0903: "Extended Mind"

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MathUhhhSaurus
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Re: 0903: "Extended Mind"

Postby MathUhhhSaurus » Wed May 25, 2011 11:37 am UTC

tried out the alt text: first time I got through about 5 articles before getting to philosophy...counting the first but not "Philosophy", my second chain went through 24 articles:D

My second and longest chain today:
Spoiler:
The Black Scorpion (professional wrestling)>Professional wrestling>Spectacle>Middle English>History of the English language>West Germanic languages>Germanic languages>Indo-European languages>Language family>Language>Communication>Meaning (philosophy of language)>Aristotle>Greeks>Nation>Sovereign state>State (polity)>Social sciences>Umbrella term>Subset>Mathematics>Quantity>Property (philosophy)>Modern philosophy>Philosophy

Thought I was done for when I got to "Meaning" but it took me back through geography terms. Knew I was done when I got to "Mathematics" because that was in my first chain.

Now off to work where I shall be doing this some more! :]

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xkcdfan
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Re: 0903: "Extended Mind"

Postby xkcdfan » Wed May 25, 2011 11:41 am UTC

13 clicks from Feynman diagram. :)

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phlip
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Re: 0903: "Extended Mind"

Postby phlip » Wed May 25, 2011 11:44 am UTC

I made a graph from 50 different random pages (picked by Special:Random):
out.png

The starting pages are in green. Disambig pages are dark grey and dashed, redirects are lighter grey and dotted. Nonexistent pages are in red. More popular nodes are bigger.

So of the 50 pages: 46 ended in the Philosophy loop (and of those, 45 entered it via Philosophy, one via Reason), 1 ended in a different loop via "Common law", 2 ended on (the same) redlink, and 1 didn't have any links on it all.

I'm still running the script, to make an even bigger graph. And looking into how to control graphviz more indepth-ly... I'd like to generate a graph with "Philosophy" in the centre, and having it expand outwards, like the xkcd Collatz graph. (If someone knows how to do that, let me know!)

Code: Select all

enum ಠ_ಠ {°□°╰=1, °Д°╰, ಠ益ಠ╰};
void ┻━┻︵​╰(ಠ_ಠ ⚠) {exit((int)⚠);}
[he/him/his]

Bearded
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Re: 0903: "Extended Mind"

Postby Bearded » Wed May 25, 2011 11:46 am UTC

I beat your system!
Certain articles, for example "Soviet Union", end up sending you on a link circle, from "Soviet Union" to "Constitution of the Soviet Union" and back again.
Perhaps this is a piquant metaphor for the futility of playing Wikipedia games when I should be working...

Armitando
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Re: 0903: "Extended Mind"

Postby Armitando » Wed May 25, 2011 11:53 am UTC

Main Page - Wikipedia - Free content - Work of Art - Aesthetics - Philosophy

halestormstopper
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Re: 0903: "Extended Mind"

Postby halestormstopper » Wed May 25, 2011 11:58 am UTC

I did it from University of Toronto Scarborough and to philosophy in 18 clicks.

mania
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Re: 0903: "Extended Mind"

Postby mania » Wed May 25, 2011 12:00 pm UTC

phlip wrote:I made a graph from 50 different random pages (picked by Special:Random):


Impressive. Not sure it makes sense to follow dead links though... don't really consider them links myself. -shrugs-

lalop
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Re: #903: Extended MInd

Postby lalop » Wed May 25, 2011 12:06 pm UTC

Draco18s wrote:
Nicad wrote:I find it interesting that the alt text seems to be more of a focus of discussion than the actual comic. :)


...I have just wasted 20 minutes trying to find a counterexample which is not a loop.


