0821: "Five-Minute Comics: Part 3"

This forum is for the individual discussion thread that goes with each new comic.

Moderators: Moderators General, Prelates, Magistrates

Softfoot
Posts: 34
Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2010 4:11 am UTC
Location: Regional South Australia

Re: 0821: "Five-Minute Comics: Part 3"

Postby Softfoot » Sun Nov 21, 2010 4:25 am UTC

webgiant wrote:According to the book version of "The Lion, The Witch, and The Wardrobe", approximately 40 years go by in the space of four minutes, or roughly 6 seconds a year. This works out to 16 milliseconds our time for every day of Narnia time.


Problem: the time thing isn't consistent across the books. Actually, I'm not even sure that it's consistent within the "The Lion, The Witch, and The Wardrobe". Lucy goes in, visits with Tumnus, thinks she's been gone all afternoon, and gets back thinking they'll all have been looking for her. Edmund and Lucy go back, Lucy visits Tumnus, Edmund meets the white witch. Again, they return just after they left. All four go in, get involved with the campaign, win, grow up, and then return - again, just after they had left.

I always figured that they returned the moment after they left. Which would mean you could set up the search, and it would return a result the moment after you set it up.

Unfortunately I see a problem with having wiring connected across the border.

User avatar
StNowhere
Posts: 251
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2010 7:24 am UTC

Re: 0821: "Five-Minute Comics: Part 3"

Postby StNowhere » Sun Nov 21, 2010 6:36 am UTC

Pfhorrest wrote:
StNowhere wrote:
Pfhorrest wrote:
BlueNight wrote:It follows that Charn had a sacrificed Son of God, and Jadis was the Anti-Him of that world.

Wouldn't it follow that God(/Jesus/Aslan/[Charn-equivalent]) lost the battle in that world, since Jadis successfully ruined it? Doesn't seem like the kind of message C.S. Lewis would want to convey.


I suppose I'm not exactly sure what you mean here (but I am curious). I think I remember reading elsewhere that Lewis was a faithful believer in the choice of salvation. Jadis was always capable of being redeemed; she simply seems to have rejected every chance. Seems like exactly the message Lewis would want to convey.

My point was not about Jadis' own salvation but about the salvation of her world. If, as BlueNight suggests, Jadis was the Antichrist of Charn, then the fact that she won the battle there and destroyed that world seems... un-Christian. Shouldn't the Jesaslan of Charn have defeated her?


Was Jadis the only one responsible for the destruction of Charn? She may have used the Word, but how did their society, and the monarchy in particular, come to devolve to such a point where one would even consider using it? I always got the impression, too (though it has been years since I read the books), that the war on Charn was nearly a total war, with everyone choosing sides. If so, the world of Charn was complicit in its destruction. Jesaslan was never sent to save humanity; he was sent to offer it to them.

Edit: I'm honestly not sure that made any sense. I'm not drunk, just a little tired. But that will have to do.

Softfoot
Posts: 34
Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2010 4:11 am UTC
Location: Regional South Australia

Re: 0821: "Five-Minute Comics: Part 3"

Postby Softfoot » Sun Nov 21, 2010 9:37 am UTC

StNowhere wrote:
Was Jadis the only one responsible for the destruction of Charn? She may have used the Word, but how did their society, and the monarchy in particular, come to devolve to such a point where one would even consider using it? I always got the impression, too (though it has been years since I read the books), that the war on Charn was nearly a total war, with everyone choosing sides. If so, the world of Charn was complicit in its destruction. Jesaslan was never sent to save humanity; he was sent to offer it to them.



Jadis didn't just speak the Word, she spoke the Deplorable Word. The people of Charn slowly led themselves to their own destruction - Diggory and Polly saw the people in the hall of Kings or whatever it was called, where the people at one end looked wise and kind, but as they looked further began to look cruel, hurtful and despairing. Across centuries, the kings and queens of Charn chose to rule through fear and chose power over justice. Jadis was proud to use the deplorable word - it proved she was more powerful than any other in her world.

User avatar
snowyowl
Posts: 464
Joined: Tue Jun 23, 2009 7:36 pm UTC

Re: 0821: "Five-Minute Comics: Part 3"

Postby snowyowl » Sun Nov 21, 2010 4:01 pm UTC

I think it's explained in one of the Narnia books, possibly Voyage Of The Dawn Treader, that the relative rate at which time passes is variable. Generally it's faster in Narnia than on Earth, but not always. At any rate, all the books together span the entire timeline of Narnia from Creation to Apocalypse, but only a few years on Earth, so Narnia is on average at least a thousand times faster.

