"

Postby Fin Archangel » Thu Nov 11, 2010 11:36 pm UTC

I've returned to the fora to say this:

Randall, please GTFO OF MY HEAD.

That is all.

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Re: 0817: "Mutual"

Postby Ghavrel » Thu Nov 11, 2010 11:49 pm UTC

The Mighty Thesaurus wrote:
Ghavrel wrote:Or people who took any class in the Humanities.

Because that classics course I took in second year really makes me qualified to analyse art.

You've conflated two parts of my post. The quotation you've given had nothing to do with analysis and everything to do with being exposed to various works of art.

If you took a classics course that didn't expose you to that theme, you ought to ask for your money back. Catullus, Horace, Vergil, Ovid, Callimachus, Sappho... All of them wrote astonishingly lyrical and moving works on unrequited love.

And honestly, any classics course worth its salt would have you doing much better analyses by semester's end than most of what I've seen in this thread.
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Re: 0817: "Mutual"

Postby callmenuge » Fri Nov 12, 2010 2:21 am UTC

Sandry wrote:
callmenuge wrote:Sexist? How is that sexist? It's true. Arguments with women are a lose-lose situation. I'm just saying that letting her win without letting her know that you let her win is the prudent choice with the best outcomes.

A paraphrase of your assertion reads: "All women are exactly the same and every single one responds to arguments in this specific negative way."

That is how your statement is sexist.

If this is the type of argument you are posing to women you see, it's no wonder you are "losing."


I meant girls that I am intere--Oh shi--you're right. I'm wrong D:

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Re: 0817: "Mutual"

Postby leftsquarebracket » Fri Nov 12, 2010 2:25 am UTC

This one hit kinda hard. Though my case is just one sided at this point.
Dammit; depression's back. sigh...

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Re: 0817: "Mutual"

Postby The Mighty Thesaurus » Fri Nov 12, 2010 2:42 am UTC

callmenuge:
Sandry wrote:If this is the type of argument you are posing to women you see, it's no wonder you are "losing."

Ghavrel: In that case, I agree with you.
LE4dGOLEM wrote:your ability to tell things from things remains one of your skills.
Weeks wrote:Not only can you tell things from things, you can recognize when a thing is a thing

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Re: 0817: "Mutual"

Postby Pfhorrest » Fri Nov 12, 2010 3:20 am UTC

To everyone posting the "wow I'm surprised nobody noticed the quantum mechanical / metaphysical implications of this comic": Yes. We did notice. And we all know that the rest of us noticed. And that it's well known enough amongst the kind of people who post here that it doesn't warrant mentioning.

You may as well post "wow I'm surprised nobody noticed that the way that each character is drawn within bubbles at the end of a trail of bubbles leading back to the head of the other character implies that the two characters are thinking about each other!" Yes, we all noticed that. That's part of the general background knowledge required to get the comic at all. Thanks.
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Re: 0817: "Mutual"

Postby Waterhouse » Fri Nov 12, 2010 3:41 am UTC

Dear Sirs:

I just registered on these forii to say, this epic thread used to be better back in the classic phase, around the first two pages or so. But something keeps drawing me back.

Thank you

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Re: 0817: "Mutual"

Postby TheGrammarBolshevik » Fri Nov 12, 2010 3:44 am UTC

…The fuck? You registered in 2007. You have 48 posts.
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Re: 0817: "Mutual"

Postby The Mighty Thesaurus » Fri Nov 12, 2010 3:52 am UTC

And I'm pretty sure that ought to be "foris"
LE4dGOLEM wrote:your ability to tell things from things remains one of your skills.
Weeks wrote:Not only can you tell things from things, you can recognize when a thing is a thing

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

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Re: 0817: "Mutual"

Postby Waterhouse » Fri Nov 12, 2010 4:05 am UTC

TheGrammarBolshevik wrote:…The fuck? You registered in 2007. You have 48 posts.

Dude, I was totally pulling your leg.

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Re: 0817: "Mutual"

Postby iroZn » Fri Nov 12, 2010 4:10 am UTC

I'd have to say that the guy is the one that actually exists because he has more thought bubbles!
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Re: 0817: "Mutual"

Postby TheGrammarBolshevik » Fri Nov 12, 2010 4:28 am UTC

Waterhouse wrote:
TheGrammarBolshevik wrote:…The fuck? You registered in 2007. You have 48 posts.

Dude, I was totally pulling your leg.

Stranger things have happened.
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Re: 0817: "Mutual"

Postby Waterhouse » Fri Nov 12, 2010 4:29 am UTC

The Mighty Thesaurus wrote:And I'm pretty sure that ought to be "foris"

We are the music makers. And we are the dreamers of dreams.