Any counterexample is either a loop or ends in a loop (including the trivial loop, of course), as, otherwise, you would eventually exhaust all the wikipedia pages aside from philosophy. So, depending on what exactly you're looking for, your assignment may be fruitless.
Last edited by lalop on Wed May 25, 2011 12:09 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.

ancientcampus
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Re: #903: Extended MInd

Postby ancientcampus » Wed May 25, 2011 12:08 pm UTC

Draco18s wrote:
Nicad wrote:I find it interesting that the alt text seems to be more of a focus of discussion than the actual comic. :)


...I have just wasted 20 minutes trying to find a counterexample which is not a loop.

This is great!

I tried it twice, it worked for "Anti-Mullerian Hormone" and "List of Naruto: Shippuden episodes (Season 10)". That's enough to satisfy me.

I think it's because most everything drills down to "science" or one of the basic sciences, almost all of those eventually end up at Phillosophy (they don't all drill down to "science", but most will get to social science, natural science, or knowledge)

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phlip
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Re: #903: Extended MInd

Postby phlip » Wed May 25, 2011 12:09 pm UTC

lalop wrote:Any counterexample is either a loop or ends in a loop (including the trivial loop, of course), as, otherwise, you will will eventually exhaust all the wikipedia pages.

Not necessarily, it could also end on a page that doesn't have any outgoing links at all.

Code: Select all

enum ಠ_ಠ {°□°╰=1, °Д°╰, ಠ益ಠ╰};
void ┻━┻︵​╰(ಠ_ಠ ⚠) {exit((int)⚠);}
[he/him/his]

egc52556
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Re: 0903: "Extended Mind"

Postby egc52556 » Wed May 25, 2011 12:12 pm UTC

Of course, XKCD fans can "fix" these infinite loops by editing the articles.

lalop
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Re: #903: Extended MInd

Postby lalop » Wed May 25, 2011 12:15 pm UTC

phlip wrote:
lalop wrote:Any counterexample is either a loop or ends in a loop (including the trivial loop, of course), as, otherwise, you will will eventually exhaust all the wikipedia pages.

Not necessarily, it could also end on a page that doesn't have any outgoing links at all.


That's a trivial loop :D

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phlip
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Re: #903: Extended MInd

Postby phlip » Wed May 25, 2011 12:19 pm UTC

lalop wrote:That's a trivial loop :D

In what way? I figure a trivial loop is when a page's first link is to itself, not that it has no links at all...

Code: Select all

enum ಠ_ಠ {°□°╰=1, °Д°╰, ಠ益ಠ╰};
void ┻━┻︵​╰(ಠ_ಠ ⚠) {exit((int)⚠);}
[he/him/his]

philip1201
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Re: 0903: "Extended Mind"

Postby philip1201 » Wed May 25, 2011 12:19 pm UTC

Myles.ONeill wrote: In conclusion, there is nothing remarkable about this.

An extremely large part of wikipedia articles can be brought back to the "philosophy-reason-rationality" loop.
I'm just going ahead and recap all the loops we've found, and claimed to have found.
Original loops:
- Philosophy - reason - rationality.
- Skeletal striated muscle - striated muscle tissue
- Paleolithic - prehistory - recorded history - history of the world
- Upper Canada - the Canadas
- Frog - amphibians
- Flood barrier - floodgate
- Soviet union - constitution of the soviet union
- Heraldry - Coat of arms (edit)
- Watercraft - Craft (vehicle) - Ship OR Craft (vehicle) - Vehicle, depending on what time the edits started. Either way, they loop now. (edit)
Loops that were edited to break, but have not been reverted:
- Oral history - oral history society
- Puppet - puppeteer
- Thoroughfare - road
- Hypnosis - hypnotherapy
- Watercraft - boat (edit)
Loops edited to form, but reverted:
- mathematics - quantity - property (philosophy)
Loops that were edited to break or form, but didn't change shape as a result (oh yes):
- Computer science
- System (unless the red link to "relational regime" breaks it)
Claimed loops, which were never loops at all:
- Autarky
- Greek (three times)
- Dog
- Aristotle/Indo-european languages
- Art film (edit)
Edit war loops:
- Measurement (edit)
- Quantity, Mathematics, Property (philosophical or void) (edit)
Last edited by philip1201 on Wed May 25, 2011 3:15 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.