As for the 119 pigs, perhaps we're meant to count them from 0 to 118. One of them has a neutronium house (element 0).
The preceding comment is an automated response.

orbik
Posts: 17
Joined: Sun Nov 21, 2010 7:06 pm UTC

Re: 0821: "Five-Minute Comics: Part 3"

Postby orbik » Sun Nov 21, 2010 7:32 pm UTC

Had to register just for this comment. :D

What do the cellphones need a sloped surface for? The vibrator is practically always an offset weighted rotor, and as long as the surface friction between the phone cover and the table isn't zero, the horizontal shifting of the phone's center of mass during the up and down phases already gives it motion in a constant direction. I was rather shocked to see Randall assume otherwise. :shock:

Norr
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun Nov 21, 2010 7:35 pm UTC

Re: 0821: "Five-Minute Comics: Part 3"

Postby Norr » Sun Nov 21, 2010 8:00 pm UTC

Time differential aside, I think the white witch would take care of cooling systems in return for suitable payment, should she still be alive.

User avatar
phillipsjk
Posts: 1213
Joined: Wed Nov 05, 2008 4:09 pm UTC
Location: Edmonton AB Canada
Contact:

Re: 0821: "Five-Minute Comics: Part 3"

Postby phillipsjk » Sun Nov 21, 2010 11:52 pm UTC

orbik wrote:What do the cellphones need a sloped surface for? The vibrator is practically always an offset weighted rotor, and as long as the surface friction between the phone cover and the table isn't zero, the horizontal shifting of the phone's center of mass during the up and down phases already gives it motion in a constant direction. I was rather shocked to see Randall assume otherwise. :shock:


I remember reading about a trick-box where a vibrating box drags its power source (possibly in paper form: that may be why the google-foo is weak).

However, I am still skeptical.

Even if the cell-phones do achieve some horizontal motion on a level surface, they can be avoided by walking perpendicular to their motion (or stepping on them).
Did you get the number on that truck?

jpk
Posts: 607
Joined: Sat Nov 13, 2010 7:33 am UTC

Re: 0821: "Five-Minute Comics: Part 3"

Postby jpk » Mon Nov 22, 2010 5:29 am UTC

fiveofoh wrote:
gairbheil wrote:I do think the Little Rock integration could be simplified somewhat. 9x should be good enough, since +c vs. Ferguson was overturned.

Seriously, all the best, Randall!

I think this is the threadwinner right here. Brilliant.


Agreed. Beautiful. And I think Tom Lehrer would agree...

User avatar
Eternal Density
Posts: 5579
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2008 12:37 am UTC
Contact:

Re: 0821: "Five-Minute Comics: Part 3"

Postby Eternal Density » Mon Nov 22, 2010 6:22 am UTC

JonnyS wrote:I think I read a study somewhere that said that people find multiple short jokes funnier than one long one.

Either that or it said people have short attention spans and don't like figuring out more complicated jokes. :lol: Either way, these are awesome.

By the by, been lurking for months, figured I'd finally make an account. Hope all is well soon, Randall, you're the best!
I misread this as 'multiple short-jokes' and... yeah. Ooops.
Play the game of Time! castle.chirpingmustard.com Hotdog Vending Supplier But what is this?
In the Marvel vs. DC film-making war, we're all winners.

webgiant
Posts: 252
Joined: Mon Aug 17, 2009 5:36 pm UTC

Re: 0821: "Five-Minute Comics: Part 3"

Postby webgiant » Mon Nov 22, 2010 6:50 am UTC

Softfoot wrote:
webgiant wrote:According to the book version of "The Lion, The Witch, and The Wardrobe", approximately 40 years go by in the space of four minutes, or roughly 6 seconds a year. This works out to 16 milliseconds our time for every day of Narnia time.


Problem: the time thing isn't consistent across the books. Actually, I'm not even sure that it's consistent within the "The Lion, The Witch, and The Wardrobe". Lucy goes in, visits with Tumnus, thinks she's been gone all afternoon, and gets back thinking they'll all have been looking for her. Edmund and Lucy go back, Lucy visits Tumnus, Edmund meets the white witch. Again, they return just after they left. All four go in, get involved with the campaign, win, grow up, and then return - again, just after they had left.