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Re: 0817: "Mutual"

Postby Ghavrel » Fri Nov 12, 2010 5:03 am UTC

The Mighty Thesaurus wrote:And I'm pretty sure that ought to be "foris"


Fora, unless you're expecting him to be putting it in the dative or something. :p
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Re: 0817: "Mutual"

Postby TheGrammarBolshevik » Fri Nov 12, 2010 5:06 am UTC

So long as we're being unnecessarily pedantic, why not?

I believe that was TMT's point, although Waterhouse's non-seriousness deflates it a fair amount.
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Re: 0817: "Mutual"

Postby phlip » Fri Nov 12, 2010 5:08 am UTC

I'm pretty sure it's "forodes", anyway.

Code: Select all

enum ಠ_ಠ {°□°╰=1, °Д°╰, ಠ益ಠ╰};
void ┻━┻︵​╰(ಠ_ಠ ⚠) {exit((int)⚠);}
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Re: 0817: "Mutual"

Postby Ghavrel » Fri Nov 12, 2010 5:12 am UTC

TheGrammarBolshevik wrote:So long as we're being unnecessarily pedantic, why not?


Well, because while correcting the proper plural "fora" for the completely erroneous "forii" (the singular of that would be forius, for those who care) makes some sense, expecting someone to put a noun into a certain case introduces an entirely foreign element of grammar. You wouldn't say "to the foris"; it's utterly redundant, since we use prepositions instead of declining our nouns. In other words, the former is an issue of vocabulary; the latter an issue of fundamental grammar.
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Re: 0817: "Mutual"

Postby The Mighty Thesaurus » Fri Nov 12, 2010 6:27 am UTC

scripsi in his foris

Oh, shit, I think I just used a preposition and declined a noun IN THE SAME GODDAMN SENTENCE. WHAT IS THE WORLD COMING TO?
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Weeks wrote:Not only can you tell things from things, you can recognize when a thing is a thing

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Re: 0817: "Mutual"

Postby Ghavrel » Fri Nov 12, 2010 6:29 am UTC

The Mighty Thesaurus wrote:scripsi in his foris

Oh, shit, I think I just used a preposition and declined a noun IN THE SAME GODDAMN SENTENCE. WHAT IS THE WORLD COMING TO?


Early Medieval Europe, if the texts I've had to deal with are any guess.
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Re: 0817: "Mutual"

Postby Paprika » Fri Nov 12, 2010 8:12 am UTC

Edit: Like most things that happen spontaneously in the middle of the night, I regretted this post the next morning. The first time is always a bit awkward. I've removed that which I felt to be excess to the thread (which was pretty much all of it). And I apologize if I might have insulted anyone, unintentionally or otherwise..

I feel that the second yin-yang is better because the original posture and positioning of the figures conveys Mamihlapinatapai...

Canned Soul wrote:This comic reminds me of the word "Mamihlapinatapai" of the Yaghan language, considered the "most succint word" by the Guinness Book of World Records. The word describes "a look shared by two people with each wishing that the other will initiate something that they both desire but which neither one wants to start."


...that much better, as well as appearing more balanced. However, the bacon yin-yang made me lol.

@wdrw: I'd like to thank you for opening up more dialogue in regards to the alt-text. I'm a bit of a novice regarding quantum mechanics so I did come to similar conclusions, however, I questioned if I'd interpreted it correctly. You're post cleared up my doubts.
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Re: 0817: "Mutual"

Postby ołometer » Fri Nov 12, 2010 10:19 am UTC

For me, it only becomes really good _with_ the subtext.

"A universe that needed someone to observe it in order to collapse it into existence would be a pretty sorry universe indeed."

How many people do love each other but don't now that they self love the other? What would happen if someone tells you about your love?

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Re: 0817: "Mutual"

Postby SirMustapha » Fri Nov 12, 2010 2:41 pm UTC

Ghavrel wrote:
webgiant wrote:The only people who would find fault with this comic are those who have never experienced love. Or are in the middle of a horrible divorce/breakup.


Or people who took any class in the Humanities.


But that is a LIBERAL ART! You have to do PROPER SCIENCE, like Physics and Maths! And if you sink your head low enough into the swamp of "MY science is better than all the other sciences because it has lots of numbers!", ]i]THEN[/i] you'll be completely inept and finally able to see the "genius" in this comic!

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Re: 0817: "Mutual"

Postby eran_rathan » Fri Nov 12, 2010 6:43 pm UTC

SirMustapha wrote:
Ghavrel wrote:
webgiant wrote:The only people who would find fault with this comic are those who have never experienced love. Or are in the middle of a horrible divorce/breakup.


Or people who took any class in the Humanities.


But that is a LIBERAL ART! You have to do PROPER SCIENCE, like Physics and Maths! And if you sink your head low enough into the swamp of "MY science is better than all the other sciences because it has lots of numbers!", ]i]THEN[/i] you'll be completely inept and finally able to see the "genius" in this comic!