Antzy
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Re: 0903: "Extended Mind"

Postby Antzy » Wed May 25, 2011 12:28 pm UTC

not sure if someone has already mentioned this but THE FIRST LINK ON WIKIPEDIA PAGE ON XKCD is PHILOSPHY!
sounds evil. maybe randall was modifying all the wikipedia pages to point to philosphy...

BeagleFury
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Re: 0903: "Extended Mind"

Postby BeagleFury » Wed May 25, 2011 12:28 pm UTC

Very suspicious activity on wiki-edits relating to the examples given in this forum of loops that do not lead to philosophy.. Given the map, almost makes one want to break the link at mathematics, so that, on average, few pages lead to philosophy.

fljared
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Re: 0903: "Extended Mind"

Postby fljared » Wed May 25, 2011 12:34 pm UTC

Rechecked computer software. Now it just takes a longer time, and detours through greece twice

groothewanderer
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Re: 0903: "Extended Mind"

Postby groothewanderer » Wed May 25, 2011 12:35 pm UTC

Random article led me to "Songs and Sonnets atlantean" and I wound up at mathematics. I think my wikipedia is broken :(

Mathematics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
7:24 AM
Subset - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
7:24 AM
Umbrella term - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
7:24 AM
Social sciences - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
7:24 AM
State (polity) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
7:24 AM
Sovereign state - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
7:24 AM
Nation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
7:24 AM
Greeks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
7:24 AM
Aristotle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
7:24 AM
Meaning (philosophy of language) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
7:24 AM
Communication - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
7:23 AM
Language - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
7:23 AM
Language family - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
7:23 AM
Indo-European languages - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
7:23 AM
Italic languages - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
7:23 AM
Latin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
7:23 AM
Narrative - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
7:22 AM
Fiction - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
7:22 AM
Literature - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
7:22 AM
Poetry - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
7:22 AM
Poet - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
7:22 AM
Donald Sidney-Fryer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
7:22 AM
Songs and Sonnets Atlantean - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Richante
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Re: 0903: "Extended Mind"

Postby Richante » Wed May 25, 2011 12:35 pm UTC

This is the longest chain I've found - 25 links:
Third-person_shooter -> Video_game_genre -> Video_game -> Electronic_game -> Game -> Play_(activity) -> Ethology -> Zoology -> Umlaut_(diacritic) -> Diacritic -> Glyph -> Grapheme -> Writing_systems -> Symbolic_system -> Anthropology -> Natural_science -> Science -> Knowledge -> Fact -> Information -> Sequence -> Mathematics -> Quantity -> Property_(philosophy) -> Modern_philosophy -> Philosophy

bidule
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Re: 0903: "Extended Mind"

Postby bidule » Wed May 25, 2011 12:42 pm UTC

phlip wrote:I made a graph from 50 different random pages (picked by Special:Random)

On a large scale, this could be done to highlight similarities/differences with knowledge (or usually library) classification systems such as Dewey Classification.
Last edited by bidule on Wed May 25, 2011 1:43 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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DragonHawk
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Re: 0903: "Extended Mind"

Postby DragonHawk » Wed May 25, 2011 12:46 pm UTC

You guys have way too much free time.

;-)
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Fixblor
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Re: 0903: "Extended Mind"

Postby Fixblor » Wed May 25, 2011 12:53 pm UTC

Concern:
This bunk, hooey, nonsense that seems to be approaching minor-memetic proportions could possibly lead to zealots undoing any attempts to change this biased pattern, and even going so far as to reinforce it on other pages. The concern however is that some deletionist editors will go out of their way to stop said zealots. Either way, its an inevitable fail in an attempt at just another quirky observation.