I always figured that they returned the moment after they left. Which would mean you could set up the search, and it would return a result the moment after you set it up.

Unfortunately I see a problem with having wiring connected across the border.


I figured our the variable time problem earlier:

webgiant wrote:Now, the annoying bit is that the time difference turns out to be a lot more variable than I thought. Lucy's first trip took less than 12 hours Earth time, and about four seconds Earth time. When all four of them went, the trip took years but only, again, four seconds. So when the warning light comes, you have no idea if the server shut down nine Narnian hours ago or nine Narnian centuries ago. ... I think the biggest problem will be a warning light, followed by it going out suddenly. You go to check, and find a large lion sitting on the shredded wreckage of your server farm. He says, "So I understand you've been trying to take advantage of my Narnia. By the way, I've reversed the time differential, it's now the year 4,000 on Earth, and everyone you know is dead."


Wiring through the Earth-Narnia "door" is pretty much impossible for more than seconds at a time: when Sons of Adam and Daughters of Eve return to Earth, the way they arrived in Narnia closes and cannot be used again.

So you're pretty much stuck with sticking the server in a bed of salt (so it doesn't put down roots the next time Aslan sings), installing a solar panel, and working out a streaming data transfer system which works in seconds.

Born2killx
Posts: 8
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2010 3:59 am UTC

Re: 0821: "Five-Minute Comics: Part 3"

Postby Born2killx » Mon Nov 22, 2010 6:56 am UTC

Also wouldn't the frequency of the signal in the wire change as it crosses the Earth/Narnia border?

Meem1029
Posts: 379
Joined: Wed Jul 21, 2010 1:11 am UTC

Re: 0821: "Five-Minute Comics: Part 3"

Postby Meem1029 » Mon Nov 22, 2010 1:30 pm UTC

Wouldn't it be easier to just go over there with the server, party for a couple hundred years, and then come back with a flash drive of data?
cjmcjmcjmcjm wrote:If it can't be done in an 80x24 terminal, it's not worth doing

User avatar
Cool Username
Posts: 23
Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 7:36 pm UTC

Re: 0821: "Five-Minute Comics: Part 3"

Postby Cool Username » Mon Nov 22, 2010 8:44 pm UTC

I actually enjoyed these comics more than... well, than the last year or so of xkcd. They make it clear that Randall's problem isn't not working enough on each comic, but perhaps that he's overthinking them. There are some real gems in here. Maybe he needs to start imposing more of those limits on himself. After all, restriction breeds creativity.

jbo5112
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2010 1:35 pm UTC

Re: 0821: "Five-Minute Comics: Part 3"

Postby jbo5112 » Tue Nov 23, 2010 6:00 pm UTC

Tyrannosaur wrote:i didn't get little rock until after the alt-text and looking back at it.

but then laughed so hard my roommate is worrying about me...


i wonder what you could calculate with the integral of little rock?


explanation of comic for unfortunate souls who didnt get little rock
Spoiler:
Integrate, as in calculus. The soldiers are putting up ∫ next to the school, to integrate it.
Before Eisenhower's order to integrate (desegregate, really) it was an all-white school.
After the official order to integrate the school, only 9 black students enrolled. They were called the "little rock nine" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Rock_Nine
taking the integral of "The Little Rock Nine" would produce "The Little Rock 9x + c"

Thanks, I just sat there wondering what the military was doing with a grappling hook and what 4.5x^2+cx had to do with anything when people mentioned integration being the key for the title (alt) text. I feel dumb now, especially since AP Calculus was stupid easy for me in high school. I have to hand it to Randall. His nerd jokes are almost always funny, even when it requires 5 minutes of googling/wikipedia.

MartPesk
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2010 8:07 pm UTC

Re: 0821: "Five-Minute Comics: Part 3"

Postby MartPesk » Wed Nov 24, 2010 8:11 pm UTC

Funny thing about the strontium comic(though probably not intentional),is that stront is the dutch word for shit,
so it's kinda ironic to have have the wolf say after strontium, "what is with this shit" :lol:
(made this account just for this post in fact, have been lurking for a loooong while)

DoMakeSayThink
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2010 9:46 pm UTC

Re: 0821: "Five-Minute Comics: Part 3"

Postby DoMakeSayThink » Fri Nov 26, 2010 1:43 pm UTC

I was quite interested to see the comment about Narnia computing. My old philosophy teacher actually did research in to ideas not too dissimilar. His PhD thesis can be found here: http://web.mac.com/mhogarth/Site/Public ... thesis.pdf