You've devolved to shouting :cry: This makes me sad, because I actually occasionally enjoy your rants, as an interesting push-back against the GOOMHR goobers (alliteration and assonance for the win!), as well as providing critical commentary that I find tends to deepen the meaning of each of the comics.

So, please, don't shout. Calm and well-reasoned hating is much better than emotional outbursts.
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Re: 0817: "Mutual"

Postby duckshirt » Fri Nov 12, 2010 8:04 pm UTC

Is there any reason this just popped up in my RSS feed again? Is there a modification to this comic?
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Re: 0817: "Mutual"

Postby SirMustapha » Sat Nov 13, 2010 11:34 am UTC

eran_rathan wrote:You've devolved to shouting :cry: This makes me sad, because I actually occasionally enjoy your rants, as an interesting push-back against the GOOMHR goobers (alliteration and assonance for the win!), as well as providing critical commentary that I find tends to deepen the meaning of each of the comics.

So, please, don't shout. Calm and well-reasoned hating is much better than emotional outbursts.


That was no emotional outburst. I was being 100% sarcastic, and the "shouting" was just more sarcasm.

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Re: 0817: "Mutual"

Postby Paprika » Sun Nov 14, 2010 7:39 am UTC

Ghavrel wrote:
webgiant wrote:The only people who would find fault with this comic are those who have never experienced love. Or are in the middle of a horrible divorce/breakup.


Or people who took any class in the Humanities.


I disagree with webgiant, I just wanted to add that I'm not sure empathy can be taught.
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Re: 0817: "Mutual"

Postby Paprika » Sun Nov 14, 2010 8:35 am UTC

SirMustapha wrote:
But that is a LIBERAL ART! You have to do PROPER SCIENCE, like Physics and Maths! And if you sink your head low enough into the swamp of "MY science is better than all the other sciences because it has lots of numbers!", ]i]THEN[/i] you'll be completely inept and finally able to see the "genius" in this comic!


SirMustapha wrote: That was no emotional outburst. I was being 100% sarcastic, and the "shouting" was just more sarcasm.



That you were being sarcastic was quite clear... This is ironic because your statement above reflects that you might have missed the sarcastic tone of the jokes and comics you are referring to. Which, yes, are a bit gratuitous.

It is not your critiques that I disagree with (entirely), merely the delivery of some of them.
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Re: 0817: "Mutual"

Postby monicaclaire » Sun Nov 14, 2010 3:52 pm UTC

It is simply A Mutual Dream.

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Re: 0817: "Mutual"

Postby SirMustapha » Sun Nov 14, 2010 5:27 pm UTC

Paprika wrote:That you were being sarcastic was quite clear... This is ironic because your statement above reflects that you might have missed the sarcastic tone of the jokes and comics you are referring to. Which, yes, are a bit gratuitous.


Firstly, I'm not sure I "missed" any sarcasm in the comics. One of the reasons that I can't just shut off xkcd from my life is the eerie, strong feeling that Randall means almost everything he says; even the most absurd jokes betray something he actually feels and is bitter about. I think the only case in which I'm quite sure Randall was "just joking" was the Fuck computational linguists comic, because he was jabbing his friend Ryan North.

Secondly, even if his comics are sarcastic, many of his fans aren't. My comment was more directed at certain kinds of fan than at Randall himself.

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Re: 0817: "Mutual"

Postby Paprika » Sun Nov 14, 2010 7:48 pm UTC

SirMustapha wrote:
Paprika wrote:That you were being sarcastic was quite clear... This is ironic because your statement above reflects that you might have missed the sarcastic tone of the jokes and comics you are referring to. Which, yes, are a bit gratuitous.


Firstly, I'm not sure I "missed" any sarcasm in the comics. One of the reasons that I can't just shut off xkcd from my life is the eerie, strong feeling that Randall means almost everything he says; even the most absurd jokes betray something he actually feels and is bitter about. I think the only case in which I'm quite sure Randall was "just joking" was the Fuck computational linguists comic, because he was jabbing his friend Ryan North.

Secondly, even if his comics are sarcastic, many of his fans aren't. My comment was more directed at certain kinds of fan than at Randall himself.


I cannot say for certain whether or not Randall is an intellectual elitist (in the grand scheme of things, does it really matter?). I can say this though: all jokes, the good ones at least, have at their core a kernel of truth. Especially jokes referencing stereotypes. To get upset that stereotypes exist or that someone might agree in part with the assertion of such stereotyping seems futile to me, but if you enjoy it, feel free to continue.

As for your second point, fair enough. Perhaps they overlooked the word 'sarcasm' amongst the list of self-describing terms within the title of the comic.
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