Stand back, people think this is SCIENCE!
Last edited by Count Modulus on Fri Dec 21, 2012 12:5l am UTC, edited 13 times in total.
06:23, 18 April 2011 SmackBot (talk | contribs) m (90,899 bytes) (Dated {{Dubious}} x 153. (Build p609)) (undo)

orismology
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Re: 0903: "Extended Mind"

Postby orismology » Wed May 25, 2011 12:54 pm UTC

Oh wow... that's cool. I got 27 hops before 'Philosophy', although I got to Aristotle at 16

arotenbe
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Re: 0903: "Extended Mind"

Postby arotenbe » Wed May 25, 2011 12:54 pm UTC

I have to say, "Film" to "Biology" by way of "Mammary gland" is definitely my favorite of the chains we've seen so far. "Alternate versions of Spider-Man" -> "Logic" in 4 steps is pretty amusing, too.

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SirMustapha
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Re: #903: Extended MInd

Postby SirMustapha » Wed May 25, 2011 12:54 pm UTC

Schadenfreude wrote:Damnit, it's pointless edits like this that are bad for wikipedia's credibility. Please stop. Wikipedia is not TV tropes. You're just making random edits so it'll comply with a throwaway joke from a friggin' comic.


That's a phenomenon people with actual lives call "Randallism". It can range from adding a link to xkcd on the article for "Telephone" because the latest strip has a telephone in it, to downright spoiling the article for the sake of stupid jokes that that.

Though the alt-text today isn't a joke, because there's no humour. And it's not a fact, because it's wrong. So what is it? A way to manipulate the mass of xkcd fanboys? A way to distract from the absolutely tired and lame joke in the comic itself?

Eutychus
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Re: 0903: "Extended Mind"

Postby Eutychus » Wed May 25, 2011 12:56 pm UTC

None of this explains why Wikipedia was posting the "temporary outage" message for me quite a lot late last evening (European time), before the comic went up.
Be very careful about rectilinear assumptions. Raptors could be hiding there - ucim

peshmg
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Re: 0903: "Extended Mind"

Postby peshmg » Wed May 25, 2011 12:59 pm UTC

Hit "Random Article" and this was the progression:

Proud Scum
Punk Rock
Rock Music
Popular Music
Music Genre
Genre
Literature
Latin
Italic Languages
Indo-European Languages
Language Family
Language
Communication
Meaning (philosophy of language)
Aristotle
Greeks
Nation
Sovereign State
State (polity)
Social Sciences
Umbrella term
Subset
Mathematics
Quantity
Property (philosophy)
Modern Philosophy
Philosophy

This makes me think of the time I created an Excel sheet to track the progression from any natural number through the 3X+1 problem to eventually arrive at 1, no matter what. Most numbers fell into some standard and often repeated pattern. I'd love to see a tree-structure of Wikipedia in this regard (though, granted, it would be constantly changing).

Also, this doesn't take into account orphan articles.

whytwulf
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Re: 0903: "Extended Mind"

Postby whytwulf » Wed May 25, 2011 1:01 pm UTC

I tested on the front page article. Here's my browser history: http://imgur.com/uFbaK
I thought I was there halfway through, and then something sidetracked me. But I still managed to get there!
Thanks for helping me waste valuable billable time!

dp2
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Re: 0903: "Extended Mind"

Postby dp2 » Wed May 25, 2011 1:05 pm UTC

Myles.ONeill wrote:In conclusion, there is nothing remarkable about this.

You're right, but for the wrong reason. "Philosophy" itself is a dead-end (looping with "Rationality"), and most pages seem to dead-end there.

The real reason it's not special is that most articles will link to a nation very early on, with then leads to that nation's political system, which is inevitably going to lead to philosophy.

Or think of it this way: we generally define something as a specific instance of a broader idea, and philosophy is about as broad as it gets.

sotanaht
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Re: 0903: "Extended Mind"

Postby sotanaht » Wed May 25, 2011 1:06 pm UTC

Someone should loop "Quantity" back to "Mathematics". That would be the most effective single change one could do to change this situation.

Bobsama
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Re: 0903: "Extended Mind"

Postby Bobsama » Wed May 25, 2011 1:06 pm UTC

16 clicks from "List of ATI GPUs".
17 clicks from "Bitcoin".
19 clicks from "Margo Timmins".