Go to page 69 to see the beginning of the discussion about computability, supertasks and crazy spacetimes :D

AttackOfThePolyhedrons
Posts: 1
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2010 8:03 am UTC

Re: 0821: "Five-Minute Comics: Part 3"

Postby AttackOfThePolyhedrons » Thu Dec 02, 2010 8:10 am UTC

http://i767.photobucket.com/albums/xx320/TDT11111/CENTRIFUGE.jpg

Just saying :3

User avatar
BlueNight
Posts: 270
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2007 3:59 am UTC
Location: Albuquerque
Contact:

Re: 0821: "Five-Minute Comics: Part 3"

Postby BlueNight » Tue Jul 12, 2011 8:58 am UTC

Pfhorrest wrote:My point was not about Jadis' own salvation but about the salvation of her world. If, as BlueNight suggests, Jadis was the Antichrist of Charn, then the fact that she won the battle there and destroyed that world seems... un-Christian. Shouldn't the Jesaslan of Charn have defeated her?


Short answer: no. She was destined to use the Deplorable Word and end her world, then travel to Narnia to be defeated and judged there, at the claws of Aslan.

Christian doctrine is the canonical history of the Earth in the Narnia multiverse. That Earth has an Israel descended from the nation rescued from Egypt by "I Am". The story of that Earth is the story of God's covenant with that Israel and Christ's covenant with that Earth's Church. We can presume the final end of that Earth matches Anglican eschatology of Lewis' time.

Narnia's apocalypse was different. Aslan brought an end to that world shortly after the deception of the crafty ape and the unwitting donkey.

Each world (universe?) in the Narnia multiverse is portrayed as a pool in the Wood Between The Worlds. Our trope-savvy storytelling minds might reasonably assume that each is a universe with its own cosmology, but possibly with more planets inhabited than just the main one. (Is the Earth of the Narnia books the Earth of the Perelandra Trilogy? The latter is also supposed to be Tolkien's Middle Earth, which makes it quite a crossover mashup! Also, Digory's uncle forged magic rings...)

Upon the unique end of each world, every unjudged sapient gets sorted into Heaven or Hell (and the Heavens all meet in the middle).

So in the universe of Charn, Jadis caused the immediate judgement of all souls except her own, due to their sudden death from the Deplorable Word. In all worlds of the Narnian multiverse, the Incarnation of the Logos is God Himself, omniscient and omnipotent. He would not have allowed Jadis to use the Deplorable Word if her doing so wasn't His plan to end the world of Charn. (Then we get into theodicy and the problem of pain on a multiversal level, but not here, please.)
---------
BlueNight

User avatar
BrianB
Posts: 94
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:50 pm UTC

Re: 0821: "Five-Minute Comics: Part 3"

Postby BrianB » Tue Jul 12, 2011 12:52 pm UTC

jbo5112 wrote:
Tyrannosaur wrote:i didn't get little rock until after the alt-text and looking back at it.

but then laughed so hard my roommate is worrying about me...


i wonder what you could calculate with the integral of little rock?


explanation of comic for unfortunate souls who didnt get little rock
Spoiler:
Integrate, as in calculus. The soldiers are putting up ∫ next to the school, to integrate it.
Before Eisenhower's order to integrate (desegregate, really) it was an all-white school.
After the official order to integrate the school, only 9 black students enrolled. They were called the "little rock nine" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Rock_Nine
taking the integral of "The Little Rock Nine" would produce "The Little Rock 9x + c"

Thanks, I just sat there wondering what the military was doing with a grappling hook and what 4.5x^2+cx had to do with anything when people mentioned integration being the key for the title (alt) text. I feel dumb now, especially since AP Calculus was stupid easy for me in high school. I have to hand it to Randall. His nerd jokes are almost always funny, even when it requires 5 minutes of googling/wikipedia.


I have to say I was confused too since integrating 9x+c yields (9/2)x^2+cx. That 9x+c is the integral makes sense.

And to all those who are *way* over-analyzing the Narnia thing (with the emphasis on "anal") the whole point was 5-minute comics, and I believe actually drawing the comic takes time. Add in some time to come up with a clever idea. Who the f*** cares if it isn't 100% accurate. The idea posed in the Narnia comic is still funny.