Once you hit "Science" it's all over.

What happens if you hit Wiktionary first? Does that mean you win? (Start from "Mutual Fund".)

BTW: 25 clicks from "Mutual fund".

dp2
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Re: 0903: "Extended Mind"

Postby dp2 » Wed May 25, 2011 1:07 pm UTC

sotanaht wrote:Someone should loop "Quantity" back to "Mathematics". That would be the most effective single change one could do to change this situation.

Then the meme would be "They all end at 'Mathematics'! Everything is math!"

They're all going to end up somewhere. Philosophy just won the lottery, mainly because it's a very broad concept.

The alternative would be that most articles have nothing in common, with no crossover at all. That would be much, much stranger.
Last edited by dp2 on Wed May 25, 2011 1:30 pm UTC, edited 2 times in total.

dp2
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Re: 0903: "Extended Mind"

Postby dp2 » Wed May 25, 2011 1:08 pm UTC

By the way, "Weird Al Yankovic" dead-ends at "Organism".

Weird Al Yankovic
Singer-songwriter
Lyricist
Songwriter
Lyrics
Song
Music
Sense ("symbolic" is in parens)
Organism

Rather notable that "sense", "music" and "art" do not end at "philosophy".

Edit: Oops, fooled by whitespace. Organism does not dead-end.
Last edited by dp2 on Wed May 25, 2011 1:28 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.

dp2
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Re: 0903: "Extended Mind"

Postby dp2 » Wed May 25, 2011 1:20 pm UTC

HighFidelity wrote:I found a loop (through "Random Article") that was really close to philosophy and I was surprised that I didn't end up there.
It started out: Underdrawing -> Drawing -> Visual Art -> Art -> Symbol -> Numerical System -> Writing System -> Symbolic System -> Anthropology -> Natural Science -> Science -> Latin Language -> (now the loop):
Indo-European Languages -> Language Family -> Language -> Communication -> Meaning (philosophy of language) -> Aristotle -> Greek Language -> Indo-European Languages

"Symbol" is in parentheses on "Art". Which breaks a whole lot of these.

mania
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Re: 0903: "Extended Mind"

Postby mania » Wed May 25, 2011 1:21 pm UTC

dp2 wrote:By the way, "Weird Al Yankovic" dead-ends at "Organism".


In what way is Organism a dead-end?

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John Romberg
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Re: 0903: "Extended Mind"

Postby John Romberg » Wed May 25, 2011 1:22 pm UTC

from "Novak Djokovic in 2011" in ~20 clicks.

tsk5565
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Re: 0903: "Extended Mind"

Postby tsk5565 » Wed May 25, 2011 1:23 pm UTC

Worked for me!

I started with "cars" and in about twenty clicks I ended up at philosophy


Oh, and as for the comic, the guy probably swapped a couple of plug wires, that's why it's running so bad
Last edited by tsk5565 on Wed May 25, 2011 2:59 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.

dp2
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Re: 0903: "Extended Mind"

Postby dp2 » Wed May 25, 2011 1:24 pm UTC

mania wrote:
dp2 wrote:By the way, "Weird Al Yankovic" dead-ends at "Organism".


In what way is Organism a dead-end?

Oh....my bad, my browser shows a huge amount of whitespace before the article. Thought it was blank. :oops:

shizok
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Re: 0903: "Extended Mind"

Postby shizok » Wed May 25, 2011 1:25 pm UTC

Works from "holiday". The weird thing is that I cycled through the Wikipedia terms of use before getting there and still made it to Aristotle in no time.

ladycygnus
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Re: 0903: "Extended Mind"

Postby ladycygnus » Wed May 25, 2011 1:34 pm UTC

Unless you start at Soviet Union, the first link is constitutionally which links to the Constitution of the Soviet Union, which then links back to the Soviet Union. Once you're in the Soviet Union, you're trapped there.


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