User avatar
addams
Posts: 10264
Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2010 4:44 am UTC
Location: Oregon Coast: 97444

Re: 0821: "Five-Minute Comics: Part 3"

Postby addams » Wed Jul 13, 2011 1:31 am UTC

Yeah. What an amazing gift to us from a person that had more important things on his mind than us.
Hey! The above remains true. Still:

"If one is pressed to explain this further, then one might draw an analogy
with special relativity by saying that computation rate can increase but never hit ℵ0
in the same way that particle speeds can never reach the speed of light. But is this a
good analogy? The fact that particles cannot break light speed is a contingent matter;
the absence of a speed limit in Newtonian theory makes it clear that it could have
been otherwise.
"
The above is from that philosophy paper. It is paired up with the poetry that follows.

And the days are not long enough
And the nights are not long enough
And life slips by like a field mouse
Not shaking the grass.
EZRA POUND


I think the poetry stands alone.

It bothers me when Religion and Science touch and the Philosophers get it wrong. We small and very large humans see particles that become waves and then become waves again. The Physics guys say, "Now we see it; Now we don't."
They say that some stuff blinks on and off and on, again. Some of it is spooky. It seems to me that some stuff does not go some where, else, it goes some when, else.

That is why I like the poetry.

It is wrong. Right? To be fair; I did not read the whole paper. The original poster must have read the whole thing.
I lost the link. I am not very good at computer stuff. The name of the paper follows:

PREDICTABILITY, COMPUTABILITY, AND
SPACETIME
MARK HOGARTH
Sidney Sussex College, Cambridge

It is a Math thing and I am not very good at Math.

Do you know the Math Joke?
The three Wise men are asked to solve a problem. The problem is: Enclose the greatest amount of space with the least amount of fence.

Each one used the tools of his or her discipline. The winner was the Mathematician.
The Mathematician built a fence around himself, the judges and the other contestants; Then, declared this area, "Outside."
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

Ptharien's Flame
Posts: 33
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2011 4:23 am UTC

Re: 0821: "Five-Minute Comics: Part 3"

Postby Ptharien's Flame » Fri Jul 15, 2011 5:49 am UTC

See, I always thought of Narnia, Charn, etc., as independently concurrent instances of a runtime-determined class cluster whose base abstract class is the Wood between the Worlds. Since they're all clearly capable of JIT code generation, all you'ld have to do is introduce a basic syncvar type of some sort in a category on the Wood and your problem would be solved.

TortoiseWrath
Posts: 22
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2013 12:28 am UTC

Re: 0821: "Five-Minute Comics: Part 3"

Postby TortoiseWrath » Sun Apr 28, 2013 2:55 am UTC

I'm impressed that a pig managed to be the first to synthesize ununennium, let alone come up with an isotope stable enough from which to build a house.

Lawsome
Posts: 86
Joined: Mon May 07, 2012 7:35 pm UTC

Re: 0821: "Five-Minute Comics: Part 3"

Postby Lawsome » Sun Apr 28, 2013 1:50 pm UTC

TortoiseWrath wrote:I'm impressed that a pig managed to be the first to synthesize ununennium, let alone come up with an isotope stable enough from which to build a house.

Maybe he didn't. And the wolf just comes across a dead pig.
Spoiler:
Image
Quizatzhaderac wrote:
Rosewinsall wrote:DOWN WITH CERTAINTY!

Are you certain of that?

Moose Anus wrote:I let my wife think I'm watching porn in the bathroom late at night, but I'm really playing Dwarf Fortress instead.

User avatar
mojacardave
Posts: 346
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2011 1:01 pm UTC

Re: 0821: "Five-Minute Comics: Part 3"

Postby mojacardave » Mon Apr 29, 2013 10:20 am UTC

Lawsome wrote:
TortoiseWrath wrote:I'm impressed that a pig managed to be the first to synthesize ununennium, let alone come up with an isotope stable enough from which to build a house.

Maybe he didn't. And the wolf just comes across a dead pig.

I think the wolf would come across quite a few dead pigs.

BrianB wrote:And to all those who are *way* over-analyzing the Narnia thing (with the emphasis on "anal") the whole point was 5-minute comics, and I believe actually drawing the comic takes time. Add in some time to come up with a clever idea. Who the f*** cares if it isn't 100% accurate. The idea posed in the Narnia comic is still funny.

Chill! People aren't saying it's not funny, they're just pointing out the shortfalls in the plan and trying to come up with workarounds. That's what geeks do.


Return to “Individual XKCD Comic Threads”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google Feedfetcher and 89 guests